Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]During the final 5 minutes of the game: Lucic/Horton/Seguin: about 2 minutes of ice time. Campbell: 2 minutes Bergeron: 1:45 Peverley: 1:15 Marchand/Pouliot: 1:10 Thornton: 1 minute Kelly/Paille/Caron: None The goal was scored with Bergeron/Marchand/Pouliot/Campbell on the ice.  Yes, Campbell was the extra attacker.  Lucic/Seguin/Horton had gotten off of the ice about 30 seconds prior, Caron was benched.  I don't know why Peverley wasn't the added forward. Anyway, next shift (the one in dispute) was Campbell/Peverley/Thornton.  Thornton left the ice with 2:30 remaining.  During that final 2:30, only the following 8 forwards saw ice time:  Campbell (0:36), Lucic (1:54), Horton (1:39), Seguin (1:39), Bergeron (1:04), Peverley (0:15), Marchand (0:33), Pouliot (0:33).   The players that could have been put out instead of the shift in dispute while maintaining that set for the final 2:30 were Kelly, Caron, and Paille.  Kelly and Caron both had their butts stuck on the bench since the goal-against. So is it worth being upset that Thornton was on the ice instead of Paille?
    Posted by DrCC[/QUOTE]

    Wow.  Just a perfect response to an old, tired question.  While none of us want to see Thornton on the ice during critical stretches with a one goal deficit, there is usually more to the story than the voices of complaints would have you believe.


    Thank you DrCC -- I think this discussion has been wrapped up.

     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : At 3:25 there are 3 shifts left, or two VERY long shifts.  Send out Seguin, Caron Pouloit, followed by Bergeron Marchand Peverley, the end with the Seguin Lucic Horton with Bergeron coming off the bench for the extra man.  Was that so hard?  
    Posted by Chappy28[/QUOTE]

    Maybe if you're Esposito there are two or three shifts left, but in 2011-12, forwards go hard for about 43-50 seconds.  So there are at least four shifts there and maybe more depending on how you play it.  All shifts are not created equal.  Where you might want to shift some of the blame to the players?  That makeshift fourth line put in a shift that was close to or over a minute long.  In that situation, they're the wideout in the two minute drill.  Make the catch, get the yards, but you also have to get out of bounds and manage the clock or you're not doing your job.  In their case, get it deep, get it on the net, crash the net, force an offensive zone faceoff.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]It was also brought to my attention that in the previous game Thornton had as much ice time as Seguin and Lucic whicj actually means he had more 5 on 5 ice times once you take PP time away. You can't argue with success this early but he was never a jedi mind anyway.  He fires the 4 lines over the boards at anytime. Trust me when I say I noticed last night as well.  First they were scored on to make it 2-1 and I didnt see much positive from their play that would lend me to believe they were gonna take a minute shift and tie the game.  If they wanna throw that line on why not double shift Seguin or someone that was actually hot.  CJ will now get the "He won the cup, he knows more than all of us" which is 100% correct.  But it doesnt mean that it can't be questioned.  Maybe he likes being 1-3.  I know it early but I can tell ya one thing.   The league is too close to take nights off.  Montreal and Buffalo are gonna be hard to beat this year.  Wakey wakey eggs and bakey
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    Seguin is averaging 16:35 a game. Thornton is averaging 10:10 a game. Tough for Thornton to see more ice than Seguin. The official stats have Seguin getting 65% more ice-time.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    I checked that out too, dez, but shupe was correct.  Both Thornton and Seguin had 12 minutes and change against Colorado.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]I checked that out too, dez, but shupe was correct.  Both Thornton and Seguin had 12 minutes and change against Colorado.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
    Than Seguin must be seeing twice as much ice as Thornton during the other 3 games. I wonder why nobody started a thread about it after any of those games?
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : At 3:25 there are 3 shifts left, or two VERY long shifts.  Send out Seguin, Caron Pouloit, followed by Bergeron Marchand Peverley, the end with the Seguin Lucic Horton with Bergeron coming off the bench for the extra man.  Was that so hard?  
    Posted by Chappy28[/QUOTE]
    3:25 means there are 4 shifts left.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    I may be mistaken, but I only remember 2 shifts from that point on in the game. Again, I may be mistaken.

