Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]Dez, you can discount the shots all you want (which in doing so makes rask season even worse.) Thomas is having the best season statistically in the history of the modern era. I am not going so say that makes him the greatest all time, but if he continues this play there is no doubt on the vezina, he has a shot at the hart, and will have produced the best season in NHL history.. the fact that he has points in 29 of the 30 games that he has started that the bruins have scored in supports that..  Its being over looked, but if the bruins score 1 goal, he has gotten them to atleast overtime in all but 1 game.. If the bruins gave up less shots, he would indeed give up less goals, if you want to compare goalies across the league, SVS% is where I would start, which was my point at the begining of this.. You keep arguing that with "points" that make no sense.. such as 2 1/2 more goals per 100 shots.. meaning what?
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]
     
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    [QUOTE]Dez, you can discount the shots all you want (which in doing so makes rask season even worse.) Thomas is having the best season statistically in the history of the modern era. I am not going so say that makes him the greatest all time, but if he continues this play there is no doubt on the vezina, he has a shot at the hart, and will have produced the best season in NHL history.. the fact that he has points in 29 of the 30 games that he has started that the bruins have scored in supports that..  Its being over looked, but if the bruins score 1 goal, he has gotten them to atleast overtime in all but 1 game.. If the bruins gave up less shots, he would indeed give up less goals, if you want to compare goalies across the league, SVS% is where I would start, which was my point at the begining of this.. You keep arguing that with "points" that make no sense.. such as 2 1/2 more goals per 100 shots.. meaning what?
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]
    To me this was never about TT vs Rask as much as the overall importance of shots on goal.I'm trying to put some value on save percentage simply to challenge your theory of Boston missing the playoffs if not for TT.I think that's an unfair assumption yet,never did I put down TT or Rask in this debate because it wasn't about that(at least it didn't start that way).I'll go as far as to say Boston will remain in 1st for the rest of the season regardless of how many shots they give up.Bottom line is I'd take 1 good scoring opportunity from a 2on1 over 6 shots from the perimiter any day.Shots on goal is an overrated stat.That's all I was saying.Once again,forgive my stupidity.Go Thomas!whooooo!
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do shots against per game matter? : I get what your saying Roler, and I agree that in your scenario the goalie played better in the 2nd game.  What I am saying is that when a team is behind it tends to throw a lot of low% shots on net, resulting in higher save%s for goalies who play often with the lead, and a lot of shots against for teams that play often with a lead, like the Bruins do. It was said (in the original post) that Thomas faces the most shots per game in the NHL and that the B's had the 3rd highest SA/G stat.  I'm just trying to argue that SA/G doesn't indicate what people think it does, in this case poor play on the B's part.
    Posted by Eric66[/QUOTE]
    I've been trying to say the exact same thing as you.So now we're probably both stupid
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do shots against per game matter? : I get what your saying Roler, and I agree that in your scenario the goalie played better in the 2nd game.  What I am saying is that when a team is behind it tends to throw a lot of low% shots on net, resulting in higher save%s for goalies who play often with the lead, and a lot of shots against for teams that play often with a lead, like the Bruins do. It was said (in the original post) that Thomas faces the most shots per game in the NHL and that the B's had the 3rd highest SA/G stat.  I'm just trying to argue that SA/G doesn't indicate what people think it does, in this case poor play on the B's part.
    Posted by Eric66[/QUOTE]

    I agree - it doesn't necessarily mean poor play on the B's part. In fact, I tried to indicate in the original post that in spite of the fact that TT faces the most shots per game and that the B's had the 3rd highest SA/G in the NHL that I was very happy with their play, as a whole.

    This All Star break should be an opportunity for the coaching staff to identify ways for the team to get better in the last 32 games and into the playoffs. How much better could they be if they, say, work on the element of taking out the shooter before he gets off a shot in certain circumstances? Good team D, great goalkeeping, and fewer shots on per game - that has to yield better results, doesn't it?

    I hope no one believes it's good enough - there's always work to be done.

