Good column from Grantland

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Good column from Grantland

    As if we needed more, Bill Simmons weighs in on the case against Bettman:

     

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8639525/just-go-away-gary

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    What I don't get is how someone points the finger at Bettman. Bettman doesn't tell 30 owners what to do. The BOG tells Bettman what to do. Bettman is a lawyer by education. He's never been an owner of anything. It was the owners who decided to bring him on board & it's the owners who can fire him. If the owner's didn't think Gary was doing his job they way they wanted, wouldn't they have given him the boot by now? Just like NHLPA got rid of Goodenow, Saskin & Kelly. It drives me crazy to hear the fans curse out Bettman & Fehr. They only represent the voice of a group. Can you imagine what you'd hear coming across the room with 700-800 players going at 30 owners! Why is it so difficult for people to see that Bettman & Fehr are representives of many. If they did any of this without an OK from the people they represent I don't think they'd be there long.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    While I agree that Bettman "does as he's told", I don't think that the Governors are looking over his shoulder every minute and whispering in his ear "OK, Gary, now say this..."

    I think that a certain amount of the impasse is due to personality, negotiating styles and ego.  I can't help but think that someone who grew up with hockey, has a genuine (not generated) affection for the game, and looks at the league as something other than "his legacy" (sad as it is, now), would have gotten the deal done by now.

    The fact that neither Bettman nor Fehr have those things, puts them out of touch with the passion that fans like us feel for the game, and the sense of impending loss coming with yet another season lost.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to 49-North's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While I agree that Bettman "does as he's told", I don't think that the Governors are looking over his shoulder every minute and whispering in his ear "OK, Gary, now say this..."

    I think that a certain amount of the impasse is due to personality, negotiating styles and ego.  I can't help but think that someone who grew up with hockey, has a genuine (not generated) affection for the game, and looks at the league as something other than "his legacy" (sad as it is, now), would have gotten the deal done by now.

    The fact that neither Bettman nor Fehr have those things, puts them out of touch with the passion that fans like us feel for the game, and the sense of impending loss coming with yet another season lost.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bettman was a fan of the Rangers (casual fan or not) before he became commish,  Fehr on the otherhand could care less about hockey.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 49-North's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While I agree that Bettman "does as he's told", I don't think that the Governors are looking over his shoulder every minute and whispering in his ear "OK, Gary, now say this..."

    I think that a certain amount of the impasse is due to personality, negotiating styles and ego.  I can't help but think that someone who grew up with hockey, has a genuine (not generated) affection for the game, and looks at the league as something other than "his legacy" (sad as it is, now), would have gotten the deal done by now.

    The fact that neither Bettman nor Fehr have those things, puts them out of touch with the passion that fans like us feel for the game, and the sense of impending loss coming with yet another season lost.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bettman was a fan of the Rangers (casual fan or not) before he became commish,  Fehr on the otherhand could care less about hockey.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There's a basketball team named the Rangers?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 49-North's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While I agree that Bettman "does as he's told", I don't think that the Governors are looking over his shoulder every minute and whispering in his ear "OK, Gary, now say this..."

    I think that a certain amount of the impasse is due to personality, negotiating styles and ego.  I can't help but think that someone who grew up with hockey, has a genuine (not generated) affection for the game, and looks at the league as something other than "his legacy" (sad as it is, now), would have gotten the deal done by now.

    The fact that neither Bettman nor Fehr have those things, puts them out of touch with the passion that fans like us feel for the game, and the sense of impending loss coming with yet another season lost.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bettman was a fan of the Rangers (casual fan or not) before he became commish,  Fehr on the otherhand could care less about hockey.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There's a basketball team named the Rangers?

    [/QUOTE]


    He went too many NYR games .

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to 49-North's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    While I agree that Bettman "does as he's told", I don't think that the Governors are looking over his shoulder every minute and whispering in his ear "OK, Gary, now say this..."

    I think that a certain amount of the impasse is due to personality, negotiating styles and ego.  I can't help but think that someone who grew up with hockey, has a genuine (not generated) affection for the game, and looks at the league as something other than "his legacy" (sad as it is, now), would have gotten the deal done by now.

