1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:08 PM EDT

    They went 39 years without him and didn't win a Cup.  They went 4 months with him and did win a Cup.  Good enough for me.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:12 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : Disagree.  Winning the cup doesn't cure the common cold and it doesn't give the team a free pass on any and all moves.  It is possible that acquiring Kaberle was a bad trade.  We can debate it's merits without being psychotic. 
    Posted by scooter244

    Psychotic is a strong word. I simply meant a little slow. A "bad trade" that brought in the leading scorer on D(along with an instant transition game) along with the first Cup in nearly 4 decades........debate away my friend.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:22 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : Disagree.  Winning the cup doesn't cure the common cold and it doesn't give the team a free pass on any and all moves.  It is possible that acquiring Kaberle was a bad trade.  We can debate it's merits without being psychotic. 
    Posted by scooter244


    He played in every game, averaging 16 minutes, and they won the Cup.  If it wasn't him, it would have been a trade for someone else (or Bartkowski/Hnidy). 

    What did they give up?  The 30th pick, a second round pick, and a guy who was a big question mark to being with who put up 27 points in 61 career pro games.

    How is this not one of the easier deals to decide upon?  Even if Colborne goes crazy and starts winning Hart and Art Ross trophies, Kaberle played 16 minutes a game for 25 games and the B's won the Cup.


     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:44 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : He played in every game, averaging 16 minutes, and they won the Cup.  If it wasn't him, it would have been a trade for someone else (or Bartkowski/Hnidy).  What did they give up?  The 30th pick, a second round pick, and a guy who was a big question mark to being with who put up 27 points in 61 career pro games. How is this not one of the easier deals to decide upon?  Even if Colborne goes crazy and starts winning Hart and Art Ross trophies, Kaberle played 16 minutes a game for 25 games and the B's won the Cup.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Hey, I never said it was a bad trade, I just said it should be able to be debated.  Management can make 99 good moves and one bad one and still win the cup.  Winning doesn't make the 100th any better. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:46 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : Hey, I never said it was a bad trade, I just said it should be able to be debated.  Management can make 99 good moves and one bad one and still win the cup.  Winning doesn't make the 100th any better. 
    Posted by scooter244


    I thought we were talking specifically about the Kaberle deal.

    If the B's had traded five first round picks for him, I'd agree.  They didn't. They moved replaceable parts and won the Cup.

    Victory.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carltetus. Show carltetus's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:49 PM EDT

    Buffalo acquired Erhoff.

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 8:50 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : I thought we were talking specifically about the Kaberle deal. If the B's had traded five first round picks for him, I'd agree.  They didn't. They moved replaceable parts and won the Cup. Victory.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I think they overpaid a little, but all in all it was good. 
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 10:39 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : It is possible that acquiring Kaberle was a bad trade. We can debate it's merits without being psychotic. 
    Posted by scooter244


    Well, I can and you can... but I'm not sure NAS can. Seems to be his MO.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/29/2011 10:52 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : I thought we were talking specifically about the Kaberle deal. If the B's had traded five first round picks for him, I'd agree.  They didn't. They moved replaceable parts and won the Cup. Victory.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    Strongly agree that Boston traded replaceable parts. There's no way Colborne was going to crack Boston's top 2 lines, not scoring about 1/2 point per game played in the AHL. That's 3rd or 4th line NHL material.

    This year's draft people said that after the first 10 or so players drafted, the draft was weak, with there being a big dropoff in talent, so chances are the 30th pick wouldn't be anything more than a 3rd or 4th line NHL player either.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 1:10 AM EDT

    I'm not a Kaberle fan, but I don't mind the deal because of what resulted: A Cup.

    However, Colborne and (2nd rounder) flipped for J.M. Liles I can live without.
    I think that three or four years down the road we'll all be saying, "Tyler Biggs, wow! We could have had this guy."
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 6:23 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    I'm not a Kaberle fan, but I don't mind the deal because of what resulted: A Cup. However, Colborne and (2nd rounder) flipped for J.M. Liles I can live without. I think that three or four years down the road we'll all be saying, "Tyler Biggs, wow! We could have had this guy."
    Posted by Wheatskins


    I would imagine Leafs fans might be saying the same thing about Hamilton?
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 6:57 AM EDT

    I'm not sweating Liles (guy won me a pool one year, but what has he done for me lately?) and Biggs, as DrCC pointed out, didn't fall to 30.  Boston could only have had him if they'd wanted to make a two for one deal like Burke's to move up.

