I got a question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from gaaucoin. Show gaaucoin's posts

    I got a question

    Somebody fix my thinking/logic, please.


    82 games and $5M/year = $60,975/game. So the guy is making $5M which kinda sorta translates to a 20 minute/game kind of guy. Divide the $60K by the 20 minutes and you get $3K per minute. That's some pretty good $$$. knock it down to $1M/year...$12,200/game and those guys are only playing maybe 8 minutes a game = $1525/minute. Remember that's based on playing 82 games...very few play the whole schedule due to injuries, family stuff, etc. I've been in the workorce pushing 50 years and I'll never see 1 year of that kind of money.


    Now, I understand these guys are the best of the best...they have a short career...call it 10 years and they did not always make $5M...they had to pay their dues...and they have to be in shape...they gotta go thru training camp...they gotta travel for 1/2 the games...they're away from home and family...they make the playoffs and they're away from home and family even more...they get injured...they gotta deal with jerks like me questioning their money...and lotsa other stuff. BUT!!! Who of you out there would not take that deal. Pro athletes make a LOT of money.


    Finally the question...if I'm in the last year of my contract at $5M/year and we win the Cup/Holy Grail am I gonna go into UFA with eyes n a $7M/year contract o a team that just aint there as a contender or shall I stay with the team that won me a championship fo a little less money? My point is, how much is enough? Reckon you could retire on $5M in the bank and still have a comfortable lifestyle?


    Garfield

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to gaaucoin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Finally the question...if I'm in the last year of my contract at $5M/year and we win the Cup/Holy Grail am I gonna go into UFA with eyes n a $7M/year contract o a team that just aint there as a contender or shall I stay with the team that won me a championship fo a little less money? My point is, how much is enough? Reckon you could retire on $5M in the bank and still have a comfortable lifestyle?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, it's a lot of money, but turning away from money is dumb in my view.  If a guy wants to take a one year shot at something awesome (Kariya to Colorado, Iginla to Boston), great.  But overall, you make as much money as you can while you can.

    The money isn't just for the player.  Well, in some cases it is, but mostly it's for his family and future generations.  Hard work, good accounting and good investments could mean that his kids and grandkids and future generations never have to work.  

    I love when I hear people suggest that a guy take less money for whatever.  (Not saying you're saying that here.)  Never tell a man what to do with his money.  Make it, spend it, save it, invest it, blow it, whatever.  It's each man's choice.  

    If Company A is offering me a million dollars more than Company B for this year, see ya.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, it's a lot of money, but turning away from money is dumb in my view.  If a guy wants to take a one year shot at something awesome (Kariya to Colorado, Iginla to Boston), great.  But overall, you make as much money as you can while you can.

    The money isn't just for the player.  Well, in some cases it is, but mostly it's for his family and future generations.  Hard work, good accounting and good investments could mean that his kids and grandkids and future generations never have to work.  

    I love when I hear people suggest that a guy take less money for whatever.  (Not saying you're saying that here.)  Never tell a man what to do with his money.  Make it, spend it, save it, invest it, blow it, whatever.  It's each man's choice.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


     Exactly . NHL careers can be nasty, brutish, and short. Make as much secured money as you can because it can end at any moment. Nothing wrong with that. These people are the best of the best and this is their opportunity. Most do not have anything more than a high school education and come from middle class families (at best). Best to cash in when you can.

    All the "hometown discount" threads are just laughable.....

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All the "hometown discount" threads are just laughable.....

    [/QUOTE]

    If a guy has played in a city for a long time, his family is there and happy and he's already banked tens of millions, I can understand taking a mil less a year to keep real life status quo.

    Taking two years at $5M per to stay close or seven years at $6M per?  Pack yo bags, baby.  We're moving.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    Or 8 years at $9mill....no brainer.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, it's a lot of money, but turning away from money is dumb in my view.  If a guy wants to take a one year shot at something awesome (Kariya to Colorado, Iginla to Boston), great.  But overall, you make as much money as you can while you can.

    The money isn't just for the player.  Well, in some cases it is, but mostly it's for his family and future generations.  Hard work, good accounting and good investments could mean that his kids and grandkids and future generations never have to work.  

