Draft picks for Kessel shake out

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    for the record I think that Chiarelli made every single pick in the 2006 draft. I think he probably talked to some of the scouts and they came up with a list that he Ok'd. I know that he orchestrated the trade for Rask. I'm just giving Rusty a hard time because Chiarelli was not the acting GM at the time, Rusty refuses to believe in these things called facts, and I hate him. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I know that he orchestrated the trade for Rask.

    you must know something everyone does not- speculation my dear guesswork

    one thing certain since jeff left we stank in the draft.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i do know something most don't. I've been told face to face by one of the two men that made that trade (chiarelli and john ferguson jr) that it was made between those two.

     

    Now, on to your point about how the grinders are easy to get and they are useless without the scorers...uhhh, not true. 

    Vancouver, Washington, NYR, Philly, lately, Pittsburgh. Teams like taht need more depth. Look at NYR. first seed. trade their character, and depth, and grinders and get Nash. Instantly take a huge step back. They trade a skill guy (gaborik) for more depth, grinders, character, and instantly take a step forward. Skill guys win in EA sports NHL, not the NHL. Hockey teams do that. 

    [/QUOTE]

    skill players - gaborik not one of those he is not the type of talent i am referring too, never did much in the playoffs for the rangers. 

    tell me how many "grinders" have won the conn smuthe in the past . if it is not a goali it is a top skilled forward or top bluleliner

    if bruins win cup i gurantee you that Paille, campbell, kelly, will not win conn smythe and i would add loui to that list eventhough he is not a grinder type

     

    [/QUOTE]

    without players like kelly and paille and campbell, I guarantee you the bruins won't win the cup. you don't get hockey. look at the past cup winners. depth, balance, two way players, that's what wins. 

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to marco0863's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ranford went with courtnall (liked him) for Moog- anyone remember why?

     



    Money and contract. Geoff Courtnall was due a new deal, so Sinden dangled Ranford in the deal. Deal done.    2 years later Ranford ends up with a horsehoe up his rectum and Sinden acts like he was never responsible. Classic.

     

    Moog was a very good goalie here, so it's not like that deal didn't work overall.  But, it's an example of where Sinden's priorities were as a puppet for Jacobs back then.

    That was a problem for decades. Sinden can rot in hell.  What a loser.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Have to disagree

    Boston could never get through mtl - moog was always stellar against mtl and beating mtl after all those years of losing was priority - it was a huge hurdle and it worked .

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope.

    Lemelin won all 4 games in the 1988 playoffs against the Candiens when they finally beat them .

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to TheGuyWithDaThing's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TheGuyWithDaThing's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DrCC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've read them.  To him, it probably looked like you were just cherry-picking trades to support your argument, not trying to define a category of players that should only be considered.

    It's clear to you because you know what you are trying to argue in your head.  It is not so clear to the rest of us who are not inside your head.

    [/QUOTE]

    I wasn't cherrypicking at all. I've already said Sinden made some good ones and some atrocious ones, the latter monetarily related. I also said Chia is very good at trading, minus the Iginal botch job, but his drafting has been weak.

    I think this is realtively accurate analysis at the very least.

    Drafting his a crapshoot, so I don't get all bent out of shape when he misses. But, to seriously not be happy with the overall skill set the players you know you are picking and then picking them, top 5?  It's not good. Let's not spin the yields on 2 top 5 picks within 5 years of one another that aren't even here.

    You should be getting cornerstone guys (barring injury problems) in those spots.

    We have Reilly Smith, a concussed Eriksson (no one's fault but a cheapshotting Orpik) and some prospects for two top 5 picks.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Along with Dougie Hamilton. Stud in the making.

    I'd consider Jared Knight a near-miss. He was considered a great pick; injuries just de-railed him.

    Joe Morrow could be a VERY good trade chip this year. He's just in the wrong organization with so many other good, young puck moving defensemen.

    Fraser...meh. Stop-gap solution.

    Also, you called NAS out for the "He didn't trade Raycroft". Well, PC didn't draft Kessel, either.

    [/QUOTE]

    Chiarelli drafted Kessel. This was covered and confirmed last night by most here. EVen Kelviana admitted it. To think a GM had no say in his first ever draft pick is ludicrous and preposterous all rolled into one.

    I like Hamilton so far.   I think that was a good pick. Kessel and then Seguin were good picks but the apparently felt each weren;t coachable, which I put on the scouts and the GM.

    Who on earth picks someone in the top 5 of any draft who might not take the coaching?

    The Redskins just did it with RG3 and look at that unfolding disaster.

    [/QUOTE]

    To be fair, Chiarelli was brought on less than a month before the draft, and thus didn't really have a chance to be fully involved in the scouting process. And there are a few issues I have with the "might not take the coaching" line. First, they're 17 or 18 years old when getting scouted, so it's hard to judge someone based on that alone. Marchand is a little turd, and nobody would have guessed that he would have turned into anything remotely coachable, but he has. Also, Kessel and Seguin were so clear cut the best players available that it would have been ridiculous to draft anybody else. And like I said, when Kessel was drafted, Claude wasn't the coach, and thus they weren't as focused on having two-way players.

