From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : I think you are remembering Alan Stewart.  http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=11570
    Posted by Crowls2424

    Thanks Crowls. That's exactly the name I was trying to come up with.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMn2DO_1N1g&feature=share

    just a nice tribute.  makes me ill that he has two beautiful daughters and a beautiful wife.  Was a Vol. firefighter who also did countless community hrs.  Voted as the teams funniest guy. 
    The other recent deaths havent bothered me as much as this one.  Belak just seemed like an all around great guy and by what the players are saying its all true. 
     
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    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMn2DO_1N1g&feature=share just a nice tribute.  makes me ill that he has two beautiful daughters and a beautiful wife.  Was a Vol. firefighter who also did countless community hrs.  Voted as the teams funniest guy.  The other recent deaths havent bothered me as much as this one.  Belak just seemed like an all around great guy and by what the players are saying its all true. 
    Posted by shuperman


    Heartbreaking.  Totally agree shupe -- this one is extra hard to swallow.  Belak seemes like the type of player and person that everyone should aspire to be.  I always liked him and my heart goes out to his family.  Hard to watch the video, but thanks for posting.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Heartbreaking.  Totally agree shupe -- this one is extra hard to swallow.  Belak seemes like the type of player and person that everyone should aspire to be.  I always liked him and my heart goes out to his family.  Hard to watch the video, but thanks for posting.
    Posted by Fletcher1


    Fletch buddy.  I have seen many suicides and some sh it that would launch cookies.  Most of those situations were grim to start with.
    This one really bothers me b/c he always always looked happy.  The boys on his team loved him, he was very personable.  I keep wondering what his last thoughts are.  Mine is of him holding his daughter in that video and signing autographs.  I had tears in my eyes at the end and when he waved good bye it really hit me. 
    His brother Graham is with the RCMP and just was aquitted of sex assault charges. 

    Enjoy everyday my friend.  And look fwd to tomorrow.  I watched the video about 10 times.  And I still get teary eyed. 
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Same reaction here shupe.  To pile on, I have two young daughters myself, similar ages.  I shudder to think what his wife is going through trying to explain things to them and carry on.

    Who knows what all of the underlying issues were, but there just has to be a way to prevent hockey from causing or contributing to this. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Well, they could eliminate the role.  They could have a six fight maximum during the regular season (one a month).  After your sixth fight, you are suspended for the remainder of the season.  Yeah, it's extreme, but it would allow tougher guys who can play hockey to also keep some peace out there, but eliminate the guys who have 15-20 fights a season.

    I don't recall any second line wingers taking this tragic route.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    Well, they could eliminate the role.  They could have a six fight maximum during the regular season (one a month).  After your sixth fight, you are suspended for the remainder of the season.  Yeah, it's extreme, but it would allow tougher guys who can play hockey to also keep some peace out there, but eliminate the guys who have 15-20 fights a season. I don't recall any second line wingers taking this tragic route.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I like it a lot.  Picks your spots, fight when necessary, fight when you're angry.  But there's no place for the meaningless goon dance during a boring game.  The whole concept of team toughness and accountability is preserved, while the number of fights is reduced.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    Well, they could eliminate the role.  They could have a six fight maximum during the regular season (one a month).  After your sixth fight, you are suspended for the remainder of the season.  Yeah, it's extreme, but it would allow tougher guys who can play hockey to also keep some peace out there, but eliminate the guys who have 15-20 fights a season. I don't recall any second line wingers taking this tragic route.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    I like your idea in theory but I don't like the idea (hypothetically) of Lucic playing the last 2 months with 5 fights under his belt, afraid to play his game for fear of suspension. Once a guy like Lucic has 5 fights he'd have to change his style of play. Last season would've seen Lucic, Horton, Campbell, Simmonds, Hartnell and Clowe all tossed for too many fights. I can agree with a sliding scale suspension for every fight after 6 but the rest of the season seems like too much. I don't think Horton, for instance, had a fight all year that wasn't purely out of anger/gameplay. I don't like the idea of dampening that kind of fire in a player.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : I like your idea in theory but I don't like the idea (hypothetically) of Lucic playing the last 2 months with 5 fights under his belt, afraid to play his game for fear of suspension. Once a guy like Lucic has 5 fights he'd have to change his style of play. Last season would've seen Lucic, Horton, Campbell, Simmonds, Hartnell and Clowe all tossed for too many fights. I can agree with a sliding scale suspension for every fight after 6 but the rest of the season seems like too much. I don't think Horton, for instance, had a fight all year that wasn't purely out of anger/gameplay. I don't like the idea of dampening that kind of fire in a player.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    Canadian University has a pretty simple rule as well. 
    1st Fight-Game Susp.
    2nd Fight- 3 Games
    3rd fight- Season.