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do shots against per game matter? : I agree - it doesn't necessarily mean poor play on the B's part. In fact, I tried to indicate in the original post that in spite of the fact that TT faces the most shots per game and that  the B's had the 3rd highest SA/G  in the NHL  that I was very happy with their play, as a whole. This All Star break should be an opportunity for the coaching staff to identify ways for the team to get better in the last 32 games and into the playoffs. How much better could they be if they, say, work on the element of taking out the shooter before he gets off a shot in certain circumstances? Good team D, great goalkeeping, and fewer shots on per game - that has to yield better results, doesn't it? I hope no one believes it's good enough - there's always work to be done.
    Posted by anacanapana[/QUOTE]
    Better would always be better.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    Dez,
    neither of you read that story right, sorry but really look at the story, its not about goalie's seeing lower quality shots when they are ahead, because the other teams take a bunch of bad shots, you are making an extrapulation that isnt there..

    It says goalies playing when down by 2 goals have the lowest svs%, because their team is forced to open it up offensively which exposes them defensively..
    Most teams in the NHL currently play a "capitalize on mistakes" kind of hockey, some teams (like the leafs) trade chances.. If you play the first brand though, and your trailing as the game gets later and later in to the game you are forced to take more chances in an effort to score, you can't wait for the chances to come you have to create them..

    Similarly, the leap eric made stating teams that outshoot their opponent win about 45% of the time is also not true..I think it works out to 45% is the average of teams outshooting their opponents, but those 45% are winning teams which would mean they win a higher % of thier games.

    Simple fact is you want to outshoot your opponents, teams that out shoot their opponents tend to be winning teams..  You throw pucks on net, and good things happen.

    Dez, I also do not agree that if thomas doesnt play as well as he has the bruins are a play off team, the difference in his game and rask this year, 2 1/2 goals per 100 shots, is big, its not huge, but its big, and the diffence can be seen in the results.. Rask has played more then capable and the team is only winning 33% of his starts, there are probably 20 teams that would take Rask in a second (not based on value) but simply as an upgrade over their current goalie, and the bruins can not win in front of him.

    I am not making the arguement that every 30 save game is a great game, keep in mind this post started after thomas made a 34 save shut out against carolina I think.

    but the fact remains on average, svs% is a good marker, there are games when .888 may be a great game in net, and games were a .950 wasnt so good, but its a long season and things will balance out..

    If you had a list of just stats and no names to pick a goalie, I think most would look at svs% first when picking a goalie,  If i see a .940% with a losing record and a 3.3 goals against, you know that kid is facing a ton of shots on a bad team..Rask still has one of the better SVS% in the nhl, an average GAA and a poor record, the best indicator of his play has been svs%.

    Shots on goal are certainly not the entire story, but over the course of a season things balance out..Theres a reason svs% is the first thing listed in a goalies stats..

    Anyhow, that was a book and I rest my case on this cause if your not getting it now, you just don't..
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]Dez, neither of you read that story right, sorry but really look at the story, its not about goalie's seeing lower quality shots when they are ahead, because the other teams take a bunch of bad shots, you are making an extrapulation that isnt there.. It says goalies playing when down by 2 goals have the lowest svs%, because their team is forced to open it up offensively which exposes them defensively.. Most teams in the NHL currently play a "capitalize on mistakes" kind of hockey, some teams (like the leafs) trade chances.. If you play the first brand though, and your trailing as the game gets later and later in to the game you are forced to take more chances in an effort to score, you can't wait for the chances to come you have to create them.. Similarly, the leap eric made stating teams that outshoot their opponent win about 45% of the time is also not true..I think it works out to 45% is the average of teams outshooting their opponents, but those 45% are winning teams which would mean they win a higher % of thier games. Simple fact is you want to outshoot your opponents, teams that out shoot their opponents tend to be winning teams..  You throw pucks on net, and good things happen. Dez, I also do not agree that if thomas doesnt play as well as he has the bruins are a play off team, the difference in his game and rask this year, 2 1/2 goals per 100 shots, is big, its not huge, but its big, and the diffence can be seen in the results.. Rask has played more then capable and the team is only winning 33% of his starts, there are probably 20 teams that would take Rask in a second (not based on value) but simply as an upgrade over their current goalie, and the bruins can not win in front of him. I am not making the arguement that every 30 save game is a great game, keep in mind this post started after thomas made a 34 save shut out against carolina I think. but the fact remains on average, svs% is a good marker, there are games when .888 may be a great game in net, and games were a .950 wasnt so good, but its a long season and things will balance out.. If you had a list of just stats and no names to pick a goalie, I think most would look at svs% first when picking a goalie,  If i see a .940% with a losing record and a 3.3 goals against, you know that kid is facing a ton of shots on a bad team..Rask still has one of the better SVS% in the nhl, an average GAA and a poor record, the best indicator of his play has been svs%. Shots on goal are certainly not the entire story, but over the course of a season things balance out..Theres a reason svs% is the first thing listed in a goalies stats.. Anyhow, that was a book and I rest my case on this cause if your not getting it now, you just don't..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]
    I've no idea(nor do I care)about what story you're talking about.We were having a simple discussion about the value of shots against.I feel one way,you obviously feel another(all TT all the time).You go on talking to yourself on this one as I obviously don't get(or care about)what you're trying to say.Somehow you've now turned this around to sound as if I wasn't saying save percentage was important.I'm tired of talking in circles with you.I'm going to just stick with chatting with the less intelligent folks who I  have more in common with.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    So lets say TT faces only 10 shots in a particular game BUT they are all clean break aways. He makes a phenomenal save on 7 of them and gives up 3 goals.
    The opposing goalie faces 30 shots but only 4 real scoring chances and gives up 2 goals
    TT has a save percentage of .700 and a GAA of 3 (and loses the game)
    Opposing goalie has a save percentage of .933 and a GAA of 2 and a W
    Who had the better game?????
    Sometimes we let stats get in the way of our own eyes and common sense.
     
