From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]was GOING TO post about this but glad i was beat to it. so everyone thinks the game is too soft today eh? third enforcer type dead in the same way can not be an isolated coincidence. these guys get hit in the head a lot. rvrn sten wonder can see the connection to style of play. another enfocer sent to the great penalty box of the sky, not good!
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]
    Boogard died from a overdose while the other two killed themselves.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]Actually, kel, there are fighters killing themselves, too. You guys aren't looking at this right... the occurrance of CTE is prevalent in most high impact sports... hockey, football, fighting.  The college player (Owens ?) hung himself.  Sound familiar?  Many of these guys do not show extreme major depression in the way you are imagining... that therapy will fix. "Couch time" is not the answer;  its a neurological disorder resulting from the accumulation of blows to the head: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy Ive had to do a lot of research on this for my latest project, its bad news.  They interviewed Thornton from the B's about it- he got very defensive about the idea of taking away his livelihood as a goon when he knows it just might be killing him.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    Hold on, the occurence of CTE is one of several explanations for this.  It is entirely possible that Belak (and Rypien) did not suffer from concussions, but rather suffered from traditional depression.  Several former players have already come out to discuss how difficult it was to be a fighter in the NHL and then face retirement, wihtout any mention of concussions.

    It takes a certain mentality to get in 150 fist fights with the toughest guys in hockey during a career, and there is certainly a possibility that this mentality is not sopmethign you can just 'shut off' when you retire.  Therefore, time on the couch might really help these guys.  That process is about self-awareness and recognizing what you are going through and understanding the wekanesses.  I think it is a good idea.


    Let's not assume that all of these guys automatically have CTE, and we should treat them for that alone.  I've never heard that Belak suffered from concussions.  Depression may be the culprit. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Hold on, the occurence of CTE is one of several explanations for this.  It is entirely possible that Belak (and Rypien) did not suffer from concussions, but rather suffered from traditional depression.  Several former players have already come out to discuss how difficult it was to be a fighter in the NHL and then face retirement, wihtout any mention of concussions. It takes a certain mentality to get in 150 fist fights with the toughest guys in hockey during a career, and there is certainly a possibility that this mentality is not sopmethign you can just 'shut off' when you retire.  Therefore, time on the couch might really help these guys.  That process is about self-awareness and recognizing what you are going through and understanding the wekanesses.  I think it is a good idea. Let's not assume that all of these guys automatically have CTE, and we should treat them for that alone.  I've never heard that Belak suffered from concussions.  Depression may be the culprit. 
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]
    Belak himself stated in a recent interview from what he knew he never had a concussion.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    <stares blankly at screen>

    Knowing a lot of us suffer from depression and having a family member who took his own life, it is entirely relatable. Compound it with the pressures of being an "enforcer" in the NHL, and you are left to wonder about circumstance, pre-existence, and corrolation. There is no silver bullet here.

    I'm not for the banishment of fighting in the NHL, I think sometimes someone needs a firm beatdown, but to have that as your primary career requirement is frightening.

    My heartfelt sympathies to his family, friends, and teammates.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    If its such an epidemic among hockey fighters, why havent boxers, MMA guys, football players, and hockey players previous, been taking their own lives as well?

    People always jump on the bandwagon.  Its no different than when a shooting spree occurs and all you hear for the next week is how guns need to be banned across the board.

    I agree, something needs to be done, but its NOT ban fighting.  That isnt the issue in my opinion.  This topic in general (depression) has been hush-hush for years.  Even today its still kind of a dirty little secret.  Unless youve been through it, you have NO IDEA what youre talking about.  Youre just regurgitating what youve heard or read.  You cannot control your brain, simple as that, and depression is cause by your brain not making certain chemicals that allow nerve cells to communicate.

    However, depression is also hereditary and no matter what, you have no idea why a person takes their own life unless they tell you.  Ive known 3 people who have killed themselves.  Although you can speculate, you can NEVER KNOW why they actually did it.  Its their lives, and no matter how selfish you think it is (because you yourself are being selfish) it was their decision for whatever reason.