    [/QUOTE]

    he was the assistant General manager in Ottawa. I'm pretty sure he was familiar with all the players in the draft.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to bim09's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bim09's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    +1 Stanley Cup, -1 Stanley Cup.

     

    Eriksson, Smith, Hamilton and Knight:

     

    Eriksson - Concussion magnet, grinder, JAG.

    Smith - Better than Seguin in alot of area's, more consistent.

    Hamilton - Longway to go.

    Knight - Injury prone, AHL 2nd line forward.

     

    Tyler Toffoli - On fiyah!

     



    Wow, you started right out with dumb. You're perhaps the only person that's ever watched Eriksson play who came away with the idea that he was a grinder. He's been one of the league's most consistent scoring wingers for the last 5 years while playing stellar D along the way. Concussion magnet? That's perhaps the dumbest thing youu've ever stated. The guy missed 3 games in the last 5 years before getting mugged by Scott. Feel free to list all of the guys who played more games than him in that time span. I'm sure the list is incredibly short. Hey, I get it Bim. He's no Kabanov but give the guy a break. In all seriousness, is it also Savard's fault that he was hit into retirement? How about that Bergeron? I really hate the way he attracts concussions.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If my comments are dumb then what does that say about your detailed replies?

     

    Lemme break it down for you the way I see it.  Eriksson's been playing in the West; a skating conference.  He's never had to worry that much about some guy cleaning his clock at the blue line.  But in the East the game is a little more physical and you have to keep your head up a little more.  But, it appears that Eriksson is still playing a Western conference game.  And, that's just inviting unsuspecting heavy hits.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's even sillier Bim. There's zero chance that the Western conference is significantly more dangerous than the East, regardless of the perception some folks may have. I also love your idea that Loui invited that attack from Scott. Please elaborate on what he should've done differently on that play.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's not what I said..

     

    Eriksson does play a Western conference game, and he does have to make the adjustment to the East.  And also the added fact that he's playing for the Bruins, not the Dallas Stars.

     

    Who does Dallas have a heated rivalry with?  How many fighting majors do they have?  How many penalty minutes do they avg?

    *edit

    Never mind, I just looked.

    11-12

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&viewName=penaltyKillTime

    12-13

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?season=20122013&gameType=2&viewName=penaltyKillTime

     

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    There's a huge difference between winning the Conn Smythe (individual award) and winning a Cup.  Look over the history of that award, and it's obvious that it's an award for either the top goalie or the leading scorer on a Cup finalist, and typically the Cup winner.  If your understanding of how teams win cups stops with the goalie and the top scorer, you haven't been paying attention.  Almost every team that makes the Cup final, and every team that wins one, has a group of players below the top tier who raises its game in the playoffs and provides timely goals, shutdown defense, great special teams play or whatever.  Look at it this way - seems like every year there's a guy like an Ovechkin or Stamkos Tavares who leads the playoffs in scoring after the first round.  Sometimes, that guy is golfing even though he leads the playoffs in scoring.  If their teams advanced, those high-scoring guys would be Conn Smythe contenders.  But they didn't.  And they didn't in large part because they didn't get the support across the roster.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    Maybe I'm too late to this party, but to criticize the Bruins for drafting Kessel, Seguin, Thornton or any other top pick they eventually traded is loopy.  When you have #1 picks or top 5 picks, you don't draft for need and you don't draft for "fit".  You are there to get the highest value asset on the table whether you think he'll play for you for the next 20 years or you think you'll be flipping him on day two as part of a blockbuster deal.  Case in point: the Quebec Nordiques draft Eric Lindros #1 overall.  There wasn't even a snowball's chance he'd play there, but rather than pass him over and take Forsberg, the took him and then dealt him for Forsberg and a boatload of other assets. 

    The same people who say the Bruins shouldn't have taken Seguin if they thought he was going to be too soft or too much of a party animal would be tearing Chiarelli a new one today for not having taken him if his career followed exactly the same arc in Florida.  The Bruins would be looking at a solid but unspectacular Gudbranson, or maybe a smaller, more injury-prone Skinner at best, then maybe the offensively gifted but porous Cam Fowler, or slow to develop Portland guys Neiderreiter and Johansen.  Or worse, Brett Connolly.  In other words, the value proposition for those guys is way, way lower.

    There's no reason a drafted player "has to" work out in Boston for it to be a good pick.  If the Bruins get better value for the guy than what the could have gotten by picking someone else?  Good pick.  The turned one top 5 pick into a top 5 and a top 10 pick + a second rounder.  Good pick.  They turned the second overall pick into two good, top 9 wingers and two additional prospects.  That's decent value.  Much better than just having Skinner or Gudbranson instead.

