Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    Gary Bettman was recently asked if the league could survive yet another partial or complete loss of a season due to a labor rift. He was quoted as saying he has no doubt they will because " we have greatest fans in all of sports ". Is he just assuming that all fans will come running back with bells on with the snap of a finger if & when the two sides can get on the same page ? While I'm sure he meant well with those comments about NHL fans being the best in all sports, could there be some that look at it in a different perspective and think he is being arrogant assuming all fans will come running back with open arms ? It kind of sounds like he is putting the onus on the fans to repair any damage that will be done in the event of a work stoppage.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from matttt87. Show matttt87's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    You can take almost anything and twist it to 'mean' whatever you want. My interpretation would be that he knows how loyal and passionate hockey fans are, and that all of the real fans will come back whether or not there is a lockout. Speaking for myself, I know that if the season is cancelled I will be upset, and maybe bitter about not getting a resolution figured out - but you bet your marbles I'll be back just the same whenever hockey returns.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TommyD603. Show TommyD603's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    Gary Bettman is an employee of the owners. If the owners say "If we don't get 'X' then lockout," then that's what he says/does, and he collects his paycheck. He doesn't have customers (fans). If you want to make the argument fans are being taken for granted, that is totally fine and understandable, but that would be the owners themselves. They're the ones with businesses they are shutting down because they don't want to pay employees what they'd make on the open market, and they bet (correctly) that we'll come back whenever they make their product available again.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    Yes. Yes, he does.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    Gary Bettman is an employee of the owners. If the owners say "If we don't get 'X' then lockout," then that's what he says/does, and he collects his paycheck. He doesn't have customers (fans). If you want to make the argument fans are being taken for granted, that is totally fine and understandable, but that would be the owners themselves. They're the ones with businesses they are shutting down because they don't want to pay employees what they'd make on the open market, and they bet (correctly) that we'll come back whenever they make their product available again. Posted by TommyD603


                                               ^All of this!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    Gary Bettman was recently asked if the league could survive yet another partial or complete loss of a season due to a labor rift. He was quoted as saying he has no doubt they will because " we have greatest fans in all of sports ". Is he just assuming that all fans will come running back with bells on with the snap of a finger if & when the two sides can get on the same page ? While I'm sure he meant well with those comments about NHL fans being the best in all sports, could there be some that look at it in a different perspective and think he is being arrogant assuming all fans will come running back with open arms ? It kind of sounds like he is putting the onus on the fans to repair any damage that will be done in the event of a work stoppage.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan


    If they don't play until January, or October 2013, will you watch the first B's game?

    I know I will.

    He's right, and it's okay.  It's not real life.  It's sports.  It's not like there is anything better than hockey.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    What fans that don't go back to watching hockey will eventually be replaced by new fans. 

    A revolving door for the ones who aren't hard core about hockey, just like any other sport.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    In Response to Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted : If they don't play until January, or October 2013, will you watch the first B's game? I know I will. He's right, and it's okay.  It's not real life.  It's sports.  It's not like there is anything better than hockey.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I will absolutely watch the B's games whenever they start. I will obviously be upset & bitter but I will be there. I was just wondering if fans that feel taken for granted might start canceling seasons tickets or just stop going to the games if and when they start. If Bettman & the owners start to see games played in front of half capacity crowds league wide, maybe they change their tune on how they view the fans. Essentially, the fans are the ones that pay the owners bills.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted


    I got curious about Bettman and found this excellent documentary that follows him through a typical day.  I didn't quite realize how busy and how professional he was.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    Fans will turn out regardless.  Each player on the Bruins could come out and declare that the city of Boston sucks.  Bettman could come out and say that Boston smells like a monkey's asssss.   It doesn't matter as the fans will still pay a lot of money to watch hockey even if it loses a the few casual fans that exist.   

    The NHL is a monopoly and there is only 1 product in North America that puts out high quality hockey.  There is nothing a fan can leverage against the NHL unlike a phone company---If Verizon piszed you off, then you could choose AT&T.  

     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    If theres a lock out I won't be back only because I will never have left. I just don't want to wait any longer than I have to for the season to start.