    Using ones suicide as a scapegoat to further ones agenda is incredibly disgusting.  Getting help for mentally ill people shouldnt be necessitated because one wants to end fighting in hockey.  The two MIGHT have a correlation, but you cant prove it because of a couple of deaths.  How about we just get help for these people because we care about them!?  Let people know its OK to be sick and that we're there for them.  There are mentally ill people in every line of work, not just hockey.  Depression knows no bounds.  How about we address the actual issues instead of making issues out of peoples illnesses?  Doesnt that make the most sense?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Hold on, the occurence of CTE is one of several explanations for this.  It is entirely possible that Belak (and Rypien) did not suffer from concussions, but rather suffered from traditional depression.  Several former players have already come out to discuss how difficult it was to be a fighter in the NHL and then face retirement, wihtout any mention of concussions. It takes a certain mentality to get in 150 fist fights with the toughest guys in hockey during a career, and there is certainly a possibility that this mentality is not sopmethign you can just 'shut off' when you retire.  Therefore, time on the couch might really help these guys.  That process is about self-awareness and recognizing what you are going through and understanding the wekanesses.  I think it is a good idea. Let's not assume that all of these guys automatically have CTE, and we should treat them for that alone.  I've never heard that Belak suffered from concussions.  Depression may be the culprit. 
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]
    Fletch, you're absolutely right.  I can't recall the players name but the Bruins acquired a guy from the Devils( in the 90's I think) who was a fighter. The guy eneded up retiring due to issues related to multiple nervous breakdowns. He said in an interview that the prospect of fighting a guy like Probert, Manson or Grimson every night became unbearable but it was either that or lose his job...... tough way to make a living.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    I  hope that the families of Boogaard, Rypien and Belak donate their brains for research, because that's what's needed right now.  More research.  We need to figure out why this is happening and, more importantly, how to recognize the symptoms to prevent these tragedies from occurring in the future.  I have read that many 'enforcers' have a lot of anxiety over their role, specifically whether they will "let down their team" if they lose a fight, and probably also regarding the long-term damage that they're doing to themselves.  Even if a 'tough guy' gets his bell rung, and is a bit woozy heading to the penalty box, he'll probably try to hide the symptoms, because he probably knows that if he's out of the lineup for a couple of weeks waiting for a concussion to clear up, he may be spending the rest of the season in the minors.

    Is it CTE? We know that repeated blows to the head are a direct cause of CTE.
    Is it anxiety over the role of the enforcer? Is it depression?  A combination of some or all three?  We need to know facts before we starting talking about things like banning fighting from the game.  The NHL & NHLPA should commission a Task Force to compile all of the research (from all sports, and all sources) and conduct interviews with players, trainers, coaches, etc. to develop a set of recommendations to the Board of Governors.  One thing for sure:  we can't let the tragic deaths of these good men happen without learning some hard lessons, and making some changes.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Fletch, you're absolutely right.  I can't recall the players name but the Bruins acquired a guy from the Devils( in the 90's I think) who was a fighter. The guy eneded up retiring due to issues related to multiple nervous breakdowns. He said in an interview that the prospect of fighting a guy like Probert, Manson or Grimson every night became unbearable but it was either that or lose his job...... tough way to make a living.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Exactly dez, and I remember Kelly Chase describing that scenario too -- the fear and desire NOT to fight being repressed because he knew that was the only way he could stay in the league.  He said many nights he dreaded it.

    I have never been in a fight where I wasn't so angry that I didn't even have to think about it.  I can't imagine having to do it (and plan for it) without any real reason, and without anger as the motivator.  I don't think I could do it.  Definitely not night after night.  It can't be good for your mental state when you have to blend back into society the moment you're no longer wanted in the league.  Learning to casually carry out repeated bare-knuckle fist fights is totally counter-intuitive, and might just be a self destructive behavior (regardless of whether you get hit). 

    That's where the NHL should attempt to draw the line in my opinion.  Fighting that is a product of emotion and competition is allowable; fighting that is purely a side show has no place in the game.  Hockey players who fight = okay; Fighters who play hockey = not okay.  Fighting can be a rational choice (like when somebody tries to injure you or a teammate).  It is totally irrational behavior as a response to the 250 lb guy on the other bench who just nodded at you because the game is boring.  I only like fighting when it makes some sense, as part of a rough, physical, emotional game.

