Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    Subban plays a reserve role on the Gold Medal Team, behind Weber, Doughty and Pietrangelo (for Right-side D).  No shame in that, but more than a little curious that the reigning Norris Trophy winner was not able to crack the line-up.

    Those who know, put him on the bench?

    Those who don't voted him the Norris Trophy?

    Weber finished 8th

    Doughty was 9th

    Pietrangelo was 14th

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    Subban didn't play,it was the right call.Good offensive defenceman.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    Karlsson does not deserve the Norris either.  Weber is the best defenseman right now.  The stats orientated Norris is just bogus.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to islamorada's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Karlsson does not deserve the Norris either.  Weber is the best defenseman right now.  The stats orientated Norris is just bogus.  

    [/QUOTE]

    The last couple winners verifies this.Weber,Suter or Chara are more Norris worthy.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    Well they better go strip coffee and guys similar.  Pk had an awesome year last year.  Hes getting better in his own end and i dont see as much of the other junk.   Hes gonna get better at his overall game.  I think they should have a defensive dman award.  

    Canada is stacked with righty dmen.   To be behind shea, drew and AP is not a slap in the face.  He was in the top 8 for Canada.   Thats nothing to feel bad about.  He will get his chance if the NHL go again.  I love watching him play.  Pure game changer.  Still makes mistakes but i will take a guy whos willing to play hard and make mistakes over someone who is scared to make plays. 

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to islamorada's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Karlsson does not deserve the Norris either.  Weber is the best defenseman right now.  The stats orientated Norris is just bogus.  

    [/QUOTE]

    The last couple winners verifies this.Weber,Suter or Chara are more Norris worthy.

    [/QUOTE]

    Weber and Chara are guys i love.   Neither had great years by their standards.  Suter had a fantastic year.  I wouldnt have had an issue with him winning.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

    [/QUOTE]

    He actually played well when they finally put him in the third, could actually skate the puck out of his own end and make a first pass.Don't know why the swedish coach was down on him,didn't watch their games until the final.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well they better go strip coffee and guys similar.  Pk had an awesome year last year.  Hes getting better in his own end and i dont see as much of the other junk.   Hes gonna get better at his overall game.  I think they should have a defensive dman award.  

    Canada is stacked with righty dmen.   To be behind shea, drew and AP is not a slap in the face.  He was in the top 8 for Canada.   Thats nothing to feel bad about.  He will get his chance if the NHL go again.  I love watching him play.  Pure game changer.  Still makes mistakes but i will take a guy whos willing to play hard and make mistakes over someone who is scared to make plays. 

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't disagree shupe, tremendous player.  Just think he needs to be better in his own end, as you say, before he win a Norris. 

    He is 6th on his own team in PK TOI this year and was 6th last year as well, kind of like Karlsson that way.  Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara are all 1st on thier respective teams in PK TOI.  I think that says alot.  Keith is 2nd on the Hawks, Doughty is 4th on the Kings.

    Norris is kind of a sham.  Writers screwed Bourque out of a couple of them when they went Coffey.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well they better go strip coffee and guys similar.  Pk had an awesome year last year.  Hes getting better in his own end and i dont see as much of the other junk.   Hes gonna get better at his overall game.  I think they should have a defensive dman award.  

    Canada is stacked with righty dmen.   To be behind shea, drew and AP is not a slap in the face.  He was in the top 8 for Canada.   Thats nothing to feel bad about.  He will get his chance if the NHL go again.  I love watching him play.  Pure game changer.  Still makes mistakes but i will take a guy whos willing to play hard and make mistakes over someone who is scared to make plays. 

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't disagree shupe, tremendous player.  Just think he needs to be better in his own end, as you say, before he win a Norris. 

    He is 6th on his own team in PK TOI this year and was 6th last year as well, kind of like Karlsson that way.  Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara are all 1st on thier respective teams in PK TOI.  I think that says alot.  Keith is 2nd on the Hawks, Doughty is 4th on the Kings.

    Norris is kind of a sham.  Writers screwed Bourque out of a couple of them when they went Coffey.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not a fan of the PHWA & how they vote either Crowls, but IF Drew Doughty brought the same kind of game to the Kings on a consistent basis they way he does at the Olympics he'd be hands down the the Norris winner every season. This guy just pushes 3 or 4 more buttons at these games. He made me forget about PK Subban & he's one of my favourite players to watch.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    I think this is the nature of the award, and I agree with others that Letang is probably an even more insane pick.  Writers love Subban and Letang, but when you're a GM trying to build a roster to win, those two aren't at the top of the list.

