Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    Hypothetical proposal here folks.

    Many talking heads are saying Seguins game is regressing.(IMO he hasnt been very good lately). He doesnt get much Icetime currently and I think we can all agree he looks a bit confused/shaken out there at times.

    Because of the under20 rule for the A he cant be sent down.

    So this is what im wondering. Say PC discloses that TS is nursing a "lower body" injury(this injury could be real or not). Could he then be scratched for a game and sent to Provy for a 5game conditioning stint? Allowing  Caron/Hamil a bit of time to skate with the biggs?

    I have no idea how this would work or if it would be considered manipulation of the leagues rules or not. But dont you think 5games in the A with 20mins a game of time would benefit this kid. Hopefully restore his swagger and get him going, with savard out everyone is going to have to pickup the slack especially TS.

    So hopefully a move like that would get him going.

    Now please tear me to shreds ;)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    What's dumber is Julien not putting Seguin on the PP when he has the best onetimer on the team. How can Seguin get better when he's benched everytime he makes a mistake ? He can't...

    I watch allot of Edmonton games and Hall makes tons of mistakes but guess what his minutes don't go down. Tom Renney knows Hall is a young kid trying to learn the NHL style but still caters to Hall's strengths speed and transition. Renney lets Hall control the puck through the middle on rushes but doesn't sit Taylor at the end of the bench for 5 or 6 shifts after a turnover this is where Julien is a birdbrain!

    Julien's mistake is not showing trust in Tyler and is for sure not instilling any confidence so the answer is no Seguin should not be sent down. As far as being sent down because of conditioning I'm sure DRCC will have the answer ILH...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    at this point in his young career he needs to play somewhere other than the nhl. he is not physically or mentally mature enough to compete this year. what is the reason he can't go to the ahl? is a contract thing or an ahl rule thing? either way, a rule the will KEEP a player from developing is nonsense. that being said, if the b's can manipulate the this stupid rule in their favor(conditioning stint), they should do it immediately and as often as they need.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    I was going to say that this is way too convoluted for me to figure out (since it isn't cap related), but it turns out to be simple:

    13.8 Conditioning Loan
    If the Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan to evade the Re-Entry Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate.

    Since the transfer agreement with junior leagues is part of the CBA, trying to pull something like this would put the Bruins at Bettman's whim.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]I was going to say that this is way too convoluted for me to figure out (since it isn't cap related), but it turns out to be simple: 13.8 Conditioning Loan If the Commissioner has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Conditioning Loan to evade the Re-Entry Waivers, or otherwise Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take such disciplinary action against the Club, as he deems appropriate. Since the transfer agreement with junior leagues is part of the CBA, trying to pull something like this would put the Bruins at Bettman's whim.
    Posted by DrCC[/QUOTE]


    Thanks DrCC. Well I guess this shoots down my idea and is probably why it hasnt been done allready. Too bad as well. It would be interesting to be able to see if Seguin and Hamil/Colbourne or something could gel. Because you dont get that opportunity in the NHL.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]What's dumber is Julien not putting Seguin on the PP when he has the best onetimer on the team. How can Seguin get better when he's benched everytime he makes a mistake ? He can't... I watch allot of Edmonton games and Hall makes tons of mistakes but guess what his minutes don't go down. Tom Renney knows Hall is a young kid trying to learn the NHL style but still caters to Hall's strengths speed and transition. Renney lets Hall control the puck through the middle on rushes but doesn't sit Taylor at the end of the bench for 5 or 6 shifts after a turnover this is where Julien is a birdbrain! Julien's mistake is not showing trust in Tyler and is for sure not instilling any confidence so the answer is no Seguin should not be sent down. As far as being sent down because of conditioning I'm sure DRCC will have the answer ILH...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    I agree about Julien not showing trust in TS and helping to destroy any rythm the kid may have by swapping his linemates every game and benching him for mistakes that he must watch Ryder and Wheeler even Kampfer make over and over again. Got to be confusing and frustrating for the kid, he always has a "Im mad but confused" look on his face.

