Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    Imagine Espo with his 45sec shifts every 4th shift, Cj would not have made it 10 games back then, playing Orr 24 instead of his 40mins.  You play your better players more often and you will win more, game in the bag you can rest them when required, but the stars would have raised a stink.

    Yeah Grets you have 3 points no need to play the 3rd and score 7 or 8 points against this mickey mouse team (NJ).

    Lafleur no double shifting tonight, we play again tomorrow.

      

    I understand how frustrating losing is....but this team doesn't have an Esposito, or an Orr.  It doesn't have a Johnny Bucyk, or a Ken Hodge, or a Wayne Cashman near the top of the scoring sheets either.

    There are many reasons why a coach would start the game with the 4th line.  You shouldn't be so critical just because you can't figure those things out.

    Expectation is the real problem here.  The B's are just another one of the original 30.  When they have their mojo, they can possibly beat anyone.  When they aren't incredibly hungry, they're nothing more than average.  We've seen this...from basically this same bunch for about 4  years now.  What's so surprising, and who is the white knight that's gonna change that all of a sudden.  They're not a powerhouse...never were, and there really are none anyway.  Play at the top of your game, you'll probably win.  Don't and you'll probably lose.  There are lots of exceptions, but the long haul always balances the scales.

    Wasn't Julians fault the team layed down vs Philadelphia.  He doesn't deserve the credit for scoring that game 7 goal against Montreal a year later either,  that prevented another hissy fit from Boston sports fans.  Wasn't CJ's fault the Caps scored in game 7 last year, and he really didn't do a lot for Rasks shut out yesterday either.

    Today, big league teams are coached by committee.  Giving Julien too much praise...or too much criticism, is just confusing probable cause.

     




    Are you really this dense, as in your last 4 posts.

     

     

    Yes we would all like a win every night, but we know that is not possible.  What is missing is cj's actions that would make any sense to all others, that are not yourself and cj.  C'mon starting the 4th line, it must be so you can rest your top lines for the last minute of play, oh wait the 4th line is the top line as noted by starting them, so lets bring them back on for the last minute.

    I agree that Cj is probably the best defensive coach in the league (i have stated this many times) but his thought processes at many times of the game, just simply exasparate me and anyone with hockey knowledge.

    His use of the 4th line is the mainstay- 1-start the game with them 2-play them late in close scored games(up or down a goal) 3-play them after TV timeouts when all are thoroughly rested 4-use of ST at any time 5-Use of either Pail or Camp on first line 6-Panda

    Cj will be here for a couple of more years, of that I have no doubt, he can't skate for the players, hit for the players or score for the players, but he does need to utilize the better players more, not more of the skating clown.

    B's won their last 2 cups 2 years apart with 2 different coaches.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I guess.   You really should give up this 4th line business,...you're sounding kinda dense too.

    And..  those two Bruins cups you're talking about...the only reason there were two different coaches, is because the first one quit.  Ya kind of missed the mark on that comment too.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    All I know is pre-Julien...The pathetic Dave Lewis, and some of the worst B's hockey I've ever seen...Julien turned the team around with a system as Chiarelli added the pieces to the puzzle. B's Hockey is fantastic fun to watch and it wasn't like that the few years prior to Claude taking over. It was dreadful hockey. I feel that if Julien ever is fired, or leaves, the team will suffer no matter who takes over. He developed a new aura to B's Hockey, one that is about accountability, one that forces the players to play at a high level...or be benched. End of story. Goalies too. I love Claude, and I have been a fan of his since I watched his very first B's team. He did a great job of turning the team from horrid to successful.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    All I know is pre-Julien...The pathetic Dave Lewis, and some of the worst B's hockey I've ever seen...Julien turned the team around with a system as Chiarelli added the pieces to the puzzle. B's Hockey is fantastic fun to watch and it wasn't like that the few years prior to Claude taking over. It was dreadful hockey. I feel that if Julien ever is fired, or leaves, the team will suffer no matter who takes over. He developed a new aura to B's Hockey, one that is about accountability, one that forces the players to play at a high level...or be benched. End of story. Goalies too. I love Claude, and I have been a fan of his since I watched his very first B's team. He did a great job of turning the team from horrid to successful.




