Fire All Coaches

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrHulot. Show MrHulot's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to ipotnyc's comment:

    Attitude is everything, imo. They found a way to win it all in 2011 because of the embarassment of 2010, more than any arrows CJ was drawing up.  That was the players.  

    2012? 1st round exit from a Caps team that threw CJ hockey right back at them.  



    Bravo!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrHulot. Show MrHulot's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    And please don't bother trying to justify Clueless Claude's latest "inspirational stroke of genius" (demoting Tyler Seguin to the third line). To me this coach seems to bear a grudge against the type of players who exposed him as a fourth-rate wanna-be NHL defenseman in his younger days.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    No secret CJ has an affinity for muckers/grinders, guys that have to travel the tough road to reach the NHL and a defense 1st mentality.  Look at what he is doing by demoting Seguin to the 3rd-line.  This move does not happen in a vacuum, it means that Campbell plays on the 2nd-line with Jagr/Marchand. This is Gregory Campbell, he of the 2-5-7 line that has not scored a goal in 21 games.  I like Campbell a ton, but no business in the top-6.

     

    Campbell on the PP or end of game situations?  Book says it's due to his puck retrieval skills?  Those skills must be elite to bump top-6 guys off their spot, not to mention that there are several two-way guys in the top-6 that retrieve pucks well.  Over-thinking and over-coaching.

     

    Merlot line playing in the late game situations, leading or trailing.  These guys don't belong out there, especially when chasing.  To his credit, CJ has done more stapling of ST's azz to the bench lately, but still put him out there last game.

     

    Seidenberg on the PP?  Why?  This has picked up over the past few weeks after CJ moved away from it early in the year.

     

    Hamilton usage?  PP always looks better when he is on the ice, so why isn't he out there more often?  End of game situations?  If the B’s are chasing late in the game, I want to see a ton of Hamilton.  Nope, more Seidenberg, more Ference.

     

    Remember the Chris Bourque saga?  Why was this guy given such opportunity?  18gp, manning the point on the PP?  When he was waived, CJ calls it a management decision not a coaching decision?

     

    Book says Spooner got a chance and did squat.  He played 4 games and only once played over 9 minutes in the game.  Is that really a chance?  Certainly not the chance that CB got.

     

    Maybe all of this can be explained away as the mysterious or bizarre, but the coach is accountable for these decisions IMO. 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishfinger. Show fishfinger's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    It doesn't look like they're being coached at all.  I don't see anything clicking at all.

    What didn't he like about Seguin playing center?

    OK, so Seguin is a problem at center.

    So Peverly - who's been playing awful - gets 'rewarded' by going to the 2nd line.

    No 'punishment' for Seguin.

    Jagr who has been playing well gets demoted to 3rd line.

     

     

    Explain this to me.  I'm open minded.  Make sense of this to me.



    You can't...I was there and it sucked.

    Jagr playing with Peverly and Campbell might as well have kept draft pick!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    Troubling statements to Vega today by Chairman Julien;

     

    "It's really not about Jags" ( a neat feat, resenting him AND using his nickname!);

     

    "We're not going to build the team around him"  (ok, but how about bulding a line around him?)

     

    Instructing Seguin not to talk to the Press?!

     


    The Ego Has Landed, I fear.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    This is where it goes around in circles, Crowls.  NAS mentions accountability.  Seguin has not shown much recently - outside of his one game massive shot total - so he's being held accountable.  I see the two currents of complaint - that the top players don't get enough ice time and that Julien should hold under-performing players accountable - as contradictory.  They aren't scoring, so they aren't earning more ice time.  And the Bruins have won at least two games this year because the fourth line has had enough ice to score a goal or two that led to the win when the top lines were silent.  Campbell is one of the few guys playing both fast and smart - he just has no talent.  So he gets a chance to move up.  Not a question of elite skill as much as that he's one of the guys giving more effort than the rest.  Again, isn't that what coaches should do to get the message across to their teams - guys who work hard will get rewarded with more ice?  Guys who are floating get demoted?

    Hamilton will be a great defenseman, and yeah, when they need a goal I would prefer they play the crap out of him.  But he's a risk.  Risk-reward, I guess.  Seidenberg simply gets his shot to the net.  That's the only reason he's there.  And I think that's a good enough reason given the lack of offense from any other D than Chara and Hamilton, and how generally ineffective the forwards have been playing that spot. 