    I love when I hear people suggest that a guy take less money for whatever.  (Not saying you're saying that here.)  Never tell a man what to do with his money.  Make it, spend it, save it, invest it, blow it, whatever.  It's each man's choice.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


     Exactly . NHL careers can be nasty, brutish, and short. Make as much secured money as you can because it can end at any moment. Nothing wrong with that. These people are the best of the best and this is their opportunity. Most do not have anything more than a high school education and come from middle class families (at best). Best to cash in when you can.

    All the "hometown discount" threads are just laughable.....

    [/QUOTE]

    The "discount" isn't laughable, it's a reality.  What's ridiculous, is how some people interpret it.  Lots of players will take a bit less to stay put.  The key is "a bit less....not millions.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    Steve, plenty of fans assume players will accept a lot less to play for a certain team. (TO and Habs fans are just unreadable in the TSN comments section when it comes to this, as are some poster here). Just doesn't happen. A few hundred K and some term with clauses....maybe. An actually statistically significant amount? Nope. Examples of this fallacy are all over these boards almost every time a player is due a new contract. Just watch when the season heats up and we start discussing Krecji and Boychuk again.....which will be soon.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: I got a question

    When you look at pro athletes as a whole, NHLers are not paid that well, so I have no problem with their money.  When I look at the hedge fund billionaires, the actors and entertainers....I have even less problem with the money.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    I agree entirely....

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: I got a question

    To paraphrase Patrick Ewing, pro athletes make a lot of money, but they also spend a lot of money.  Not sure whose data it is originally, but this:

    http://www.wyattresearch.com/article/five-reasons-professional-athletes-go-broke/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wyattresearch.com/article/five-reasons-professional-athletes-go-broke/

    says 60% of NBA players and 78% of NFL players file for bankruptcy within 5 years of their career ending.  No numbers for NHL players that I can see.  It's harder to blow all that cash when you live in a cottage in Muskoka?

    You also can't overestimate the lack of education, too (and that makes the NBA/NFL numbers - college-fed pro leagues - more shameful).  I remember reading something years ago that said the number 1 business venture former pro players go into after they leave the game is "restauranteur".  Restaurants fail the way Sam Bennett fails at pullups.  A lot of these guys rely on business advisers who recommend more risk than in necessary or prudent because they player wants to live like he's still pulling down game cheques.

    If you take your $5M a year guy on a 5 year deal (say...), give him about half of that in net after taxes - so $2.5/yr.  Agent gets 5% of the full $5M, so you write a cheque for $250K to him.  Business manager, accountant and other professional services, call that another $150K.  Still net of $2.1M.  Chances are the guy buys a house in a good neighbourhood where he can get some privacy.  Depending on which NHL city you live in, that's no small chunk of change, and then you're carrying the mortgage and paying property taxes like every other shmoe - just bigger bills.  Let's say that, at the end of the day, a guy who makes $5M actually has about $1.5M to invest.  That's $7.5M over the life of that contract.

    If all you did was put that in a savings account that gave you 2% annually?  You could have an annual income of $150K before taxes.  If the house is already paid off, and you have some kind of gig that gives you a little extra on the side, you'd be pretty much set  to live off the interest.  Dip into the principle when it's time to send Jr. to University, x however many kids.  Don't get divorced.  Try not to get fat (looking at you Bourque!).  And that's if you only really had the one fat deal.  The world of Marty Lapointe.

    The problem is, it's hard for a kid from some dustbowl in Saskatchewan living in Boston, LA, NYC, or any big American city to be disciplined with that discretionary cash.  Odds are, they spend at least half of it being young rich S.o.b.s., especially if they're single.  I'd be willing to play the price is right on how much of Seguin's first big money contract year cash he actually put away for later.  You go first; my answer will be $1. 

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    Don't forget escrow.

    Hey....wait...."dustbowl in Saskatchewan?"....I resent that!  :)

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: I got a question

    One point regarding a "comfortable" life style.  Money always finds a way of getting invested, spent or otherwise tied up no matter how much you make, at least in my experience.  And if you are at the 35k a year level, you can't imagine what someone making 75k a year has to complain about, and if you are at 1 mil a year, you can't imagine what someone at 2 mil a year could possibly every complain about - and so it goes.

    By the way, my company is large, 10k people in it.  The CEO left his job at Oracle where he was getting 40 million a year to come to my company.  And you haven't heard of my company, and he will be making that kind of money for a lot longer than NHL guys will.

