Dougie Hamilton

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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I also believe people should allow a player to play in the NHL before think that, because of their size, draft position and ability to score on 17 year old goaltenders, the player will be the next great Boston defenseman.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    But that's only a part of the reason I think he will be the next great Boston defenseman.

    He skates really well for a big guy.  Really well, size plus mobility take you places.  He has outstanding vision.  You can see that he can multi-task out there, it's a small example, yes, but that he can throw a poke check without taking his eyes off the guy and then hit and/or make the next play seamlessly.  He's dedicated, only he and Koko continued to work out after practice.  He stood out at camp and made much more of an impression on me than Knight or Spooner.

    And his stats, I really like to see numbers go up.  His numbers have skyrocketed throughout his junior career.  It's another huge plus.

    And what's your point?  That no one should predict how someone's career will go?  What's wrong with that?  Is Dougie Hamilton feeling a lot of pressure to live up to my expectations?  Is he feeling less pressure because you're saying not to make predictions?  Are you saying that I am being unrealistic?  


     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : But that's only a part of the reason I think he will be the next great Boston defenseman. He skates really well for a big guy.  Really well, size plus mobility take you places.  He has outstanding vision.  You can see that he can multi-task out there, it's a small example, yes, but that he can throw a poke check without taking his eyes off the guy and then hit and/or make the next play seamlessly.  He's dedicated, only he and Koko continued to work out after practice.  He stood out at camp and made much more of an impression on me than Knight or Spooner. And his stats, I really like to see numbers go up.  His numbers have skyrocketed throughout his junior career.  It's another huge plus. And what's your point?  That no one should predict how someone's career will go?  What's wrong with that?  Is Dougie Hamilton feeling a lot of pressure to live up to my expectations?  Is he feeling less pressure because you're saying not to make predictions?  Are you saying that I am being unrealistic?  
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    While it is true that he has yet to play a single NHL game it is not diffcult to be excited about Hamilton as a B's fan. He has both the size and skill to do well, something that has not been seen in junior in a long time. Usually prospects have one or the other but rarely both. I can't wait for this kid to show what he can do at the NHL level.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : He was a fifth round, 130th overall selection.  It's total guesswork at that point.  What did you expect? 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    I expect them to make better guesses than they have.  It is people's job to do this sort of thing if I understand the "scouting" thing.  Look further down in that draft, look at Jordan Knackstedt.  Look at his numbers and it's pretty plain to see he was a better gamble than Reul.  And look at everyone after Reul and I see better reason to pick most of them on stats alone.,

    n Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton :  I know you've done a great job predicting that highly drafted players will be NHLers.  You deserve a big pat on the back for the Seguin call.  No one could have predicted he'd be any good.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    No.  You're not even paying attention to what I've said.  Predicting 7th rounder Carl Gunnarson would play more games than almost everyone up to that 8th pick of Zach Hamill - that deserves a pat on the back plus a medal.

    Huge talent is easy to spot.  Huge lack of talent is easy to spot.  And I don't have a problem saying so, and I don't have a problem with others saying the same provided they have some credible evidence on stats OR witnessing them playing.

    And Chowda, I agree with you.
    Stats and boxscores aren't everytyhing, but they do mean something and they can be interpreted.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : But that's only a part of the reason I think he will be the next great Boston defenseman. He skates really well for a big guy.  Really well, size plus mobility take you places.  He has outstanding vision.  You can see that he can multi-task out there, it's a small example, yes, but that he can throw a poke check without taking his eyes off the guy and then hit and/or make the next play seamlessly.  He's dedicated, only he and Koko continued to work out after practice.  He stood out at camp and made much more of an impression on me than Knight or Spooner. And his stats, I really like to see numbers go up.  His numbers have skyrocketed throughout his junior career.  It's another huge plus. And what's your point?  That no one should predict how someone's career will go?  What's wrong with that?  Is Dougie Hamilton feeling a lot of pressure to live up to my expectations?  Is he feeling less pressure because you're saying not to make predictions?  Are you saying that I am being unrealistic?  
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    And why wouldn't he ? He was a 1st round pick while Spooner and Knight were 2nd rounders. He better have made more of an impression on you.