    Fourth line, again, we can argue about that line's execution, but isn't the point of that line usually to change or generate momentum?  Up the tempo?  Get a faceoff in the offensive zone?  That's valuable with 2 minutes left when you want to run the first, second, first to close the game, isn't it?

    They left a spot open for a prospect by not re-signing Pouliot.  Bourque got first shot.  He failed.  Caron has had the second shot, but he, too, is a failure.  CJ said the reason Spooner didn't play more was that they want him to play the top 6 role, not the bottom 6 where he'll be playing against more grinding opponents.  When Krejci came back, he went back down.  He had enough of a chance to show that he's not ready  to be a third liner.

    You can not like the option CJ chooses, but I think you have to look at what other choices were truly available and think the scenarios through with clear eyes. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    "You can not like the option CJ chooses, but I think you have to look at what other choices were truly available and think the scenarios through with clear eyes."

     

     All true, which is why the GM'S performance at the trade deadline was a disgrace -

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    I believe coaches have a shelf life with any given team. Perhaps CJ's tenure here is getting stale and reaching its expiration date.

    I think CJ is an excellent coach but there comes a time where a coach and his current group of players aren't the best fit. There's enough talent on this team to make a run at the Cup but they clearly are underperforming. Maybe a shake-up in personnel alters the mix enough to get things back on track but adding Jagr and the Daug isn't enough apparently. Woul the team respond differently to a new coach? It would have to be somebody pretty respected and dynamic to make a quick turnaround. Short of Neely stepping behind the bench I have no idea who that would be. I would be shocked if they fired CJ in season. If they flame out in the first round again I think there is serious discussion in the front office about replacing CJ. They'll be some serious attempts to shake-up the roster I bet too but that's a different thread.

    Love this thread....the 2 guys whose hockey opinions I respect the most on this board are bookboy and NAS and they've both made great points on different sides of the argument. Others have chimed in with great stuff too. Best thread in weeks!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    The first part of your post 'bookboy' is over-generous I think; it suggests a method or design by Julien. I think, the reason everyone's up-in-arms here is because Julien, in recent games, has invited us to be - by showing precisely the opposite - a lack of method or design. That's when the likes of us usually flood in, when and where we see an opening. Bergeron gets injured and Claude is juggling lines faster than they can play the shifts. We apologize for him by claiming things he isn't or hasn't - 'he's holding Seguin to a higher standard' - 'he's rewarding Campbell for speed and intelligence.' He could also be flailing. 

     

    After every Trade Deadline the focus turns to the Coach, there is nothing more for the GM to do, the heat gets turned up - 'It's the coach's team now!' 'He has the tools, lets see what he does with them!' Yes, Julien had the great misfortune of having the best centreman in the game today, subtracted from his line-up at the Trade Deadline. But it needn't throw him and the team into chaos.

     

    Julien has reacted by mis-casting everyone from the bottom, up. Giving everyone roles that are above, beneath or strange to them - everyone except Thornton.

     

    Julien should, at least, take a crack at mis-casting everyone from the top down

     

    Jaromir Jagr was a great 'get' at the Trade Deadline. He leads the Bruins in goals. He should be at least TRIED with Krejci. My belief is that the 'how' to configure the rest of the lines will go and flow from there. Right now, the 'top' of the team; Lucic/Krejci/Horton (and afterall, Julien referred to them as his 'best line' last game) is not setting 'the standard'. Julien needs to remake the 'Top' of his team and hope for the appropriate trickle down effect.

     

    Perhaps Julien feels (in his reward system) that Jagr hasn't earned 'the top' and he worries too much about 'the message' that might send (and he does seem troublesomely a little too-worried about 'the  message' lately), but Julien doesn't have the luxury of worrying about such things right now. This team is folding to the occasion of the oncoming Playoffs.

     

    If Julien were to start at the top and work down, then no one (not just Seguin) would be immune to demotion. THAT would be holding EVERYONE to a higher standard. THAT would be coaching. THAT would leave us little to say, less to complain about and more importantly we wouldn't have to worry so much about the psyche of the Coach.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    "You can not like the option CJ chooses, but I think you have to look at what other choices were truly available and think the scenarios through with clear eyes."