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 7:45 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : You couldn't be more right Nas. Those who complain about the"king's ransom" given up for Kaberle need to have their heads checked.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    Count me in as needing my head checked. I have seen Kaberle play enough ( living in Southern Ontario ) before he was traded to Boston to get an idea of what his tendencies are ( doesn't shoot enough on the PP when the opportunity is there and not the strongest player in the defensive zone ). Wasn't and am not a huge fan . And to compare the players and prospects that the Leafs got and say they have done nothing , well I don't buy that argument when veteran players are traded for future prospects . It is what it is for the team trading for the future and should not be judged in the present. 

    Having said all of that the Bruins won the cup with Kaberle and the Leafs got prospects for a player who will become a UFA. It is one of those deals where both teams benefit from it .
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishfinger. Show fishfinger's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 7:53 AM EDT

    Good post Chowdah..The B's won the cup and a rebuilding team got prospects
    and picks..That is the way it is supposed to work...

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CactusTonia. Show CactusTonia's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 8:09 AM EDT

    The Wiz will go to Detroit he told me!
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 8:18 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    The Wiz will go to Detroit he told me!
    Posted by CactusTonia


    Taking a wiz ? That's what I want to do too.........right on all of your posts.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 8:42 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : Count me in as needing my head checked. I have seen Kaberle play enough ( living in Southern Ontario ) before he was traded to Boston to get an idea of what his tendencies are ( doesn't shoot enough on the PP when the opportunity is there and not the strongest player in the defensive zone ). Wasn't and am not a huge fan . And to compare the players and prospects that the Leafs got and say they have done nothing , well I don't buy that argument when veteran players are traded for future prospects . It is what it is for the team trading for the future and should not be judged in the present.  Having said all of that the Bruins won the cup with Kaberle and the Leafs got prospects for a player who will become a UFA. It is one of those deals where both teams benefit from it .
    Posted by Chowdahkid-

    Chowdah, I posted an example of a similar trade on another thread. Who won the Weight(to the Oilers) for Tikannen(NYR cup win 94) trade. I think the answer is both teams. To lament what could've been while having finally won a cup makes no sense to me. Answer me this.......when did you foresee Colborne finally cracking the Boston lineup had he not been dealt? This year? Next year? Maybe the year after that? Colbrne and what amounts to basically two 2nd rounders for a player that helped put us over the top for a cup......I'd make the same deal again and again if it means winning. Obviously, I'm just a little easier to please than some of you guys. I believe it was Whitey Herzog who said that a good deal leaves both teams feeling ripped off. I think this deal qualifies as such.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 9:07 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : Chowdah, I posted an example of a similar trade on another thread. Who won the Weight(to the Oilers) for Tikannen(NYR cup win 94) trade. I think the answer is both teams. To lament what could've been while having finally won a cup makes no sense to me. Answer me this.......when did you foresee Colborne finally cracking the Boston lineup had he not been dealt? This year? Next year? Maybe the year after that? Colbrne and what amounts to basically two 2nd rounders for a player that helped put us over the top for a cup......I'd make the same deal again and again if it means winning. Obviously, I'm just a little easier to please than some of you guys.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    No answer to when Colborne or any of the others will make the NHL Dez . My crystal ball's on the fritz.Laughing But I do have a question for you . How many 3rd pairing defenceman ( which Kaberle ended up being , playing with Mcquaid ) have been traded for a former #1 pick, a 1st and 2nd rounder ? I think you are being a little generous with your wording when you say Kaberle put us over the top. He played 9:14 in the biggest game of his career and for all the marbles (  2 minutes less then any Bruin playing that night ). He contributed, yes. But put them over the top ? I duuno about that one. He was part of the team that won the cup without being a major factor which he was brought in to be. 

