Habs Offer To Subban.
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Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 6:21 PM EDT
- Bookboy007
- Posts: 6315
- First: 7/8/2009
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I'd also suggest that Subban would not play that many minutes if the Shabby blueline wasn't at awful as it has been. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 7:27 PM EDT
- nitemare-38
- Posts: 3913
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : He scored seven goals last season. (not in order) 1. wrist shot from between the circles with no traffic 2. one timer from the circle on a 5 on 3 3. one timer from top of the circle on a 5 on 3 4. two on one from below the hash marks (rush created by Subban) I can't find the other three. Either way, let's not get so high on this kid's jock. If a player scores seven goals, he deserves no praise for his scoring ability.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
You're being stubborn. Forget what he did last season. What d-man his age & his talent & upside is better? Does this mean you disagree with what Seguin is going to get in his next contract if he has a bad season? When he matures & stops his foolishness I think he'll be a Norris contender. Right now he deserves more than what the Habs are offering. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 8:37 PM EDT
- RichHillOntario
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : I just have a hard time respecting a punk that picks fights then hides behind the refs. The kid does have skill, I just don't like any Hab players.
Posted by jpBsSoxFan
jp - I'm in total agreement with you on this. I can't stand that gutless part of his game. Along with hoping the Bruins beat the Habs each time they play I watch for the chance to see him get caught by say Lucic with one of his trademark sledgehammer checks into the boards. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 8:39 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : You're being stubborn. Forget what he did last season. What d-man his age & his talent & upside is better? Does this mean you disagree with what Seguin is going to get in his next contract if he has a bad season? When he matures & stops his foolishness I think he'll be a Norris contender. Right now he deserves more than what the Habs are offering.
Posted by nitemare-38
If Seguin takes a step back next season, instead of a vault forward, his contract will most certainly be lower.
Forget what Subban did last season? So you want to pay him like a veteran based upon his rookie year and how you think he'll turn out? I doubt he'll turn into a legit Norris contender (the true best defenseman) because I don't think he'll be the shut down option for anyone. Maybe he'll get a Karlsson-like Norris vote if he can get some more offense.
I didn't watch a ton of Habs games, so I can't say if he had a lot of errors over the season, but I know his antics and play weren't star material vs. Boston. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 8:44 PM EDT
- RichHillOntario
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : This is why Subban should laugh at the offer as of today he is better than all three of those defenseman.
Posted by SanDogBrewin
I would say his importance to the team is as meaningful as Markov, Jorges and Kaberle. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 9:19 PM EDT
- nitemare-38
- Posts: 3913
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : jp - I'm in total agreement with you on this. I can't stand that gutless part of his game. Along with hoping the Bruins beat the Habs each time they play I watch for the chance to see him get caught by say Lucic with one of his trademark sledgehammer checks into the boards.
Posted by RichHillOntario
Me neither, but when he sticks to playing hockey the way that he can he's a joy to watch. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 9:24 PM EDT
- SanDogBrewin
- Posts: 14444
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : He scored seven goals last season. Either way, let's not get so high on this kid's jock. If a player scores seven goals, he deserves no praise for his scoring ability. Posted by Not-A-Shot
"Goal production for a young defenseman is a bonus but isn't something I would look at in judgement of how good a young player is or not."
^Since you conveniently skipped over it^. I understand your stance of looking at this through the eyes of an armchair GM and you think you need to keep him at a reasonable contract. But 21 goals in his first two seasons in the NHL is really good for 23 year old defenseman but that is not why PK is better than Kaberle, Gorges and Markov, who happen to be paid more than him. I wrote about his play away for the puck which is quite good.
Playing the blueline in the NHL is very difficult so you can't compare him to "a player" becuase of his young age and Subban is already better than all three of those stiffs that are over paid on the Shabs right now. Repeating to me something that doesn't matter to me when judging a young defenseman is dumb.
If you can't see how good PK is by "watching him" or can't see why Subban scoffed at Montréal's offer then I'll need to stop reading your opinions of the PBruins this season cause you are conveniently blind for arguments sake. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 9:38 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
- First: 12/30/2009
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : I would say his importance to the team is as meaningful as Markov, Jorges and Kaberle.