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    [QUOTE]So lets say TT faces only 10 shots in a particular game BUT they are all clean break aways. He makes a phenomenal save on 7 of them and gives up 3 goals. The opposing goalie faces 30 shots but only 4 real scoring chances and gives up 2 goals TT has a save percentage of .700 and a GAA of 3 (and loses the game) Opposing goalie has a save percentage of .933 and a GAA of 2 and a W Who had the better game????? Sometimes we let stats get in the way of our own eyes and common sense.
    Posted by WalkTheLine[/QUOTE]
    Absolutely right.Scoring opportunities are far more important than shots on goal.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    Dez,
    you should probably read the story if your agreeing with Eric, since that is what he was talking about, and asked my thoughts on it, But way to continue to underacheive..I also never said anything about needing to play thomas all the time, or at all.. usually you can contribute something but your really failing to on this, you are talking about single game examples and i am not..

    Walk the line, your a late entry on this, but if you look at the "things will balance out over the course of a season" and some of the previous post, you'll probably find your statment is more then covered.  Also when has a team ever faced 10 shots with 7 clean break aways.. please read some of the post before throwing out a 2 line statement that adds nothing of value.. Scoring chances have been covered and talked about..

    Also WTL, a goalie stopping 7 of 10 break aways in a loss, and a goalie stopping 27 of 29 in a win, who had a better game is still going to depend on who faced most quality shots right?  I mean paille had a break away against FLA, it registered as a scoring opportunity, he had like 50 last year finished on 2 of them.. they still count..
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    In Response to Do shots against per game matter?:
    [QUOTE]Despite the the constant nitpicking by   many on this board  of individual players' skill sets and their production (because of the intense scrutiny with which many of us watch each and every game), I could not have expected the Bruins team to have played any better to this point. They are:  - 1st in the league in goals allowed per game  - 6th (tied) in goals for per game  - 3rd in goal differential per game (only VAN and PHI are better) One stat disturbs me though - Tim Thomas is facing the MOST shots per game in the NHL and the B's, as a team, are third worst in shots allowed in the NHL. I wouldn't have thought TT would have been anywhere close to the top. Given that the B's allow the fewest goals per game, I would have thought that shots against per game would have reflected a much more "team concept" D, given the commitment to backchecking demanded by CJ and company shift after shift, game in and game out. Do you think this a real worry going forward due to the accumulation of rubber seen? Do elite goaltenders tend thrive with more "in-game" work?
    Posted by anacanapana[/QUOTE]

    Good observation and something the Bruins staff should look into. As stated several times in this discussion, the quality of the scoring opportunity is the first concern BUT the number of shots allowed is not an inconsequential statistic. There maybe some defensive adaptations the Bruins need to make to reduce the overall volume. Somebody mentioned, having the Bruins D ride the forwards down the boards - I concur. When defensemen do that, it relieves some of the pressure on the forwards and allows them to position in the area of attacking forward and their own d' ready to pick up the puck and move it up and out of the zone. One down side of this is, increased wear and tear on your defensemen.






