Expansion?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Expansion?

    I heard Pierre McGuire this morning joining the ranks of 'analysts' who suspect that the owners have an eye on expansion to increase revenues for themselves outside of the CBA dealings.  Apparently an expansion team would cost something in the neighborhood of $300 million, which would not be considered part of HRR and would be divided among the owners alone.  

    It seems more and more likely that the owners will be happy with a compromise on the CBA (where they still get about 7% more).  They may then be looking to generate more income through expansion, instead of quibbling with the players over percentage points or having a longer work stoppage.

    I'm not in favor of more expansion (would prefer relocations), but do other people feel that it will happen?  Soon?  Quebec, Seattle, Markham...??

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    I hope they don't expand, but if they do, I hope they are smart about it when it comes location. Don't put anymore teams in the U.S, put them in Canada.

    I do however think they will have a couple of teams in Europe one day.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    European teams are unrealistic due to travel costs.

     

    I can't imagine any more teams added to an already watered down talent league.  Maybe they move a couple more (looking at you, Phoenix) but creating a new franchise seems counter productive.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    I read somewhere that there was a rumor of two expansion teams going to Hamilton and Quebec City..... not sure if there's any truth to it..... seems kinda strange they would be thinking of expanding when they can't even get a season going.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Whomever gets the arena built 1st will get Phoenix, my money is on Seattle.

    Adding another on top of a move ? Some might say the loser of the Quebec/Seattle battle for the Yotes but I just don't see it especially with Columbus now in trouble as well.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    I think the best scenario would be for Phoenix and another southern market to relocate to Canada, or perhaps Seattle.  I would not favor European expansion now, because I think the goal should be to lessen, not increase, the geographic range of travel.  Especially when big population centers still exist without NHL teams in 'traditional hockey territory'.

    I defend Columbus as a decent hockey town, amid mocking, not just because it is a pretty big population and they sold out for 5-6 years at the beginning.  But it is located close to Detroit, Chicago, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and the Canadian border.  Hockey is pretty popular in Ohio and there are plenty of NCAA teams and minor league teams.  There should be enough interest to sustain bad years, and they have been on a shockingly long bad run.  Some of the southern teams seem like they are on much more shaky ground at being sustainable and competitive.  I was happy Atlanta left and hope for the same in Phoenix.

    Totally agree on the talent being watered down and would oppose expansion for that reason alone.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannyortez3424. Show mannyortez3424's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Does anybody know how expansion teams would work?


    Like would each team have to put up a certain number of players for the new team to be able to select?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Sort of.  Usually tams protect x number of players, and everyone else is fair game.  I can't remember what they did with prospects etc. over a decade ago.

    A two team expansion would put the NHL in a tie with the NFL for most franchises.  That seems insane. 

    The last round of expansion was fuelled by a huge influx of Europeans, especially Russians.  Now, I do think the KHL is going to keep a lot of Russian players in Eastern Europe and Asia.  Not a good idea to expand.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    European teams are unrealistic due to travel costs.

     

    I can't imagine any more teams added to an already watered down talent league.  Maybe they move a couple more (looking at you, Phoenix) but creating a new franchise seems counter productive.



    Your 100% correct with the travel costs. However, I still beleive that one day there will be up to four teams in Europe, a whole division, so when say the Bruins travel there it will be to play at least 4 games against those teams. I think with attendance, merchandising for the new teams and current teams it would make it worth it.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    I think there may be something to all this speculation.  Conventional wisdom suggests the strength of the Cdn dollar can be projected around par, well into the future.  Although it's strength is nothing new, until recently, it was widely accepted that our dollar would settle back to the 80 cent level.  The bean counters know where the money is...and when not competing at a whopping disadvantage, these Canadian markets could suddenly be gold mines. 

    Not sure the on ice product is much of an issue with the league.  If they thought the financials would work, I'd be surprised if didn't jump.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    I defend Columbus as a decent hockey town, amid mocking, not just because it is a pretty big population and they sold out for 5-6 years at the beginning.  But it is located close to Detroit, Chicago, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and the Canadian border.  Hockey is pretty popular in Ohio and there are plenty of NCAA teams and minor league teams.  There should be enough interest to sustain bad years, and they have been on a shockingly long bad run.



    Not attacking the area as not a good hockey town, Smoke Smolinski told me in the early 90s that there would be an NHL team in Ohio. More so Howson and the current finances of the team that has the NHL board of governors worried.

    I'd also throw in families in Ohio being crushed right now by the economy over the last few years.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    European teams are unrealistic due to travel costs.

     

    I can't imagine any more teams added to an already watered down talent league.  Maybe they move a couple more (looking at you, Phoenix) but creating a new franchise seems counter productive.




