Down is up. Up is down

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : You cant seriously cite a foxnews poll as a worthy source. You bashed liberal sources and then source foxnews.... Really?
    Posted by I-Like-Hockey[/QUOTE]

    No.  I was using the provided sources to show how inaccurate all of the "opinion polls" are.

    More important, however, is the fact that in Canada, if you voice an opinion that is against the current wave, you can lose your job.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    Not "in Canada".  At RogersSportsNet.  I'll reserve further comment until I've seen his comments, but if this is just Faceless Media Conglomorate dumping the guy for his views, then that is sad.  I'd feel the same way if he'd come out and said "Avery didn't go far enough!" and they dumped him.

    red - generally agree about your "dog in the fight" comment, though I've got my dogs, and I'll fight for them, if you see where the metaphor goes.

    Politics aside, can I get an amen on how well-behaved this potentially-loaded conversation has been?  I mean, for this group?  Someone call King Harald.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : More important, however, is the fact that in Canada, if you voice an opinion that is against the current wave, you can lose your job.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]


    What if his statement had been, "I am disappointed with Sean Avery's misguided position on women being able to vote. Regardless of whether it's legal or not, it will always be wrong."

    Cause to be fired?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : What if his statement had been, "I am disappointed with Sean Avery's misguided position on women being able to vote . Regardless of whether it's legal or not, it will always be wrong." Cause to be fired?
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    This doesn't ring true.  A man can vote, therefore a woman can vote.  A man can get married, therefore a woman can get married.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : You cant seriously cite a foxnews poll as a worthy source. You bashed liberal sources and then source foxnews.... Really?
    Posted by I-Like-Hockey[/QUOTE]

    And yet you raised no concern with CNN being used a source...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : This doesn't ring true.  A man can vote, therefore a woman can vote.  A man can get married, therefore a woman can get married.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    You missed the point; there are numerous occassions when stating an opinion is cause for getting fired. The most obvious example is when the employer reaches the conclusion that the employee's conduct risks alienating a significant number of customers. I guarantee you this doesn't happen just in Canada.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : From Yahoo:  In a statement, Sportsnet spokesman Dave Rashford said: “Mr. Goddard was a freelance contractor and in recent weeks it had become clear that he is not the right fit for our organization.” Now, that says to me they weren't concerned with his "work account" but with his views.   And that's not a reason to fire somebody. And here is an article that says was I was trying to, but I failed to get my point across: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/OtherSports/2011/05/12/18140521.html
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Really good article, thanks for sharing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : You missed the point; there are numerous occassions when stating an opinion is cause for getting fired. The most obvious example is when the employer reaches the conclusion that the employee's conduct risks alienating a significant number of customers. I guarantee you this doesn't happen just in Canada.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    Sorry.  You failed to make the point clear.  If the guy believed that women shouldn't vote, and said so on Twitter, I don't think that is a reason for him to lose his job.

    If the same exact situation happened in the US, I don't believe the person would be fired.  The ACLU would be all over it (for better or for worse).  The guy got fired for stating a belief that has been around for 2,000+ years plus and that a large portion (exact percentage unknown) of the world still holds true.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    Avery had an epipheny!  Kudos!  He is still an idiot.  The equality chat is basically what Fletch stated, keep it off the boards.  As for NAS's comment on minority and majority, the only thing I can add is about historical change.  The minority will have a tendancy to be just as narrow minded as the majority. Over time steadfast held beliefs are eventually modifed not left or right of the issue, but for the common ground of thought of the society.  So, when equal rights begins to be fully accepted, it is understood the minority and majority will hold onto steadfast values despite the fact those values may be  outdated and proven incorrect. Equal Rights is not the argument, but how it is administered is.  