    The fact that neither Bettman nor Fehr have those things, puts them out of touch with the passion that fans like us feel for the game, and the sense of impending loss coming with yet another season lost.

    [/QUOTE]

    WHOA! Wait a minute? Do you think most of the owners are fans of the game? Terry Pegula is as passionate as they come & Balsillie would be too, but the rest of the owners felt he'd hurt the league. I think Charlie Jacob's is a fan. His old man is about the dollar as are most of the owner's! So over half the owners are out of touch with the passion that we are. If they were so GD passionate about it! Where's are they? Have they come out & said anything to us? Has Crosby? Don't try to justify a side here! BOTH sides as far as I'm concerned are to blame! 

     

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    I'm 100% in agreement with you that both sides are to blame.  Yes, there are passionate owners, and the players are also passionate.  I think there are many on both sides who want to get the thing done and start playing, but they are being advised (strongly) by their "leaders" to "remain unified" and continue fighting.


    They'll continue fighting, until there's nothing left to fight for.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to 49-North's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm 100% in agreement with you that both sides are to blame.  Yes, there are passionate owners, and the players are also passionate.  I think there are many on both sides who want to get the thing done and start playing, but they are being advised (strongly) by their "leaders" to "remain unified" and continue fighting.


    They'll continue fighting, until there's nothing left to fight for.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, this this explaination is easier to digest. You're last sentence is a scary thought 49. I hope you're wrong on that one. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    although I agree there is plenty of "shared blame",  I don't know how anyone could come up with the logic that there's "equal blame".  The way in which the league started the process, guaranteed a bench clearing.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    although I agree there is plenty of "shared blame",  I don't know how anyone could come up with the logic that there's "equal blame".  The way in which the league started the process, guaranteed a bench clearing.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There's no doubt that the leagues opening offer was an insult and looking back,a big mistake.I know in contract negotiations both sides generally start with pie-in-the-sky opening salvos, but the NHL's offer started this whole negotiation off on the wrong foot.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    Very, very uneducated article. "Impeach" Bettman??..The Board of Governors (made up of owners) voted to lock out the players. Then the rest of the owners backed it 100%. The same owners who sign these players to contracts then say they can't afford them. The same people who vote for expansion, put teams in non-hockey markets, which is a significant reason why there is a lockout right now. Bettman is basically a lightining rod for the owners who have made numerous blunders.

    There is alot of blame to go around here, but for me, to just pin it on Bettman is naive. I also see Jacobs getting along of the blame. From what I've read, if more owners had run their franchise like Jacobs there would not be as many work stoppages if any, yet these two seemed to get raked over the coals in the court of public opinion.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Very, very uneducated article. "Impeach" Bettman??..The Board of Governors (made up of owners) voted to lock out the players. Then the rest of the owners backed it 100%. The same owners who sign these players to contracts then say they can't afford them. The same people who vote for expansion, put teams in non-hockey markets, which is a significant reason why there is a lockout right now. Bettman is basically a lightining rod for the owners who have made numerous blunders.

    There is alot of blame to go around here, but for me, to just pin it on Bettman is naive. I also see Jacobs getting along of the blame. From what I've read, if more owners had run their franchise like Jacobs there would not be as many work stoppages if any, yet these two seemed to get raked over the coals in the court of public opinion.

    [/QUOTE]

    Once in a blue moon Simmons writes an arcticle about hockey, must have needed a break from basketball and football, he should have just stayed out of it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    most of these kind of articles needn't be taken so literally.  there should be an element of interpretation.  the headline is just that.  something to grab attention.

    the writer makes "some' valid points.

    for whatever reason, labour unrest has been a huge issue while Bettman has been at the helm.  hostilities have never been higher since he came into play, and that's no way to grow a partnership(post cap era).

    of course it's not "all" his fault, but it's pretty near impossible to be successful when 2 groups are constantly pulling in opposite directions.  The guy at the top always gets pinned for both good and bad, and right or wrong, Bettman has cultivated an environment of mistrust, hate and confrontation.  None of his predacessors ever achieved his high water mark in those area's.  It's not hard to improve on that, and although those qualities were maybe needed a few years ago, a fresh start needs to be considered now.