    Amen to that!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrrGOAT2. Show No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

                Total    last 10           last 10 games  136  283

    Camp 13:42        17:57       15:42 14:38 18:32 19:24 22:00 21:12 15:29 19:31 13:53 18:06

    Pail     12:41         14:30      14:14 14:09 13:24 11:06 12:54 14:19 15:08 17:50 14:52 12:47

    B's record 5-4-1

    Seg 17:03           16:05       16:02 17:24 14:49 16:11 15:50 14:14 14:56 16:15 19:08 16:04

    March 17:04        16:08       15:29 16:25 15:30                       8:25 16:08 15:40  16:22 17:01

     

    Camp Pail mins up, top 2 goal scorers mins down

    I'll take Seg and March any time

     

    Next dipshiite comment

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's comment:

    Camp Pail mins up, top 2 goal scorers mins down

    I'll take Seg and March any time

     

    Next dipshiite comment



    Lol ok bro, I just gave you TOI for the year and you gave me TOI for 10 games... and whose statistics are more valid? Learn to statistic.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    Before things get too out of hand, may I recommend switching to even-strength TOI? 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrrGOAT2. Show No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:

    In response to No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's comment:

     

    Camp Pail mins up, top 2 goal scorers mins down

    I'll take Seg and March any time

     

    Next dipshiite comment

     



     

    Lol ok bro, I just gave you TOI for the year and you gave me TOI for 10 games... and whose statistics are more valid? Learn to statistic.




    Also note the record for 10 games and then the year.  Those 10 games skew the lower mins up and the higher mins down, don't have time to give you the full year difference, but ye should be able to figure that one.  i love Pail and Camp's game as 4th liners, and 4th liners mins just give mins to those that can handle em and make better use of them.

    Fly day tomorrow so will try to discuss with u later.  Hopefully land in time to see a big B's win.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    RWTK could coach this talented roster and have them in the playoffs.  It has all world talent.  This isnt florida.   TT now Rask.  Chara And Bergie.  I really dont need to go further.  This team has had numerous guys with 10 plus goals since 2011. this is not a lottery pick team.  Its stacked.  Im not giving credit to CJ for having a young star studded lineup.  Hes won a cup and im grateful.  But to think this team would tank without him behind the bench isnt gonna happen.  I like that he has his teams play a responsible system.  But i also think it holds guys back as well.  One example is Seguin.  I expected him to be further advanced by now.  Im not saying that is CJs fault, but i certainly question it.  How can he have a team with so many talented offensive guys and have an absolute dud of a pp.  ward is at fault but thats his staff.  Any team with a solid goalie, chara and bergie is gonna be good on the pk.  

    If Boston goes out early again i think they make a change.  Coaches are hired to be fired.   I would have no issue with a new coaching staff   

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    Heck no, you don't fire a guy that has been at the helm of a Cup win and puts the team in position in those other years.  I know people knock him or downplay the Cup win due to Thomas, game 7 wins, the Ryder save, etc... but if you do that, you also have to say he has also been a victim of severe bad luck when they lost DK right as they were about to beat Philly the previous year.  Who knows how far that team would have gone had they not lost DK.

    The point is that in this NHL, you usually need a hot goalie, luck, a few hot players, and health to win the Cup.  Many of those factors are out of the control of any coach.   All you can ask is to put your team in a position to do that each year.  According to all of the Cup winners of the last 20 years(exception last year), that position is mostly between the 1st and 4th seed of your respective Conference during the regular season.  CJ has been one of the best coaches in the league at getting the B's to that point in his tenure.  

    I don't want Brian Rolston's sister to be the next Bruins coach, I want CJ.  

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    RWTK could coach this talented roster and have them in the playoffs.  It has all world talent.  This isnt florida.   TT now Rask.  Chara And Bergie.  I really dont need to go further.  This team has had numerous guys with 10 plus goals since 2011. this is not a lottery pick team.  Its stacked.  Im not giving credit to CJ for having a young star studded lineup.  Hes won a cup and im grateful.  But to think this team would tank without him behind the bench isnt gonna happen.  I like that he has his teams play a responsible system.  But i also think it holds guys back as well.  One example is Seguin.  I expected him to be further advanced by now.  Im not saying that is CJs fault, but i certainly question it.  How can he have a team with so many talented offensive guys and have an absolute dud of a pp.  ward is at fault but thats his staff.  Any team with a solid goalie, chara and bergie is gonna be good on the pk.  