    If they made a fight minimum it would make it interesting.  Lets just say 10 fights.  Maybe after fight 7 they start fining owners.  Maybe then they wouldnt be a need for the skating clowns.  But then teams would have 8 of them in the minors for call ups. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    I think everyone is jumping the gun here.  There is NO evidence of a correlation between fighting and the deaths of 3 players this summer.  NONE!  Take a deep breath, get off your soapbox and put down the agenda.  We get it, some people dont like fighting in hockey, but can you honestly say its the cause of 3 deaths this off season?  NO!  If it were, how come there isnt a constant stream of deaths from NHL enforcers, MMA guys and boxers?  And if its depression due to concussion, again, why dont we see more deaths in hockey, football, rugby, lacrosse, MMA, boxing, NASCAR, soccer, etc.?  Youre grasping at straws here guys.  Stop trying to push an agenda, unless that is to get help for people who need it.

    If you guys think those fights (where most of the time guys have on helmets, very limited punches are actually landed and they last for all of 20 seconds) are really a problem I think youre being naive, close-minded or arrogant to simply push your anti-fighting agenda.

    Now, if all games were as honest, clean, penalty free and fast-paced as game 7 vs. Tampa, Id have no problem removing fighting or putting more restrictive rules or penalties levied against it.  HOWEVER, we ALL know that isnt the case, and I think the league is too restrictive on fighting as it is.  As long as the league doest take disciplining guys seriously (Cooke should have been gone for the year for the hit on Savard) there is a problem.  If they cracked down on the diving and cheap hits, Id have no problem with putting some kind of limits on the number of fights a player can be in.  But until that happens, I think they need to let them have at it.  Most fights arent nearly as damaging to the brain as all the hits an NHL player constantly takes.  It doenst matter what causes the brain to slosh around and slam the skull, just that it does. 
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    bigvig, you sir, have an agenda.  This is a shamelessly jaded pro-fighting argument while others on this page are exploring more thoughtful options that limit the negative aspects of fighting, while at the same time improving the game by trying to eliminate the meaningless sideshow of two thugs having a fist fight, for no reason during a hockey game.  Of course, if you get off on seeing any fight, no matter the context, you will disagree.

    I love the use of exclamation points and Capital letters surrounding your demands that everyone else 'take a deep breath' and relax.  No self-awareness here at all.


    And, I almost spit out my coffee as you wonder aloud 'why we don't see more deaths in boxing (?!?).  Are you serious??  Have you been living in a cave??

    The rest is simply not worth responding to.  Try to calm down, re-read some of the posts above, and give them some actual considering instead of this defensive, knee-jerk reaction that someone is trying to take away your precious fist fights.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Absolutely not a pro fighting agenda, I guess you didnt understand what I was trying to say.

    Its like when there is a shooting and all we get is the anti-gun crowd trying to tell us how the world would be a safer and better place without guns instead of talking about actually holding people accountable for their actions.  "They had a bad home life, they need help, etc."  Put them in a posh prison with amenities they didnt have (a paid for roof, clothes, food, electricity, TV, internet, phone, gym, library, COLLEGE, etc.) and wonder why people dont mind going to jail.  They have it better in there than they did in the real world.  If we actually punished people you can bet crime would drop off significantly.

    Seems like the majority of the posts recently have been from the same old anti-fighting crowd that are constantly regurgitating their BS here.  Im personally sick to my stomach that people use the deaths of another to push THEIR agenda, because when you start talking about doing something other than helping these people's well being, its an agenda.  Belak was a son, a husband and a father who lost his life for whatever reason.  Talking about stopping fighting has NOTHING to do with his death. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Big, how many posters above are calling for an end to fighting?  I'm not, and I don't think others are either.  I think that this is a discussion about the possible improvement of the sport, that was prompted by the recent deaths of three fighters.  Nobody is saying a fighting rule might have saved their lives.  But it might be a good idea anyhow.  It is a discussion.  I don't see anyone driving at a specific agenda here.

