Fundamental

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jalvis. Show jalvis's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    In Response to Re: Fundamental : If Shawn Thornton isn't on the fourth line, the team is so broken that Toe Blake couldn't coach it to a playoff berth.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    "Toe Blake?"

    "Old-time hockey?"

    "Yeah...like Eddie Shore!"

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mutant211. Show Mutant211's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    In Response to Re: Fundamental : "Toe Blake?" "Old-time hockey?" "Yeah...like Eddie Shore!"
    Posted by jalvis

    Scouts?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    A team that has its 4th line playing the most minutes & getting put into goal scoring situations on a nightly basis, is a team in trouble!  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    In Response to Re: Fundamental : thats not what were discussing though, we are discussing the 4th line starting the 2nd period against another teams scoring line while the team is trailing, and I see nothing wrong with that
    Posted by pbergeron37

    More than a shut down line,the 4th line should be used as a wear down line.That's what CJ had in mind when he put them against Stamkos' line.Not as big a deal as everyone is making it(it's not like he tried for that match-up all night).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    The more games we see the more restrictive Claude's fundamentals become. He has been outcoached in a number of games this year particularly the younger coaches who are not stuck in their own 'system" but are more flexible. "STack-em" doesn't work that well against snipers, and leads to throw the puck around the boards where opposing players beat the stack-em forwards to the puck. This week's Hockey News has Ken Campbell claiming the East is passe and speedier hockey, with better coaching, is played in the Western conference. What do you think??
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    This week's Hockey News has Ken Campbell claiming the East is passe and speedier hockey, with better coaching, is played in the Western conference. What do you think??


    Uhhh what?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    "If Shawn Thornton isn't on the fourth line, the team is so broken that Toe Blake couldn't coach it to a playoff berth."  -NAS

    Fluto never referred to it as the third, and I don't think Dupont has stuck with that labelling.  I don't know any better designation of the fourth line than "the one with Thornton on it."
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    "If Shawn Thornton isn't on the fourth line, the team is so broken that Toe Blake couldn't coach it to a playoff berth."  -NAS Fluto never referred to it as the third, and I don't think Dupont has stuck with that labelling.  I don't know any better designation of the fourth line than "the one with Thornton on it."
    Posted by DrCC

    I don't know why there is such a dire need to label the lines.If Bergeron's line plays against the top line and,as a result,plays the most,does that make his the #1(and why does it matter)?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    In Response to Re: Fundamental : I'm going to disagree. First off your third and fourth line are your defensive lines. The goal of the fourth line should always be don't get scored on, get the puck deep whenever you can, glass and out whenever you can. Against a line with Stamkos on it, thats a pretty good strategy. Especially when playing catch up. I would rather the Krejci line worry about putting the puck in the net than shutting down stamkos. NAS - 100% correct on that. I would have liked Seguin to serve that, he doesn't kill penalties anyway
    Posted by pbergeron37


    What part are you saying I didn't read correctly ?
    If he starts Krejci's line I bet Boucher does not start Stamkos.  Julien wins on the first shift.  The point I made and will repeat it again, anytime you put a 4th line to start a period on the road you're putting them in a tough spot to defend. Your 4th line is not your checking line nor your best defensive line therefire the other coach having the last change will always take advantage. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    It isn't so much about the TOI you'll see on games sheets as what the lines mean.  In fact, it's probably a safe bet that you can get a sense of how a game went for your team by comparing actual TOI vs. ideal TOI for each line.  If your distribution of ice time follows what you want as opposed to what you have to do to react to in-game situations, you're either getting the results you want, or you need to change your personnel or your plan. 

    In a perfect world for a team that wants to roll 4 lines regularly, and in an average game, I think you'd want your top line playing at least 17-18m.  17-18 is probably a regular game - relatively close, not too many PPs and not too many PKs.  Second line then sees 15-16 on average, with the third line playing just slightly less depending on matchups and then the 4th line kicking in 10-12.

