How many games will Chara get?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get? : Right. See, all the GOOD players had been signed to C-forms by the Original Six teams. I think it also says that, too: From 1936-1943 Montreal protected 14 players through this special draft. Unfortunately none of them ever played a minute in the NHL. Reason being, anybody who could tie their skates and chew gum at the same time were already long signed by other NHL teams including the Canadiens who certainly wern't going to survive solely with this rule . Comprehension isn't your strong point, or did you just stop reading? Or both? It also states the reasoning behind this move (which didn't help the Habs at all): In the early days of the NHL, in fact through the first several decades of the leagues existence, many things were done to try and help franchises that were in trouble. Loaning players was one of the more popular methods. Financial aid was another, facilitating moves to other cities, etc. Bottom line, when a team was in trouble the league would do it's best to try and figure out a way to help . So the idea that ONLY the Habs got helped by the league (again...this is almost 80 years ago!) is also incorrect. Anything else you're misunderstanding that you want corrected? Or is that enough fancy book learnin' for you for one morning?
    Posted by Kennedy97[/QUOTE]
    The quote I pulled from your info supercedes anything else you've pulled up.The fact the 2 players the Habs picked(before anyone else which is what I stated all along)didn't go on to stellar careers doesn't change the fact there was a special "Habs rule" in place.Who's having trouble comprehending that?Certainly not me.........maybe you can reference more about all the "GOOD players" from the 30's and 40's since my referencing a rule from 40 years ago was irrelevant to you.....thanks again for the lessons Kennedy.By the way,sarcasm is more effective if you happen to be right.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    2-3 games at the most

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get? : Right. See, all the GOOD players had been signed to C-forms by the Original Six teams. I think it also says that, too: From 1936-1943 Montreal protected 14 players through this special draft. Unfortunately none of them ever played a minute in the NHL. Reason being, anybody who could tie their skates and chew gum at the same time were already long signed by other NHL teams including the Canadiens who certainly wern't going to survive solely with this rule . Comprehension isn't your strong point, or did you just stop reading? Or both? It also states the reasoning behind this move (which didn't help the Habs at all): In the early days of the NHL, in fact through the first several decades of the leagues existence, many things were done to try and help franchises that were in trouble. Loaning players was one of the more popular methods. Financial aid was another, facilitating moves to other cities, etc. Bottom line, when a team was in trouble the league would do it's best to try and figure out a way to help . So the idea that ONLY the Habs got helped by the league (again...this is almost 80 years ago!) is also incorrect. Anything else you're misunderstanding that you want corrected? Or is that enough fancy book learnin' for you for one morning?
    Posted by Kennedy97[/QUOTE]

    So, it's okay for the Canadiens to have a "special draft" that other teams like Boston don't have, because...it might not have helped anyhow...?

    Is that really the logic you're going with?

    It's just like Arod taking steroids and then justifying it by saying "they didn't actually help me".

    Simple question Kennedy -- was the special draft preferential or not?  I think we both know the answer.

    Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but pretty much everyone outside of Montreal knows the Habs have been the darlings of the NHL for a long time.  You should admit it to.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]Steve the difference is Chara actually did get a penalty and Hundwick didn't.  Not only did Chara get a 5 minute major he also got a game misconduct.  So its hard to compare the 2.  Saying that, i do not believe a suspension should come with this hit but there will likely be one coming.
    Posted by bostondynNASTY[/QUOTE]

    You're right bostondyn.  One was a "called" penalty, the other wasn't.  That's kinda my point.  It started as head shots....dealing with concussions, moved up to blindsiding, and now appears to be anything regarding injury.
    The original intent of cleaning up one area of the game is getting lost here, and obviously, the refs are as confused as knee-jerk fans, and their knee-jerk employers.
    As I said before, I think Chara will get suspended for 2 or 3.  That doesn't change the fact it's idiocracy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    No, incorrect. Let's look at your original post again, and point out (again) in detail why it's dead wrong.

    What did the NHL gain by allowing the Habs to have the rights to the 2 french players of their choosing before the rest of the league started the draft?

    The league did this to keeping a team solvent. As was pointed out, several teams were in dire financial straits during the Depression and WWII. OTHER teams got DIFFERENT help (financial aid, player loans, aid in moving the franchise). This is the "assistance" Montreal got. It wasn't like MTL was the only team where the league stepped in during the Great Depression and WWII (again...this is your example....something that is SEVENTY...70...SEVENTY.... years old!)

