Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Hunwick - 56 gm. 1 goal 8 assists......cap hit 1,450,000
    Sturm    - 15 gm. 4 goals 4 assists..... cap hit 3,500,000
    Kobesew - 45 gm. 9 goals 4 assists.... cap hit 2,333,333

    That's over 7 mil. in cap space cleared up in dropping dead weight (recently)......Good job PC.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    People will argue he put himself in that situation because he signed them. I agree with you, he saw they were done and he did what needed to be done.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    In Response to Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for:
    People will argue he put himself in that situation because he signed them. I agree with you, he saw they were done and he did what needed to be done.
    Posted by callodthedom19
    If sturm and Kobesew where healthy I'd love to have them, but there injury prone ways kept getting worse and he still managed to move them, and as far as Hunwick goes a couple years ago he looked like he would be a real good player (to just about everybody) but that never worked out in boston, and in the short term doesn't look to good in colorado either.
    Good Gm's are not scared to make moves, and they don't always work out (in these cases due to injury and lack of performance) and then they need to find a way out, and PC has done that to the tune of over 7 mil.

    P.S  Sturm was not a health risk when signed.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoyalBlackNGold. Show LoyalBlackNGold's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    pauly didn't u feel like when both of those players were healthy here they were not only underachievers but also way to streaky? especially for those type of contracts is those numbers are correct.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 40YrsNoCup. Show 40YrsNoCup's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Right... Players he gave away for basically nothing because of his inept salary cap mangement... Thats a good thing?! WOW
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    40 - it's not "inept" just because you don't understand it.  Did he give away Sturm for nothing?  Sure.  Because Sturm was coming off a second catastrophic injury, had little return value, and didn't project to be a better option for the team than any of the players on the roster.  Hunwick was replacable by cheaper players in Kampfer and McQuaid - that's classic cap management.  When your younger, cheaper players are ready, you move the more expensive guys.  And they got a decent second round pick out of Minnesota for Chucky, who has never been the same player and probably wouldn't have had a role on this team.  So three assets that were easily replaces by younger, better, cheaper players were moved out for a decent prospect (Cohen) and a second round pick, clearing tons of salary cap room. 

    Said it before and I'll say it again - Chiarelli was cool as ice in the way he used every option in the CBA to manage the roster this year despite the "cap nightmares" a lot people thought would ruin the team.  Watch and learn asshopper.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from frankserpico. Show frankserpico's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    good moves 'PC"?

    are we talking about the same guy who traded kris versteeg for brandon bochenski?

    His drafts have been real good too.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    FRank good post, cause at the time of the trade everyone could see this coming, I mean bochenski was a more refined product at the time, less of a prospect, better size, better scorer, and versteeg was having a very good year in providence.. Bochenski scored 22 points in 33 games down the stretch for the bruins, that fact that 2 years later versteeg had a very good rookie season addresses little with what the bruins needed at the time..

    Similarly Colborne is still a good prospect but he isnt helping the bruins this year when they need it.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    In Response to Good moves "PC" gets little credit for:
    Hunwick - 56 gm. 1 goal 8 assists......cap hit 1,450,000 Sturm    - 15 gm. 4 goals 4 assists..... cap hit 3,500,000 Kobesew - 45 gm. 9 goals 4 assists.... cap hit 2,333,333 That's over 7 mil. in cap space cleared up in dropping dead weight (recently)......Good job PC.
    Posted by pauly1



    If memory recalls the B's also had some good years with these guys in the lineup so they did contribute in their time. Besides, it is easy to give away NHL calibre players for middle-round draft picks or nothing at all.

    Real accolades are reserved for when he actually gets something tangible in return for his salary dumps otherwise there is nothing wise in pure giveaways.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from john6345. Show john6345's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    These are the types of salary cap move that ever gm in the league is faced with.PC has been proactive when needed and has done a good job.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    In Response to Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for:
    Right... Players he gave away for basically nothing because of his inept salary cap mangement... Thats a good thing?! WOW
    Posted by 40YrsNoCup


    That's been my point.  I think he's done a solid job replacing those players, but the concept of not allocating money correctly or acquiring players with contracts you end up not liking, is on the GM.