    Never underestimate stupidity.  Instead of Europe they might settle for Mexico City, Haiti, Bermuda or Jamaica.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    As I said, I'm against expansion but if they do, I'd perfer any team(s) added to be in Canada. I'd rather see the Coyotes re-locate to Canada and perhaps the Panthers and not expand at all and water down the talent level. If they feel the need to have a new team in the U.S why not be the first pro sports league to have one in Vegas?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

      If they feel the need to have a new team in the U.S why not be the first pro sports league to have one in Vegas ?



    For the same reason(s) MLB, NBA and the NFL won't go there...GAMBLING and the effect it would have on sponsers looking to not spend as much on advertising. With David Stern and Roger Goodell along with the other commisioners its' all about image so big corporation will partner with them.

     

    I remember the Runnin Rebels being interviewed while walking through the casinos during their heyday in the early 90s. Then losing to a Duke team they destroyed in the finals the year before. And Oh yah there was that picture of UNLVs staring 5 sitting in a hot tube with "Richie the Fixer" a few months before the Rebs lost a game they should have cruised through.

    It's just too tempting....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    No expansion. The talent is watered down enough.

    Especially in Vegas, economically poor and the ticket base would count on vacationers. No more sun-belt hockey please. A team back in Hartford would be better.

    Relocate Yotes to Seattle or QC and leave CLB alone, just get some apt management in there, the market is a good one (drawing from Cle, Cin, Louisville, Indy, etc...). They just need a winner. They got dicked on Nail.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Columbus is sort of where Ottawa was when they came into the league.  They have high draft picks but aren't getting value for them, and they're getting tweenered in the FA market - they have position needs, so they overpay for the best available guy and still only get him if a team with more resources and more of a shot at the playoffs doesn't swoop in and steal.

    Ottawa drafted 2, 1, 3, 1, 1, 12, 15 in their first 7 drafts.  They drafted Yashin to be the centrepiece of their offense, and he is still the top scoring player drafted in 1992 despite all the time he's missed (only 850 games), and if you look at the list, there weren't many better options for high-scoring players.  Anson Carter is the 8th highest scoring player in that draft....  '93 was a different story with Daigle over Pronger and host of other options, but he was consensus #1.  There were better options than Bonk in '94, but only Ryan Smyth and Jeff Friesen were also first rounders, so they weren't well known options at the top of the draft.  They drafted Berard and then Phillips for position, and neither worked out (they dealt Berard immediately for Redden...) as a #1 D.  They didn't really hit until Hossa.  And that was about the time they started to make hay.

    Columbus's version is Zherdev, Brule, Filatov, Picard, Brassard and Voracek - all top ten picks and only Brassard still there to make a difference.  Different story in that they may have had better options, I guess, but if you compare this to who Quebec got when they were truly awful - Sundin, Ricci, Nolan - and Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Letang...well, it's not the same reward for awfulness.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kivvak. Show kivvak's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    18 teams are losing money. They should be looking at contraction instead. Four divisions of seven teams would be better than the 30 teams they have now. They need to get teams out of underperforming markets not add more. As buisness owners you would think they would undersand this.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ronstar8. Show Ronstar8's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    European teams are unrealistic due to travel costs.

     

    I can't imagine any more teams added to an already watered down talent league.  Maybe they move a couple more (looking at you, Phoenix) but creating a new franchise seems counter productive.




    Never underestimate stupidity.  Instead of Europe they might settle for Mexico City, Haiti, Bermuda or Jamaica.



    Ahem.... I hope that stupidity gives birth to a team in Panama. Maybe the Panama Canals?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Canals wouldn't be catchy enough for today's fans.


    Singular is cool.  The Panama Canal.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Just wondering if anyone heard any names mentioned regarding whom out there has the money to purchase a team?  Be that a consortium or an individual?  Will Balsilie ever be granted a franchise? 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    RHO, Seattle has Don Levin, owner of the Chicago Wolves. He's been mentioned as possibly partnering with Paul Allen, though any deal would have to be worked out with Chris Hansen who is building the arena in Seattle.

    In Quebec Pierre Karl Peladeau, owner of Quebecor, has committed himself to pursuing a team.

    W. Graeme Roustan and Rudy Bratty are the deep-pocketed forces behind GTA Sports and would be the ones to try and bring the NHL to their new arena in Markham.

    Any attempt to get a team to Milwaukee would likely be lead by a consortium overseen by Harris Turer, owner of the Admirals.

    Winnie Johnson-Marquart has been rumoured as interested in the possibility of either an NBA or NHL team in Virginia Beach, and she'd likely partner with her family (siblings and mom) all of whom are in the Forbes 400.

    Las Vegas is currently pursuing a new arena through the Las Vegas Arena Foundation, and while the LVAF is a non-profit it's driving force is Marybel Batjer with Caesar's Entertainment.