     

     All true, which is why the GM'S performance at the trade deadline was a disgrace -




    Same thinking applies, though, JW.  You can not like what Chiarelli came up with - I have a strange feeling we'll be happier with Jagr than we would have been with Iginla - but the options were limited from what I saw.  Clowe has certainly worked out for the Rangers, I guess, but I understood why they didn't go full throttle for him.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Win three of four, lose a one goal game to the Scabs on two fluke goals, one kicked in by a rookie injury fill-in who probably gets replaced by a veteran in the next week: Fire the Coach.

    Nobody is going to say with a straight face that they played well last night, and that PP was the most bizarre thing I've seen in a long time.  But is it Julien's fault, or Ward's fault, that when Lucic makes a pass from behind the net to a guy in perfect position to bury the equalizer, he chooses to cycle the puck back to the point rather than shoot?  They kept looking for pretty rather than effective.  I guarantee you that is not what Ward is coaching them to do.

    I have no patience for fire the coach when the players are squeezing the stick too tightly, nor do I buy for one second that Thomas made an average system look good.  We'll see what happens when he plays for the Isles, and the results will be tainted by the fact that he'll be coming back after a year, but there's a better than average chance the system and Thomas were made for each other - the system leads to long shots and aims to minimize lateral passes and rebound opportunities.  Thomas likes to come out and challenge aggressively, then, on the occasions where the D drops the ball on the lateral passes or rebounds, make athletic plays to recover.  Perfect fit.

    The players are thinking. That's never a good idea.  Firing Julien and trying to install a new system at this point doesn't get them to stop thinking.



    Ward doesn't know pretty.

    There is a good dialog in this thread - the pros and cons of firing the coaches...but I have a serious question about (most) sports reporters.

    Why aren't they asking the tough questions to the coach AND players?

    Are they afraid of being Tortorella-ized and told to ."..get the F--- outta here then Brooksy" ?

    This has been a pet peeve of mine for a while now. Coaches and players never seem to be asked to be held accountable for specific decisions in a game...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    Nobody is going to say with a straight face that they played well last night, and that PP was the most bizarre thing I've seen in a long time.  But is it Julien's fault, or Ward's fault, that when Lucic makes a pass from behind the net to a guy in perfect position to bury the equalizer, he chooses to cycle the puck back to the point rather than shoot?  They kept looking for pretty rather than effective.  I guarantee you that is not what Ward is coaching them to do.

    "Puck possession.  Don't take "just any" shot.  You have almost a full minute.  You only need one goal.  Do not give it up.  Move it around until it's an empty net.  Plenty of time.  Six on four.  One shot ties it.  Keep possession."

     

    I can imagine something like that being said.



    I had the distinct thought during that last PP that 'This looks a lot like a basketball game where a team is working the game clock down to 2 seconds to take the final shot that ties the game'...unfortunately a hockey net is not left unattended. Unbelievable.

    Price must have thought this was the easiest last minute PK he's ever had.

    Anyway, nothing like some Hurricane action(sans Ward) to help turn it around. Hope they don't make Peters look like the second coming of Peeters.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    gord, I have no idea what Julien is thinking.  Any time you have to say you can imagine conversations that would make sense of something that seemed bizarre, well, you're in left field.  But I do think there's a lot of people not liking what they're seeing and assuming that there is no possible logic under which you would make that decision.  If anything, Claude over-thinks - a point someone else has made here - so I find it easier to believe he is making deliberate choices based on reasons we might not see and generally don't like. 

    For example, putting Jagr with Krejci disrupts the only line that hasn't been affected by injuries, and they have been the best line over the last 5 games.  Jagr has scored 3 more goals than Horton, and he was playing more than a minute per game more than Horton. Does putting Jagr with Krejci get you that much further ahead if that line continues to do what it has been doing before the deadline (Horton with a run of goals, Lucic playing better, Krejci making a run at Bergeron for the team scoring lead...)?  You're hoping DK and JJ click, and that Horton continues to score at the same rate even playing with someone else. Is it that much better as a strategy than seeing what Jagr can do on the third line?  Would the third line be any better with Horton than it was with Jagr?  Is there a net benefit there?  I don't know.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    WtL - that will help me clarify a bit.  If it sounds like I'm defending Julien, it's because I don't necessarily believe this team has the talent to make a run at the Cup in some abstract way.  They do when it's 20 guys all going at the same time and playing the way they're coached to play (defend to get the puck, but attack when you have it).  If we're talking pieces on paper, they don't have the clutch goal-scorer, the top-end first line centre, the energy line components, the depth of talent on the blue-line.  They need a system like this to make them more than the sum.  Or they need a massive roster overhaul to redistribute the cash they've committed.  The problem is, it would have to be massive, and I'm not sure it would be successful in anything like the short term.