    Also, saying it happened before "the rest of the league started to draft" is misleading. At that time, ANY player could be signed to a C-form before the draft. The draft didn't work like it did today...if it did, you or I could conceivably have been drafted, because the actual NHL-calibre players would have been inked well beforehand.
     
    "The truth is that the number of francophone Quebecers on the team has been in decline since the NHL, in 1969, ended a rule that gave the Habs the choice of picking two homegrown players before any other team could draft them.

    You attribute the Habs rise and fall to this draft. The rise has been debunked, so now let's debunk the fall:

    The rule was ended before 1969. It was ended in 1947. It was started in the early 1960s again as the league CHANGED THE RULES because the Habs were cleaning up under its present system, and allowed this (with the C-forms still in place) as it was better than the alternative: the richest team with the biggest coattails getting too many blue chip players.

    However, since only 3 in history ever played for the Habs, and only 2 were bonafide NHLers, I doubt this is why the Habs have been in "decline". Unless, of course, you think Houle and Tardif were why the biggest reason the Habs won all their Cups in the 70s; then I suppose it would. But that'd be ridiculous. And as pointed out, none of the Cups won before this had anything to do with this draft: nobody selected in it ever played on a team before 1970.

    Quebec players, meanwhile, no longer exclusively dream of lacing skates with the Canadiens — they’re as mercenary about selling their talents to the highest bidder as anyone else.

    Indeed. This is the way of the world. But what's your point? The Habs shouldn't have taken advantage of the reality that good players wanted to play for them? This is what happens in free agency (especially pre-salary cap) in this era. Teams shouldn't use the reality that they're a more attractive place to play to their advantage?

    I'm not saying you're wrong Kennedy but it's not outrageous to say the league sometimes seems to give preferential treatment to the Habs.

    Yes it is, considering:
    -you only list one example of such treatment
    -such treatment didn't benefit the Habs very much
    -the league did more to change the rules in the 60s to stop the Habs from claiming to many blue chip prospects than it did aid and abetting then team in signing them.

    Perhaps the Habs dynasty of the 70's would've never been had the draft rules been fair for everyone involved......

    Shown to be incorrect, since the only 2 guys on that dynasty were Houle and Tardif (and not Beliveau, H. Richard, Gainey, Shutt, Cournoyer, Tremblay, Robinson, Lemaire, Dryden et al) were acquired in the last such draft.

    More likey, the Habs Dynasty of the 70s would more likely have been damaged had the Bruins not traded their pick (which became Ken Dryden) to Montreal, and selected the Cornell grad instead.

    Look...the facts blast your original post to smithereens. And that doesn't even address that your response isn't relevant in the first place: how would something that ended 4 decades ago be relevant to the league's decision on Zdeno Chara's hit last night?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostondynNASTY. Show bostondynNASTY's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get? : You're right bostondyn.  One was a "called" penalty, the other wasn't.  That's kinda my point.  It started as head shots....dealing with concussions, moved up to blindsiding, and now appears to be anything regarding injury. The original intent of cleaning up one area of the game is getting lost here, and obviously, the refs are as confused as knee-jerk fans, and their knee-jerk employers. As I said before, I think Chara will get suspended for 2 or 3.  That doesn't change the fact it's idiocracy.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]


    Agreed.  We will know any minute now
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get? : So it's okay for teh Canadiens to have a "special draft" that other teams like Boston don't have, because...it might not have helped anyhow...? Is that really the logic your going with? It's just like Arod taking steroids and then justifying it by saying "they didn't actually help him". Simple question Kennedy -- was the special draft preferential or not?  I think we both know the answer. Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but pretty much everyone outside of Montreal knows the Habs are have been the darlings of the NHL for a long time.  You should admit it to.

    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    It was preferential the way low-interest loans was preferential (like the ones that kept the NY Americans and Ottawa Senators afloat). It was preferential the way zero-interest loans were preferential (which the Bruins, Red Wings, and Rangers received in 1934). It was preferential the way loaning players was preferential (which most teams took advantage of).

    The logic toward the draft isn't "This didn't actually help them". The logic is that all teams received help during that era...they all didn't receive the same assistance. Every one of those moves was an attempt to keep teams solvent (and ultimately, didn't work for 3 of them).  It would be "preferential" if only one team was getting some sort of help; that wasn't the case. MOST were getting some sort of assistance, just in various forms.