    BTW your posts are very enjoyable. I'd trade for you giving up NAS, shuperman and dauber.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 9:23 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : No answer to when Colborne or any of the others will make the NHL Dez . My crystal ball's on the fritz. But I do have a question for you . How many 3rd pairing defenceman ( which Kaberle ended up being , playing with Mcquaid ) have been traded for a former #1 pick, a 1st and 2nd rounder ? I think you are being a little generous with your wording when you say Kaberle put us over the top. He played 9:14 in the biggest game of his career and for all the marbles (  2 minutes less then any Bruin playing that night ). He contributed, yes. But put them over the top ? I duuno about that one. He was part of the team that won the cup without being a major factor which he was brought in to be.  BTW your posts are very enjoyable. I'd trade for you giving up NAS, shuperman and dauber.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-

    Chowdah, I'm in the camp that agreed with PC's assessment of Kaberle's game. It may not appear on the scoresheet but Kaberle has an ability to control the pace coming out on the breakout and through the neutral zone. While his point total may have been low(by Kaberle standards), his addition had an immediate impact on how Boston exited the zone. It seemed his demeanor even rubbed off on some of the others as we saw less of the forced breakouts that we were privvy to around midseason. Regarding your trade proposal, that sounds like a good way to get yourself fired........Wink
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 10:09 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : Chowdah, I'm in the camp that agreed with PC's assessment of Kaberle's game. It may not appear on the scoresheet but Kaberle has an ability to control the pace coming out on the breakout and through the neutral zone. While his point total may have been low(by Kaberle standards), his addition had an immediate impact on how Boston exited the zone. It seemed his demeanor even rubbed off on some of the others as we saw less of the forced breakouts that we were privvy to around midseason. Regarding your trade proposal, that sounds like a good way to get yourself fired........
    Posted by dezaruchi


    That's a good assessment on the thing that Kaberle did do well. Other things when he was on the ice were difficult for me understand why PC was in love with him to give up what he did for Kaberle.

    Just having fun with the message board trade proposal. Futures for a solid player ?
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 10:20 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : That's a good assessment on the thing that Kaberle did do well. Other things when he was on the ice were difficult for me understand why PC was in love with him to give up what he did for Kaberle. Just having fun with the message board trade proposal. Futures for a solid player ?
    Posted by Chowdahkid-

    I'd be lucky to fetch a 9th rounder. I'd probably be the first unpaid guy to be moved in a salary dump.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 11:12 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : No answer to when Colborne or any of the others will make the NHL Dez . My crystal ball's on the fritz. But I do have a question for you . How many 3rd pairing defenceman ( which Kaberle ended up being , playing with Mcquaid ) have been traded for a former #1 pick, a 1st and 2nd rounder ? I think you are being a little generous with your wording when you say Kaberle put us over the top. He played 9:14 in the biggest game of his career and for all the marbles (  2 minutes less then any Bruin playing that night ). He contributed, yes. But put them over the top ?I duuno about that one. He was part of the team that won the cup without being a major factor which he was brought in to be.  BTW your posts are very enjoyable. I'd trade for you giving up NAS, shuperman and dauber.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-


    I am very much of the fence with this one.  I'm still not sure. 
    I liked the things the praiser's are saying about Tomas.  He did help the breakout's.  I am hoping he re-signs at a reasonable #, significantly less than he made last year.
    The thing I question is how many others could have provided what Kaberle did for less money and at a lower cost of acquisition?  The elusive PMD.  Was he that much better than say Wideman (just as an example)?  Dennis may have been better defensively.  Who else could have been had or did PC focus exclusively on Kaberle?  We'll never know.  
    And finally, no i would not be willing to go back and try something different to see how it all played out.  I pretty happy with this version of reality.  Still, it deserves discussion.   
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle

    posted at 6/30/2011 11:33 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle:
    In Response to Re: Goodbye Tomas Kaberle : I am very much of the fence with this one.  I'm still not sure.  I liked the things the praiser's are saying about Tomas.  He did help the breakout's.  I am hoping he re-signs at a reasonable #, significantly less than he made last year. The thing I question is how many others could have provided what Kaberle did for less money and at a lower cost of acquisition?  The elusive PMD.  Was he that much better than say Wideman (just as an example)?  Dennis may have been better defensively.  Who else could have been had or did PC focus exclusively on Kaberle?  We'll never know.   And finally, no i would not be willing to go back and try something different to see how it all played out.  I pretty happy with this version of reality.  Still, it deserves discussion.   
    Posted by scooter244


    Good post and well put. Agreed !