    I know that is overly simplistic, and unlikely to fix all of the problems, but that is what I would like to see the league move towards.  Nobody should be fighting for a living in the sport of hockey.  Perhaps Belak, Rypien, and Booggard never could have made the league under that scenario -- so be it.  They'd be no worse off than they are now.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Exactly dez, and I remember Kelly Chase describing that scenario too -- the fear and desire NOT to fight being repressed because he knew that was the only way he could stay in the league.  He said many nights he dreaded it.  I can't imagine having to do it (and plan for it) without any real reason, and without anger as the motivator.  I don't think I could do it. It can't be good for your mental state when you have to blend back into society the moment you're no longer wanted in the league.  Learning to casually carry out repeated bare-knuckle fist fights is totally counter-intuitive, and might just be a self destructive behavior Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    One of the main reasons why I personally think having to fight to stay in the league leads to the depression. Enforcers can go to as many power skating clinics and do as many stick handling drills as they want but will never be good enough to be in the NHL without having to fight. There is guilt and failing feeling of inferiority no matter how nice they are.

    Then they go to the worst answer pain-killers and alcohol in most cases. If one of the answers is to take the instigator rule out, even if Shanahan wants to do it as experimental, then allot of the enforcers will find themselves in the AHL.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    "Perhaps Belak, Rypien, and Booggard never could have made the league under that scenario -- so be it.  They'd be no worse off than they are now"

    Fletch, that is true, but these guys are also under pressures from outside the rink, as in, trying to provide the best they can for their families. Being a goon for 1 million dollars in front of cheering throngs versus being a spot welder for $12/hr in their hometowns is not much of a decision...but your point is very well taken. My hope is that there continues to be a heightened awareness of head trauma and depression, and more importantly their corrolation. Each alone is it's own tragedy, but put them together and we're seeing the sad results. There seems to be good progress in these sciences Think of what we knew/supposed about concussions just a few years ago as opposed to now.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]I've been sitting here with my fingers on my keyboard for a few minutes.  Nothing to say outside of, "tragic". This stuff has to stop. They need to get mandatory couch visits at the shrink for anyone who has more than 10 fighting majors each year.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]


    You seem solemn now, yet, when the depression leads to an overdose or suicide by overdose, then you are willing to throw stones. 

    This story is tragic.  So was Boogard's story.  I hope you can see that now.  The Pills and the alcohol that Boogard consumed on that fateful night cannot be considered without the context of CTE and his role in the NHL taken into consideration.  Based on your coments earlier this summer I would have thought that your comments here would have been more harsh.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WillsBruins. Show WillsBruins's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    This is so sad.
    I hope they do research into their history and look for steroids. One major side effect is depression.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Maybe it's only coincidence that three guys known for fighting died in such a short span.  Fighting's been around a long time, and a lot of guys did it for a long time, but the number of tragic stories we've heard has never approached what we're seeing lately.  It has to be more than just CTE, but I'm not sure what other links they'll find.  Drugs, 'roids (or even just supplements), alcohol, clinical depression?

    It's surely more complicated than the anti-fighting lobby will make it out to be.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    A good article on this from Adrian Dater, Avs writer:

    http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011/09/01/nhl-and-its-troubled-fighters-denial-no-longer-an-option/7953/
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    I think one of the best at his trade says it all!! Scroll down to Gerorge Laraque's interview on tsn radio 1050.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Funny how people comment about steroids.  When Ive been battling depression, one of the VERY few meds that works is steroids.  Not sure where people come up with depression as a major side effect, but there have been a few times when I was at the lowest low, and steroids was the ONLY thing that helped.  Steroids are FAR less dangerous than the media make them out to be.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]Funny how people comment about steroids.  When Ive been battling depression, one of the VERY few meds that works is steroids.  Not sure where people come up with depression as a major side effect, but there have been a few times when I was at the lowest low, and steroids was the ONLY thing that helped.  Steroids are FAR less dangerous than the media make them out to be.
    Posted by bigvig[/QUOTE]
    I agree with one of the earlier posters who wondered if the pharmaceutical pain killers might be the cause of more problems than answers. I bet most of us know someone who had trouble getting themselves off of prescibed pain meds. Big pharmy is evil.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE] I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Good luck to you,man. Many of us on this board have  a pit in our stomachs today.
    Posted by watchtower[/QUOTE]