    I wonder what Taylor Hall would think about playing with Thornton-Campbell lol. Because that is Seguins reality.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    Really, who give's a sh*t if Seguin isn't playing 20 min a game.  The kids 19..

    What matters is he's learning at a great pace.  Nice n slow.  And he's surrounded by excellent vets with, arguably, one of the best 2-way coaches in the game.

    All the scouts said 2 years.  So, next year we'll see.  But to start ripping a kid who just turned 19 because he's not playing like Stamkos is just madness.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]Really, who give's a sh*t if Seguin isn't playing 20 min a game.  The kids 19.. What matters is he's learning at a great pace.  Nice n slow.  And he's surrounded by excellent vets with, arguably, one of the best 2-way coaches in the game. All the scouts said 2 years.  So, next year we'll see.  But to start ripping a kid who just turned 19 because he's not playing like Stamkos is just madness.
    Posted by bim09[/QUOTE]


    Right because everyone in here was ripping the kid....

    Madness I say MADNESS!!!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from screw-cindy-and-ovie. Show screw-cindy-and-ovie's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    Seguin will benefit from this in the long run IMO. No need to put pressure on him to produce. I think the main reason he plays scared is that he knows one mistake will get him benched.

    In Carolina and Edmonton, when Jeff and Taylor make mistakes, they have the luxury of not getting benched, which I think has an effect on a rookies learning pace. 

    Seguin is on a team with many great charachter vets such as Bergeron, Chara, Thomas, Recchi, Ference, Stuart, Seidenberg etc. Playing on this team will be good for him. I see him hitting 75 points at the minimum in 2011-2012

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    Sending him the AHL for five games would be a risk - no guarantee he goes down and lights it up, and what would that do to his confidence?  It wouldn't even necessarily be a talent question - he's down there with little to no sense of who is linemates are, and he's playing with guys who aren't as good as Wheeler and Ryder.

    The other side of the proposal can happen the second Savard's on LTIR, though, and hey, why not?

    There are plenty of ways for a guy to develop.  Stamkos got beat like a donkey for the first half of his rookie year - and sideshow Barry was publicly undressing the kid.  Yet hey presto - lookee.  Imagine what a great player he'd be if his development hadn't been stunted by not playing in the A at that time!

    It's possible that a stint in the A - say, mid-November to the end of this month - would have been helpful for TS now and in the future.  Maybe he adjusts more quickly there.  Maybe they put Colborne on his wing and they hit it off from game one.  But there's no guarantee that things would go that way.  For one thing, Seguin didn't lack confidence coming into camp.  His confidence has wavered (if it has) in the NHL.  He'd have had the same issues after an AHL stint if he struggled to score or had troubles with his other responsibilities.  He'd still have to learn to be responsible at the NHL level - in fact, that's often the difference between a Martin St-Pierre or a Brett Harkins and an NHL scorer - one can do it in the relative chaos of the A, the other can score against the precision units in the NHL.

    The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the only way to screwge the development of a guy with Seguin's talent is to expose him too early.  If you let them run like wild horses and they have success, you'll never get them to listen and grow into more complete players or even more successful one-dimensional players.  If you let them run and the team crashes, you don't wreck their confidence, you wreck their desire to play the game.  Seguin has the kind of talent that finds a way to flourish - it might take a few months, a year, two years, but before long, he'll be following the path Marchand is blazing - playing so well no coach could resist moving him up the lineup, giving him more opportunities to make the coach look like a genius.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]What's dumber is Julien not putting Seguin on the PP when he has the best onetimer on the team. How can Seguin get better when he's benched everytime he makes a mistake ? He can't... I watch allot of Edmonton games and Hall makes tons of mistakes but guess what his minutes don't go down. Tom Renney knows Hall is a young kid trying to learn the NHL style but still caters to Hall's strengths speed and transition. Renney lets Hall control the puck through the middle on rushes but doesn't sit Taylor at the end of the bench for 5 or 6 shifts after a turnover this is where Julien is a birdbrain! Julien's mistake is not showing trust in Tyler and is for sure not instilling any confidence so the answer is no Seguin should not be sent down. As far as being sent down because of conditioning I'm sure DRCC will have the answer ILH...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]