    So I don't think cashiering the coach whose system has shown what this group can do when they all pull in the same direction is likely to make things better without a corresponding talent transplant.

    As for your last paragraph, it makes me sad for you. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    I guess I believe in magic, bookboy. If Claude is playing hunches (and he is, they all do) and I'm Claude, I'm playing this hunch; that on my team that is starved for goals, I'm trying two guys together, two guys who played together on the Czech National team, both very talented, one guy who had the other's poster on his boyhood bedroom wall. If I'm Claude, I'm playing this hunch.

    I'm not worried as much about production from my Third Line with or without Nathan Horton - there's been none from that line all year.

    I'm doing a re-boot starting with the so-called #1 Line, if for no other reason than because I think magic can be contagious, and the rest of the team needs to see some. It has to start somewhere.

    Why trust one hunch and not another

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    Well, I guess there's a difference in my head between saying you have a hunch and saying Claude should lose his job because he doesn't have the same hunch.  Or doesn't trust it.  Or wants to test drive Jagr for a few games before deciding what to do.

    I don't disagree that putting Jagr with Krejci makes some sense.  Too much, in fact, to suggest that Julien hasn't thought about it and chosen to keep it in his back pocket.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Well, I guess there's a difference in my head between saying you have a hunch and saying Claude should lose his job because he doesn't have the same hunch.  Or doesn't trust it.  Or wants to test drive Jagr for a few games before deciding what to do.

    I don't disagree that putting Jagr with Krejci makes some sense.  Too much, in fact, to suggest that Julien hasn't thought about it and chosen to keep it in his back pocket.



    This is the last ace CJ has to play and i think he's waiting to see if all else fails. Its not like the B's are fighting for a playoff spot. When and if the B's get a healthy roster we might finally see how everyone slots in. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    .  They need a system like this to make them more than the sum.  Or they need a massive roster overhaul to redistribute the cash they've committed.  The problem is, it would have to be massive, and I'm not sure it would be successful in anything like the short term.

    So I don't think cashiering the coach whose system has shown what this group can do when they all pull in the same direction is likely to make things better without a corresponding talent transplant.

    As for your last paragraph, it makes me sad for you. 




    I don't think there is a quick fix to turn this team around. Giving the boot to CJ and bringing in somebody else, even just interim, to kick butt may give the team a small and temporary boost that will make us feel better but won't alter what the team is or the likely end result for this season.  I think they need to rebuild as dumb as that sounds for a team that is 6th place in the entire NHL. It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent. A serious roster shake-up is in order and perhaps a different coach for that team as well. All this should happen after this season and I hope it does.

    I feel sorry for me too...clearly my judgement is questionable at best :P

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

     

     


    I don't think there is a quick fix to turn this team around. Giving the boot to CJ and bringing in somebody else, even just interim, to kick butt may give the team a small and temporary boost that will make us feel better but won't alter what the team is or the likely end result for this season.  I think they need to rebuild as dumb as that sounds for a team that is 6th place in the entire NHL. It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent. A serious roster shake-up is in order and perhaps a different coach for that team as well. All this should happen after this season and I hope it does.

     

    I feel sorry for me too...clearly my judgement is questionable at best :P

     



     

    "It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent."

    Which is EXACTLY what it looks like when it is not being coached effectively.

    Good coaches, like good cooks can figure out a way to put ingredients together and have it turn out good.  Bad cooks blame their igredients.  Bad carpenters blame their tools.  This is an NHL coach with good tools and good ingredients and what's coming out isn't good

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

    I don't think there is a quick fix to turn this team around. Giving the boot to CJ and bringing in somebody else, even just interim, to kick butt may give the team a small and temporary boost that will make us feel better but won't alter what the team is or the likely end result for this season.  I think they need to rebuild as dumb as that sounds for a team that is 6th place in the entire NHL. It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent. A serious roster shake-up is in order and perhaps a different coach for that team as well. All this should happen after this season and I hope it does.

