here's some interesting stats!!!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from macdogcharm. Show macdogcharm's posts

    here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    "assuming" that our healthy forward lines are as follows....here is a mid-season (literally) breakdown of our 4 lines....
    and despite Campbell's 3 point effort tonight (which is included in my stats)...is the idea of rolling 4 lines equally smart??
    You decide...
    PS. I have "pro-rated Marc Savard's starts from a few years ago, when he played 78 games..to be fair...
    line 1 Savard/Lucic/Horton...93 points to date (see Savard note above)
    line 2 Bergy/Seguin/Recci.....68 points to date
    line 3 Krecji/Wheeler/Rtyder..66 points to date
    line 4 Campbell/Thornton/Marchand...37 points to date

    Not "bad" for a 4th line....but HALF of the worst of the other lines...and soaking up EQUAL ice time.
    Love the 4th line...but......does CJ play them TOO MUCH?...thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    Marchand has proven he doesn't belong on the 4th line as far as I'm concerned.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from macdogcharm. Show macdogcharm's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    i agree with that...just sayin...... these are the 4 lines as set out by the coach....what does everyone think now that i've broken down the numbers?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fordprefect. Show fordprefect's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    I said it before and I'll say it once more, I LOVE our 4th line.  Believe it or not great 4th lines win Cups.  Think about it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from macdogcharm. Show macdogcharm's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    I agree with that too...4th lines "can " win the cup (Chicago)...BUT.... do we want an "efficcient" 4th line...or a 4th line that soaks up ice time equal to the 1st line?...THAT'S the question.....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobforte2002. Show bobforte2002's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    Great fourth lines do help win cups.  But not if your first three lines consistently under produce, your defense can't skate or make plays out of their own end, your power play stinks and your coach gives under performing veterans and fourth line talent players as many minutes as their supposed 1st and 2nd line forwards.

    I'm not sure Chicago suffered from our ailments.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fordprefect. Show fordprefect's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    All I am saying is we have a great 4th line, a spark plug that produces as much as I have seen in awhile.  The top lines do need to produce, but the 4th line can back a line up if it is down in a series.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from huscroft28. Show huscroft28's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    The 4th line (with Marchand) has been consistently strong and a threat all over the ice - like New Jersey's from a few years ago with David Clarkson and Michael Rupp.  The 1st line will sort itself out - Savard is slowly coming back into form (he was a force in the 3rd Period last night) and Lucic threw some thunderous checks last night (he needs to skate harder, though).  It's the 2nd and 3rd lines which worry me, although I thought Wheeler had an excellent game last night and consistently used his body and his reach.  The weak spots are Ryder (so inconsistent) and Recchi (so slow) which is why Marchand has been so valuable to insert with Bergeron and Seguin.  But ... Paille is not Marchand on the 4th line and they've been terrific with Marchand.  At least, last night, the message should come through about how good they can be as a team when they play hard through every shift and every check and win the puck battles consistently - they beat a top team for the first time in a long time.  They need to follow it up tonight with a strong 60 minute effort and leave Montreal in the rear-view mirror.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    The fourth line does not get equal ice time to the first line.  Krecji gets 19 minutes, campbell 12, and very little of that on the power play.  The fourth line's points per even strength minutes played is actually not far off the other lines, which is outstanding.  The other problem with this 'fourth line plays too much' topic is that increasing other players time doesn't necessarily mean more scoring.  Savard averaged more than 2 more minutes per game in his last season in Atlanta and played with high scoring wingers, yet produced the same point total his first year in Boston.  Playing 18 fresh minutes can be better than 21 less intense minutes.  The rolling of four lines is also key to the league-leading defense.  Even if they can't finish, a fourth line playing with energy can nullify a shift by a skilled opponent for 45 seconds.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    when the 4th line is marchand/campbell/thornton. they are the best 4th line in the league. they often spend 30 seconds in the offensive zone wearing down the other team's d and getting good scoring chances. they deserve their 10-12 minutes.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homebrew76. Show Homebrew76's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    The role of the first three lines is different than that of the fourth line, or so they say.  The first three 'scoring' lines are paid to put up points.  The fourth line is used to both shut down the other team's offense, and to inject energy into the team through a fast paced shift featuring checks, and a clamp on the other team's flow.   If they score the odd goal while they are at it, all the better, but the players on the fourth line aren't necessarily finishers, even though they may generate a few scoring chances.