    I find it odd some fans don't understand this.  Plugging one hole to fix another really isn't moving the team forward from a personnel standpoint.

    For every Hunwick, there is a Kampfer. For every Boychuk there is a McQuaid.

    For every Sturm or Kobasew there is a Ryder and Horton.

    And so on.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    In Response to Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for:
    In Response to Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for : That's been my point.  I think he's done a solid job replacing those players, but the concept of not allocating money correctly or acquiring players with contracts you end up not liking, is on the GM. I find it odd some fans don't understand this.  Plugging one hole to fix another really isn't moving the team forward from a personnel standpoint. For every Hunwick, there is a Kampfer. For every Boychuk there is a McQuaid. For every Sturm or Kobasew there is a Ryder and Horton. And so on.
    Posted by BBReigns


    BB, again, it's not that people "don't understand" what you are saying about cap management -- it's that all teams are imperfect but the Bruins and Chiarelli are a lot more efficient than others.  Many teams don't even spend to the cap, or have horrible contracts that tie their hands.  For the Bruins all you can find are a couple contract mistakes (Ryder, Shaeffer) or bad trades (Versteeg, who is a marginal 3rd line player BTW).

    For every player you point to on the Bruins roster who is overpaid, I can show you two that are underpaid, based on production (Krejci, Recchi, Rask, Marchand, etc).  You expect perfection, while others have more realistic expectations that the GM make more good trades than bad ones, make the team better each year, and manage the salary cap.  Chiarelli had done that.

    Instead of dreaming of some hypothetical GM who the Bruins could have hired instead of Chiarelli (a half-man, half unicorn figure perhaps), we need to be realistic about how he has been quite successful given his circumstances.

    GM's will make mistakes, and for fans to have expectations of perfection says more about them than it does Chiarelli.  I'll readily admit that (at the time):  I thought Shaeffer was a good signing; I thought Marchand should stay in Providence; I thought Recchi was too old; I would have dealt TT for offensive players, etc.  It's hard to predict these things correctly all of the time.  So I am not above a GM making mistakes here and there, other fans shouldn't be either.

    Look at the balance -- Chiarelli has way, way more successes than failures.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Fletch, BB comparing PC with Ainge, Belichick and Theo confirms the wondering of the wrong board and comparing apples n oranges. Most times wishing for the "a half-man, half unicorn figure" GM is all some posters have to hang onto like still blaming Sinden for Shero walking into Fleury, Malkin and Crosby instead of starting from scratch. BB just doesn't get that is the real reason not Sinden still being in Boston but of course some people like to complain and compare apples n oranges.

    Pauly, This all started with PC getting Ference and Kobasew from Calgary he saw something in them both when he realized Brad Stuart's wife was controlling where Brad would sign for his next contract. Stuart actually messed up all he got were one year deals for awhile. Chiarelli got 40 goals out of Kobasew then a 2011 2nd round pick from the Wild which could turn out to be another Spooner or Knight. Recognition of when to dump n start fresh with youth.

    Even if Chiarelli has to give 4.75Mil to Kaberle and 3Mil to Marchand he still will have about 3Mil under the 61Mil cap but complainers will say PC is no Belichick or Theo the sad state of some New England sports fans.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rmcd. Show rmcd's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    PC has done a fair job. I disagree with him philosophically in a few key areas.  I would avoid players with questionable motivation. Specifically that was the knock on both Ryder and Horton and they have both fallen into bad habits for much of their Bruins career.  Secondly, I disagreed with the Savard extension because I believe in the old Milt Schmidt adage to " get me guys that cant fit through the door". These undersized guys despite the good skills are just not physically built for the NHL. 

    On the other hand if this team grooms a Brad marchand or two every year, we will soon have a lineup full of tough, two way hockey players with enough skill, grit, and determination to compete against anyone.