    I think even Bettman knows that, and I wouldn't be surprised if he considers his options when this thing gets put to bed.  Players, Coaches and GM's have shelf lives.  League presidents do too.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    most of these kind of articles needn't be taken so literally.  there should be an element of interpretation.  the headline is just that.  something to grab attention.

    the writer makes "some' valid points.

    for whatever reason, labour unrest has been a huge issue while Bettman has been at the helm.  hostilities have never been higher since he came into play, and that's no way to grow a partnership(post cap era).

    of course it's not "all" his fault, but it's pretty near impossible to be successful when 2 groups are constantly pulling in opposite directions.  The guy at the top always gets pinned for both good and bad, and right or wrong, Bettman has cultivated an environment of mistrust, hate and confrontation.  None of his predacessors ever achieved his high water mark in those area's.  It's not hard to improve on that, and although those qualities were maybe needed a few years ago, a fresh start needs to be considered now.

    I think even Bettman knows that, and I wouldn't be surprised if he considers his options when this thing gets put to bed.  Players, Coaches and GM's have shelf lives.  League presidents do too.  

    [/QUOTE]


    great column from Simmons....  since Bettman's the one doing the talking, he needs to be the one taking the heat....

    stevegm, good points also....

    as for Bettman stepping down, i don't see him doing that himself but i do see a group of owners, not Jacobs, fed up of seeing the nhl become a part-time operation since his reign push him out the door....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    although I agree there is plenty of "shared blame",  I don't know how anyone could come up with the logic that there's "equal blame".  The way in which the league started the process, guaranteed a bench clearing.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    ^^^This I totally agree with. A lockout or a strike is supposed to be a last resort not a negotiating tatic. Then after there's no movement after a short period of time both parties should be willing to get a mediator. Which from what I've read so far the owners aren't willing to go there. I wonder why? 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    owners don't want a mediator because they don't want to comprimise....

    negotiations should be give & take but from what i've heard all the owners want is to take....

    in the past i've been moreso on the owners side, but not this time around....

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to days-of-Orr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    owners don't want a mediator because they don't want to comprimise....

    negotiations should be give & take but from what i've heard all the owners want is to take....

    in the past i've been moreso on the owners side, but not this time around....

    [/QUOTE]


    ditto

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The guy at the top always gets pinned for both good and bad, and right or wrong, Bettman has cultivated an environment of mistrust, hate and confrontation.  None of his predacessors ever achieved his high water mark in those area's.  It's not hard to improve on that, and although those qualities were maybe needed a few years ago, a fresh start needs to be considered now.

    I think even Bettman knows that, and I wouldn't be surprised if he considers his options when this thing gets put to bed.  Players, Coaches and GM's have shelf lives.  League presidents do too.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you think Ziegler and Campbell were popular?

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    most of these kind of articles needn't be taken so literally.  there should be an element of interpretation.  the headline is just that.  something to grab attention.

    the writer makes "some' valid points.

    for whatever reason, labour unrest has been a huge issue while Bettman has been at the helm.  hostilities have never been higher since he came into play, and that's no way to grow a partnership(post cap era).

    of course it's not "all" his fault, but it's pretty near impossible to be successful when 2 groups are constantly pulling in opposite directions.  The guy at the top always gets pinned for both good and bad, and right or wrong, Bettman has cultivated an environment of mistrust, hate and confrontation.  None of his predacessors ever achieved his high water mark in those area's.  It's not hard to improve on that, and although those qualities were maybe needed a few years ago, a fresh start needs to be considered now.