    A solid shift by the fourth line might generate a goal directly, but they may help create an atmosphere that leads to a goal one of the scoring lines, or may take the wind out of the sails of an opposition line that has been dominiating.

    That being said, the offensive stats along is not a good gauge of the fourth line's play
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    I once coached a midget team in Rep hockey. I wanted to win so I played the top players more than I should, and others very little. We were out of a playoff spot. With 3 games to go - we needed 5 points.

    I decided to make a change. My main guys were tired and the others bored because they didn't play enough: Everyone gets equal ice time from now on.

    Lo and behold, we win all three games. Sweep the first round. Win the next round 3-1. And take the final 3-2.

    Why the turn around? My main guys had to get things done with less ice time and made each shift count, and the others knew they would get ice time on a regular basis so they paid attention and played with purpose. Everyone helped each other and all contributed. Even all the parents were finally getting along.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from misterpaulo. Show misterpaulo's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    Agreed.  I got no problem with the minutes the fourth line is getting.  There job is not to put up the points but to create energy and a strong forcheck.  Any offense from these guys is gravy and to date the gravy is tasting pretty good.  By years end I think it will help preserve everyone's energy.

    My only beef and not sure if this is still the norm, but why does CJ always start the 4th line at the beginning of every game?  I like the idea of rewarding good play with the opening face off start and I think ALL players can take from that experience.  A little energy boost as the anthem(s) play and the crowd gets going.  It would be nice to spread this feeling around to the rest of the lines a little more.

    On a side note:  I fell asleep last night mid way through the 3rd when the B's were down 2-0.  Woke up about midnight to drag my ars to bed and noticed the final score!!!  Question is:  Should I even watch tonight?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    A little information is a dangerous thing, and a little misinformation is an even more dangerous thing.

    If you pro-rate Savard's 6 points to date over the full 41 games, he'd have 14.  The Lucic-Savard-Horton line only totals 68 points, not 93.  That's exactly the same as Recchi-Bergeron-Seguin.  And if you pro-rate Krejci to account for his concussion, the Wheeler-Krejci-Ryder line would have 71 points - tops on the team.  You got the Campbell line right.

    So...now look at ES production and ES time on ice if you want to really compare production when rolling 4 lines.  I've done the same pro-rating below.

    Krejci line totals 57 ES points and averages 13:25 ES Ice
    Savard line totals 53 ES points and averages 13:31 ES Ice 
    Bergeron line totals 38 ES points and averages 13:06 ES Ice 
    Cambell line totals 30 ES points and averages 10:58 ES Ice

    Correcting for ice time, the Campbell line would have roughly 36 points if they played the same ice time as the Bergeron line, and 37 points if they played Savard or Krejci minutes.  So...the fourth line, the line that includes the much maligned hands of Shawn Thornton, produces just as well at even strength as the line with the kid everyone thinks deserves to play more and the team's leading scorer.  Also - and this one's just for you SanDog, just because I know it will make you foam at the mouth - if this little analysis tells us anything about rolling the lines, it's that the Krejci line with Wheeler and Ryder should play more than any other line - most points overall and most ES points.

    If you want to argue the notion that the fourth line's production is irrelevant to how it should be used - that Thornton's career year in goals and Marchand's evolution into at least a third line energy guy who could top 15 goals this year is a great bonus from a line whose job is to set the tone, raise the energy level, and wear down the opposition - then hey, please resume criticizing the decision to roll four lines.  Just keep the stats out of it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    You don't win games by scoring goals.  You win games by scoring more goals than your opposition.  If you really want interesting stats, try doing this with goal differential rather than points.  (Points are misleading anyways, since they double/triple count some goals).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: here's some interesting stats!!!!!

    Dr,
    I love to see that, I think at times I am the only one who gets it
     

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