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : At 3:25 there are 3 shifts left, or two VERY long shifts.  Send out Seguin, Caron Pouloit, followed by Bergeron Marchand Peverley, the end with the Seguin Lucic Horton with Bergeron coming off the bench for the extra man.  Was that so hard?  
    Posted by Chappy28[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    Three shifts after the Thornton shift - two shifts for Lucic, Horton, Seguin broken up by a Marchand-Pouliot-Campbell.  Strange that Bergeron didn't get back on the ice between 3:25 and 1:07.  So no only does "Soup" get on as the sixth man on the delayed penalty, he takes a shift from Bergeron?

    Conspiracy!  His Daddy's applying pressure!
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    Ah, it's the Marchand-Pouliot-Campbell shift that I was thinking of, which I thought made perfect sense. The earlier one I guess you would have to know what was going on with Bergeron on the bench.
    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]Three shifts after the Thornton shift - two shifts for Lucic, Horton, Seguin broken up by a Marchand-Pouliot-Campbell.  Strange that Bergeron didn't get back on the ice between 3:25 and 1:07.  So no only does "Soup" get on as the sixth man on the delayed penalty, he takes a shift from Bergeron? Conspiracy!  His Daddy's applying pressure!
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : Seguin is averaging 16:35 a game. Thornton is averaging 10:10 a game. Tough for Thornton to see more ice than Seguin. The official stats have Seguin getting 65% more ice-time.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Thornton had 12 minutes in the last game.  Very similar to Lucic and Seguins ice time that game.  We had how many PP's last night(I think 7-I don't wanna look) thats 14 minutes erased from a 60 minute game. 
    My only point is this and I will leave it alone.  I wasn't going to post on this subject b/c I get labelled.
    Thornton's line is to go out and provide spark and the occasional goal.  Their line put us down 2-1.  We just get within one goal.  With 3 minutes left. There are 12 fwds on the team and 1 should not have been given a shift with 3 minutes left in a game.  Most ECHL and CHL leagues play with 3 lines.  Having 4 lines is a luxury.  If they can't fire Peverly/Paille and anyone not named Thornton out there in a close game I miss the point of hockey.  

    Has the game really passed me by that you bench the player with no offensive skill, who is there to fight and should get less than 10 minutes a night for someone with speed/skill and the ability to add to the attack? 

    I am reading a mixed bag of messages here.  For some it is very cut and dry that Thornton should not have been on the ice, then we get a stats machine giving me a break down of the 503 player in the league in ice time, to a more laid back approach that CJ knows what he is doing.

    My opinion is this.  There is a reason we are losing 1-0 hockey games.  There are reasons why we are losing 3-2 games.  I am not blaming it on Thornton but he should not be on the ice in the 3rd period when down a goal.  Double shift Seguin who was flying last night.    
    1-3.  Its October.  I get it.  But October games and pts are crucial for positioning and just for getting in.  It's time to sit a few stiffs down(not just Thornton) for a period if they arent doing anything.  They keep saying that last year was last year.  Well we went 1-2 at home and lost on the road.  We also lost to two non-playoff teams and one that could be the worst team in the league.  Half the fwds are asleep.  The goalies and Def have been fine.  Marchand/Bergie Seguin have played like its playoffs.  Want me to name names.
    Here you go:
    Lucic- nothing, has been brutal since his 30th goal last year.  Mr. Power Fwd is a shadow of himself.  This isnt euro-league that you are done after 60 games.
    Horton- if you are hurt go get rest and come back when you wanna play.  These two are "power forwards".  Really?  Marchand is a better power fwd at the moment.
    Campy- I am not really sure what happened to him.  I really like him a lot, but his playoffs was not inspiring and since Marchand left that line our 4th line really isnt that good.
    Thornton- I'm not gonna bash him.  He just isn't doing his job after 4 games.

    Lots of time to turn it around.  Maybe a few thrown sticks in practice by the coach will get them going. 


    I will go back to what I said earlier.  Wakey Wakey Eggs and Bakey. 
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? :Their line put us down 2-1.  We just get within one goal.  With 3 minutes left. There are 12 fwds on the team and 1 should not have been given a shift with 3 minutes left in a game. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    Let's not forget the goal came after a long delayed penalty so the guys on the ice had been there for a long time. I really think we're making mountains out of molehills.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : Let's not forget the goal came after a long delayed penalty so the guys on the ice had been there for a long time. I really think we're making mountains out of molehills.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    I agree about your last remark. 
    But won't change my opinion.  These guys are professional athletes and we have 12 fwds.  They are gased from a long shift...  CJ looks down the bench and taps Peverly/Paille/Pouliot(Triple P Line) for example.  But Thornton does not touch the ice.  I already stated why.  I don't care if he is 503 in ice time.  I care that he is on the ice in a close game.  Pts are important.  Our team has a bullseye.  We better start playing like champs b/c these pts do matter.  We have seen teams miss the playoffs in recent yrs b/c of bad starts. 