    I 100% agree with you SanDog,

    I think Tyler Seguin is getting a raw-deal here; Claude Julien. He had 6 points in his first 8gms, playing center and becoming a dangerous option on the power-play. As soon as the kid showed signs of just "that" being a kid he reduced his ice-time to about 8min and eventually benched the kid. That, in my opinion, started Seguin's downfall. You can tell his confidence is rattled. The kid does not know what's being asked of him at times and certainly looks lost lately. 

    But, i blame this on poor management by Julien. October - December were the months where Seguin had to get as much opportunity to make mistakes and grow as a player. Perhaps playing 16min+ during that time and getting consistent power-play time would of done him a lot of good. However, it's the start of the stretch run and for sure Julien is not going to mess around with any "growing-pains". When, quite-frankly, he brought this situation on to himself (Julien that is) and the development of Tyler. He screwed up, but he is too prideful to admit it.

    Im not going to judge Seguin this year at all. He was not handled well, you cannot blame him for not adapting to Julien's ever changing schemes he has for him. Let the kid play, let him get into a grove. You cannot keep tossing him out there for 6min one game, then 12 min another game, then benched for the next.

    The team is playing tremendous of late, but i am no Claude apologists, he needs to go!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    "I watch allot of Edmonton games and Hall makes tons of mistakes but guess what his minutes don't go down. Tom Renney knows Hall is a young kid trying to learn the NHL style but still caters to Hall's strengths speed and transition. Renney lets Hall control the puck through the middle on rushes but doesn't sit Taylor at the end of the bench for 5 or 6 shifts after a turnover this is where Julien is a birdbrain!"

    You're leaving out a huge huge differenceB's are sitting in the top 3 or 4 of their conference and think they can make a playoff run while Edmonton is one of the worst teams in the league.  Of course they're going to play young guys like Hall huge minutes because that's all they really have to look forward to this yr.  Winning teams don't have the same luxury.

    Let's compare this to other sports.  Is it easier for a rookie to get playing time on the Pittsburgh Pirates or the Red Sox??

    I don't claim to know more about hockey than you but your analysis is seriously flawed.
      Julien's job is primarily to win games while Renney's is to develop his young team.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    No forward on the Bruins plays 16 minutes a game.  Not Bergeron, not Krejci, and certainly not any of the wings.  If you want to criticize the amout of ice he's been getting, know what the comparables are and ask yourself whose ice he's taking away.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]Sending him the AHL for five games would be a risk - no guarantee he goes down and lights it up, and what would that do to his confidence?  Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    This is all terribly hypothetical, but the idea of sending him down to the AHL for a stint is not so he could light it up -- it is so he could get more playing time.  He could play 15-20 minutes a night there, get top PP time, and all while dealing with the hitting and physical aspects of the pro game.  That would be the appeal, IMO.  Scoring points would be secondary.

    Whether he deserves more ice time or not, 5-6 minutes a night probably isn't best for his development.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    I don't know, Fletch (and I'm not following you around to be a jerk).  If he plays in all situations and doesn't produce, is that good for his development?  If part of the problem is playing against adults, he'll play against adults in the A as well, and some of them will be looking to make a name by levelling the #2 overall.  It's tricky. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:[QUOTE] You're leaving out a huge huge difference .  B's are sitting in the top 3 or 4 of their conference and think they can make a playoff run while Edmonton is one of the worst teams in the league . Of course they're going to play young guys like Hall huge minutes because that's all they really have to look forward to this yr.   Winning teams don't have the same luxury. Let's compare this to other sports.  Is it easier for a rookie to get playing time on the Pittsburgh Pirates or the Red Sox?? Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE]

    Playing on a lousy team last year and having Marty St. Louis as a set up man had to help is correct Tocchet (sp?) had that luxury Stamkos's quicker rise this is true. So I see your point Siesta.