Posted by RichHillOntario
Kaberle is there until someone else takes him.
They didn't write that contract, so using it as a measuring stick is incorrect. That would be like suggesting that Max Pac is receiving subpar dollars because Gomez is earning $X.
Jack Johnson's second contract was two years $2.85M.
Alex Edler played three years at $550,000 then got a four year deal for $3.25M/yr. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 9:41 PM EDT
- nitemare-38
- Posts: 3913
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : If Seguin takes a step back next season, instead of a vault forward, his contract will most certainly be lower. Forget what Subban did last season? So you want to pay him like a veteran based upon his rookie year and how you think he'll turn out? I doubt he'll turn into a legit Norris contender (the true best defenseman) because I don't think he'll be the shut down option for anyone. Maybe he'll get a Karlsson-like Norris vote if he can get some more offense. I didn't watch a ton of Habs games, so I can't say if he had a lot of errors over the season, but I know his antics and play weren't star material vs. Boston.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
No, but I think his value considering his TOI is the most on the team is worth more than what was offered. Why does he get the most? It's not because he isn't a valuable asset. It's because the Habs coaching staff knows that he has the ability to help them win moreso than cause them to lose. And the Norris trophy has gone to the d-man who examplifies the best offense. I don't agree with this, because you're right it should go to the best d who shows the best all around game. Karlsson IMO doesn't even come close Chara in the all around game. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/3/2012 10:13 PM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. :
blah blah blah
Posted by SanDogBrewin
He may be a very good defenseman in the future, but in today's game, he's certainly not better than a healthy Markov and isn't nearly as solid and/or reliable as Gorges.
Like many others, I dislike the idea of paying someone many extra millions of dollars because they could/may/might/should turn into XYZ. The fact is that he's not there yet. For him to be looking at close to $3M/yr after playing two seasons should be fantastic news for the PK household. Instead, it's "yeah, but..." -
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Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 1:09 AM EDT
- OatesCam
- Posts: 2830
- First: 8/19/2010
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Fun suggestion. Hamilton may never be what Subban is... he may completely flame out. I don't make that trade for anything though. My reason is simple, and it's the same as why the Bruins clearly win the Seguin/Kessel trate: Hamilton is 4 years younger. In a league with RFA/UFA and a Cap, every year a player is further from free agency or decline makes them a more valuable asset. A 19 year old phenom with a very good chance of being a top NHL defensman is more valuable than a 23 year old established top defensman. The teenager is worth 4 more NHL seasons than the vet. If Hamilton wasn't as highly touted, if PK was better, or if the one thing standing between the Bruins and a Stanley Cup was a proven top-pairing, scoring D, I would consider the move, but as it stands you'e giving up too much.
In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:Would you do Hamilton for P.K for straight up? Nobody is going to say yes in here, but I'd have to think about that one.
Posted by kelvana33 -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 7:57 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
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10 Reasons To Trade Hamilton for Subban:
(Not in order)
Branislav Mezei
Rotislav Klesla
Mike Komisarek
Joni Pitkanen
Ryan Whitney
Bryan Allen
Vitaly Vishnevsky
Cam Barker
Ladislav Smid
Paul Mara -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 9:31 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
- First: 12/30/2009
- Last: 5/18/2013
In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In a league with RFA/UFA and a Cap, every year a player is further from free agency or decline makes them a more valuable asset.
Posted by OatesCam
I think the 23 year old Seguin, regardless of his cap hit, will be significantly more valuable than the 19 year old Seguin.
I'm sure Lucic now is a more valuable asset than Lucic at 19.
I'm sure Bergeron now is more valuable than Bergeron at 19.
I'm sure Marchand now is more valuable than Marchand at 19.