    Secondly, I find your tone very self-righteous in the final paragraph above in judging the motives of others here.  Nobody is exploiting the deaths of these guys for some cause.  I think everyone here has expressed genuine sadness over the tragedies.  But what do Booggard, Rypien, and Belak all have in common?  They were fighters, first and foremost.  They would not be in the NHL without it.  That was their role.  It is perfectly valid to discuss the comparisons of these players and their untimely deaths.  It is perfectly logical to wonder whether this unique role in hockey may play a part in their struggles with despression.

    A number of former NHL tough-guys have come out publicly to support this notion (Kurt Walker, Matthew Barnaby, Tyson Nash, etc.).  Many people suspect that other tough guy suicides (Tootoo, Ettinger) or drug abuse (Walker, Probert) could be related to the same issues.

    It is worth discussing and there is no need to be so defensive.  This board is all about opinions -- don't get angry because people have different one's than you.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    Maybe it's only coincidence that three guys known for fighting died in such a short span.  Fighting's been around a long time, and a lot of guys did it for a long time, but the number of tragic stories we've heard has never approached what we're seeing lately.  It has to be more than just CTE, but I'm not sure what other links they'll find.  Drugs, 'roids (or even just supplements), alcohol, clinical depression? It's surely more complicated than the anti-fighting lobby will make it out to be.
    Posted by Bookboy007
    hey einstein, Drugs, 'roids (or even just supplements), alcohol, clinical depression? are all connected as a consequence of CTE!!!!!!
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Belak himself stated in a recent interview from what he knew he never had a concussion.
    Posted by callodthedom19
    you mean noone told him or checked, just dinged.. sidney crosby neber had one either right til that second hit confirmed it due to the fact he's on vacation for almost a year! strategic ignorance is a nice way to avoid knowing things. y do u think NHL will soon be sued like the NFL by its warriors? 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Boogard died from a overdose while the other two killed themselves.
    Posted by callodthedom19
    thats a natural outgrowth of CTE. most of those wrestlers and NFL guys do the same thing. like saying chris henry died only in a car accident after he erratically jumped on top of his wife's car when she was fleeing his abuse, or that chris benoit just die form suicide or a gunshot.. if u were a big strong independent guy and all of a sudden u started forgetting ABCs, getting uncopable headaches that paralyzed you for days, could not work or hold down a job, drive effectively or just function normally.. stans to reason drugs or alcohol would be a coping approach and the inevitable OVERDOSE. 
    chris lewinsky the ex harvard grad wrestler who quit because of his concussion issues says he has tested 4 hockey players' brains all with CTE thus far incl probert! no doubt these 3 guys will be count to that total IMO! talking science here not OPINION!
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Well like I said Fletch, before people start jumping on the no fighting bandwagon I wish there was some cold, hard evidence that fighting is why these three are dead because at this point it just seems like a coincidence.  Seems like if fighting were the case we'd have a lot more people killing themselves.  I think at this point its FAR too early to even guess at why these two men are dead (we know Rypien took his own life probably due to depression).  We'll probably never know for sure what happened, and we'll definitely never know what was going through their minds.

    Has Belaks deaths actually been ruled as suicide?  I know Rypiens has, but its also known that he was battling depression for 10 years.  Here is the real problem in my opinion (not fighting):  In ten years Rypien should have been able to receive help, REAL help.  With all the doctors and medications out there you would think it could have turned out differently for him.  Maybe he was just one in a million that was genetically predisposed to have depression and no matter what it was going to turn out this way for him, regardless of his profession.  Thats why I have a huge issue with people saying we need to stop fighting.  Again, its the same group of guys who say the same stuff all year long.  Thats why I have a real issue with it.  When Boogaard died there were comments made about him that were less than flattering and sincere on this site.  And this was before ANY information other than he died was released.  Its the same arrogant, self-righteous, obnoxious, know-it-alls posting the same stuff (there are a few of them).  Thats where I take real offense.  Its using a death as an agenda, plain and simple.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    Well like I said Fletch, before people start jumping on the no fighting bandwagon I wish there was some cold, hard evidence that fighting is why these three are dead because at this point it just seems like a coincidence.  Seems like if fighting were the case we'd have a lot more people killing themselves.  I think at this point its FAR too early to even guess at why these two men are dead (we know Rypien took his own life probably due to depression).  We'll probably never know for sure what happened, and we'll definitely never know what was going through their minds. Has Belaks deaths actually been ruled as suicide?  I know Rypiens has, but its also known that he was battling depression for 10 years.  Here is the real problem in my opinion (not fighting):  In ten years Rypien should have been able to receive help, REAL help.  With all the doctors and medications out there you would think it could have turned out differently for him.  Maybe he was just one in a million that was genetically predisposed to have depression and no matter what it was going to turn out this way for him, regardless of his profession.  Thats why I have a huge issue with people saying we need to stop fighting.  Again, its the same group of guys who say the same stuff all year long.  Thats why I have a real issue with it.  When Boogaard died there were comments made about him that were less than flattering and sincere on this site.  And this was before ANY information other than he died was released.  Its the same arrogant, self-righteous, obnoxious, know-it-alls posting the same stuff (there are a few of them).  Thats where I take real offense.  Its using a death as an agenda, plain and simple.
    Posted by bigvig


