Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    In Response to Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?:
    [QUOTE]I want to start this thread by saying, let's not get personal and ugly here.  I know I upset people when I critcize TT here.  This thread isn't about that.  I'm really trying to keep my opinions without the brawls. I've been watching the B's since the 60's, played goal wearing the same mask Cheevers and Johnston wore.  There's been goaltending "controversies" in Boston over the years: Cheevers/Johnston, Moog/Lemlelin, but this Thomas vs Rask thing has generated pure nasty vitriol by the supporters of one vs the other. This summer there were posters here who said out loud that they hoped Rask would fail so TT could get another shot. Rask supporters have been merciless vs TT as well.  NOTE: everyone knows how much I dislike TT, but I don't give Rask a pass just because I'd rather see him playing. Anyone ever recall a goaltending issue (or for that matter, ANY Bruins player issue) that have pit Bruins fans' against each other to this level of political-style mudslinging?
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]
    How about most of the players on the team.We've had folks suggest Paille should see more ice than Seguin,Bergeron and Savard to the 4th line,and now some suggest Rask to the minors.As a whole,we Bruins fans are a fickle bunch.I'm not sure a Stanley Cup win would put a stop to the bickering but I'm dying to find out.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    In Response to Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies? : How about most of the players on the team.We've had folks suggest Paille should see more ice than Seguin,Bergeron and Savard to the 4th line,and now some suggest Rask to the minors.As a whole,we Bruins fans are a fickle bunch.I'm not sure a Stanley Cup win would put a stop to the bickering but I'm dying to find out.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE] This  ^^^ 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    Look at it this way. it's not hate between the two goalies, or hating one goalie v. liking another. This is about winning and losing. Rask deserved to be the No. 1 goalie last year and despite his breakdown (along with the rest of the team) v. Philly, he probably was the best bet for the team to win. But that was because Thomas was an injured goalie who was not ever at 100 percent last season. But Thomas is a Vezina Trophy winner, experienced and certainly deserved the opportunity to win his job back. This should be a great duo, but instead what you have is Rask clearly, clearly failing at the No. 2 role.

    He just is not playing up to snuff. Thomas went out grabbed the job and has run away with the 1st half Vezina of all goalies in the entire league. Thomas is getting tired though, he has flopped more than usual over the past few games, maybe a sign of fatigue.

    That's why right now the B's need to actually demote Rask and bring in an Alex Auld type No. 2. The best backup goalies are the ones who can go 6 or 7 games between starts and at least give you a solid effort. I'm not seeing solid efforts by Rask, and v. Buffalo he looked like he was asleep in the 1P, hence the yank by Julien.

    To try to do a 20-20 hindsight on this is futile. You can't play one, then play th e other right now. Why? Because the other is killing the team with poor efforts. This is not a Moog-Lemelin, Cheevers-Johnston. It's actually quite unusual to have a goalie go into the tank the way Rask has. It's scary almost how much his level of play has dropped from last year regular season.

    Thomas needs rest, and the only way he can get that rest and still allow the B's a chance to win the non-Thomas starts is find another 2nd goalie. Rask can always come back into the fold, and even maybe be a starter again by 2011-2012. But right now, he's unreliable. You can't blame Julien for not wanting to put his team behind the 8-ball by playing Rask. It's up to Chiarelli to simply go out and get a 2nd goalie, or carry 3 goalies if need be.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    Some people even believe that we should have picked up Torres as a Free Agent.

    I make no bones about the fact that I said TT would be needed.  There were many who thought Rask was better than Miller.  I argued in vain.  One half season does not make a career.  I believe we are very fortunate to have both.  TT near the end will hopefully show Rask the way.  To me its a win-win situation.

    As for Seguin.  I predicted he wouldn't be a huge factor this year.  I believed he was heading back to junior.  In fact I argued that point as well. 