    And the stats that went up have an answer behind that . Has he improved ? Yes. But if you had the insight to look at what type of teams he's played on starting from his rookie season till now you'll see that he's gone from a bottom feeding team to a team that has a chance to win an OHL championship. They are deep with players that have already been picked in the NHL draft.

    They also had the #1 PP in the OHL. Another reason for the #'s going up.

    What would have happened to those numbers if his team would've stayed a bottom feeding team as in his first year in the league ? Team performances can reflect individual numbers too.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : And why wouldn't he ? He was a 1st round pick while Spooner and Knight were 2nd rounders. He better have made more of an impression on you. And the stats that went up have an answer behind that . Has he improved ? Yes. But if you had the insight to look at what type of teams he's played on starting from his rookie season till now you'll see that he's gone from a bottom feeding team to a team that has a chance to win an OHL championship. They are deep with players that have already been picked in the NHL draft. They also had the #1 PP in the OHL. Another reason for the #'s going up. What would have happened to those numbers if his team would've stayed a bottom feeding team as in his first year in the league ? Team performances can reflect individual numbers too.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Spooner was projected to go in the First Round for most of that year until he got sick/injured (I can't remember which one). Just sayin'.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I expect them to make better guesses than they have.  It is people's job to do this sort of thing if I understand the "scouting" thing.  Look further down in that draft, look at Jordan Knackstedt.  Look at his numbers and it's pretty plain to see he was a better gamble than Reul.  And look at everyone after Reul and I see better reason to pick most of them on stats alone., n Response to  Re: Dougie Hamilton : No.  You're not even paying attention to what I've said.  Predicting 7th rounder Carl Gunnarson would play more games than almost everyone up to that 8th pick of Zach Hamill - that deserves a pat on the back plus a medal. Huge talent is easy to spot.  Huge lack of talent is easy to spot.  And I don't have a problem saying so, and I don't have a problem with others saying the same provided they have some credible evidence on stats OR witnessing them playing. And Chowda, I agree with you. Stats and boxscores aren't everytyhing, but they do mean something and they can be interpreted.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    I never suggested that stats and box scores don't mean anything. I said that they don't mean everything.

    Just for fun interpret these stats for me please. What kind of chance does this undrafted/drafted prospect have without seeing him ?

    66 games16 goals17 assists33 points-8 plus minus135 pims    
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : Spooner was projected to go in the First Round for most of that year until he got sick/injured (I can't remember which one). Just sayin'.
    Posted by jaywall[/QUOTE]

    Ya it was the same draft year that Kirill Kabanov started out as a top 10 projected pick . Then he started to play/not play worth a crap. Gotta love projections. Just sayin' also.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I never suggested that stats and box scores don't mean anything. I said that they don't mean everything. Just for fun interpret these stats for me please. What kind of chance does this undrafted/drafted prospect have without seeing him ? 66 games 16 goals 17 assists 33 points -8 plus minus 135 pims        
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    He's a minus 8!  He stinks!
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : Ya it was the same draft year that Kirill Kabanov started out as a top 10 projected pick . Then he started to play/not play worth a crap. Gotta love projections. Just sayin' also.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Very good point......LOL!!

    I remember there were many on these boards screaming for PC to get him in the second round that year. Thank god.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I never suggested that stats and box scores don't mean anything. I said that they don't mean everything. Just for fun interpret these stats for me please. What kind of chance does this undrafted/drafted prospect have without seeing him ? 66 games 16 goals 17 assists 33 points -8 plus minus 135 pims        
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    From that I could say absolutely nothing.  I would need to see his previous years or following years stats and the stats of his team mates.

    Kiril Kabanov was a lie, they said he was something in the neighborhood of 200 lbs.  When I saw him at the rookie games I was stunned by how thin he was.  I danger of falling through the sewer grates thin.  He was 170 at the very utmost possible and it wouldn't have surprised me if he weighed 155.