     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    No, I specifically stated and acknowledged there are differen contexts due to the idea that the NBA is easier and of course MLB is, with no cap.

    LEARN TO READ.

    THANK YOU.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sgebhardt8. Show sgebhardt8's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    -Great post SanDog.  I was actually thinking about this yesterday.  What a lot of people don't understand when comparing GM's in this city from different sports is that Hockey has a hard cap, unlike the NBA and (laugh!) MLB.  Football has a hard cap but they also don't have guaranteed contracts and based on their revenues, their cap is huge.  So I agree that With what was left here after MOC, Chiarelli has done a great job.  Some of the contracts given out allowed the B's to be competitive right away while they focused on drafting and developing young talent.  This is why the B's are in such good shape today and looking ahead. 
    I still believe that secretly they believe their best window will be at it's peak in 2-3 years.  But they also see that they have a chance this year and are going for it, but not all in.  I think this is the right way to go.  Only part with the TOR pick for a can't miss.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    In Response to Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for:
    Fletch, BB comparing PC with Ainge, Belichick and Theo confirms the wondering of the wrong board and comparing apples n oranges. Most times wishing for the "a half-man, half unicorn figure" GM is all some posters have to hang onto like still blaming Sinden for Shero walking into Fleury, Malkin and Crosby instead of starting from scratch. BB just doesn't get that is the real reason not Sinden still being in Boston but of course some people like to complain and compare apples n oranges. Pauly, This all started with PC getting Ference and Kobasew from Calgary he saw something in them both when he realized Brad Stuart's wife was controlling where Brad would sign for his next contract. Stuart actually messed up all he got were one year deals for awhile. Chiarelli got 40 goals out of Kobasew then a 2011 2nd round pick from the Wild which could turn out to be another Spooner or Knight. Recognition of when to dump n start fresh with youth. Even if Chiarelli has to give 4.75Mil to Kaberle and 3Mil to Marchand he still will have about 3Mil under the 61Mil cap but complainers will say PC is no Belichick or Theo the sad state of some New England sports fans.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Glad to see someone other then me realize what actually happened at the time..You know what it would have cost to get Shero to walk away from  a chance to rebuild with those guys at the control of the franchise and come to boston for the chance (not a shot at him) to rebuild around bergeron?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Or, Jacobs could have paid more money for a proven commodity like Shero or a host of other HQ options who could have been lured from jobs.

    This is the point.  Good grief.

    Dale Tallon built the Blackhawks successfully and now has gone to Florida. How dare Dale Tallon want a new challenge and build around Stephen Weiss and David Booth?

    Right?

    How about MONEY?  He got paid.  Jacobs won't pay.

    The reality is, no one wants to work for Jacobs and Pitt offered Shero more money.

    Jacobs's reputation is well, well known around the NHL, folks.

    Shero, spent about 10 years learning.  Chiarelli? 2.

    Case closed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    In Response to Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for:
    -Great post SanDog. This is why the B's are in such good shape today and looking ahead.  I still believe that secretly they believe their best window will be at it's peak in 2-3 years.  But they also see that they have a chance this year and are going for it, but not all in.  I think this is the right way to go.  Only part with the TOR pick for a can't miss. Posted by sgebhardt8


    I believe this as well as I believe Jacobs will have to give PC another raise very soon...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Dave Tallon worked as an assistant GM for 2 years before being named the Blackhawks' GM.  Seems like that decision to hire an under-experience guy paid off.

    On topic, I think Chiarelli's philosophy is to over-buy, when possible, at least at the bottom part of the roster.  It's a risk management strategy.  You have your signed veteran, and you have a potential replacement.  You don't know that the replacement will pan out, though.  The veteran is your insurance policy against the foibles of youth.  If the youngster works out, you can trade the veteran, if necessary; or vice-versa.  It looks awful from a resource management perspective, because it means shipping out parts for less value in return, but it is a sensible way to make sure that the on-ice players are quality.  