    By the way Avery's "sloppy seconds" was rude.  I laugh at the remark and especially at him.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4everbruins. Show 4everbruins's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : Speaking as, I assume, the only poster here with actually a dog in this fight, I still don't see why issues like this can't always be approached calm, rationally, and with respect to other poeple's opnions. To be honest, it's no skin off my nose if someone is for or against it, but there's nothing wrong with discussing it like adults. One funny and odd part of this that sometimes gets overlooked though is the economic benefit of it. When I was planning my wedding I discovered that there's now a whole new nuptial industry focusing solely on gay marriage that's popped up since legalization. As many as 40,000 new jobs in the wedding industry have been created in Canada since legalization. Just thought it was a neat point. And bringing it back to hockey, Avery has been asked to be on the cover of Outlooks magazine (Canada's top LGBT mag) so he's seeing some financial upside from this.
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    geez, it just occurred to me when you mentioned economics that they'll soon be a HUGE need for women that will agree to carry Gay couples babies (sperm donors should grow in number too!) Wow, good thing we have the technology to allow this, otherwise.......with the large numbers of gay marriages that are upon us, we might not survive as a species.......given two men or two women can't naturally conceive.

    Tongue in cheek.......sorry, couldn't resist.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down :  If the same exact situation happened in the US, I don't believe the person would be fired.  The ACLU would be all over it (for better or for worse). 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Definition of at-will employment, and note that the sportsnet people highlighted the "freelance" nature of the guy's work:

    any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work.  
    The doctrine of at-will employment has been criticized as predicated upon severely flawed assumptions about the inherent distribution of power and information in the employee-employer relationship and its brutal harshness upon employees. Regardless, the doctrine is widely credited as one of the major factors behind the strength of the U.S. economy; this thesis has been eloquently advanced by leading scholars in the field of law and economics such as Professors Richard A. Epstein and Richard Posner.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    I have to think that if the Bruins lost to the habs, this off-topic discussion would be much more heated.  Since they are in the ECF, this board could probably tackle abortion, euthanasia, the middle east and maybe even fix the economy with all issues being resolved in a peaceful manner.  I'm not going to wade into any of those issues, but I will agree with N-a-S in saying that a person should not be persecuted for their views, no matter what they are.  The terms minority and majority may or may not be accurate on this issue, but we could sub in 'new view' and 'established view' instead.  Avery should be free to advocate a new definition of marriage, and the broadcaster should be free to say he is against it, both without consequence.  Freedom of thought and word is fundamental to us all.  I also think it is somewhat hypocritical/poor taste for an alternative lifestyle magazine to want Avery on the cover for speaking out in support of gay rights when prior to this his most notable quote was derogatory to the entire female population.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    Back to Avery.....who the hell cares what his position on social issues are. I agree with his stance on this topic is but it means nothing to me that we agree. Nor should anyone crucify him for his views. Stick to hockey and let the social wars play out on a more appropriate stage.....

    What is next? David Koci's role in the war on x-mas?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE] and the broadcaster should be free to say he is against it, both without consequence. 
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    The problem is that there are still consequences for the broadcaster's employer. Sportsnet probably doesn't care what the broadcaster's opinion on same sex marriage is, but they care a great deal about how the broadcaster's intended audience for that statement feels about Sportsnet.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Down is up. Up is down : The problem is that there are still consequences for the broadcaster's employer. Sportsnet probably doesn't care what the broadcaster's opinion on same sex marriage is, but they care a great deal about how the broadcaster's intended audience for that statement feels about Sportsnet.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    In that case, the audience is the issue, not the broadcaster.  If people are going to stop watching or listening to a channel because they don't like (widely accepted) point of view of a single employee, they need to come down to Earth. 

    The most fair outcome would have been for the upset people to stop watching or listening to his show, forcing his rating to plummet, giving the network a good reason to let him go.

    A career was destroyed because a guy voiced his widely accepted point of view and Team Political Correct in Canada jumped the gun.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Down is up. Up is down

    DC- do you honestly believe that Sportsnet would lose any material audience do to Goddard's tweet?

    Goddard wrote: "I completely and whole-heartedly support Todd Reynolds and his support for the traditional and TRUE meaning of marriage."
     
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