    As far as stirring the pot I like doing it.  I have battled with Dez and N-O-T and Sandog and enjoy it b/c they know their hockey.  We always kiss and make up in the end.  If everyone on here argreed with everything it would be snoresville.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SteveM. Show SteveM's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    I like them both. Rask is the future hopefully. Tim is the man at the moment. Rask needs some ice time and pucks somehwere, which is why I posted this in another one of the multiple threads on this hot topic:

    Posts: 119
    First: 1/2/2010
    Last: 1/2/2011

    PC/CJ hat on here:

    Start Rask in both the 1/3 and 1/6 games for the B's. Then send him down to Providence to start both of their home games on 1/7 and 1/9. P-Bruins also have a road game on 1/8 if he is up to it. Recall him to the B's after the 1/9 game. Rotate hm and Thomas for the rest of January as the B's have a pretty heavy schedule. My .02's

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    Hey, the guy led the NHL in save percentage and goals against last year. But he's playing so opposite of that right now that it's not about his talent level or his ability. It's, like I said, about wins and losses. Rask is a loss in goal thus far this season. Forgiving him for his truly weak effort v. Buffalo is to me an example of looking the other way or apologizing for the fact he's been beyond mediocre for most of his starts. Thomas was terrible last night, but he would never have had to play that game, nor should he have even been prepared to play that game, especially when his team SCORED FOUR GOALS in the first period. Get another backup for now and let Rask work things out in the minors. He's done that before in his career, he can right himself with starts there.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from brunod. Show brunod's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    After last seasons post season loss to Philly, I think Rask lost his confidence there. Rask needs to play and get a few wins, he could best do that with the Pbruins since their goaltendening is not that good and they need some wins to get back in a playoff spot. Rask could help them get that winnig attitude and also help the young guys down there learn what winning is like in the pro's. The Bruins do not have a goalie to back up TT if Rask goes down to help the Pbruins so Rask will have to find a way to get back to the form he was. With no cap space the Bruins can't get a suitable backup.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?


    I wasn't really trying to start another TT vs Rask thread... I was mostly observing the nasty, I mean nasty interaction between supporters of each goalie by Bruins' fans. I have never, ever seen anything like it.  Yes, people argue about dumping players like Wideman, Ryder or Julien, but I see people just clearly root for Rask to fail just so TT have look better and vice-versa.

    That said, I'll guess I'll comment on:


    "To try to do a 20-20 hindsight on this is futile. You can't play one, then play th e other right now. Why? Because the other is killing the team with poor efforts. This is not a Moog-Lemelin, Cheevers-Johnston. It's actually quite unusual to have a goalie go into the tank the way Rask has. It's scary almost how much his level of play has dropped from last year regular season."

    "Right now Rask looks like another Steve Mason. Stronger NHL rookie seasons than what their pre NHL seasons would suggest, then bad sophomore seasons. Glad PC gave Rask that low contract last year. He probably does need to go down to Providence to figure things out."


    I just simply do not agree with these positions.  Rask simply has not been given a fair shake this year. How can you call him a Steve Mason, who was a Vezina finalist (adnmittedly in a very weak field) but was the clear #1 goalie and played himself out of a job by just stinking the place out the first 1/2 the next year? 

    Rask came into this season the apparent #1 (the B's did try to trade Thomas and his contract, too) played ONE GAME... he gave up goals in 2 periods of ONE GAME and has not been considered the starter since.  And even though he has been mediocre this year, he has not, up until last night's Buffalo game, been terrible.  And I'm sorry, but a guy that's been rotting on the bench for weeks looking shaky needs to finish the game, not yank him out of there.  That wasnt fair to either Rask or Thomas.

    I had a buddy at the game last night and he was shocked that Miller was still in the game at the beginning of the second and Rask wasnt.  But Miller had the chance to settle down and work it out. 

    I am not defending Rask as playing well...he's not...  but there is no way you could describe his play this year as "killing the team" and "scary" and "Steve Mason" like.  Thats just wrong.