    However, revisionists like yourself and Dez point to this regional draft and say "AHA! THAT'S WHY THEY WON ALL THOSE CUPS!!!!" To THAT, the response is "No..the draft did not help them on the ice at all."


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    Dryden was drafted by Bos 14th overall in 1964 and traded to Mon for with a stiff for a couple of stiffs back.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgentilcore. Show mgentilcore's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    0 games  Nice to see somebody other than a bruin stretchered off the ice for a change, glad to see Patch will be alright
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostondynNASTY. Show bostondynNASTY's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    possibly worse news for Chara is this news just came out that the kid has atleast 1 broken vertebrae and a severe concussion.  IM THINKING 5 GAMES NOW UP FROM MY ORIGINAL THOUGHT OF 3
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bgrif008. Show bgrif008's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    3-5 due to the cracked VERT....Otherwise it would be 1-2....So between 1-5....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    He shouldn't get any, but he'll probably get 2-3 games because Bettman is so concerned about image.

    If that does happen, the Bruins should protest if not demand Matt Cooke be suspended for the Savard hit last year.

    I cannot get past the fact Cooke showed total intent with an elbow and a change of direction with his skating path with a hit to the head, while Chara makes a bang/bang pinch play along the boards, finishing a check.

    The two are completely different, yet $100 Bettman will want Campbell to levy a suspension.

    The NHL front office NEVER gets it right, so they'll end up caving to the Montreal market here, and Chara will get some kind of suspension.

    I am still waiting for the suspension of little Francie Bouillon from 3 years ago, when he cold cocked Aaron Ward out the penalty box with an elbow to the head, where Ward was concussed and not moving.

    Anyone remember this?

    We heard absolutely nothing about it, there was no coverage of that blind side cheap shot and no suspension.  Disgusting.

    Have the Bruins ever been the recepient of a fair ruling under Colin Campbell's reign?


    Injured Ward lets loose, discusses ‘cheap hit’
    November 11, 2007
    Source: Stephen Harris | http://www.bostonherald.com | Boston Bruins
     
    Bruins defenseman Aaron Ward yesterday morning declined any real comment about the concussion he suffered when he was hit in the head from behind by Montreal’s Francis Bouillon and left semi-conscious on the ice Thursday night at the Garden.
    However, following last night’s 2-1 win against the Buffalo Sabres, Ward was talking.
    “I felt it was a cheap hit,” Ward said. “I’ve watched it on video and I don’t know how I can draw any other conclusion. But I’ve had past dealings with the National Hockey League. I’ve learned to set my expectations low. And they met them. Nothing is going to be done. It’s done. It was deemed an accident.”
    Bouillon has claimed to Montreal reporters the hit, moments after he stepped out of the penalty box in the Canadiens’ 2-1 win, was inadvertent. He was upset when he heard that B’s coach Claude Julien called it an illegal elbow, the Habs defenseman insisting it was his shoulder that caught Ward and it was accidental.
    “I didn’t see him,” Bouillon said. “I was coming out of the (penalty) box and I was trying to get back into the play. I was looking at our net and all of a sudden I hit him (Ward). I didn’t know how it happened but then I looked at our (video)tape and he was turning around and he didn’t see me.
    “It was scary, especially after the thing with (Patrice) Bergeron (talking about the serious head injury he suffered two weeks ago) earlier in the day. I did a couple of interviews where I said there’s no business for hits like that. I’ll try to call Claude, because I’m not that kind of player.”
    Ward wasn’t buying it.
    “I’m not surprised with the end results,” said Ward, who said he hopes to be cleared to play and return to the lineup this Thursday when the B’s get back in action at the Garden vs. the Toronto Maple Leafs. “We’ve talked about taking head shots out of the game. It didn’t happen. I’ve just got to move on at this point. But in my estimation I don’t understand what’s going on. The puck’s 140 feet away on the other side of the rink. Why he comes out of the penalty box and veers toward me while I’m circling back to get out of the zone, I don’t get.
    “The videotape speaks for itself. The elbow comes up. I’m still at a loss to understand.”
     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    Injury is out and because he has two injures it'll be 4-5 games.  You watch.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    A fractured vertabrae ends Pacioretty's season and raises a lot of question marks about his career.

