Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 11:17 AM EDT
- dezaruchi
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : I'd be shocked if any team takes on the Thomas contract for the purpose of reaching the salary floor. The idea has been beat to death since the draft, and yet nothing has happened with it. Ference will be moved or let go for a cheaper option is my guess. Krejci seems here to stay unless the B's really tank in the goal scoring department out of the gate. Horton's future is solely determined by his ability to take a hit and not go black.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
Nas, that's because the date to be cap compliant hasn't come around yet. The Coyotes are about 10 million below the cap with 22 players signed already. They will eventually be forced to make some sort of moves to reach the cap floor, especially if Doan signs elsewhere.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 11:26 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : Nas, that's because the date to be cap compliant hasn't come around yet. The Coyotes are about 10 million below the cap with 22 players signed already. They will eventually be forced to make some sort of moves to reach the cap floor, especially if Doan signs elsewhere.
Posted by dezaruchi
..........and why would any team take on a contract like that until they know what the parameters will be ? It only makes sense to wait for a new CBA if they were to do it.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 11:41 AM EDT
- dezaruchi
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : ..........and why would any team take on a contract like that until they know what the parameters will be ? It only makes sense to wait for a new CBA if they were to do it.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
I agree. There's no need to be cap compliant yet as there's no guarantee as to what it will even mean. I'm just saying the possibility of a team needing to take on cash to meet the floor could still be there.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 11:57 AM EDT
I want to see Seguin competitive in faceoffs before annointing him our #1... maybe a small part of the game, but definitely a crucial one...especially for a puck possession team...last year TS got spanked repeatedly at the dot
Posted by dc-bruins-fan
........and improve his defensive game. If no improvement in this area he will be overmatched against top line centers in his own end.
I think this is it here. While TS is expected to be the #1 center on this team for many years to come, Bruins mgmt still sees him as the 3rd best center currently on the team and more valuable playing wing. I'd look to him playing the wing the whole year unless DK or Berg get injured. Possibe trade of Krejci next year if TS evolves and Horton/Thomas gone so there will be enough space to bring in a top 2 RW, seems we're all praying for Ryan.
PC is on the record saying teams have inquired about Thomas but nothing will happen until a new CBA & cap floor has been established- (I'm citing an interview on T&R with Chiarelli). If the cap floor is gone, although unlikely, then we are stuck with him. He will be traded if the cap floor is kept and it will be for nothing because the value of reaching the floor for a poor team is equal to the value of his cap space to the B's > Thomas for future considerations.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 6:03 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : Nas, that's because the date to be cap compliant hasn't come around yet. The Coyotes are about 10 million below the cap with 22 players signed already. They will eventually be forced to make some sort of moves to reach the cap floor, especially if Doan signs elsewhere.
Posted by dezaruchi
Or maybe it's because it's never happened before and I will be shocked if it does.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 11:15 PM EDT
- dezaruchi
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : Or maybe it's because it's never happened before and I will be shocked if it does.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
Florida traded for Campbell last year so they'd get to the cap floor. Frankly, I'm a little surprised you've never heard of teams needing to spend a minimum amount in order to be cap compliant.
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/8/6/florida-panthers-2012-13-annual-will-lightning-strike-twice
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/13/2012 11:49 PM EDT
- kelvana33
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : ..........and why would any team take on a contract like that until they know what the parameters will be ? It only makes sense to wait for a new CBA if they were to do it.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
Exactly, and with no sure time set as to when the new CBA will be in place it would not shock me if the Bruins and another team already have an idea of what they will do if/when a deal is struck.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 12:03 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
Campbell played last season.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/01/12/panthers-brain-campbell-an-all-star/Frankly, I'm a little surprised that you hadn't heard that he did.
Thomas won't be playing this season.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=633676Got any examples of teams trading for dead contracts to work around the salary cap floor? No? Probably because it's never happened before.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 12:38 AM EDT
- dezaruchi
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
How many "dead contracts" have there been? Nobody's traded for one because they haven't been available. I also don't remember you specifically asking for an example of traded "dead" money. I specifically said
"the possibility of a team needing to take on cash to meet the cap floor could still be there". I also said the Coyotes will
"eventually be forced to make some sort of moves to reach the cap floor". You then claimed to be unaware of it ever happenning before. I then provided an example of when it did indeed happen before. I'm not sure what your confusion is.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 6:06 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
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That was in response to my statement of, "I'd be shocked if any team takes on the Thomas contract for the purpose of reaching the salary floor. The idea has been beat to death since the draft, and yet nothing has happened with it."