    It boggles the mind, but NHL players don't make the kind of money that put them in the upper echelons of society today.  Yes, they are well off and do better than 95% of the people out there, but there are a long way away from that upper 2-3%.

     

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, it's a lot of money, but turning away from money is dumb in my view.  If a guy wants to take a one year shot at something awesome (Kariya to Colorado, Iginla to Boston), great.  But overall, you make as much money as you can while you can.

    The money isn't just for the player.  Well, in some cases it is, but mostly it's for his family and future generations.  Hard work, good accounting and good investments could mean that his kids and grandkids and future generations never have to work.  

    I love when I hear people suggest that a guy take less money for whatever.  (Not saying you're saying that here.)  Never tell a man what to do with his money.  Make it, spend it, save it, invest it, blow it, whatever.  It's each man's choice.  

    If Company A is offering me a million dollars more than Company B for this year, see ya.  

    [/QUOTE]

    What I hate to hear is an athelete coming off a $5m/yr contract, holding out for an $8m/yr contract(after being offered $6m/yr) and when it finally gets done says, "The bottom line is I have look out for my family"...

    How much IS enough?

    Is it worth moving your family to a new town/school/country club because you didn't agree with the $6m offer?

    It is not for the family, it is for the player and his bling.

    That said, I don't expect it to change and wonder (out loud) how I would handle it.

    I just wouldn't say it's for the family.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Davinator's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What I hate to hear is an athelete coming off a $5m/yr contract, holding out for an $8m/yr contract(after being offered $6m/yr) and when it finally gets done says, "The bottom line is I have look out for my family"...

    How much IS enough?

    Is it worth moving your family to a new town/school/country club because you didn't agree with the $6m offer?

    It is not for the family, it is for the player and his bling.

    That said, I don't expect it to change and wonder (out loud) how I would handle it.

    I just wouldn't say it's for the family.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure it is about the family.  Once you are well off you start thinking about making sure the kids can go to college, which in some cases if you have a dumb kid it means donating lots of money to that school.  And houses for the kids, too.  Add in their lunch money and there you go, 5 mil spent.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: I got a question

    According to USA today, average career and salary in the NHL is 5 years for 13.2 million.


    Most average people work 18-65, let's call it 50 years because I worked part time before 18 and many don't get to retire until 67 (or never).


    50 (average people working career years) divided by the 13.2 mil 5 year NHL career comes to $264,000 a year, that's really good money, but not really great money.


    Yah, they can work after your NHL career is done, but what skills do they have?


     


     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: I got a question

    Interesting reading

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_player_salaries_in_the_NHL

     

     
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: I got a question

    The other thing I paused on in that article I posted was the idea that the median is a better measure of what these guys earn than the mean.  The average NHL career is 5-6 years long, and this:

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/average-career-earnings-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-mls" rel="nofollow">http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/average-career-earnings-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-mls

    uses the average salary x average career to come up with $13.2M as average career earnings. It's a flawed number in a lot of ways, but if you apply the same rules to that number, you get net earnings of about $6.6M, less agents and other services of almost a million over the career.  $5.6M would sure look good in my bank account right now, but it's not set-for-life money, especially if you're saving a chunk of it for what the rest of us consider retirement age.  And, of course, you have to take living expenses out of it for the course of your playing days.  Average NHL player probably doesn't have a sweet deal on suits with Zegna or Canali.  It would be hard to live on the cheap as an NHL player sitting next to Jagr and his giant bankroll.  Campbell hasn't hit $9M in career earnings (a.k.a. what Subban gets this year alone), but he's apparently a clotheshorse.

    So, I would guess a good estimate is that this average career guy is ultimately filing his papers with about $2M to show for his life in hockey, and that might be generous.  Nice little nest egg if you have an Act 2; recipe for disaster if the best plan you have is to open a restaurant, hockey school, or buy into a car dealership.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: I got a question

    Then you throw in the smart ones that establish residency in Florida and Texas, that gives athletes more.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: I got a question

    One thing people have to take into consideration when wondering if an All-star or big name player will take the so called "home town discount" to stay with his team,is the pressure exerted by the NHLPA in the process. Like it or not the NHLPA wants salaries for top players to go up, thus setting benchmarks for arbitration hearings down the road. Raymond Bourque,while he was the premiere d-man in the league, took "home town discounts" just about every contract because he did not want to move his family around. Harry Sinden likely knew this and would lowball him every chance come contract time, Ray would take the deal and not threaten to leave to a higher bidder,thus the price he accepted would be the benchmark and in the process he upset the NHLPA who quietly protested, but not too loudly as they didn't want to come across as being against family men. I don't blame players for taking the money when they can,their careers for the most part are short and the sacrifices made by their families are huge,but as a fan i wish the players that i want to stay with the B's would do just that and say "enough is enough",i want my family to stay in one place.That isn't the reality though. 