     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : And sometimes that's all people base their evaluations on. The more points ( or Badhab's higher draft ranking ) in junior or college the better the player is as a prospect. Total BS and doesn't necessarily translate into a better NHL player when compared to the one with less points or higher ranking. There have been many scoring stars in junior ( a perfect example is #52 of the Bruins although I didn't see his junior career) that fall by the wayside as they get into better leagues.   Don't only go by a boxscore and stat sheet when a person is doing their evaluating. It doesn't tell the whole story about the prospect.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]


    #52 ?  He had my classic alarm bell stats - DECLINING numbers in his last year of junior.  Then look deeper at his team mates in that year, Dan Gendur and Kyle Beach - both of whom were outproducing him in that season at one point.  And then he ends up second on the team in pts.  And Gendur ended up outproducing him even though he played 7 less games.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : Man...that Denis Reul pick really irks you to still be whining about it nearly 5 years later. The kid ended up playing 2 years in the Q and still plays professionally today for the Mannheim Eagles in Germany. Along the way, he also played for his country @ U-17, U-18 (2), U-20. The B's burned a 5th round pick (130th overall) on the guy, it didn't work out.  Big deal.  You have to go back to 1998 to find a Bruins 5th rounder that did anything in the league (Raycroft).
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    I have no issue with burning picks.  It is admittedly a gamble.
    Reul was pick that was thrown away.

    I do have issue with the Bruins drafting. And again, I'll go with the stats and history.

    Best and worst picks of all time.  I'd like to see some Bruins in there as best picks of all time;

    And there's lots of web pages that analyzes NHL drafting talent, you won't find the Bruins at the top of those lists, I found one that rated the Bruins 7th.

    It's the picks in the later rounds that turn out to be gold that can really help your organization.

    Here are the Bruins scouting staff.

    Look at their scout in Sweden, been there 21 years.  How many Swedes have the Bruins ever drafted that amounted to anything?  OK, you will name PJ, but other than him, who?  

    229 players from Sweden have played in the NHL.
    266 players from Czech-land have played in the NHL.
    Czech Bruins - Stumpel drafted, (Ruzicka acquired), some guy named Krejci, and Sobotka.

    I haven't watched hockey in Europe.  I know good players come from there and especially places like Finland and Sweden.  And I know that not that many come out of Germany, matter of fact only 23 of them.  And look at that list and you see a name like Walt Tkaczuk who's obviously a transplant like Ken Hodge who was born in England.

     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I have no issue with burning picks.  It is admittedly a gamble. Reul was pick that was thrown away. I do have issue with the Bruins drafting. And again, I'll go with the stats and history. Best and worst picks of all time.  I'd like to see some Bruins in there as best picks of all time; http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/draft2007/columns/story?id=2910106   And there's lots of web pages that analyzes NHL drafting talent, you won't find the Bruins at the top of those lists, I found one that rated the Bruins 7th. It's the picks in the later rounds that turn out to be gold that can really help your organization. Here are the Bruins scouting staff. http://bruins.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39034   Look at their scout in Sweden, been there 21 years.  How many Swedes have the Bruins ever drafted that amounted to anything?  OK, you will name PJ, but other than him, who?   229 players from Sweden have played in the NHL. 266 players from Czech-land have played in the NHL. Czech Bruins - Stumpel drafted, (Ruzicka acquired), some guy named Krejci, and Sobotka. I haven't watched hockey in Europe.  I know good players come from there and especially places like Finland and Sweden.  And I know that not that many come out of Germany, matter of fact only 23 of them.  And look at that list and you see a name like Walt Tkaczuk who's obviously a transplant like Ken Hodge who was born in England.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Remember Lars Jonsson? Toivenen? Lehtonen? I think the B's Swedish scout is actually a Habs plant.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I never suggested that stats and box scores don't mean anything. I said that they don't mean everything. Just for fun interpret these stats for me please. What kind of chance does this undrafted/drafted prospect have without seeing him ? 66 games 16 goals 17 assists 33 points -8 plus minus 135 pims        
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