    And last but not least, it makes no sense to say drafting is a crapshoot and then suggest the Bruins drafted poorly when they got the most valuable asset available at that draft slot.  Zero sense.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    That's my point, marco.  You need guys like Paille who starts scoring key goals in the playoffs at a higher clip, like Campbell and Kelly who chip in key goals and play with complete sacrifice, or it doesn't matter how many fancy stars you have.

    Detroit started winning when Scotty came to town.  Fedorov's first year, they were 34-38-8 under Bryan Murray.  They improved their regular season record under Murray for the next two years, but won exactly one playoff round.  Scotty's first three years, they won five playoff rounds, went to the finals, and then his fourth year, they won a Cup.  The Cup winning team was completely different than Fedorov's first year.  In fact, Fedorov only had 63 points that year.  The Wings' leading scorer in the regular season was Shanahan.  Fedorov led them in playoff scoring, but they had a lot of guys who provided scoring support - Kozlov stepped up significantly, Martin Lapointe had 12 points in 20 games, Larry Murphy was huge, Kirk Maltby scored daggers (3 regular season goals, 5 playoff goals - 5th most on the team).

    Players on Scotty's Wings may have had the occasional 100+ point seasons, but they won when there weren't runaway scoring stars.  They played closer to the way the Bruins play - responsible, professional, deep.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    And Ilitch's deep pockets when there wasn't any cap...

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    I don't agree, marco.  I think that Wings team would have added someone else - maybe not as flashy as Fedorov - and they would have looked very much like the Bruins - and still won.

    Again, the fact Lapointe was never able to be a second line player goes to my point - he was a hard-working professional player who played above his head in the playoffs and had a key role in taking a complete TEAM to the playoffs.  You need that.  Someone will always win the Conn Smythe, so it's not a very useful measure.  Toews should have won it last year if it was based on the finals, but Kane had a more productive playoffs overall. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to bim09's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    If my comments are dumb then what does that say about your detailed replies?

     

    Lemme break it down for you the way I see it.  Eriksson's been playing in the West; a skating conference.  He's never had to worry that much about some guy cleaning his clock at the blue line.  But in the East the game is a little more physical and you have to keep your head up a little more.  But, it appears that Eriksson is still playing a Western conference game.  And, that's just inviting unsuspecting heavy hits.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's even sillier Bim. There's zero chance that the Western conference is significantly more dangerous than the East, regardless of the perception some folks may have. I also love your idea that Loui invited that attack from Scott. Please elaborate on what he should've done differently on that play.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's not what I said..

     

    Eriksson does play a Western conference game, and he does have to make the adjustment to the East.  And also the added fact that he's playing for the Bruins, not the Dallas Stars.

     

    Who does Dallas have a heated rivalry with?  How many fighting majors do they have?  How many penalty minutes do they avg?

    *edit

    Never mind, I just looked.

    11-12

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&viewName=penaltyKillTime

    12-13

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?season=20122013&gameType=2&viewName=penaltyKillTime

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The teams play against the other conference in basically 35% of the games. It's not significantly different for them when it happens. How many PIMs Loui's teamates have has zero bearing on this debate. I have no idea why you would think it's at all relevent so feel free to elaborate and enlighten if you will.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to marco0863's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ranford went with courtnall (liked him) for Moog- anyone remember why?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Money and contract. Geoff Courtnall was due a new deal, so Sinden dangled Ranford in the deal. Deal done.    2 years later Ranford ends up with a horsehoe up his rectum and Sinden acts like he was never responsible. Classic.

     

     

    Moog was a very good goalie here, so it's not like that deal didn't work overall.  But, it's an example of where Sinden's priorities were as a puppet for Jacobs back then.

    That was a problem for decades. Sinden can rot in hell.  What a loser.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Have to disagree

    Boston could never get through mtl - moog was always stellar against mtl and beating mtl after all those years of losing was priority - it was a huge hurdle and it worked .

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope.

    Lemelin won all 4 games in the 1988 playoffs against the Candiens when they finally beat them .

    [/QUOTE]

    He may be talking about '90 and '91 in general where they kicked their butts in general v.s. the underdog '88 club.

    That November '89 at the Garden was a classic.   "Ludwig Fell Down!"

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember that game down 2-0 in the 3rd period came back with 3 late goals.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Draft picks for Kessel shake out

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Well this thread was aimed at two posters we know. With all of mega trolls assertions about Seguin, the Bruins should have won last years cup. Right ?

    So the point is Boston wins the  2013 cup with Kessel and Toffoli ?

    or PC still doesn't draft well ? Or both ?



    No San.  I was mostly refering to Seguins play in the post season last year and poor value on Eriksson, so far.

     

     

    And I think Knight is a career AHL'er in my humble opinion.  So, yes Chiarelli's drafting sucks.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share