    I would think about letting him work it out in the minors.  I've been suggesting trading him for a while now, but CJ has ruined his head so badly right now I dont think he'd bring back the return he should.  Some smart GM would snap him up and he'd be a franchise goalie somewhere.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from olsonstephanie. Show olsonstephanie's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    Don't you dare send him to the minors.  Play him
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    well, i disagree, Illini. If your team scores 4 goals in a period, how is it that his team let him down? I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying that I've been reading a lot on this forum about Rask being left to fend for himself. If the Buffalo game was a litmus test for Tuuka, then so be it. He needed to allow his team at least a 2-goal cushion for it scoring 4. What more do you want for confidence sakes than a 4-goal 1st period on your first start in a while??? I mean are we watching the same goalie? I don't get it. Where is Tuuka? What happened to him? Take a look at his 11 starts, and how many times he allowed a goal moments after the B's scored for him. It's a quite a few, including the Buffalo game after a nice 1-0 lead to start things. I just don't get why there is so much love for Tuuka when he's playing IHL level. This is the NHL, you either make some brilliant saves or you don't. You either keep your team in the game or your don't. He is not keeping his team in games. At all.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    In Response to Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?:
    [QUOTE]well, i disagree, Illini. If your team scores 4 goals in a period, how is it that his team let him down? I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying that I've been reading a lot on this forum about Rask being left to fend for himself. If the Buffalo game was a litmus test for Tuuka, then so be it. He needed to allow his team at least a 2-goal cushion for it scoring 4. What more do you want for confidence sakes than a 4-goal 1st period on your first start in a while??? I mean are we watching the same goalie? I don't get it. Where is Tuuka? What happened to him? Take a look at his 11 starts, and how many times he allowed a goal moments after the B's scored for him. It's a quite a few, including the Buffalo game after a nice 1-0 lead to start things. I just don't get why there is so much love for Tuuka when he's playing IHL level. This is the NHL, you either make some brilliant saves or you don't. You either keep your team in the game or your don't. He is not keeping his team in games. At all.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    Danny you keep repeating this 4 goal 1st period stat but the fact remains-Rask gave up only 3.You say he didn't give his team a chance to win but they were leading when he exitted.TT has been great this year,No argument but last night wasn't one of the times.Blame Rask all you want but TT(rightly so)took the loss.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    "Look at it this way. it's not hate between the two goalies, or hating one goalie v. liking another. This is about winning and losing." BINGO!

    and also developing a young goalie to take over this team that can't be done when your future franchise goalie doesn't have the trust of his coach and he doesn't trust his coach.

    Next fall Chiarelli has to extend Krejci and Rask so the summer of 2012 Thomas has to be sent packing because Boston won't be able to afford both goalies under PCs current "goalie allotment" expense around 7Mil.

    Right now Rask plays every what ? 14 days or 6 games about ? How is that grooming a goalie to become confident ? It is not happening it's counter productive. I like both goalies allot but they have to stay sharp so one can't be a little tired (Thomas is) or Rusty (Tuukka definitely is) because he doesn't play enough.

    I know allot of Gms would love to have Chiarelli's problem but they wouldn't like the way the coach is using these two very capable netminders is all.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    In Response to Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?:
    [QUOTE]"Look at it this way. it's not hate between the two goalies, or hating one goalie v. liking another. This is about winning and losing." BINGO! and also developing a young goalie to take over this team that can't be done when your future franchise goalie doesn't have the trust of his coach and he doesn't trust his coach. Next fall Chiarelli has to extend Krejci and Rask so the summer of 2012 Thomas has to be sent packing because Boston won't be able to afford both goalies under PCs current "goalie allotment" expense around 7Mil. Right now Rask plays every what ? 14 days or 6 games about ? How is that grooming a goalie to become confident ? It is not happening it's counter productive. I like both goalies allot but they have to stay sharp so one can't be a little tired (Thomas is) or Rusty (Tuukka definitely is) because he doesn't play enough. I know allot of Gms would love to have Chiarelli's problem but they wouldn't like the way the coach is using these two very capable netminders is all.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    I agree!
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

       To the original post, I believe you can blame the internet, and talk radio, for the increased level of "goaltending controversies".
    We, as fans, have never had access to such a large audience. that we could subject to all our inane rants.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruWingFan. Show BruWingFan's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    I don't have any animosity towards either Bruins goalie.