    Me thinks Seguin gets discouraged when he's past over shift afte shift after making a bad drop pass at the blueline. Hall doesn't get benched nor discouraged because he knows he doesn't have to over compensate or be timid on his next shift.

    Which is worse the aggressive driver or the timid driver ? I don't want Seguin to be timid and he is because he knows he's on Tuukka's lap when he slightly bobbles the puck after a pass cause Uncle Fester is looking for excuses to call up wonder center Trent.

    Point is I think Tyler is smart enough to correct himself during a shift instead of having a paranoid coach who doesn't know having Thornton on the ice with less than 10 minutes left in a one goal game is doopid.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    Trouble with Seguin is that he's not quite NHL ready but they don't have many options.  Can't send him to the AHL but returning him to Juniors wouldn't help his development either.  I don't think Julien is handling it as bad as some like to say.  His hands are somewhat tied.  Sometimes I agree that Seguin should get a little longer leash but I don't think he's being ruined.  If he has a good head on his shoulders he'll learn from this and see what he has to work on to be successful.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:[QUOTE]Trouble with Seguin is that he's not quite NHL ready but they don't have many options.  Can't send him to the AHL but returning him to Juniors wouldn't help his development either.  I don't think Julien is handling it as bad as some like to say.   His hands are somewhat tied.  Sometimes I agree that Seguin should get a little longer leash but I don't think he's being ruined.  If he has a good head on his shoulders he'll learn from this and see what he has to work on to be successful.
    Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]What's dumber is Julien not putting Seguin on the PP when he has the best onetimer on the team. How can Seguin get better when he's benched everytime he makes a mistake ? He can't... I watch allot of Edmonton games and Hall makes tons of mistakes but guess what his minutes don't go down. Tom Renney knows Hall is a young kid trying to learn the NHL style but still caters to Hall's strengths speed and transition. Renney lets Hall control the puck through the middle on rushes but doesn't sit Taylor at the end of the bench for 5 or 6 shifts after a turnover this is where Julien is a birdbrain! Julien's mistake is not showing trust in Tyler and is for sure not instilling any confidence so the answer is no Seguin should not be sent down. As far as being sent down because of conditioning I'm sure DRCC will have the answer ILH...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Sandog, I agree with you 100%. I could not have said it any better.

    What Julien is putting Seguin through is worse than what Guy Lafleur went through in Montreal his first couple of years. It is a complete shame! And I'm sure that is has become the joke amongst the players in the league.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    Hey, maybe we should keep talking about Seguin.  Best game he's had in a while last night.  Big goal late in the game and he easily could have had 1 or 2 more.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL : Sandog, I agree with you 100%. I could not have said it any better. What Julien is putting Seguin through is worse than what Guy Lafleur went through in Montreal his first couple of years. It is a complete shame! And I'm sure that is has become the joke amongst the players in the league. Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]

    Was that Scotty Bowman or a different coach ?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL : Was that Scotty Bowman or a different coach ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]


    Yes it was Scotty.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobbyOrrAlumni. Show BobbyOrrAlumni's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL


     It took Marchand 3 years to start producing and contributing the way he is.

     It'll take TS 2 years...but when he starts prodcuing ...LOOKOUT !


     
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from memoody. Show memoody's posts

    Re: Dumb Idea for Seguin and teh AHL

    I like the Stamkos comparison... SS through his first 50 games at the age of 19 two years ago only had 20 points - TS has 17 right now. SS finished with 26 points in his final 29 games in that same year. No need to panic... keep going slow with TS, let him develop, give him his chances in low risk situations and it'll pay dividends come playoff time.
     
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