    So you'd expect that they had a bad game if these numbers were totally out of whack - 20+ minutes and 18+ minutes for the top two lines probably means you were playing catch-up all game (or you had a lot of PP time - but even then, you were likely unsuccessful on the PP and couldn't dial back the first lines outside of PP).  If the 3rd and 4th are playing significant minutes, it could mean a lot of PK time or needing to shadow a particularly line - meaning less opportunity offensively - but it could also mean you've taken a big enough lead and you can roll lines to kill the clock.

    Obviously this will  vary with personnel.  Teams thin on talent will play a top line 20+ if they want to win.  Teams with goonish, marginal fourth lines will play them 5 minutes leaving 55 to allocate to the other lines. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    "I don't know why there is such a dire need to label the lines.If Bergeron's line plays against the top line and,as a result,plays the most,does that make his the #1(and why does it matter)?" - dezaruchi

    Well, it doesn't.  Not really.  But BsLegion's complaint about Campbell's line starting the period against Stamkos' is based on it being considered the 4th line.  If Julien considers it his matchup line, that would explain his decision, though at the same time suggest he took a puck off the head in practice.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    The Bruins have been sleepwalking since Krejci returned. They seem to play as if Krejci will make everything right.

    Get back to work, boys: starting tonight.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    You know what's fundamental ? It's when the Bruins start the 2nd period and who does Julien have on the ice to take the faceoff ?  The 4th line. That's a gift and since Boucher had the last change guess which line he put on ? His 1st line. Can you spell  M I S M A T C H !  Fundementaly you put your 1st or 2nd line to start the period on the road. Julien to blame as much as the players for this game. Posted by BsLegion


    Legion How many times have I said on the Bruins Blog during the game "The Bruins are about to take a draw in the offensive zone and Julien throws the 4th line over the boards." ? It's getting old...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    In Response to Re: Fundamental : thats not what were discussing though, we are discussing the 4th line starting the 2nd period against another teams scoring line while the team is trailing, and I see nothing wrong with that
    Posted by pbergeron37


    If the best a team has to shutdown the other team's top line is one that contains Shawn Thornton, they should use their top five pick the next season to select a defensive forward.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    pbergeron37, read above! the number of the lines does not matter it is an outcome of a century of hockey whereas the most talented are genuinely on the top two lines.  Delineation over time if you will.  Now that said, in today's NHL, the number of truly talented players is diminished by the number of teams despite not considering the demographic conditions in the hockey world.  So the delineation from one line to the next is less noticeable.  Even so, I think the fourth line as necessity as a energy line, as a necessity over the long season, and to feed for development of young players.  The problem is games when there is a need to generate offense.  Sometimes in an "off" night or as some say the other team was better (which means the Bs s#@k), the first three lines should be used more often given their talent.  Especially in the third period.  That is not the case with CJ.  I will grant BB "larger picture" argument that there is more to the thinking in CJ's decision making day to day .  I will also agree with NAS  that Thornton is on the fourth line period.  Marchand is fine with his 12 to 15 minutes a game, he will be a liabitlity after that imo.  Loose cannon with the in your face carp.  All those factors considered, the Bs have too much talent to have the fourth line play a significant amount of time especially when the team is young and in a developmental stage.  CJ is not in tune with the offensive needs to win a game when down two goals as a rule as well.  He is just not that creative offensively.  His defensive scheme is one of the best, Chara considered.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    In Response to Re: Fundamental:
    In Response to Re: Fundamental : Legion How many times have I said on the Bruins Blog during the game "The Bruins are about to take a draw in the offensive zone and Julien throws the 4th line over the boards." ? It's getting old...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    and it was devastating in terms of momentum in the 1st and 2nd.  Picture in Pitts and in Washington putting your 4th line to start a period.  Guess who their coach will put on the ice ?  It's called a major mis-match.  There's no way the 4th line can contain a Crosby , a Malkin, an Ovy , Stamkos and let's say STaal Just because Friday we'll be at the game !!!!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Fundamental

    Other teams are just going to "fundamentally" throw the aggressive 2 man forecheck until the B's prove they can get the darned puck over the red line on one of their sticks with any regularity.
     
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