    Thank you, watch.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]Funny how people comment about steroids.  When Ive been battling depression, one of the VERY few meds that works is steroids.  Not sure where people come up with depression as a major side effect, but there have been a few times when I was at the lowest low, and steroids was the ONLY thing that helped.  Steroids are FAR less dangerous than the media make them out to be.
    Posted by bigvig[/QUOTE]

    True Bigvig and even thoug I'd never take them, Jose Canseco insists that steroids if used properly are actually quite beneficial..Now I know your saying "Jose Canseco, he's a idiot ,rat loser" but give him this..One, he has been 100% right so far, and he absolutley knows what he is talking about when it comes to steroids...I have a buddy who always says, if he is ever told he has cancer, he's going right on a steroid program.

    Back to Belak, I'm guessing theres a connection to the three and I'm guessing it's a medication they were on..
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    I know a guy who has AIDS from a blood transfusion.  He has been on a steroid "program" since the late 1980's.  He is one of the healthiest people youll ever meet.  He works out regularly, eats great and takes care of himself.  He says had it not been for steroids, he would have been dead long ago.  Youd never guess there was anything wrong with him.

    Steroids have a bad rap and its all political.  100%.  No two ways around it.  They dont know much about them, except its something your body makes naturally and can be really beneficial if taken responsibly.  But due to politicians, the baseball scandal (actually DONT think Canseco is an idiot), Lyle Alzado, Ben Johnson and that wrestler who killed his family, steroids have become a scapegoat for teen suicide, violence, cheating, depression and cancer.  Its all BS in my opinion.  The media and government have blown it up to make a story and push an agenda.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    I still think that depression or mental stress drives it all.  Whether we're talking about steroids, or pain killers, or hard drugs, they usually only get abused to cover up some deeper pain or anxieties.  I had some pretty severe physical injuries recently and have been on morphine, oxycontin, percocet, and vicodin to varying degrees.  Never had the slightest desire to take any of them a day longer than I needed to.  I have unused jars of that stuff sitting in my bathroom.

    But if I had to fight Colton Orr, Georges Laraque, and Jody Shelley every other night in front of 20,000 people (and then got benched for the playoffs), I can see how you might turn in that direction.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    Belak's Mom confirms that her son was battling depression.

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2011/09/02/sp-belak-nn.html?cmp=rss
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Fletch, you're absolutely right.  I can't recall the players name but the Bruins acquired a guy from the Devils( in the 90's I think) who was a fighter. The guy eneded up retiring due to issues related to multiple nervous breakdowns. He said in an interview that the prospect of fighting a guy like Probert, Manson or Grimson every night became unbearable but it was either that or lose his job...... tough way to make a living.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Graeme Townsend had an issue like that.  He told the B's brass that if they only called him up to fight that they should send him back down.  He graduated from RPI, so he wasn't your run of the mill cement head (looking at you BizNasty).

    They did send him back and he left after the season.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]Another thing I think you guys who wana ban fighting or enforcerers are having a knee jerk reaction. Its been a brutal off season for the enforcers no doubt but to take that stance is just over the top. If you wana take fighting out then do you want it to be a no checking league too? Checks cause head injuries too. I don't know how much I would like the nhl if all the players wore shields and dove and did cheapshots with their sticks and there could be no retaliation with fighting. Would be like the nba on ice and that would be garbage.
    Posted by LUCICmilan17[/QUOTE]

    Not bad fighting, but eliminate the role of the Skating Clown.

    Lucic vs. Komisarek?  Good hockey

    John Scott vs. Krys Barch?  Skating Clown go around
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead

    In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From Twitter: Wade Belak found dead : Fletch, you're absolutely right.  I can't recall the players name but the Bruins acquired a guy from the Devils( in the 90's I think) who was a fighter. The guy eneded up retiring due to issues related to multiple nervous breakdowns. He said in an interview that the prospect of fighting a guy like Probert, Manson or Grimson every night became unbearable but it was either that or lose his job...... tough way to make a living.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    I think you are remembering Alan Stewart. 

    http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=11570
     
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