    If Boston goes out early again i think they make a change.  Coaches are hired to be fired.   I would have no issue with a new coaching staff   

     


    I don't really see all of this offense.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's comment:

                Total    last 10           last 10 games  136  283

    Camp 13:42        17:57       15:42 14:38 18:32 19:24 22:00 21:12 15:29 19:31 13:53 18:06

    Pail     12:41         14:30      14:14 14:09 13:24 11:06 12:54 14:19 15:08 17:50 14:52 12:47

    B's record 5-4-1

    Seg 17:03           16:05       16:02 17:24 14:49 16:11 15:50 14:14 14:56 16:15 19:08 16:04

    March 17:04        16:08       15:29 16:25 15:30                       8:25 16:08 15:40  16:22 17:01

     

    Camp Pail mins up, top 2 goal scorers mins down

    I'll take Seg and March any time

     

    Next dipshiite comment



    I'll take a stab at that next dipshite comment by suggesting you're missing the obvious again Goat.  The Bruins have "never" ever played through a schedule as rigorous as March and April of this year.  It's absolutely unheard of.  Basically, a game every other day.  If you want your big guns fresh, and ready to go, when the big season(playoffs)starts, you don't wear them out in meaningless games leading up to that point.

    The only way to do that...is redistribute some minutes.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:

    So the latest is CJ doesn't play his best players the correct amount of time...

    Bergeron 19:15

    Krejci 18:42

    Marchand 17:04

    Lucic 17:03

    Seguin 17:03

    Paille 12:41

    Campbell 13:42

    Others...

    Malkin 19:44

    Toews 19:33

    H. Sedin 19:49

    Corey Perry 19:16

    Datsyuk 20:14

    Next argument...




     

    The team's leading goal scorers are just over the 17 minute mark.  If they were just over the 20 minute mark, like many top players, they'd have an extra three minutes on the ice a game.  In this shortened season, that's an extra 144 minutes, or 8.4 more games at 17 minutes per game.

    That's significant.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    "getting rid of a coach who's winning but not winning the Cup every year in favour of an unknown who may not fit the personnel is flailing."

     

    Who wants an unkown for Julien ?




    Didn't mean an unknown in the sense of some guy coaching midget in Gimli so much as you don't know how a new coach is going to work with the existing roster.  Some people have picked their poison, though for the most part, the guys being mentioned are employed.  But even then, you just don't know how the team will mesh with the system.

    shupe - a coach can't win with your arguments, ever.  Develop young players in order to put together a Cup calibre roster (Krejci, Lucic, Seguin, Marchand, McQuaid, Boychuk, and yes, Kessel all became NHL players on CJ's watch), you get no credit.  Don't play the rookies and young players, still win, and you're stubborn.  If you think CJ is responsible for the plateau in Seguin's development , then you can't turn around and say guys like Marchand or McQuaid or Lucic would necessarily have become what they've become under any coach - or RwtK. 

    Seguin might remind you of JT Superstar, who, except for that one 101 point season, settled in to the 68-73 point range after his second year and stayed there until he was shipped out.  How many coaches did they go through trying to put lipstick on that pig? (5 in 6 years if you include O'Connell for 10 games or so: Burns, Keenan, Ftorek, O'Connell, Sullivan).  Kessel also took six years to become a point/game player.  Among non-Bruins, look at Eric Staal.  Second year, he topped 100 points.  His typical year since then is around 73 points - not that many more than Seguin had las tyear.  Saint Bobby Ryan (to hear some tell it) has never topped 71 points playing with the Hart/Richard winner and Getzlaf.  Jordan Staal - never more than 50 points.  Those last three guys were all second overall picks just like Seguin.  Point is, it will be up to Seguin has to decide what kind of star he's going to be and giddy up.

    There's a similar inconsistency in people ripping him for making more adjustments in game and then critisizing his use of the fourth line, which is one obvious way he micromanages match-ups and tries to set up better matchups for his top players.  Bruins' home record this year is 15-4-3, and only Chicago and San Jose have fewer regulation losses on home ice.  Doesn't that suggest Claude's match-up management is doing something right?  At least not horribly, inexplicably wrong?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    The team's leading goal scorers are just over the 17 minute mark.  If they were just over the 20 minute mark, like many top players, they'd have an extra three minutes on the ice a game.  In this shortened season, that's an extra 144 minutes, or 8.4 more games at 17 minutes per game.

    That's significant.



    There are only 25 forwards playing more than 20min this season.  13 of them play for non-playoff teams, 5 more are Rangers or Wild (touch and go to make the playoffs), and the other 7 include Hart candidates Crosby, Ovechkin, Tavares and guys who would make the Hart long-list like Kane, Kopitar and Getzlaf.  #25 is Tyler Bozek.  Go figure.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    RWTK could coach this talented roster and have them in the playoffs.  It has all world talent.  This isnt florida.   TT now Rask.  Chara And Bergie.  I really dont need to go further.  This team has had numerous guys with 10 plus goals since 2011. this is not a lottery pick team.  Its stacked.  Im not giving credit to CJ for having a young star studded lineup.  Hes won a cup and im grateful.  But to think this team would tank without him behind the bench isnt gonna happen.  I like that he has his teams play a responsible system.  But i also think it holds guys back as well.  One example is Seguin.  I expected him to be further advanced by now.  Im not saying that is CJs fault, but i certainly question it.  How can he have a team with so many talented offensive guys and have an absolute dud of a pp.  ward is at fault but thats his staff.  Any team with a solid goalie, chara and bergie is gonna be good on the pk.  