    On the one hand, shupe is right that the award has been this way for a long time, and it doesn't make much sense to cry foul now.

    On the other, that's a pretty poor excuse to keep getting it wrong.  I don't think you have to worry about Paul Coffey or the past really.  There is no responsibility to follow a lousy precedent here.  The award would be better, and more meaningful, if it were more honest about "defensemen" and how they "defend".  I would love to see the award evolve in that way.  

    I still think guys like Subban would be near the top because they are multi-dimensional.  But I think Keith, Chara, Weber, and Suter pull ahead in being the best at their position in terms of overall value.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well they better go strip coffee and guys similar.  Pk had an awesome year last year.  Hes getting better in his own end and i dont see as much of the other junk.   Hes gonna get better at his overall game.  I think they should have a defensive dman award.  

    Canada is stacked with righty dmen.   To be behind shea, drew and AP is not a slap in the face.  He was in the top 8 for Canada.   Thats nothing to feel bad about.  He will get his chance if the NHL go again.  I love watching him play.  Pure game changer.  Still makes mistakes but i will take a guy whos willing to play hard and make mistakes over someone who is scared to make plays. 

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't disagree shupe, tremendous player.  Just think he needs to be better in his own end, as you say, before he win a Norris. 

    He is 6th on his own team in PK TOI this year and was 6th last year as well, kind of like Karlsson that way.  Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara are all 1st on thier respective teams in PK TOI.  I think that says alot.  Keith is 2nd on the Hawks, Doughty is 4th on the Kings.

    Norris is kind of a sham.  Writers screwed Bourque out of a couple of them when they went Coffey.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not a fan of the PHWA & how they vote either Crowls, but IF Drew Doughty brought the same kind of game to the Kings on a consistent basis they way he does at the Olympics he'd be hands down the the Norris winner every season. This guy just pushes 3 or 4 more buttons at these games. He made me forget about PK Subban & he's one of my favourite players to watch.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are spot on in regards to drew.  He isnt the most consistant guy in the nhl during the season.  Its almost like he gets bored.  Then you watch him at this yrs olympics and he dominates.   He was the first on a rush, then was first back to get the dump in.  I was laughing at the tv.  And he looks like hes having a blast.   

    Crowls i agree, in last yrs shortened season he ripped it up and was racking up pts at a wicked pace.   I love old school stay at home dmen.  Thats why i wanted gleason so bad.  Pk is a flashy porsche while gleason is a ford f150.  People will always look and say wow at the sports car but the f150 is so sturdy and works hard.   

    I think pk will get better and better.  I predicted the norris before he won the thing, i didnt think it was gonna be so soon.  

    i think Weber is the best dman in the world.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think this is the nature of the award, and I agree with others that Letang is probably an even more insane pick.  Writers love Subban and Letang, but when you're a GM trying to build a roster to win, those two aren't at the top of the list.

    On the one hand, shupe is right that the award has been this way for a long time, and it doesn't make much sense to cry foul now.

    On the other, that's a pretty poor excuse to keep getting it wrong.  I don't think you have to worry about Paul Coffey or the past really.  There is no responsibility to follow a lousy precedent here.  The award would be better, and more meaningful, if it were more honest about "defensemen" and how they "defend".  I would love to see the award evolve in that way.  

    I still think guys like Subban would be near the top because they are multi-dimensional.  But I think Keith, Chara, Weber, and Suter pull ahead in being the best at their position in terms of overall value.

    [/QUOTE]


    i wish the awards were voted on by the players.  Yes you may get a popularity contest at times.  But i think the players would answer honestly and have the best knowledge.   Not some sports writer who thinks he knows the game.   

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Subban plays a reserve role on the Gold Medal Team, behind Weber, Doughty and Pietrangelo (for Right-side D).  No shame in that, but more than a little curious that the reigning Norris Trophy winner was not able to crack the line-up.

    Those who know, put him on the bench?

    Those who don't voted him the Norris Trophy?

    Weber finished 8th

    Doughty was 9th

    Pietrangelo was 14th

    [/QUOTE]

    Worst Norris trophy winner ever.....big mistake ....shame on the NHL ....Subban is just a hotdog on skates

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well they better go strip coffee and guys similar.  Pk had an awesome year last year.  Hes getting better in his own end and i dont see as much of the other junk.   Hes gonna get better at his overall game.  I think they should have a defensive dman award.  

    Canada is stacked with righty dmen.   To be behind shea, drew and AP is not a slap in the face.  He was in the top 8 for Canada.   Thats nothing to feel bad about.  He will get his chance if the NHL go again.  I love watching him play.  Pure game changer.  Still makes mistakes but i will take a guy whos willing to play hard and make mistakes over someone who is scared to make plays. 