     

     

     

     

    You will never find a more wretched hive of SCUM and VILLAINY.

    -Obi-Wan Kenobi

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: I got a question

    I'm not one to sympathize with how tough it is to be a professional athlete, but to base the salary directly on minutes of ice time ($3k per minute or whatever) really makes no sense.

    I mean, it's a full time commitment for at least 3/4ths of the year.  How about analyzing the salary for each minute of time spent away from family.  I have a wife and two little kids, and I can tell you that I'd be divorced if I spent that much time away from home, no matter how much dough I was pulling in.  Try as they might, those guys are largely absent as fathers and husbands.  What's the price of that?  That travel schedule, year after year, is a crazy sacrifice for everyone involved.  You should be getting paid for every minute that your job takes you away from your family.

    And, as touched on above, you leave yourself totally unprepared for practically any other career at 35 years old.  Your resume isn't really applicable for anything else and you probably skipped what is really a basic level of education these days to make the league.  

    You've got the next 40 years to plan for, a family to support, and probably have 1/3 of the credits towards a degree in Communications from Moosenuts Technical College in Saskatoon.  So what do you do?  You try to invest the $1 million you have in your account that's unencumbered.  But you don't know anything about investing.  So yeah...car dealerships, sports bars, etc.  Risky as hell.

    I don't know if an extra million is worth uprooting your family and moving them across the country or not.  That's a personal decision.  But I would think that it is irresponsible to not absolutely maximize your income during the one decade you can get paid for your fleeting talents.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You've got the next 40 years to plan for, a family to support, and probably have 1/3 of the credits towards a degree in Communications from Moosenuts Technical College in Saskatoon. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Be careful,thats where JMW teaches. He's still correcting term papers from 3 yrs ago! ;)


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    .  

    You've got the next 40 years to plan for, a family to support, and probably have 1/3 of the credits towards a degree in Communications from Moosenuts Technical College in Saskatoon.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Another jab at us fine residents of Saskatchewan, eh? lol

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You've got the next 40 years to plan for, a family to support, and probably have 1/3 of the credits towards a degree in Communications from Moosenuts Technical College in Saskatoon. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Be careful,thats where JMW teaches. He's still correcting term papers from 3 yrs ago! ;)


    [/QUOTE]


    hahaha....if only I could get tenure at such a fine institution. I hear moosenuts are quite the delicacy up there! lol

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You've got the next 40 years to plan for, a family to support, and probably have 1/3 of the credits towards a degree in Communications from Moosenuts Technical College in Saskatoon. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Go Sizzlin' Prairie Oysters!
    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: I got a question

    In response to Davinator's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What I hate to hear is an athelete coming off a $5m/yr contract, holding out for an $8m/yr contract(after being offered $6m/yr) and when it finally gets done says, "The bottom line is I have look out for my family"...

    How much IS enough?

    Is it worth moving your family to a new town/school/country club because you didn't agree with the $6m offer?

    It is not for the family, it is for the player and his bling.

    That said, I don't expect it to change and wonder (out loud) how I would handle it.

    I just wouldn't say it's for the family.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why does there have to be a limit, an "enough"?  I have spent my professional life trying to make as much money as I can.  Why can't these guys do the same?

    Many folks make less than me.  Many make more.  I travel a lot, so people who make less wonder what it's like to have the money to go places I do.  Meanwhile, I wonder what it's like to sit in first class every time.  And those suckers wonder what it's like to have a private jet.

    Every man is his own man when it comes to money.  It's never any else's business.  Make it, spend it, save it, blow it, set it on fire.  Do whatever you want with your money.  My life remains the same.  

    Ask any guy making $150K if he'd like to do the same job and make $300K instead.  Tell me how many say, "No, man.  I'm good.  I'll stay at $150K."

     

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