    I'll tell you what i won't do and that is watch 1 second of an NBA game.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    Fans will turn out regardless.  Each player on the Bruins could come out and declare that the city of Boston sucks.  Bettman could come out and say that Boston smells like a monkey's asssss.   It doesn't matter as the fans will still pay a lot of money to watch hockey even if it loses a the few casual fans that exist.    The NHL is a monopoly and there is only 1 product in North America that puts out high quality hockey.  There is nothing a fan can leverage against the NHL unlike a phone company---If Verizon piszed you off, then you could choose AT&T.    
    Posted by lucdufour


    If that happened, I'd be heat to toe in Leafs gear until more than half of them were traded.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

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    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted : If that happened, I'd be heat to toe in Leafs gear until more than half of them were traded.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    You're dead to me.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    They're the ones with businesses they are shutting down because they don't want to pay employees what they'd make on the open market" Posted by TommyD603


    What open market are we talking about?  The hermetically sealed one that only exists within the NHL?  No one has ever been able to compete with the NHL.  The WHA took it's shot.  It failed.  That will never happen again.  The market for these players only exists because the NHL creates it.  If they decide the terms of the CBA make it less than worthwhile to continue to create that market, they shut that sh-- down by ending their demand for players services.  If there was another "market", the players would just move to the other league; in the last lockout some did.  They went to Europe.  Many more stayed home.  Many many more.  Because there is no market without the league. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    [They're the ones with businesses they are shutting down because they don't want to pay employees what they'd make on the open market" Posted by TommyD603.]
    "If there was another "market", the players would just move to the other league; in the last lockout some did.  They went to Europe.  Many more stayed home"

    Book- I think what Tommy was referring to is the owners attempting to gain two more years of EL contracts and UFA moving out to age 31. Controlling how many years NHL vets can be on the "NHL open market".

    Not as wide open a market as your definition but Chudinov, Alexandrov and the ever evasive Yetiberg certainly took advantage...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    Fans will turn out regardless.  Each player on the Bruins could come out and declare that the city of Boston sucks.  Bettman could come out and say that Boston smells like a monkey's asssss.   It doesn't matter as the fans will still pay a lot of money to watch hockey even if it loses a the few casual fans that exist.    The NHL is a monopoly and there is only 1 product in North America that puts out high quality hockey.  There is nothing a fan can leverage against the NHL unlike a phone company---If Verizon piszed you off, then you could choose AT&T.    
    Posted by lucdufour


    See, I think there are a lot of alternatives to be chosen by disgruntled fans, it just depends how disgruntled they are.  The NHL is sort of a monopoly, but it isn't the only place to see good hockey.  I love hockey and spend plenty of money on it, but my entertainment dollars have been split for years between college hockey and pro hockey.  If the NHL cancels the season, I will spend more money seeing college hockey.  I'll probably be back next year if the NHL returns, but I don't think I am in quite as helpless a situation as you describe.  I already own season tickets to Denver U. hockey, so I'm not exactly desperate for the NHL to carry on as usual.  I'll get by either way, and they'll lose my money.

    And if the players on the local team all came out and insulted the city that they represent, I suspect the fans would leave in droves.  I know I would.

    So I agree that the NHL controls it all, and the fans are a rather powerless stakeholder, but fans do indeed have other options and instead of getting bitter about what is happening, they should exercise their free will.  The Boston area is bursting at the seams with good hockey -- check out the scores of NCAA and AHL teams in the area and keep your dignity as a fan.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    Hey Dez - will you get out to see more SeaDogs games if there's an NHL lockout? No doubt I will if it lasts...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    I hear ya Fletcher.  I like the P-Bruins as well as college hockey (being a former has-been myself). Heck, there are even some great high school games to go see.  However, deep down, I know it is not the world's best---so while it could certainly pass the time, it will not replace the ultimate product.  It's hard for me to go to other hockey as a replacement---maybe season tix to BC would change me.  If I didn't know any better, this would be an easier decision for me.

    "And if the players on the local team all came out and insulted the city that they represent, I suspect the fans would leave in droves.  I know I would."  My roundabout point was that Buttman is not trying to rush things along because of the feelings of the fans, nor do I think it (the passion of the fans) is used as a leverage tool.  I wish it were BUT these guys have shown in the past CBAs that they will shut things down and cancel entire seasons with no regard to the loyal fanbases.   