    That said, it shouldn't affect the length of any potential suspension. Why do I think given the consistently inconsistent sliding scale of NHL "justice" that it will?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    Montreal gained all their drafts by giving up some of their deep talent they had stored away on their many teams across Canada and the US, where they had their fingers in just about every rink and league in North America.

    Montreal did not have to avail of the drafting of top 2 picks that they were awarded, because at the time they owned the rights to anyone they wanted anyways and had in their system more players to send elsewhere for drafts and that is how they got Lafleur, an owned and yet how, he was never drafted, Ernie Hicke that they had in their system, but was not good enough to crack their lineup and swapped picks for Lafleur.  The draft system was a joke about 20 players per year were drafted before expansion was all figured out, so where did all these players come from.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get? : It was preferential the way low-interest loans was preferential (like the ones that kept the NY Americans and Ottawa Senators afloat). It was preferential the way zero-interest loans were preferential (which the Bruins, Red Wings, and Rangers received in 1934). It was preferential the way loaning players was preferential (which most teams took advantage of). The logic toward the draft isn't "This didn't actually help them". The logic is that all teams received help during that era...they all didn't receive the same assistance. Every one of those moves was an attempt to keep teams solvent (and ultimately, didn't work for 3 of them).  It would be "preferential" if only one team was getting some sort of help; that wasn't the case. MOST were getting some sort of assistance, just in various forms. However, revisionists like yourself and Dez point to this regional draft and say "AHA! THAT'S WHY THEY WON ALL THOSE CUPS!!!!" To THAT, the response is "No..the draft did not help them on the ice at all."
    Posted by Kennedy97[/QUOTE]

    But Kennedy, the point I would make (and I think Dez was trying to make too) is that it is not terribly far-fetched to think the Habs might get slightly different treatment on these things than other teams.

    There is one building that I worry about fairness from the refs -- the Bell Centre.

    There is one team that I worry about suspensions against, more than any others -- Montreal (See Lucic on Lapierre).

    I posted Jack Johnson hitting Ryan Smyth the exact same way as Chara did to Pac -- Smyth was injured too, but no suspension.  If Chara does this same hit against the Avs or Coyotes, I think the outcry is much, much less.  Unfortunately, I think the NHL discipline caters to this type of pressure.

    So, I think Chara might pay price for the hit, and also a price for hurting a Canadiens player.

    That feeling about the Canadiens runs rampant around the league, outside of Montreal circles.  Maybe everyone is paranoid, maybe not.  There seems to be a pattern to me.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:[QUOTE]A fractured vertabrae ends Pacioretty's season and raises a lot of question marks about his career. That said, it shouldn't affect the length of any potential suspension. Why do I think given the consistently inconsistent sliding scale of NHL "justice" that it will? Posted by Kennedy97[/QUOTE]

    Chara was already on the ice at Ristuccia practicing before the extent of the injury was announced this is correct the Injury will have no bearing on how long the suspension should/would be for.