     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]Dez, you should probably read the story if your agreeing with Eric, since that is what he was talking about, and asked my thoughts on it, But way to continue to underacheive..I also never said anything about needing to play thomas all the time, or at all.. usually you can contribute something but your really failing to on this, you are talking about single game examples and i am not.. Walk the line, your a late entry on this, but if you look at the "things will balance out over the course of a season" and some of the previous post, you'll probably find your statment is more then covered.  Also when has a team ever faced 10 shots with 7 clean break aways.. please read some of the post before throwing out a 2 line statement that adds nothing of value.. Scoring chances have been covered and talked about.. Also WTL, a goalie stopping 7 of 10 break aways in a loss, and a goalie stopping 27 of 29 in a win, who had a better game is still going to depend on who faced most quality shots right?  I mean paille had a break away against FLA, it registered as a scoring opportunity, he had like 50 last year finished on 2 of them.. they still count..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]
    What am I even trying to achieve?Others here were discussing the value of shots on goal and you've managed to create an argument(about what I'm still not sure)with multiple posters on multiple subjects.Way to go off on multiple tangents about what was a simple subject.Thanks for offering up another opinion about me having let you down.If only I,or anyone else,cared what you thought.Wouldn't that be great?Good luck with that.Once again,I'm going back to indulge in some harmless hockey chat where an opinion is just that as opposed to your cue to argue over nothing and everything.Yeah Timmy Thomas.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]Dez, you should probably read the story if your agreeing with Eric, since that is what he was talking about, and asked my thoughts on it, But way to continue to underacheive..I also never said anything about needing to play thomas all the time, or at all.. usually you can contribute something but your really failing to on this, you are talking about single game examples and i am not.. Walk the line, your a late entry on this, but if you look at the "things will balance out over the course of a season" and some of the previous post, you'll probably find your statment is more then covered.  Also when has a team ever faced 10 shots with 7 clean break aways.. please read some of the post before throwing out a 2 line statement that adds nothing of value.. Scoring chances have been covered and talked about.. Also WTL, a goalie stopping 7 of 10 break aways in a loss, and a goalie stopping 27 of 29 in a win, who had a better game is still going to depend on who faced most quality shots right?  I mean paille had a break away against FLA, it registered as a scoring opportunity, he had like 50 last year finished on 2 of them.. they still count..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]
    If I agree with someone,I don't need to read further in order to strengthen my argument in my own mind.I already agree but thanks for telling me how to think for myself.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]Dez, you should probably read the story if your agreeing with Eric, since that is what he was talking about, and asked my thoughts on it, But way to continue to underacheive..I also never said anything about needing to play thomas all the time, or at all.. usually you can contribute something but your really failing to on this, you are talking about single game examples and i am not.. Walk the line, your a late entry on this, but if you look at the "things will balance out over the course of a season" and some of the previous post, you'll probably find your statment is more then covered.  Also when has a team ever faced 10 shots with 7 clean break aways.. please read some of the post before throwing out a 2 line statement that adds nothing of value.. Scoring chances have been covered and talked about.. Also WTL, a goalie stopping 7 of 10 break aways in a loss, and a goalie stopping 27 of 29 in a win, who had a better game is still going to depend on who faced most quality shots right?  I mean paille had a break away against FLA, it registered as a scoring opportunity, he had like 50 last year finished on 2 of them.. they still count..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]


    roler, I read the entire thread. I was simply trying to use a purposely absurd example to add some clarity to something you seem determined to obfuscate beyond all recognition of sensible logic. 

    The fact that I stated in my example that TT made a "phenomenal save" on the 7 shots he stopped made it obvious that they were quality scoring chances. Was that too difficult for you to figure out? 

    By the way, at least one other poster found my statement of value and I posted earlier in the thread as well.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do shots against per game matter? : roler, I read the entire thread. I was simply trying to use a purposely absurd example to add some clarity to something you seem determined to obfuscate beyond all recognition of sensible logic.  The fact that I stated in my example that TT made a "phenomenal save" on the 7 shots he stopped made it obvious that they were quality scoring chances. Was that too difficult for you to figure out?  By the way, at least one other poster found my statement of value and I posted earlier in the thread as well.
    Posted by WalkTheLine[/QUOTE]
    Thank you.I thought it was just me that was getting confused as the subject got jumbled.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    WTL,
    in your example you state nothing about the 30 shots the other goalie faced is my point..so thomas faces 10 scoring chances, how about the guy facing 30??