     

    I feel sorry for me too...clearly my judgement is questionable at best :P

     

    "It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent."

    Which is EXACTLY what it looks like when it is not being coached effectively.

    Good coaches, like good cooks can figure out a way to put ingredients together and have it turn out good.  Bad cooks blame their igredients.  Bad carpenters blame their tools.  This is an NHL coach with good tools and good ingredients and what's coming out isn't good



    I like CJ as a coach but if I was going to find fault with him it's his intractability. I don't think he has the ability, or more likely willingness, to adapt his coaching to the personnel and situation when needed. Maybe I'm wrong and he's tried but his players don't respond. Either way, the shake-up needs to happen.

    As is usually the case, the answer is never simple and there is fault to be found in the coach, the players, and the make up of the roster which is PC's doing.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

     

     


    I don't think there is a quick fix to turn this team around. Giving the boot to CJ and bringing in somebody else, even just interim, to kick butt may give the team a small and temporary boost that will make us feel better but won't alter what the team is or the likely end result for this season.  I think they need to rebuild as dumb as that sounds for a team that is 6th place in the entire NHL. It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent. A serious roster shake-up is in order and perhaps a different coach for that team as well. All this should happen after this season and I hope it does.

     

    I feel sorry for me too...clearly my judgement is questionable at best :P

     



     

    "It's not a lack of talent, just the wrong combination of talent."

    Which is EXACTLY what it looks like when it is not being coached effectively.

    Good coaches, like good cooks can figure out a way to put ingredients together and have it turn out good.  Bad cooks blame their igredients.  Bad carpenters blame their tools.  This is an NHL coach with good tools and good ingredients and what's coming out isn't good



    I guess the question here is timing Hab.  Great cooks don't always serve award winning dishes.

    I think everyone agree's whats "coming out' now isn't great.  Harpooning CJ should mean, the team feels confident they can do better.  NOW.
    I don't think the most aggressive "can Julian" supporter would put the odds above 50%.  Those are terrible odds.

    Here's why.  If the team goes down in the first round, "as is".  You can fire the coach.  No problems on the horizon.

    Fire the coach now, and go out in the first round(which is always a very distinct possibility), then the natives go bananas because you did.  Therefore, it looks all of a sudden, like the GM should be fired for making such a dumb move(one that cost the owner plenty because of the money you're still paying the ex coach).

    Option A.....zero risk.

    Option B.....tactical suicide

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to stevegm's comment:



    I guess the question here is timing Hab.  Great cooks don't always serve award winning dishes.

     

    I think everyone agree's whats "coming out' now isn't great.  Harpooning CJ should mean, the team feels confident they can do better.  NOW.
    I don't think the most aggressive "can Julian" supporter would put the odds above 50%.  Those are terrible odds.

    Here's why.  If the team goes down in the first round, "as is".  You can fire the coach.  No problems on the horizon.

    Fire the coach now, and go out in the first round(which is always a very distinct possibility), then the natives go bananas because you did.  Therefore, it looks all of a sudden, like the GM should be fired for making such a dumb move(one that cost the owner plenty because of the money you're still paying the ex coach).

    Option A.....zero risk.

    Option B.....tactical suicide

     




    Oh I agree, might as well finish out the season with him.  And I hope he can regain his faculties and adjust because right now he's clearly on the ropes and not sure where he is.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    My, my, my someone got really cocky last night and decided to start a call out thread. I new the tranquility wouldn't last. Since we have to endure last nights 5th reminder that one is always right, mine as well resurect another famous knee jerk.

    "We are all part of the same hypocrisy Senator"

    Spin it!



     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    My, my, my someone got really cocky last night and decided to start a call out thread. I new the tranquility wouldn't last. Since we have to endure last nights 5th reminder that one is always right, mine as well resurect another famous knee jerk.

    "We are all part of the same hypocrisy Senator"

    Spin it!



    This would be comical and effective if I hadn't posted references to it many, many times already.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Fire All Coaches

     

     

     

     

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