    Yes Kennedy the dartboard justice that Campbell has created will continue.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]No, incorrect. Let's look at your original post again, and point out (again) in detail why it's dead wrong. What did the NHL gain by allowing the Habs to have the rights to the 2 french players of their choosing before the rest of the league started the draft? The league did this to keeping a team solvent. As was pointed out, several teams were in dire financial straits during the Depression and WWII. OTHER teams got DIFFERENT help (financial aid, player loans, aid in moving the franchise). This is the "assistance" Montreal got. It wasn't like MTL was the only team where the league stepped in during the Great Depression and WWII (again...this is your example....something that is SEVENTY...70...SEVENTY.... years old!) Also, saying it happened before "the rest of the league started to draft" is misleading. At that time, ANY player could be signed to a C-form before the draft. The draft didn't work like it did today...if it did, you or I could conceivably have been drafted, because the actual NHL-calibre players would have been inked well beforehand.   "The truth is that the number of francophone Quebecers on the team has been in decline since the NHL, in 1969, ended a rule that gave the Habs the choice of picking two homegrown players before any other team could draft them . You attribute the Habs rise and fall to this draft. The rise has been debunked, so now let's debunk the fall: The rule was ended before 1969. It was ended in 1947. It was started in the early 1960s again as the league CHANGED THE RULES because the Habs were cleaning up under its present system, and allowed this (with the C-forms still in place) as it was better than the alternative: the richest team with the biggest coattails getting too many blue chip players. However, since only 3 in history ever played for the Habs, and only 2 were bonafide NHLers, I doubt this is why the Habs have been in "decline". Unless, of course, you think Houle and Tardif were why the biggest reason the Habs won all their Cups in the 70s; then I suppose it would. But that'd be ridiculous. And as pointed out, none of the Cups won before this had anything to do with this draft: nobody selected in it ever played on a team before 1970. Quebec players, meanwhile, no longer exclusively dream of lacing skates with the Canadiens — they’re as mercenary about selling their talents to the highest bidder as anyone else. Indeed. This is the way of the world. But what's your point? The Habs shouldn't have taken advantage of the reality that good players wanted to play for them? This is what happens in free agency (especially pre-salary cap) in this era. Teams shouldn't use the reality that they're a more attractive place to play to their advantage? I'm not saying you're wrong Kennedy but it's not outrageous to say the league sometimes seems to give preferential treatment to the Habs . Yes it is, considering: -you only list one example of such treatment -such treatment didn't benefit the Habs very much -the league did more to change the rules in the 60s to stop the Habs from claiming to many blue chip prospects than it did aid and abetting then team in signing them. Perhaps the Habs dynasty of the 70's would've never been had the draft rules been fair for everyone involved...... Shown to be incorrect, since the only 2 guys on that dynasty were Houle and Tardif (and not Beliveau, H. Richard, Gainey, Shutt, Cournoyer, Tremblay, Robinson, Lemaire, Dryden et al) were acquired in the last such draft. More likey, the Habs Dynasty of the 70s would more likely have been damaged had the Bruins not traded their pick (which became Ken Dryden) to Montreal, and selected the Cornell grad instead. Look... the facts blast your original post to smithereens . And that doesn't even address that your response isn't relevant in the first place: how would something that ended 4 decades ago be relevant to the league's decision on Zdeno Chara's hit last night?
    Posted by Kennedy97[/QUOTE]
    Twist it anyway you want.The fact remains regardless of the impact(or lack thereof)that those players had on your franchise.I guess since you don't agree then it never happenned.I was specifically talking about the late 60's drafts after which you went off on a tangent which ended up proving my point regardless of you not appreciating Tardif and Houle.I quoted from your info that "they could take any 2 players from the province of Quebec in a special draft".What am I confusing here?Don't act like I'm stupid because I don't "get"your logic.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    Why is Kennedy even on this board?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]Why is Kennedy even on this board?
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    Because he' a knowledgeable , smart, objective and respected hockey fan.
    You don't have to agree with a debate but I don't mind him here .  Read his posts and you'll see he's no troll etc..
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nrguy. Show nrguy's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    To be honest, I appreciate Kennedy's knowledge and points.

    But, saying that it didn't help them that much still says that it helped them and was preferential. As was the ability to sign Quebecers to the C-contracts that played around the corner (local loyalty). However, he does have a point that other teams could do it, the Habs just decided to spend more.

    So your both right. The NHL did give the Habs preferential treatment for drafted players but it didn't really mean much and it was more the Habs overspending and local loyalty that made them a dynasty.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    not to mention there were only 5 other teams competing- any small advantage is magnified- its the opposite of parity
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games will Chara get? : Because he' a knowledgeable , smart, objective and respected hockey fan. You don't have to agree with a debate but I don't mind him here .  Read his posts and you'll see he's no troll etc..
    Posted by BsLegion[/QUOTE]
    I too enjoy and appreciate Kennedy's input.This is unlikely to be my last debate with him but that doesn't change that he knows his stuff.Besides,the enemy point of view is important so we can keep things in perspective.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from surfingdjc. Show surfingdjc's posts

    Re: How many games will Chara get?

    It should be zero. It was a border line penalty. The fans called it. Plekanec's knee on Lucic was far worse. He's not the only player to hit the stansion and he won't be the last it happens a lot. But they probally will suspend because:
    1.) He's a Bruin (what does that mean, see Matt Cooke)
    2.) It happend to a Canadien
    3.) He's not Matt Cooke. (it is apparently in his contract that he can he can cheap shot at will)
    If he's suspened we will see just how pathetic the leage really is.

    DC
     

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