    Also, in many of these cases the players Chiarelli trades away for little return would simply have been not signed - in which case there would have been no return.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    I agree except Tallon was in the organization.   I guess that is Jacobs fault for not having good infrastructure with the Sinden/O'Connell disaster.

    I used Tallon as an example because he was patient and then aggressive when he had to be.

    Chia JUST got to be aggressive moving in on the complementary parts needed to go for it.  Again, we'll see.

    The fact he just shipped out Stuart and Wheeler proves he overpaid in some facets.

    This is why how he does it/whom he pays is crucial.

    This is my point.

    Some here act like it's irrelevant in the process of building a team in the cap era.

    I am trying to figure out what cap leagues some of have been watching to completely ignore this aspect.

    Generally speaking Chia is:

    1. Good at making trades.
    2. Average at drafting.
    3. Sporadic/wild with allocating $$ for contracts.

    I don't know why my opinion is so offensive.  I feel this town deserves a top notch GM who, generally, is going to be strong in all 3 phases.

    I actually felt he did a good job on the Savard contract, by the way.   Thomas's is a risk that is working, Chara's is risky but had to be done, and he has the slew of others mentioned here a bunch that are the elephants in the room.





     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    The reason people get frustrated with your opinions is that you appear to be holding Chiarelli up to a standard of perfection, when a better comparison is with his peers.  Nearly every team ends up with elaphants in the room.

    Another reason is things like this from the Leighton thread:
    "My premise is one will be moved.  I could easily be wrong and it would only prove that Chiarelli doesn't get it as much as he thinks he does."

    Which implies that those of us that disagree that either Thomas or Rask should be moved don't get it either.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Ok, I can see that. 

    I actually see a lot of fans here thrilled with PC when his plan(s) for team building haven't really taken hold.  Some are sold, which is fine.

    Don't expect all fans to be sold.

    I mentioned the terrible O'Connell years with a drunken Sinden consulting as a context by comparison to maybe explain why fans think Chiarelli is so great.

    It had to be better than that. Had to be.

    I agree he is an improvement, but that doesn't mean he's fugured it out yet either.

    As for the Rask/Thomas issue, I am not sure how anyone who has ever played hockey would expect a #1 goalie to sit behind the other.  It has to be awkward other than the team goall of a Cup is there.

    This is why I said, it would make it easier to deal if they were to win the Cup.

    Rask will be do a new deal and Thomas makes 6 million per for 3 more years.

    I mean, what are fans not getting with that?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    I don't think your opinion is offensive, it just doesn't seem to be well researched.  Ray Shero was not an experienced GM.  Dave Tallon built a great team by being lousy for a decade, then ruined it with poor signings of Campbell and Hossa, and not allocating dollars for rookie bonuses, which caused the departure of players like Big Buff, Ladd and Versteeg (another over-pay by Tallon).  His signing of Christobal Huet was also a disaster that ownership had to swallow.  Chiarelli was sought-after because he was intelligent, had experience as an agent, and was the assistant GM of what was at the time the best team in hockey for years.  Stuart and Wheeler were shipped out not because they were expensive, but because they were the weakest links, and could get something good in return.  On a healthy team Wheeler was on the fourth line and Stuart in the press box.  If it was a pure money move someone else would have gone.  As far as the main topic goes, they were solid trades.  The Bruins got good use out of those players then dumped them at the best time.  PC has managed the cap well.  I don't know why people think the Ryder signing was so bad.  He is a solid contributor.  He would be better at 3 mil, but he's not grossly over-paid.  The Versteeg-Bochenski trade wasn't that bad either, and Bo looked real good until he went on the roids for a summer, gained 20 pounds and lost his puck skill.  The only real bad cap move that I can think of PC doing was brining in Manny Fernandez.  He was injured and over-paid, PC should have known better.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Good moves "PC" gets little credit for

    Ugh.  Thanks for reminding me of Fernandez.
     
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