    Start fresh next game.  A win and we are 2-3.  I just think with the way Montreal and Buffalo look we might be in a battle just to make the playoffs. 
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    Again I think everyone agrees that we don't really want Thornton out there in the 3rd period in key situations.  I think we disagree on how much he is really out there compared to others and and how much of a problem this has really been for the B's so far.  Believe me, if Thornton starts seeing the same amount of ice time as Seguin and the top line, game after game, there will be a unified uproar from everyone her.

    Or, the lines might fall into predictable patterns of ice time, the 4th line might become very effective in their role, and the Bruins might win the Cup...just like they did last year.

     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]Again I think everyone agrees that we don't really want Thornton out there in the 3rd period in key situations.  I think we disagree on how much he is really out there compared to others and and how much of a problem this has really been for the B's so far.  Believe me, if Thornton starts seeing the same amount of ice time as Seguin and the top line, game after game, there will be a unified uproar from everyone her. Or, the lines might fall into predictable patterns of ice time, the 4th line might become very effective in their role, and the Bruins might win the Cup...just like they did last year.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    Yes voice of reason that could happen.   Don't you ever look at the TV and say what the F is ST doing on in a 3-2 game with 3 minutes left.  It would be like the Ducks throwing Parros on with 3 minutes left.  Or Shelly or Orr. 

    The last 2 games there are been pretty solid evidence to support that he is on the ice too much or at the wrong time.  Heck lets fire him on the PP.  Our regulars cant score on it. 

    I don't blame ST for a 1-3 record.  He isnt paid to score goals.  Which is the exact reason why he shouldnt be on the ice in a close game.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    Nice to see some see this the way I do and of course some don't. I Stopped posting on this topic said my 2 sense and glad I got the frustration out of me. Pretty much shupe summed in all up with his last long post totaly agree with it and couldn't have said it any better my self.
    I couldn't coach a lick if I had to teach a team a system but I find it very frustrating when I feel I would be a better in game coach than the pro who coaches our pro team. Julien's use of timeouts or lack there of in many cases and his using certain lines in the situations he does makes zero sense to me. How long last year were many of us calling to put seguin in or play him on the power play or give him more a of shot than playing 8 mins in a game with 4th liners? I feel seguin could have put up much better numbers and been further developed for this season had he been used differently. I am not a coach or a hockey scout ( would love to be one but don't know how one goes about it) but it was apparent to me Seguin last year was our most offensivley skilled forward. Yea he had to develop his physical game but there is no good reason he didn't play with better linemates last year and got regular time on the powerplay in my opinion. If claude sends him back down to the thrid line he is just a stuborn mule wich he is but hey he won a cup it was all claude nothing to do with Tim Thomas right?
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? Don't you ever look at the TV and say what the F is ST doing on in a 3-2 game with 3 minutes left.  Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I do.  I think everyone has done that.  But in the balance of the entire season, I think there is a feeling that Claude may know something about what he is doing and the line change dynamics could be a little more complicated than many here are indicating.  So I have no problem with this concern, I actually share it with you.  But if you are asking why my level of concern doesn't match the urgency of others here, it is because Claude's philosophy of how to use the lines and the general system of rolling lines a little more evenly than other teams went through quite a validation last June.

    For many of us the greatest frustration was Seguin not getting more playing time.  Well, he is now on the top line and getting a lot more opportunity in general.  Beyond that, my preferred approach to Julien's lines changes is to blend any frustration with a little dose of patience at game #4...at least for now.

    Fair enough?
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : Yes, I do.  I think everyone has done that.  But in the balance of the entire season, I think there is a feeling that Claude may know something about what he is doing and the line change dynamics could be a little more complicated than many here are indicating.  So I have no problem with this concern, I actually share it with you.  But if you are asking why my level of concern doesn't match the urgency of others here, it is because Claude's philosophy of how to use the lines and the general system of rolling lines a little more evenly than other teams went through quite a validation last June. For many of us the greatest frustration was Seguin not getting more playing time.  Well, he is now on the top line and getting a lot more opportunity in general.  Beyond that, my preferred approach to Julien's lines changes is to blend any frustration with a little dose of patience at game #4...at least for now. Fair enough?
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    Very well explained. 
    When I saw Thorton on the ice I did gringe the same way I did last season. The thing is it's my opinion and what Julien proved while the other teams were breaking down in the playoffs and Bruins relatively healthy , rolling 4 lines works in the bigger scheme of things.  It's didn't work 2 years ago, it didn't 3 years ago but can we really point out it was because of rolling 3 lines the Bruins didn't win the cup ?
    Like nite told me that I was not qualified to determine that Jarvis was the reason the Habs PP was one of the leagues best then nobody here on this board (unless they're Scotty Bowman alias in disguise) are qualified to say rolling 4 lines and having Thorton on the ice with 3mins left is the reason the Bruins lost.