I'm not confused at all.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 9:18 AM EDT
everyone knows the team taking on Thomas' contract won't have to pay him real money right...which saves a team $5M, I think there are a number of teams that will be interested if there is indeed a cap floor, but not before the CBA establishes it.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 10:46 AM EDT
- dezaruchi
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
That was in response to my statement of, "I'd be shocked if any team takes on the Thomas contract for the purpose of reaching the salary floor. The idea has been beat to death since the draft, and yet nothing has happened with it." I'm not confused at all.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
Your reasoning is suspect at best then. Suggesting nobody would possibly take Thomas' contract because "nothing has happened yet" makes no sense to me. As I said already, there is a cap floor and the Coyotes are well below it. They will be forced to make moves to become cap compliant. Those are facts whereas your claim that nobody wants TT's contract because "nothing has happened yet", is pure speculation. I'll take your word that you're not confused although it sure seems like one of us is.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 11:32 AM EDT
In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : Your reasoning is suspect at best then. Suggesting nobody would possibly take Thomas' contract because "nothing has happened yet" makes no sense to me. As I said already, there is a cap floor and the Coyotes are well below it. They will be forced to make moves to become cap compliant. Those are facts whereas your claim that nobody wants TT's contract because "nothing has happened yet", is pure speculation. Posted by dezaruchi
Correct teams are waiting to see where the Cap is set once the new CBA is done. Chiarelli already mentioned this.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 5:58 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : Your reasoning is suspect at best then. Suggesting nobody would possibly take Thomas' contract because "nothing has happened yet" makes no sense to me. As I said already, there is a cap floor and the Coyotes are well below it. They will be forced to make moves to become cap compliant. Those are facts whereas your claim that nobody wants TT's contract because "nothing has happened yet", is pure speculation. I'll take your word that you're not confused although it sure seems like one of us is.
Posted by dezaruchi
We'll see if anyone trades for the dead Thomas contract and then chat about this again. The notion, in my opinion, is completely absurd. We'll see if it happens.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 11:38 PM EDT
- dezaruchi
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : We'll see if anyone trades for the dead Thomas contract and then chat about this again. The notion, in my opinion, is completely absurd. We'll see if it happens.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
My point isn't that someone will definitely trade for TT. My point is the Coyotes are still well below the floor and will have to do something, which leaves acquiring Thomas as a possibility (and nothing more). Cheers to you Sir!
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/14/2012 11:55 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : My point isn't that someone will definitely trade for TT. My point is the Coyotes are still well below the floor and will have to do something, which leaves acquiring Thomas as a possibility (and nothing more). Cheers to you Sir!
Posted by dezaruchi
I agree it's possible. It's also possible that they acquire Chara, Crosby, Ovechkin and Datsyuk.
The probability of that seems as likely to me as them acquiring a dead contract.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 7:12 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : I agree it's possible. It's also possible that they acquire Chara, Crosby, Ovechkin and Datsyuk. The probability of that seems as likely to me as them acquiring a dead contract.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
It's also possible that there's a first time for everything.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 7:50 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : It's also possible that there's a first time for everything.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
It's a common statement, but an incorrect one.
I've never flapped my arms and flown to Saturn.
There is not a first time for that.
People are holding out hope that the B's are going to get a magic $5M in cap space because a team in need of salary will trade for Tim Thomas. It's another one of those ideas that was created out of thin air by someone, along with Nash to the Bruins and Parise to the Bruins, that can make sense when you read it out loud.