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't disagree shupe, tremendous player.  Just think he needs to be better in his own end, as you say, before he win a Norris. 

    He is 6th on his own team in PK TOI this year and was 6th last year as well, kind of like Karlsson that way.  Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara are all 1st on thier respective teams in PK TOI.  I think that says alot.  Keith is 2nd on the Hawks, Doughty is 4th on the Kings.

    Norris is kind of a sham.  Writers screwed Bourque out of a couple of them when they went Coffey.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not a fan of the PHWA & how they vote either Crowls, but IF Drew Doughty brought the same kind of game to the Kings on a consistent basis they way he does at the Olympics he'd be hands down the the Norris winner every season. This guy just pushes 3 or 4 more buttons at these games. He made me forget about PK Subban & he's one of my favourite players to watch.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are spot on in regards to drew.  He isnt the most consistant guy in the nhl during the season.  Its almost like he gets bored.  Then you watch him at this yrs olympics and he dominates.   He was the first on a rush, then was first back to get the dump in.  I was laughing at the tv.  And he looks like hes having a blast.   

    Crowls i agree, in last yrs shortened season he ripped it up and was racking up pts at a wicked pace.   I love old school stay at home dmen.  Thats why i wanted gleason so bad.  Pk is a flashy porsche while gleason is a ford f150.  People will always look and say wow at the sports car but the f150 is so sturdy and works hard.   

    I think pk will get better and better.  I predicted the norris before he won the thing, i didnt think it was gonna be so soon.  

    i think Weber is the best dman in the world.  

    [/QUOTE]

    It's funny, Chara won while being 12th in d-man scoring, so the writers don't always go for the "porsche".  His year was Mike Green (31 goals) and Andrei Markov (64 points). 

    Agree that Weber is overdue.  Maybe his status with the Gold Medal winners will help propel him with the writers.  Karlsson is near a point/game and Weber is 6th in scoring.  Keith could give him a run.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    Olympics and Norris ??? who cares

    I'd take Subban all day long. And I'd have a hard time taking anyone else for the next 10 yrs.

     

    Subban and Ovechkin aren't that good around here ...hmm

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    I'd take Subban all day long. And I'd have a hard time taking anyone else for the next 10 yrs.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Last five years and the next ten ? I'd take Drew Doughty over PK..............all day long.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    ..........Ovechkin aren't that good around here ...hmm

    [/QUOTE]

    Watch Ovechkin when the other team has the puck................then come back and tell us what you saw.

    A great scorer he is.

    A 200' player he is not.

    That's what I see.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    I had this discussion with my good friend who is as die hard Habs as we are B's.

    I think it started with me saying, "Norris Trophy winner myass!"

    He had a couple of good points:

    1.  Norris is judged on the season, not the career.

    2.  What Yzerman and Babcock choose to do is unrelated to the player.

    3.  They took Kunitz over Player A.  It doesn't mean Kunitz is a better NHL player.

    Like everyone, I dislike the point scoring d-man getting the nod almost always, but whatever.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I had this discussion with my good friend who is as die hard Habs as we are B's.

    I think it started with me saying, "Norris Trophy winner myass!"

    He had a couple of good points:

    1.  Norris is judged on the season, not the career.

    2.  What Yzerman and Babcock choose to do is unrelated to the player.

    3.  They took Kunitz over Player A.  It doesn't mean Kunitz is a better NHL player.

    Like everyone, I dislike the point scoring d-man getting the nod almost always, but whatever.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is complete BS! Not the points you and your Hab sucking buddy made but that you have a "good friend". I'm just not buying it. Nope, so sirree. :P

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well they better go strip coffee and guys similar.  Pk had an awesome year last year.  Hes getting better in his own end and i dont see as much of the other junk.   Hes gonna get better at his overall game.  I think they should have a defensive dman award.  

    Canada is stacked with righty dmen.   To be behind shea, drew and AP is not a slap in the face.  He was in the top 8 for Canada.   Thats nothing to feel bad about.  He will get his chance if the NHL go again.  I love watching him play.  Pure game changer.  Still makes mistakes but i will take a guy whos willing to play hard and make mistakes over someone who is scared to make plays. 

    How about sweden benching OEL who some believe is a top 5.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't disagree shupe, tremendous player.  Just think he needs to be better in his own end, as you say, before he win a Norris. 