I'm sure Chara now is more valuable than Chara at 19. -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 10:30 AM EDT
- heyoo
- Posts: 496
- First: 5/27/2012
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : If Seguin takes a step back next season, instead of a vault forward, his contract will most certainly be lower. Forget what Subban did last season? So you want to pay him like a veteran based upon his rookie year and how you think he'll turn out? I doubt he'll turn into a legit Norris contender (the true best defenseman) because I don't think he'll be the shut down option for anyone. Maybe he'll get a Karlsson-like Norris vote if he can get some more offense. I didn't watch a ton of Habs games, so I can't say if he had a lot of errors over the season, but I know his antics and play weren't star material vs. Boston.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
Thank God your not the Gm of the bruins, you think that seguin will make less than his 3.5mil cap hit. He would be taken with an offer sheet in two seconds. Kid could only score 50pts this year and he could still command 4-4.5mil range. Nice try though.... -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 10:56 AM EDT
- SanDogBrewin
- Posts: 14444
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: in today's game isn't nearly as solid and/or reliable as Gorges. Posted by Not-A-Shot
That's absolutely terrible scouting right there! -
This post has been removed.
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Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 11:06 AM EDT
- BsLegion
- Posts: 11856
- First: 12/28/2008
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : He may be a very good defenseman in the future, but in today's game, he's certainly not better than a healthy Markov and isn't nearly as solid and/or reliable as Gorges.
Like many others, I dislike the idea of paying someone many extra millions of dollars because they could/may/might/should turn into XYZ. The fact is that he's not there yet. For him to be looking at close to $3M/yr after playing two seasons should be fantastic news for the PK household. Instead, it's "yeah, but..."
Posted by Not-A-Shot
As fans we might dislike that but GMs have been doing it at an escalating level year after year.
Bergervin has already offered more to Subban on his 2nd contract compared to his peers and that's just an initial offer. That's the market, keeps going up.
Not sure what the new CBA will be but I'm starting to think that these negotiations are more to put a leash on these GMs because they do not know how to control themselves with the check book.
Rest assured Subban is probably okay with the money, he just wants a longer term. -
This post has been removed.
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Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 11:14 AM EDT
- BsLegion
- Posts: 11856
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : I think you're right....he wants a longer term. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by bellhorn_
what's with those pics ? At least post the Bruins 1st rounder (Subban) not someone that scored a lucky goal after TT was interfered and pushed into his goal.
We get it , you're African American, at least post Evander Kane or even Simmonds but Ward ??? He's under achieved for the money he makes. -
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Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 11:28 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : what's with those pics ? At least post the Bruins 1st rounder (Subban) not someone that scored a lucky goal after TT was interfered and pushed into his goal. We get it , you're African American, at least post Evander Kane or even Simmonds but Ward ??? He's under achieved for the money he makes.
Posted by BsLegion
Here's that jerk's trick:
It posts something in agreement and then posts a "hurtful" picture. And clearly, the sight of Joel Ward ruins my day. Typical Sox fan. They don't understand B's fans. Mention Aaron Boone, Grady Little, Bucky Dent, Bill Buckner, Babe Ruth or any other bad guy and Sox fans cry in the corner.
This one thinks that pics of Joel Ward will get the same reaction. It shows a lack of understanding and a lack of maturity. Using the ignore option is useful so you don't waste time. Responding to it is the worst option. -
This post has been removed.
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Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/4/2012 1:22 PM EDT
- BsLegion
- Posts: 11856
- First: 12/28/2008
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : Here's that jerk's trick: It posts something in agreement and then posts a "hurtful" picture. And clearly, the sight of Joel Ward ruins my day. Typical Sox fan. They don't understand B's fans. Mention Aaron Boone, Grady Little, Bucky Dent, Bill Buckner, Babe Ruth or any other bad guy and Sox fans cry in the corner. This one thinks that pics of Joel Ward will get the same reaction. It shows a lack of understanding and a lack of maturity. Using the ignore option is useful so you don't waste time. Responding to it is the worst option.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
ZTT -
Re: Habs Offer To Subban.
posted at 8/5/2012 10:10 AM EDT
- Not-A-Shot
- Posts: 13979
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In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban.:In Response to Re: Habs Offer To Subban. : Thank God your not the Gm of the bruins, you think that seguin will make less than his 3.5mil cap hit. He would be taken with an offer sheet in two seconds. Kid could only score 50pts this year and he could still command 4-4.5mil range. Nice try though....
Posted by heyoo
No. Pay attention.
Seguin will make less if he takes a step back this year than he would if he didn't.