    big,

    One problem with the statement that Rypien should have got help os the fact that the menatl health profession is relatively new and has many flawed guidelines.  For example, If a person does not take meds the dr prescribes they will not evaluate further. Most of these meds alter your thought process a lot and they dont like how they feel.  And in some cases they refuse to admit they have a problem. 
    Mental health has always been shoved under the carpet but could be the biggest medical issue as we evolve. 
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    Has Belaks deaths actually been ruled as suicide?  Posted by bigvig


    They found him hanging from a noose. 

    Yes, it was a suicide.

    Today comes the news that former tough guy/enforcer Todd Fedoruk is battling drug abuse and depression...can we at least have the conversation?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    shupe, you took the words right out of my post as thats something I touched on earlier and sounds almost exactly the same as what I wrote.  But here is what Im trying to say:  Id bet your profession has a ton more stress than an NHL fighters job.  Police officers in New York City kill themselves at a rate of 2 1/2 times more than the general population.  What should we do, have no police?  After all, an NHL enforcer is often referred to as the police of the game. 

    fletch, I hadnt heard that.  The last thing I saw was a couple of days ago and they still hadnt said what his cause of death was.  And as far as Fedoruk is concerned, do people honestly believe the the "tough guys" are the only ones going through this stuff?  Maybe the "tough guys" have some sort of mental.....I dont know....predisposition to this sort of stuff and its why theyre tough guys?  But again, I was watching UFC last night and this one fight in particular had 100 more shots to the head delivered over the course of a 15 minute fight than Id bet any NHL fighter takes in his career.  Again, I dont want to use unfortunate isolated incidents to push an agenda.  I would honestly guess these few deaths are the results of a compromised mental capacity, not fighting.  Id even go out on a limb and say if these guys had to cut it in the real world, the end results would probably be the same or worse.

    But again, Id like to see some hard core studies done with some REAL evidence brought forward so we can understand what, if anything is going on and what, if anything, can be done.  The guys yelling that we need to stop fighting or suspend players etc., really get me going because they are simply pushing their anti-fighting agenda while using a couple of isolated tragedies as the backbone of it.  They do not care about the men who lost their lives, or the loved ones they left behind, they only care about telling people that this is why fighting should be banned in hockey.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    I hate to speculate without real proof...but there are some rumors in the hockey world that Belak's death was NOT a suicide but actually accidental.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : hey einstein,  Drugs, 'roids (or even just supplements), alcohol, clinical depression? are all connected as a consequence of CTE!!!!!!
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN


    Hey Beavis, look up the word "causality".
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    shupe, you took the words right out of my post as thats something I touched on earlier and sounds almost exactly the same as what I wrote.  But here is what Im trying to say:  Id bet your profession has a ton more stress than an NHL fighters job.  Police officers in New York City kill themselves at a rate of 2 1/2 times more than the general population.  What should we do, have no police?  After all, an NHL enforcer is often referred to as the police of the game.  fletch, I hadnt heard that.  The last thing I saw was a couple of days ago and they still hadnt said what his cause of death was.  And as far as Fedoruk is concerned, do people honestly believe the the "tough guys" are the only ones going through this stuff?  Maybe the "tough guys" have some sort of mental.....I dont know....predisposition to this sort of stuff and its why theyre tough guys?  But again, I was watching UFC last night and this one fight in particular had 100 more shots to the head delivered over the course of a 15 minute fight than Id bet any NHL fighter takes in his career.  Again, I dont want to use unfortunate isolated incidents to push an agenda.  I would honestly guess these few deaths are the results of a compromised mental capacity, not fighting.  Id even go out on a limb and say if these guys had to cut it in the real world, the end results would probably be the same or worse. But again, Id like to see some hard core studies done with some REAL evidence brought forward so we can understand what, if anything is going on and what, if anything, can be done.  The guys yelling that we need to stop fighting or suspend players etc., really get me going because they are simply pushing their anti-fighting agenda while using a couple of isolated tragedies as the backbone of it.  They do not care about the men who lost their lives, or the loved ones they left behind, they only care about telling people that this is why fighting should be banned in hockey.
    Posted by bigvig