    Rask struggled early on and Thomas was playing absolutely lights out. He still is to some point but there are chinks showing up in the armor. While Thomas isn't the most technically sound goalie, he has a style that works for him. He is better at keeping his game in control. If you look closely you will see that. The acrobatics are a reaction to a development in the play, rather than making up for weak positioning on his part. Bottom line... the guy wins. He said early on that his goal was to reclaim the #1 spot and he went out and did just that.

    Rask is a talented kid with an extremely bright future ahead of him in the Black and Gold. A lot will happen over the next 2 seasons with Tuukka. He will have his ups and downs. If he puts in the work he will be among the best in the NHL. But he's not there yet. He has to accept the fact that he lost the #1 spot because of his shaky play and Thomas' domination early on. He has to be sure he's ready to be at his absolute best when given the chance and with few exceptions, he hasn't been there.

    Yes, I firmly believe that Rask must play more often. On most teams I believe he would be. But with Thomas playing so well there wasn't much CJ could do. You play the goalie that you believe gives you the best chance to win. If CJ were to play Rask more often, and the B's lose, we'd be criticizing him for playing Rask.

    The Bruins will need both goalies to be at their best if they are going to have any success this season. The talent is there in both goalies. Neither is capable of playing 70 games. CJ and Co. need to find the right rotation to get the best out of Thomas and Rask.

       
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    biggskye - there's a lot in what you say.  Opinions are like cockroaches - they infest, and they spread.  How many times have you seen a critical opinion repeated endlessly like an infection spread through the blogosphere.  Sadly, these viral opinions are rarely insightful and boil down to familiar formulas like "x's contract is too high" or "y is another [insert famous failure]".

    Hard to argue playing Thomas.  If you were writing a textbook on "how to steal back the starting job", you'd use his first 10 games as a case study.  Three shutouts in his first six games, didn't lose a game until his tenth start.  How do you take a guy out when he's an even money bet for a shutout?  And once he's played 10 of 12, doesn't the other guy need to come back strong?  Thomas cooled off, but even over the last 20, with that huge start out of consideration, he's got a 2.10 GAA.  That would drop him all the way down to...second in the league.  By comparison, Rask has given up 3 or more goals in 7 of his 11 appearances, or 7 of 10 if you take away the Capitals game where he played the third period.  This team doesn't score 4 goals very often, so if he's giving up 3 70% of the time, they're not going to win many of his starts.

    There's probably a Mason-like element here where Rask has been scouted hard.  The Shab game where they put everything up high was a sure sign there's a book. When Rask isn't on, he relies too heavily on that butterfly and leaves a small hole over his shoulders because he doesn't keep his body vertical enough.  That isn't something to correct during games.  It's mental, it's practice fodder.  He needs another chance really soon to get some traction, but this isn't a Seguin situation where playing more might help.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    To SoxFan's original point: Phil Kessel.  Joe Thornton.  Both had to leave before the discussion got really heated, but it wouldn't take much to stoke the coals and watch this board light up with that same old freakin' Kessel debate.

    But you probably only see this kind of red vs. blue debate with goaltenders, though.  Well...maybe in Pittsburgh they have Crosby/Malkin.  And in a few years, if the Laffs stay in the tank, there might be a "salary cap means we can only keep one: Seguin or Couturier/Landeskog" debate.  Otherwise, it's rare to pit two players against each other that starkly because there's so much mobility up and down the lineup.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    why don't people jus SSTTFFUU and root for whoever is in net.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Has there ever been so much animosity regarding Bruins' goalies?

    ONce again IMO, remote as it might be, In the early St. Louis game we all saw the Rask we were expecting, then Timmy went bizarre, and after a while, Tuuka was presented with New york, where early "bounces" probably had him talking to himself, but still confident. From then on he was rarely seen as Timmy continued to play brilliantly. Peter claimed that his goalie tandem was the best.However, noone thought, least of all Careful Claude, that leaving a young, impressionable goalie on the bench would cause questionable play. OOOPs we expected Claude to THINK. Sorry folks, we do not have a very flexible, innovative leader behind the bench. So, what are the Bruins options? The REd SOX would send Tuuka down to the minors for a 3/4 game tune up. Can the Bruins do that?? or are waivers and possible loss entailed ?? If they could, Tuuka could use the work and Providence could use the help.
     
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