    He is 6th on his own team in PK TOI this year and was 6th last year as well, kind of like Karlsson that way.  Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara are all 1st on thier respective teams in PK TOI.  I think that says alot.  Keith is 2nd on the Hawks, Doughty is 4th on the Kings.

    Norris is kind of a sham.  Writers screwed Bourque out of a couple of them when they went Coffey.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not a fan of the PHWA & how they vote either Crowls, but IF Drew Doughty brought the same kind of game to the Kings on a consistent basis they way he does at the Olympics he'd be hands down the the Norris winner every season. This guy just pushes 3 or 4 more buttons at these games. He made me forget about PK Subban & he's one of my favourite players to watch.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are spot on in regards to drew.  He isnt the most consistant guy in the nhl during the season.  Its almost like he gets bored.  Then you watch him at this yrs olympics and he dominates.   He was the first on a rush, then was first back to get the dump in.  I was laughing at the tv.  And he looks like hes having a blast.   

    Crowls i agree, in last yrs shortened season he ripped it up and was racking up pts at a wicked pace.   I love old school stay at home dmen.  Thats why i wanted gleason so bad.  Pk is a flashy porsche while gleason is a ford f150.  People will always look and say wow at the sports car but the f150 is so sturdy and works hard.   

    I think pk will get better and better.  I predicted the norris before he won the thing, i didnt think it was gonna be so soon.  

    i think Weber is the best dman in the world.  

    [/QUOTE]

    It's funny, Chara won while being 12th in d-man scoring, so the writers don't always go for the "porsche".  His year was Mike Green (31 goals) and Andrei Markov (64 points). 

    Agree that Weber is overdue.  Maybe his status with the Gold Medal winners will help propel him with the writers.  Karlsson is near a point/game and Weber is 6th in scoring.  Keith could give him a run.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think keith is a lock this year.  But if i could pick one dman he would be it.   Mancrush on Weber for a long time.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to islamorada's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Karlsson does not deserve the Norris either.  Weber is the best defenseman right now.  The stats orientated Norris is just bogus.  

    [/QUOTE]

    The last couple winners verifies this.Weber,Suter or Chara are more Norris worthy.

    [/QUOTE]

    Weber and Chara are guys i love.   Neither had great years by their standards.  Suter had a fantastic year.  I wouldnt have had an issue with him winning.  

    [/QUOTE]

    it's an absolute disgrace suter didn't win. it was a one man race and they picked someone up. It was suter. 50 layers of crap. 8 other guys. then subban. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    it's an absolute disgrace suter didn't win. it was a one man race and they picked someone up. It was suter. 50 layers of crap. 8 other guys. then subban. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's really not.  Subban had an awesome year.  Oh the drama.  You'd think Mike Green won.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    Look at it from another angle,because PK won the Norris, Bergevin is going to have to pay him at least $7 mil a year in a long term deal.Not saying thats bad but it will eat up alot of their capspace and they could have had him a lot cheaper had thay not played hardball with him last year. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Look at it from another angle,because PK won the Norris, Bergevin is going to have to pay him at least $7 mil a year in a long term deal.Not saying thats bad but it will eat up alot of their capspace and they could have had him a lot cheaper had thay not played hardball with him last year. 

    [/QUOTE]

    No.  Everyone agreed the bridge year was a win for bergevin.  Not me.  They should have extended him.  I think he wanted 5m?    Get ready for 7-8m.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hey Professional Hockey Writers' Association, you sure about that 2012-13 Norris Trophy?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Norris is kind of a sham.  Writers screwed Bourque out of a couple of them when they went Coffey.

    [/QUOTE]

    You know when this bothered me?  When Lidstrom got his sixth.  And then again when he got the James Norris Memorial Retirement Gift.  Nothing particularly against Lidstrom as a player, but if the same writers had applied the same logic to the voting throughout Bourque's career, I think he'd have 7 himself and maybe even tied Orr.  He could have beaten Langway and Coffey in '83-'84, then Coffey in '84-'85.  Probably can't top Coffey's 138 points in '85-'86, which didn't produce the statistical proof to convince voters, but two of Chelios's three could easily have gone to Bourque. If the vote goes his way two of those times (don't get me started on the Hart...), he has 7. 3 of 4 ties Orr.  4 of 4 and we're telling the story as Bourque won more Norris's than anyone, but, of course, Bobby's knees.....

     

    I thought Bourque should have had his first in '83-84.  Coffey had about 30 more points, but the voters weren't willing to give the Norris to him for points alone yet.  Langway was a great defender, but had more than 90 fewer points than Coffey.  Bourque was much, much better than Coffey in his own end, and much, much more effective than Langway in any aspect of the offensive game.

     
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