    DrCC had the best explanation.  Basically Julien rested his top forwards for the final 2-21/2 mins of the game by putting 4th line on for what... 35-45secs ?  Then we didn't see Thorton, Caron .... on the ice any longer .
    I remember last seasonSharks - Wings game7 and Datsyukbeing on with about 3-4mins left in the game , last minute of the elimination and he and Zetterberg were gassed.  They did not go back on and lost the game. 
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : Yes, I do.  I think everyone has done that.  But in the balance of the entire season, I think there is a feeling that Claude may know something about what he is doing and the line change dynamics could be a little more complicated than many here are indicating.  So I have no problem with this concern, I actually share it with you.  But if you are asking why my level of concern doesn't match the urgency of others here, it is because Claude's philosophy of how to use the lines and the general system of rolling lines a little more evenly than other teams went through quite a validation last June. For many of us the greatest frustration was Seguin not getting more playing time.  Well, he is now on the top line and getting a lot more opportunity in general.  Beyond that, my preferred approach to Julien's lines changes is to blend any frustration with a little dose of patience at game #4...at least for now. Fair enough?
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]
    great post fletch...my feelings exactly(which is of course WHY it's a great post)
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    Legion, the shift was over a minute for the other two. Thornton wisely got off at 55 seconds.  THAT is more of a problem for me than the decision to put them on the ice.  Their role at that point in the game isn't to score goals or even to whack guys - it's to move heaven and earth to get puck possession and/or momentum and/or a face-off in the zone and then get the heck off.  Marchand had a 33 second shift in between the two Lucic/Horton/Seguin shifts at the end of the game.  That would be the perfect length to set up the top six to each have two back to back high energy shifts (2:52 = 4 43 second shifts). 

    There are good reasons to go with the fourth line in that situation, just like there are good reasons to take a safety on second down when you're down 4 points, but the guys who you throw out there have to know their role.  If they're thinking they're going out to be the heroes, they're most likely to be the goats.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : great post fletch...my feelings exactly(which is of course WHY it's a great post)
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]

    Heh, heh, now I now how dumb I am when I disagree with you...;)
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    6 minutes left in the Colorado game the 4th line was on the ice I cringed. I've seen many times when Julien throws Thornton-Campbell-Paille over the boards as they are about to take a draw in the offensive zone. I disagree with these any many other moves  by Claude.

    I know hockey fans in Detroit hammer on Babcock but he won a cup, same in Pittsburgh but Bylsma and Torts in New York, they also won cups. Just because they have won a championship doesn't mean you can't disagree with some of their coaching tactics.

    Idiocy that Thornton and Lucic have gotten the same amount of minutes!
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]6 minutes left in the Colorado game the 4th line was on the ice I cringed. I've seen many times when Julien throws Thornton-Campbell-Paille over the boards as they are about to take a draw in the offensive zone. I disagree with these any many other moves  by Claude. I know hockey fans in Detroit hammer on Babcock but he won a cup, same in Pittsburgh but Bylsma and Torts in New York, they also won cups. Just because they have won a championship doesn't mean you can't disagree with some of their coaching tactics. Idiocy that Thornton and Lucic have gotten the same amount of minutes!
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    San, Lucic is averaging 15:34/game. Thornton is playing 10:10/game.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : San, Lucic is averaging 15:34/game. Thornton is playing 10:10/game. Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

          http://bruins.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2011020025

    My bad should have stated I was still reffering to the same game. Thornton 12:22 - Lucic 12:44  again this should never happen, no excuses.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? :       http://bruins.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2011020025 My bad should have stated I was still reffering to the same game. Thornton 12:22 - Lucic 12:44  again this should never happen, no excuses.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    San, you'll get no argument from me.
     
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    Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?

    In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down a goal with 3:25 left in the thrid period what line would you go with? : San, you'll get no argument from me.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    It's just odd to me Dez looking at some of Julien's minute allotment(s). Lucic 20Mins in the win vs. the Lightning with Thornton getting 9Min...Umm well yah...
     

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