    I mentioned earlier things balance out, over the course of a season shots will generally reflect scoring chances, if your giving up a lot of shot consistantly your giving up scoring chances.Scoring chances came up, WTL you should have seen that if you read the post..  Scoring chances in the florida game favored florida, i was at the game, i fully believed that.. 


    Dez, how can you agree with him if you don't know what he is talking about?  no arguement with eric, a response, And if you support Orr's theory that scoring chances were biased cause the scorer wants to make thomas look better on paper i guess go ahead..

    That said, I didnt go on multiple tangents, do shots on goal matter yes, is that the only thing no, did i ever say they were? no.. 
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

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    [QUOTE]WTL, in your example you state nothing about the 30 shots the other goalie faced is my point..so thomas faces 10 scoring chances, how about the guy facing 30?? I mentioned earlier things balance out, over the course of a season shots will generally reflect scoring chances, if your giving up a lot of shot consistantly your giving up scoring chances.Scoring chances came up, WTL you should have seen that if you read the post..  Scoring chances in the florida game favored florida, i was at the game, i fully believed that..  Dez, how can you agree with him if you don't know what he is talking about?  no arguement with eric, a response, And if you support Orr's theory that scoring chances were biased cause the scorer wants to make thomas look better on paper i guess go ahead.. That said, I didnt go on multiple tangents, do shots on goal matter yes, is that the only thing no, did i ever say they were? no.. 
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    roler - Stop telling me to read the post when you clearly aren't taking your own advice. I said in my post of the 30 shots the opposing goalie faced only 4 were quality scoring chances.
    I never commented on the Florida game. I was addressing the larger point of the original post regarding wether shots on goal matter.
    Dez does understand what I am saying but you must have smoked your breakfast today.
    You should just stop posting on this thread because you are just making yourself look more an more like an idiot and you usually do a much better job than that on this board.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    WTL- your right i missed the 4 quality chances.. Its hard to imagine such a situation but I would guess the goalie in the loss played better.  but do shots on goal matter, your still talking a single game, in the course of a season you would think winning hockey is giving up 40 per game? shots on goal do translate to scoring chances, its not direct but its there.  Teams who shoot more do typically win more..

    The florida game came up in early post, which is why i am citing that, orr thinks the scoring chances for the game were cooked, the bruins were outshot in the 3rd 16-9 scoring chances 7-3..  Look back to those post and tell me I am not acknowleding the importance of scring chances..

    if your giving up a lot of shots, your typically giving up a lot of scoring chances, if you say you only give up 4 in a 30 shot game (which would be extremely rare like you said) you can still assume some where down the road your going to give up 13 on 23 shots..

    as far as being everywhere, the topic has changed, I responded to a question from eric, to which he replied, and Dez supported (having not read the article).  Which would indeed make it hard for Dez to follow the conversation I would think, as well as making it look like i am everywhere since he has no idea about the theme of the article. 
     
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    [QUOTE]WTL- your right i missed the 4 quality chances.. Its hard to imagine such a situation but I would guess the goalie in the loss played better.  but do shots on goal matter, your still talking a single game, in the course of a season you would think winning hockey is giving up 40 per game? shots on goal do translate to scoring chances, its not direct but its there.  Teams who shoot more do typically win more.. The florida game came up in early post, which is why i am citing that, orr thinks the scoring chances for the game were cooked, the bruins were outshot in the 3rd 16-9 scoring chances 7-3..  Look back to those post and tell me I am not acknowleding the importance of scring chances.. if your giving up a lot of shots, your typically giving up a lot of scoring chances, if you say you only give up 4 in a 30 shot game (which would be extremely rare like you said) you can still assume some where down the road your going to give up 13 on 23 shots.. as far as being everywhere, the topic has changed, I responded to a question from eric, to which he replied, and Dez supported (having not read the article).  Which would indeed make it hard for Dez to follow the conversation I would think, as well as making it look like i am everywhere since he has no idea about the theme of the article. 
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    I understand your point. Below is my original post from waaaay back in this thread.