       Since were talking draft picks here, I am wondering if you have seen SCOTT LAUGHTON, from Oshawa (OHL), play?
    He is ranked as a 2nd round pick, and his stats aren't overwhelming (64gp 21g 32a 53pts +8 104pim. In the playoffs...6gp 2g 3a 17pim.
    He does not have great size either (6', 177 lbs).
    The thing is though,I have seen him play twice, and he was dominant every shift.He scored twice in one, and had 2 assists in the other, but it just seemed he had a chance to score whenever he was on the ice.
    I was just curious if you had seen this kid play, and did I just get to see him on a couple of real good days, or is this guy flying under the radar?
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : Remember Lars Jonsson? Toivenen? Lehtonen? I think the B's Swedish scout is actually a Habs plant.
    Posted by jaywall[/QUOTE]

    And he's been there 21 years!

    I forgot about Thelven and Timander, at least they played.

    And remember any of these Swedes?  Some are from some pretty dark days; Lehman, Nordstrom, Martin Samuelsson and Mat Thelin.

    All the great Swede players that have played and the Bruins haven't cashed in on any of the late round ones.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : And he's been there 21 years! I forgot about Thelven and Timander, at least they played. And remember any of these Swedes?  Some are from some pretty dark days; Lehman, Nordstrom, Martin Samuelsson and Mat Thelin. All the great Swede players that have played and the Bruins haven't cashed in on any of the late round ones.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    They were all duds. Samuelsson was another first round bomb to make it even worse. How that scout still has a job is beyond me.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : I have no issue with burning picks.  It is admittedly a gamble. Reul was pick that was thrown away. I do have issue with the Bruins drafting. And again, I'll go with the stats and history. Best and worst picks of all time.  I'd like to see some Bruins in there as best picks of all time; http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/draft2007/columns/story?id=2910106   And there's lots of web pages that analyzes NHL drafting talent, you won't find the Bruins at the top of those lists, I found one that rated the Bruins 7th. It's the picks in the later rounds that turn out to be gold that can really help your organization. Here are the Bruins scouting staff. http://bruins.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39034   Look at their scout in Sweden, been there 21 years.  How many Swedes have the Bruins ever drafted that amounted to anything?  OK, you will name PJ, but other than him, who?   229 players from Sweden have played in the NHL. 266 players from Czech-land have played in the NHL. Czech Bruins - Stumpel drafted, (Ruzicka acquired), some guy named Krejci, and Sobotka. I haven't watched hockey in Europe.  I know good players come from there and especially places like Finland and Sweden.  And I know that not that many come out of Germany, matter of fact only 23 of them.  And look at that list and you see a name like Walt Tkaczuk who's obviously a transplant like Ken Hodge who was born in England.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Missed Versteeg in the 5th round of the 2004 draft. Great pick, poor trade.  Also picked Hunwick in the 7th round that year, he's played 250 NHL games.

    2005 they took Sobotka in the 4th (270 NHL games).
    2003: Nate Thompson in the 6th (260 NHL games)
    2001: Alberts in the 6th (425 NHL games) & Jurcina in the 8th (429 NHL games)

    So, some hits in the later rounds.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : Missed Versteeg in the 5th round of the 2004 draft. Great pick, poor trade.  Also picked Hunwick in the 7th round that year, he's played 250 NHL games. 2005 they took Sobotka in the 4th (270 NHL games). 2003: Nate Thompson in the 6th (260 NHL games) 2001: Alberts in the 6th (425 NHL games) & Jurcina in the 8th (429 NHL games) So, some hits in the later rounds.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    True. SOME, but not enough for my taste.