    For the other potentials, no one has stepped forward for KC, Basillie has been ruled out by the NHL for Hamilton (and he's had major financial problems in the last year), and I've heard of no interested paty in Hartford.

    As for expansion, I think it's a dead certainty that the NHL wants to go to 32 teams, despite what they may say publicly. I think they showed their hand when they proposed unbalanced conferences for the realignment with two conferences of 15 and two of 14. Gives them an easy means of transitioning to a 32 team league.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    Sorry, I said Batjer was with Caesar's, she's actually with Harrah's (of which Caesar's is a subsidiary). I don't know how it would work having the world's largest gambling organization involved with a professional sports team. The LVAF wants the arena to replace the facility used to host the National Finals Rodeo as well as to be home to NBA/NHL franchises.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to red75's comment:

    RHO, Seattle has Don Levin, owner of the Chicago Wolves. He's been mentioned as possibly partnering with Paul Allen, though any deal would have to be worked out with Chris Hansen who is building the arena in Seattle.

    In Quebec Pierre Karl Peladeau, owner of Quebecor, has committed himself to pursuing a team.

    W. Graeme Roustan and Rudy Bratty are the deep-pocketed forces behind GTA Sports and would be the ones to try and bring the NHL to their new arena in Markham.

    Any attempt to get a team to Milwaukee would likely be lead by a consortium overseen by Harris Turer, owner of the Admirals.

    Winnie Johnson-Marquart has been rumoured as interested in the possibility of either an NBA or NHL team in Virginia Beach, and she'd likely partner with her family (siblings and mom) all of whom are in the Forbes 400.

    Las Vegas is currently pursuing a new arena through the Las Vegas Arena Foundation, and while the LVAF is a non-profit it's driving force is Marybel Batjer with Caesar's Entertainment.

    For the other potentials, no one has stepped forward for KC, Basillie has been ruled out by the NHL for Hamilton (and he's had major financial problems in the last year), and I've heard of no interested paty in Hartford.

    As for expansion, I think it's a dead certainty that the NHL wants to go to 32 teams, despite what they may say publicly. I think they showed their hand when they proposed unbalanced conferences for the realignment with two conferences of 15 and two of 14. Gives them an easy means of transitioning to a 32 team league.




    Thanks for the info, red.  I didn't realize there were so many potentials out there.  I'd heard Bratty on RogerSportsNet THE FAN 590 with Bob McCown when the word came out about a projected Markham arena.  I forgotten about Basilie's recent woes with RIM.  Think I remember reading somewhere that he didn't endear himself with Bettman by jumping the gun on selling tickets in Hamilton despite not being officially granted a franchise for that city.  Didn't he irritated league brass with that move?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Expansion?

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

    In response to red75's comment:

    RHO, Seattle has Don Levin, owner of the Chicago Wolves. He's been mentioned as possibly partnering with Paul Allen, though any deal would have to be worked out with Chris Hansen who is building the arena in Seattle.

    In Quebec Pierre Karl Peladeau, owner of Quebecor, has committed himself to pursuing a team.

    W. Graeme Roustan and Rudy Bratty are the deep-pocketed forces behind GTA Sports and would be the ones to try and bring the NHL to their new arena in Markham.

    Any attempt to get a team to Milwaukee would likely be lead by a consortium overseen by Harris Turer, owner of the Admirals.

    Winnie Johnson-Marquart has been rumoured as interested in the possibility of either an NBA or NHL team in Virginia Beach, and she'd likely partner with her family (siblings and mom) all of whom are in the Forbes 400.

    Las Vegas is currently pursuing a new arena through the Las Vegas Arena Foundation, and while the LVAF is a non-profit it's driving force is Marybel Batjer with Caesar's Entertainment.

    For the other potentials, no one has stepped forward for KC, Basillie has been ruled out by the NHL for Hamilton (and he's had major financial problems in the last year), and I've heard of no interested paty in Hartford.

    As for expansion, I think it's a dead certainty that the NHL wants to go to 32 teams, despite what they may say publicly. I think they showed their hand when they proposed unbalanced conferences for the realignment with two conferences of 15 and two of 14. Gives them an easy means of transitioning to a 32 team league.




    Thanks for the info, red.  I didn't realize there were so many potentials out there.  I'd heard Bratty on RogerSportsNet THE FAN 590 with Bob McCown when the word came out about a projected Markham arena.  I forgotten about Basilie's recent woes with RIM.  Think I remember reading somewhere that he didn't endear himself with Bettman by jumping the gun on selling tickets in Hamilton despite not being officially granted a franchise for that city.  Didn't he irritated league brass with that move?



    Basilie f'd himself & never kissed himself before hand either. The new crapberry looks awesome though!

     
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