    If Boston goes out early again i think they make a change.  Coaches are hired to be fired.   I would have no issue with a new coaching staff   

     

     


    I don't really see all of this offense.

     



    Look at our stats then. 

    2010-11 (12 players who scored more then 10 goals)

    2011-12 (10 players who scorec more then 10 goals and 6 20+ goal scorers). 

    Thats a lot of fire power.  Again.  RWTK could have this team in the playoffs every year unless he only put on 3 skaters each shift.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    lots of epistles today. I've always found some of julien'sdecisions to be not what I would like to see. So what ! who am i, except for 65 or more years watching our Bruins, and venting on occasion. There are some answers, like where and how to play Jagr, that challenge CJ, but he keeps trying. I'm a long time believer in replacing Thornton with more skill to complement Campbell and Paille; I know how hard Paille plays, but he is not a 1st line wing; some stalwarts like Seids and Ference are aging and slowing; poor passing almost begins with chara; Julien sticks with his favorites; not bad, but not so good at times; the changes I'd like would be to bring back Rammer and replace existing coaches with more than "yes" men.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    The team's leading goal scorers are just over the 17 minute mark.  If they were just over the 20 minute mark, like many top players, they'd have an extra three minutes on the ice a game.  In this shortened season, that's an extra 144 minutes, or 8.4 more games at 17 minutes per game.

    That's significant.

     



    I should have made that discrepency in my post. I didn't cherry pick the "as compared to" TOI figures. There were a few of 20+ minute skaters I could have put up there, but why include players like Stamkos who are the lone gun on a crap team. I know what you're saying though. My point was that the minutes that the Bruins best players receive are statistically relative to similar type players on similar quality teams.

     

    I could also have put a bunch of quality players that receive even less ice time than Seguin/Marchand.

    Bobby Ryan: 16:35

    Max Pacioretty: 16:35

    Scott Hartnell: 16:07

    My point is, I don't think "players getting too little ice time" is problem for this team. I've got some real questions for the team, but Im not going to micro-judge CJ's micro-decisions. "Why did he put line x in at 13:05 in the 3rd period?" If he doesn't get adequate results when it counts.. then thats another story.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to DrCC's comment:

     

    Before things get too out of hand, may I recommend switching to even-strength TOI?




     

    Defenitely relevant becuase the Bruins are never on the powerplay and don't do much withat time. There probably isn't allot of time to take off the total TOI.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    RWTK could coach this talented roster and have them in the playoffs.




    Youch!!

    Harsh, round 2!!

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:



    I should have made that discrepency in my post. I didn't cherry pick the "as compared to" TOI figures. There were a few of 20+ minute skaters I could have put up there, but why include players like Stamkos who are the lone gun on a crap team. I know what you're saying though. My point was that the minutes that the Bruins best players receive are statistically relative to similar type players on similar quality teams.

     

    I could also have put a bunch of quality players that receive even less ice time than Seguin/Marchand.

    Bobby Ryan: 16:35

    Max Pacioretty: 16:35

    Scott Hartnell: 16:07

    My point is, I don't think "players getting too little ice time" is problem for this team. I've got some real questions for the team, but Im not going to micro-judge CJ's micro-decisions. "Why did he put line x in at 13:05 in the 3rd period?" If he doesn't get adequate results when it counts.. then thats another story.



    Adequate results when it counts...like down by a goal with 1:20 left in the third?

    If you wish to look at how Montreal, Philly or Anaheim uses their players, that's fine.  I am looking at how the Bruins are using their players.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    I can do that...

                         AVGESTOI

    Bruins:

    Bergeron    14:55

    Marchand   14:01

    Seguin        14:49

    Paille          10:46

    Campbell    11:04

     

    Others of note:

    Malkin        15:04

    Datsyuk     15:09

    Toews        15:21

    H. Sedin     16:01

    Corey Perry  15:21

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     


    Adequate results when it counts...like down by a goal with 1:20 left in the third?

     

     



    Number of playoff game wins and Stanley Cups... a win's, a win's, a win.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fire Coach --> ?? --> Cup

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     


    Adequate results when it counts...like down by a goal with 1:20 left in the third?

     

     



    Number of playoff game wins and Stanley Cups... a win's, a win's, a win.

     




    I'm talking present tense, this year.

     
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