     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]Well with some small gaps (and one large one between Shore and Orr) this team has always benefitted from superstar D - it's practically a signature of the B's - Shore, Orr, Park, Bourque, Chara. We can only hope Hamilton continues in that tradition
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]
    It has been awesome to always have a stud on D as long as I have watched the Bruins, other than a few years between Bourque and Chara (I have been a fan since 1971) As you said I hope Dougie is the next one to carry that torch and the Fab 5 will become the Super 6. 
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton :    Since were talking draft picks here, I am wondering if you have seen SCOTT LAUGHTON, from Oshawa (OHL), play? He is ranked as a 2nd round pick, and his stats aren't overwhelming (64gp 21g 32a 53pts +8 104pim. In the playoffs...6gp 2g 3a 17pim. He does not have great size either (6', 177 lbs). The thing is though,I have seen him play twice, and he was dominant every shift.He scored twice in one, and had 2 assists in the other, but it just seemed he had a chance to score whenever he was on the ice. I was just curious if you had seen this kid play, and did I just get to see him on a couple of real good days, or is this guy flying under the radar?
    Posted by biggskye[/QUOTE]

    Just watched the Ice Dogs play against him and the Generals in the 1st round. Hardworking player who plays with a bit of an edge. He was one of the players who stood out for Oshawa. Dominant and score whenever he was on the ice ? No.

    Just for fun Badhab should study Laughton and his teammates stats to tell us what he thinks of him.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : From that I could say absolutely nothing.  I would need to see his previous years or following years stats and the stats of his team mates. Kiril Kabanov was a lie, they said he was something in the neighborhood of 200 lbs.  When I saw him at the rookie games I was stunned by how thin he was.  I danger of falling through the sewer grates thin.  He was 170 at the very utmost possible and it wouldn't have surprised me if he weighed 155.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Ahhhhh. Your stats failed you. I remember you were one of the ones jay spoke of that cried for Kabanov.

    It would have been more prudent of you to say nothing because of not one minute of seeing him ( or Knight and Spooner for that matter ) rather then squawk on how the Bruins screwed up that draft day.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : And he's been there 21 years! I forgot about Thelven and Timander, at least they played. And remember any of these Swedes?  Some are from some pretty dark days; Lehman, Nordstrom, Martin Samuelsson and Mat Thelin. All the great Swede players that have played and the Bruins haven't cashed in on any of the late round ones.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Mikko Eloranta wasn't the worst ever.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dougie Hamilton : Ahhhhh. Your stats failed you. I remember you were one of the ones jay spoke of that cried for Kabanov. It would have been more prudent of you to say nothing because of not one minute of seeing him ( or Knight and Spooner for that matter ) rather then squawk on how the Bruins screwed up that draft day.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Kabanov was a disease here.  It made some civil minded people crazy.  I recall suggestings of trading the #15 pick to move up to select him.

    Lunacy at it's finest.

     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton


    If they listed Kabanov's real weight I would have had a different opinion.

    And coming closer to draft time I had him in the second round with the Bruins pick, not the Leafs pick.

    Interesting.  Kabanov has talent, no doubt.  Yet it's totally stupid to take a flyer on Kabanov, but no big deal to blow a 5th round pick on Reul.  I don't get that.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've not heard of him and haven't been following the draft since we're out of the Leaf sweepstakes.  Using only hockeydb and oshawa general page and no other resources.

    Scott Laughton.  
    Positives
    I see his weight vary from 170-178, but he is only 17, so that's not unreasonable and it sounds like he will still fill out.  His stats are improving, and that's something I like to see.   5th on the team in scoring, and most of the guys are older than him and/or drafted.  That's good.  He's outproducing a second round pick of Columbus - Boone Jenner.  That's good.  

    What I see questionable:
    Seems to be taking a lot of penalty minutes, but he is putting up points, I wonder about that, is that aggressive good or aggressive stupid?  Plus minus was good in the regular season, but is a -5 in the playoffs so it sounds like they've hit a good team and if not, I wonder what's going on with that.

    Sounds to me like he will go first or second round.  Since I haven't been looking at the mock draft I don't have perspective with the other top picks.

    The PIM's I wonder about, he's 3rd on his team in PIM's. Highest points + highest PIM's leader.  This could be good is he's just plain aggressive, but might be a bit of a headcase.
     
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    Re: Dougie Hamilton



    Well?

    I will say like the kid because of the improving stats, he's outperforming older guys who are already drafted.  Looking at the Bruins place in the current mock draft I *might* like this Stefan Matteau kid better than the other first rounders they have rated before him.  It's harder to evaluate the stats because they are playing in different leagues.
     
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