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    Hey Dez - will you get out to see more SeaDogs games if there's an NHL lockout? No doubt I will if it lasts...
    Posted by Davinator

    Yeah, I was dissappointed with myself for not going enough last year. I think I'll get Sea Dogs season tickets regardless of what happens with the NHL.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    [They're the ones with businesses they are shutting down because they don't want to pay employees what they'd make on the open market" Posted by TommyD603.] "If there was another "market", the players would just move to the other league; in the last lockout some did.  They went to Europe.  Many more stayed home" Book- I think what Tommy was referring to is the owners attempting to gain two more years of EL contracts and UFA moving out to age 31. Controlling how many years NHL vets can be on the "NHL open market". Not as wide open a market as your definition but Chudinov, Alexandrov and the ever evasive Yetiberg certainly took advantage...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Yeah, I know.  My point was that the "NHL open market" is a construct of the league first and then refined by the CBA.  If the business owners - the franchises - don't first agree that they will compete on ice and off within certain strictures, then the opinion of the players never comes to the plate.  If there are enough franchises saying that the current market conditions don't work for them, or even just don't make them enough money for the size of their investments, then there's no NHL market.

    I have no doubt Alexandrov would be making more money in the NHL if had proven good enough - he at least tried.  I can't say for sure, but I would also suspect Yetiberg would make more as a 2nd or 3rd liner in the NHL than he does in Sweden, and ditto Chudinov as a 3rd pairing NHLer.  But in the end, none of those guys spurned the NHL for a better market offer.  They weren't given NHL offers.  They all have avoided AHL salaries.  Radulov is one of the few - maybe the only - example of the KHL entering into a competitive market.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    I hear ya Fletcher.  I like the P-Bruins as well as college hockey (being a former has-been myself). Heck, there are even some great high school games to go see.  However, deep down, I know it is not the world's best---so while it could certainly pass the time, it will not replace the ultimate product.  It's hard for me to go to other hockey as a replacement---maybe season tix to BC would change me.  If I didn't know any better, this would be an easier decision for me. "And if the players on the local team all came out and insulted the city that they represent, I suspect the fans would leave in droves.  I know I would."  My roundabout point was that Buttman is not trying to rush things along because of the feelings of the fans, nor do I think it (the passion of the fans) is used as a leverage tool.  I wish it were BUT these guys have shown in the past CBAs that they will shut things down and cancel entire seasons with no regard to the loyal fanbases.   
    Posted by lucdufour

    All understood luc.  I sit pretty much on the glass at DU games, which I think just about cancels out the talent gap between pro and college hockey.  Meaning, the speed and skill of college hockey from 10 feet away matches the speed and skill of pro hockey from 60 feet away.  Or something like that.

    When I lived in Boston I went to a lot of Northeastern games.  There are always tickets available, even last-minute, and they were pretty cheap.  Easy access with the T stop across the street, a great rink, and high level Hockey East skill.

    I refuse to get drawn in and bitter about millionaires fighting over money and will try my best to just shrug my shoulders and find something else to do.  I'm actually saving a lot of money...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted

    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted:
    In Response to Re: Does Gary Bettman Take The Fans For Granted : See, I think there are a lot of alternatives to be chosen by disgruntled fans, it just depends how disgruntled they are.  The NHL is sort of a monopoly, but it isn't the only place to see good hockey.  I love hockey and spend plenty of money on it, but my entertainment dollars have been split for years between college hockey and pro hockey.  If the NHL cancels the season, I will spend more money seeing college hockey.  I'll probably be back next year if the NHL returns, but I don't think I am in quite as helpless a situation as you describe.  I already own season tickets to Denver U. hockey, so I'm not exactly desperate for the NHL to carry on as usual.  I'll get by either way, and they'll lose my money. And if the players on the local team all came out and insulted the city that they represent, I suspect the fans would leave in droves.  I know I would. So I agree that the NHL controls it all, and the fans are a rather powerless stakeholder, but fans do indeed have other options and instead of getting bitter about what is happening, they should exercise their free will.  The Boston area is bursting at the seams with good hockey -- check out the scores of NCAA and AHL teams in the area and keep your dignity as a fan.
    Posted by Fletcher1


    Have to agree Fletch, there are a lot of other options for hockey out there. No they're not at the same level as the NHL, but they can be entertaining enough if you appreciate them for what they are, and I'm fine with giving them my entertainment dollars. Sure I'll come back to the NHL, but if I end up getting hooked on the Vancouver Giants, Abbottsford Heat or our new NCAA teams out here, that will be some of my money that the NHL doesn't get when they return.

    Those of you in New England particularly don't have to miss hockey, if you're willing to go to other levels. Talk about a stacked secondary hockey market - BC, BU, Northeastern, Harvard, Boston Blades, baby B's, Springfield Falcons, Worcester Sharks, Portland Pirates, Manchester Monarchs, Sound Tigers, Conn. Whale. You've got 5 decent choices just inside Boston itself. Must be great to live in that deep of a hockey market (and I'm likely missing some others). If this is an extended lockout I figure all of those teams will be smiling.
     
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