    I know this is simplifying the answer whereas some of you (and me at times) like to complicate matters.
    The pure number of shots does matter as out of them a percentage of them will be "scoring chances" and some will find the back of the net. If your goalie has an off moment or your D blows it, even an outside shot (not a true scoring chance) could result in a goal.
    The Bruins have chosen to allow shots and limit scoring chances. When they are on their game it works well.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    In Response to Re: Do shots against per game matter?:
    [QUOTE]I didnt read that a team that is behind takes a lot of low% shots, and in turn teams that are leading have a higer saves percentage. I read that as teams that are behind take more chances (toronto lives and dies by trading chances).. [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I see that as slightly different ways of describing the same thing.  Team behind opens up, resulting in higher sv% for opposing goalie, and lower sv% for own goalie.  Basically the same thing right?

    [QUOTE]But my general statement in all of this, has been that svs% is typically the most honest stat.. its a direct relation of svs vs shots.. [/QUOTE]

    I would agree its the most honest, but still not accurate enough to look at without context.  Take 2 goalies with identical games played and sv% stats, goalie A plays for a good team that is usually ahead, goalie B plays for a bad team that is usually behind.  This would indicate to me that goalie B is the better goalie, since he faces more high% shots because his team opens up more (being behind more).  Would you agree?

    [QUOTE]GAA is a factor of goals over time, not really a judge of a goalies play..[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, to me GAA is a Team defense stat, the goalie should get as much credit for it as he is responsibe for the defense.

    [QUOTE]but if your surrendering the most shots in the league, and your goalie has the highest SVS% of all time, are you really that good defensively [/QUOTE]

    Well that's the argument here, and with the evidence from the article - playing with the lead leading to higher sv% - and with my own observation of the Bruins allowing lots of low% shots, then yes, I do believe the Bruins are good defensively, very good actually.
     
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    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    In Response to Re: Do shots against per game matter?:
    [QUOTE] Similarly, the leap eric made stating teams that outshoot their opponent win about 45% of the time is also not true..I think it works out to 45% is the average of teams outshooting their opponents, but those 45% are winning teams which would mean they win a higher % of thier games. [/QUOTE]
    Roler,
    Sort the 2nd and 3rd to last columns in this chart.  They are winning%s when teams outshoot or are outshot by their opponents.  see how the win%s are clearly higher when teams outshoot their opponents.

    [QUOTE]Simple fact is you want to outshoot your opponents, teams that out shoot their opponents tend to be winning teams..  [/QUOTE]
    Certainly true, in general.  without factoring in how often a team is ahead/behind a better team should consistently outshoot a poorer team, as you can see if you sort the teams by points, then look at the differences in SF/G & SA/G in good teams as compared to poor teams.

    Look at each team individually, most teams have better win%s when they are outshot as opposed to outshooting their opponent.  Some are far more successful when they are outshot.  On the other hand, only a few teams are more successful when they outshoot an opponent, and not by a lot in most cases.

    I think this is because of the "open up when behind" strategy we've been discussing, and that's why I think that SA/G don't really matter, particularly in the B's case.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Do shots against per game matter?

    eric
    I didnt read that a team that is behind takes a lot of low% shots, and in turn teams that are leading have a higer saves percentage. I read that as teams that are behind take more chances (toronto lives and dies by trading chances)..


    Yeah, I see that as slightly different ways of describing the same thing.  Team behind opens up, resulting in higher sv% for opposing goalie, and lower sv% for own goalie.  Basically the same thing right?



    Those are not the same thing at all.. The team trailing is playing more wide open, exsposes their goalie to more high quality shots, thus his saves % goes down..
    That is not the same as saying they are taking more low percentage shots..
    Case in point florida in the 3rd wednesday night was desperate, took more shots, and had more scoring chances (7-3) then the bruins, the result as well though in playing that style is you leave your goalie vounerable (why the svs% drops when trailing)..

    as far as this

    Roler,
    www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20112ALLAAAAll&sort=winPctOutshootOpponent&viewName=summary">Sort the 2nd and 3rd to last columns in this chart.  They are winning%s when teams outshoot or are outshot by their opponents.  see how the win%s are clearly higher when teams outshoot their opponents.


    The top 12 teams typically average more shots then there opponents, there are more  play off teams on that list then at the bottom.. We are in agreement here, but you made a statement that the team that is out shot wins 45% of the time, and I dont think you can make that leap with out putting more into it..

    NYI wins 45% of there games when being out shot, and 0% when they out shoot a team.. that doesnt say they are taking higher quality shots when they are shooting more..
     
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