    big,
    police of the hockey world which is an entertain sport is a bit different than actual police.  The stress that is often thrown our way is hard on the head.  Now, saying that I am not that stressful of a person and can laugh most things off or find humor in it(even if its warped at times).  And yes our(police) rate of suicide is much higher, but so is our divorce rate which often leads to other problems. 
    I played at univesity where fighting is banned. go watch a university game and tell me it isnt exciting...no fighting and not needed but some fast, hard hitting hockey. 

    I like the odd fight like I mentioned but the stress fighters are on is incredible.  If you havent read Proberts book I suggest picking up a copy.  I have no idea how these guys fight when they arent angry.  I had a lot of fights in junior and some when I was in Wichita.  Most were spur of the moment anger fights.  Some were force fed and I had a really hard time doing it.  Had I done it I likely could have played longer b/c I am 6'4, 240lbs and can skate.  I simply didnt have that mentality. 

    I think there is a direct link from their role, to the hits to the head, to depression, which leads to prescribed drug abuse which likely already counters their other addictions with drugs or booze. 

    I think the NHL can easily live without fighters.  I don't think it should be taken out of the game and personally I don't think it will.  But in the police we have bi-annual medicals which includes speaking to a shrink.  I can pretty much assure you nothing is in place in the NHLPA to make it manditory. 

    Hopefully these tragic incidents will lead to better knowledge and support groups for these players. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Support groups would be a great thing.  Also understanding that depression is an actual illness and you cant just "snap out of it" would help too.  Ive been there, done that.  I played hockey in D1 too, no fighting allowed.  I absolutely HATE watching college hockey.  HATE IT!  For various reasons, NONE of which are no fighting.  Like I said in another post, if all hockey could be like game 7 of the Bruins/Lightning series, we wouldnt need fighting, but the fact is the game, players and fans need it and want it.

    Ive said it before here in various topics:  Ive had a few severe concussions that were diagnosed and treated, and a number that werent.  I have a few doctors I see throughout New England on a regular basis and Im basically screwed.  Mid 30's and I forget things, have severe migraines, dizzy spells, nausea, vomiting, light sensitivity, etc.  There are times when Im in the middle of a sentence and forget what Im saying.  There are times when Im on the floor playing with m 3 1/2 year old and I get so dizzy and sick I cant move.  It will NEVER get better.  Ive had depression and seen doctors and been on meds.  Its all treatable....if you want to treat it.  Point is, there are people in this world, in every profession, who are going to take their own lives. 

    My whole point is/was, using the deaths of someone to further ones own personal agenda is in poor taste and disgusting to me.  The only thing a tragedy like Boogaard, Rypien & Belak should be used for is helping others in similar situations.  Fighting or not, these things are going to happen.
     
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    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Maybe the players's so-called "union", which, as far as I can tell, has been little more than a one-note bargaining platform, could step up and insist there be mandatory, team-funded mental health provisions to ensure players aren't masking undiagnosed concussions or PCS, aren't suffering from depression or low grade addiction issues, can manage their stress, and will be prepared to manage life outside of hockey.

    I don't think you can overstate that last one.  You spend 20-30 years of your life trying to be as good at the game as you can be, and you measure your progress in every game you win or lose so you get constant feedback, affirmation, recognition.  Then - you can't compete.  No more games.  No more community of players sharing a common goal (unless you play with Semin).  Time to start from scratch - good luck and hey, get that knee scoped would ya, cause it looks like a python swallowed a watermelon.

    It has to be as destabilizing as divorce and losing your parents on the same day.
     
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