However, when reality strikes, it's just not likely to happen. Please don't misunderstand: I really want it to happen. I'd be thrilled if the B's had an extra $5M in cap space this season. I just don't think they'll be getting it by trading a contract of a guy who is not playing this season to a terrible team who needs more on their fake bottom line in order to have the minimum salary required to compete.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 7:57 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : It's a common statement, but an incorrect one. I've never flapped my arms and flown to Saturn. There is not a first time for that. People are holding out hope that the B's are going to get a magic $5M in cap space because a team in need of salary will trade for Tim Thomas. It's another one of those ideas that was created out of thin air by someone, along with Nash to the Bruins and Parise to the Bruins, that can make sense when you read it out loud. However, when reality strikes, it's just not likely to happen. Please don't misunderstand: I really want it to happen. I'd be thrilled if the B's had an extra $5M in cap space this season. I just don't think they'll be getting it by trading a contract of a guy who is not playing this season to a terrible team who needs more on their fake bottom line in order to have the minimum salary required to compete.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
How about another common statement ?
Never say never.
P.S. Safe travels to Saturn.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 8:15 AM EDT
- JWensink
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In Response to
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : It's a common statement, but an incorrect one. I've never flapped my arms and flown to Saturn. There is not a first time for that. People are holding out hope that the B's are going to get a magic $5M in cap space because a team in need of salary will trade for Tim Thomas. It's another one of those ideas that was created out of thin air by someone, along with Nash to the Bruins and Parise to the Bruins, that can make sense when you read it out loud. However, when reality strikes, it's just not likely to happen. Please don't misunderstand: I really want it to happen. I'd be thrilled if the B's had an extra $5M in cap space this season. I just don't think they'll be getting it by trading a contract of a guy who is not playing this season to a terrible team who needs more on their fake bottom line in order to have the minimum salary required to compete.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
"I've never flapped my arms and flown to Saturn"
How bout Uranus?
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 8:35 AM EDT
- OatesCam
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A player not playing with a cap hit that still counts has never been traded to a team below the floor to reach the floor. There has also never been an opportunity for it to happen before, so saying it won't happen because it has never happened is flawed logic. It's new territory. We have no idea if a salary basement team will take a no-real-dollars contract on because they have never had the opportunity before. Chiarelli has said a handful of teams have already inquired about Thomas, so we know there is some interest. No team is going to take it on until the new CBA is signed because the rules on over 35's may change, as well as the rules on the salary floor. When the new CBA is signed we'll find out if moving Thomas's cap hit is a real possibility. Of course, the 35+ rule may be tossed out as well, so it may be a non-issue. Again, a reason why there won't be any movement on Thomas until the new CBA.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 9:25 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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Re: Final Year of their current contracts.:
In Response to Re: Final Year of their current contracts. : "I've never flapped my arms and flown to Saturn" How bout Uranus?
Posted by JWensink
I believe those were actually flying monkeys.
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 10:03 AM EDT
- Bookboy007
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It hasn't happened in hockey, but there are parallels with what happens frequently in the NBA - teams trade real players for "expiring contracts" to manage their cap issues and so free up room to pursue the players they really want. The warm bodies that go with those expiring contracts are an afterthought.
If nothing changes as a result of the CBA, and the players are proposing no changes to the contracting system, then there's a chance if the conditions are right - namely is there a team that needs to find a way to get to a cap floor (there may not be one, or it may not be as high); are there players available for trade or as FAs who would improve that team competitively; is the idea of acquiring cap space for no real dollars something this team needs?
There's one part of this no one has touched on, at least that I've seen. The team that hold's Thomas's contract has the option to push it for one year because Thomas isn't honouring the year. If you have beaucoup cap room or a need to get to the cap floor now, and you like the odds that Thomas can come back and be an Olympic calibre goalie, you could acquire him today with the intent to try and play him in 2013-14 rather than wait for Boston to decline the option to push his contract then compete with other teams for his services. (To be clear, I'm not sure there will be a gold rush if TT becomes a UFA on July 1, but if you're a team that thinks he's a viable option, you probably would be concerned that others share that opinion.)
Re: Final Year of their current contracts.
posted at 8/15/2012 10:45 AM EDT
I wouldn't at all be surprised if TT wants to come back sometime before the trade deadline. He may have re-energized himself by then and coming back would both give him a better shot at the 2014 Olympics and burn off the last year of his contract (which is only paying him 3M/year).
A team with lots of cap room could acquire him before the season for practically nothing and then potentially trade him for something more (again, once TT makes it clear he wants to play) to a team with goaltenders issues at or near the trade deadline. IF TT sits the whole year the team wouldn't lose anything because they didn't need the cap room.