    I think even Bettman knows that, and I wouldn't be surprised if he considers his options when this thing gets put to bed.  Players, Coaches and GM's have shelf lives.  League presidents do too.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Bettman achieved a high water mark in revenues. And thats all that matters. Nothing else. If Bettman werent commisioner there proabably wouldnt be as many work stoppages because their wouldnt be that much money to fight over. Players can say what they want about him, but they make those salaries because of him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you think Ziegler and Campbell were popular?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Much "more" popular.  Absolutely, without question.  Do you think there'll ever be a Gary Bettman trophy? 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you think Ziegler and Campbell were popular?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Much "more" popular.  Absolutely, without question.  Do you think there'll ever be a Gary Bettman trophy? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wow, stevegm, that's quite a stretch.  What did the Prince of Wales do for the NHL?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you think Ziegler and Campbell were popular?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Much "more" popular.  Absolutely, without question.  Do you think there'll ever be a Gary Bettman trophy? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wow, stevegm, that's quite a stretch.  What did the Prince of Wales do for the NHL?

    [/QUOTE]

    WTF does that have to do with anything!  You asked a question about popularity!  Now would you like to debate the popularity of the Prince of Wales?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    most of these kind of articles needn't be taken so literally.  there should be an element of interpretation.  the headline is just that.  something to grab attention.

    the writer makes "some' valid points.

    for whatever reason, labour unrest has been a huge issue while Bettman has been at the helm.  hostilities have never been higher since he came into play, and that's no way to grow a partnership(post cap era).

    of course it's not "all" his fault, but it's pretty near impossible to be successful when 2 groups are constantly pulling in opposite directions.  The guy at the top always gets pinned for both good and bad, and right or wrong, Bettman has cultivated an environment of mistrust, hate and confrontation.  None of his predacessors ever achieved his high water mark in those area's.  It's not hard to improve on that, and although those qualities were maybe needed a few years ago, a fresh start needs to be considered now.

    I think even Bettman knows that, and I wouldn't be surprised if he considers his options when this thing gets put to bed.  Players, Coaches and GM's have shelf lives.  League presidents do too.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Bettman achieved a high water mark in revenues. And thats all that matters. Nothing else. If Bettman werent commisioner there proabably wouldnt be as many work stoppages because their wouldnt be that much money to fight over. Players can say what they want about him, but they make those salaries because of him.

    [/QUOTE]


    You're making a lot of assumptions there kel.  NBA revenues have increased better than the NHL's, in a shorter period of time, so maybe it isn't so much about Bettman.  There is absolutely nothing...anywhere... that suggessts the NHL's revenues are directly proportional to Bettmans employment situation with the league.

    There is no logic whatsoever....anywhere, that would support the notion that players make what they do because of Bettman, and it's pretty much accepted everywhere...that even if revenues were 2.2 billion....the league would no longer agree to 57%.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Good column from Grantland

    Lets see here the NHLs HRR wasn't nearly as good as it got too before Bettman but the growth is not "proportional to Bettmans employment situation"!? How dumb! Comparing the NBA to the NHL in revenues is like thinking "Ziegler and Campbell took the NHL to great hieghts". I'm sure you could get a few current owners,that were around pre-Bettman, to agree that they could care less about their commisioners poularity or how well  Ziegler plays cards with Allan Eagelson at a miniumum sercurity prison.

    The NHL board of govenors needed a commisioner who they could trust to start chipping away at the NBAs grasp of the US sports consumption market during the winter. Bettman has grown the league by leaps and bounds financially with the belief that the NHL will never  overtake the NBA or NFL but get some of the market compared to the lug-nuts Ziegler and Campbell.

    Being a commisioner of the big four leagues is about what the owners think of you not what the fans think. There wouldn't be a strike if Bettman wasn't in charge of the league because there would NO market growth for advertisors to come knocking. Jacobs, Illitch etc. took David Sterns reccomendation and the NHL HRR sky rocketed.

    Bettman does what the owners tell him to do as far as CBA negotiations. The owners don't have anything to do with Bettman when it comes to getting a major network like NBC to come onboard sign the biggets NHL TV contract in the history of the league after Ziegler and Campbell couldn't convince US major TV networks to stay the course.

    What did Ziegler and Campbell do to become so much more popular over Bettman ?

     
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