Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to JWensink's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't like the terms on the table ? Turn down the millions that are still being offered, and go play somewhere else. Just like they are doing right now.

     

    The players can be right - or they can be rich.

     

    Who's the idiot?

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't be alarmed. You're just walking by a mirror.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Please provide an example of player demands. These guys aren't on strike. They're locked out. Their demand of wanting contracts to be honoured doesn't seem like alot to ask for.

    [/QUOTE]

    In order to continue, the owners have asked the players to scale back their contracts a bit.  No one is going to go hungry due to the proposed scale back.  The millionaire players have refused to do so.

    [/QUOTE]   Why should the players have to scale back on contracts that were supposedly signed in good faith by the billionare owners ?


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to jpBsSoxFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Please provide an example of player demands. These guys aren't on strike. They're locked out. Their demand of wanting contracts to be honoured doesn't seem like alot to ask for.

    [/QUOTE]

    In order to continue, the owners have asked the players to scale back their contracts a bit.  No one is going to go hungry due to the proposed scale back.  The millionaire players have refused to do so.

    [/QUOTE]   Why should the players have to scale back on contracts that were supposedly signed in good faith by the billionare owners ?


    [/QUOTE]


    You're absolutely right JP. There's not a person here that would show up for work tomorrow happy if they were told they'd be earning 10-20% less than they currently are, just because their bosses would like to make more money. Frankly, I was unaware that people in a capitalist society had a right to turn a profit. I was actually naive enough to think that some business owners turn a profit and some don't. Silly me I guess.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jpBsSoxFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Please provide an example of player demands. These guys aren't on strike. They're locked out. Their demand of wanting contracts to be honoured doesn't seem like alot to ask for.

    [/QUOTE]

    In order to continue, the owners have asked the players to scale back their contracts a bit.  No one is going to go hungry due to the proposed scale back.  The millionaire players have refused to do so.

    [/QUOTE]   Why should the players have to scale back on contracts that were supposedly signed in good faith by the billionare owners ?


    [/QUOTE]


    You're absolutely right JP. There's not a person here that would show up for work tomorrow happy if they were told they'd be earning 10-20% less than they currently are, just because their bosses would like to make more money. Frankly, I was unaware that people in a capitalist society had a right to turn a profit. I was actually naive enough to think that some business owners turn a profit and some don't. Silly me I guess.

    [/QUOTE]

    And some players were actually dumb enough to think that a signed deal meant something too eh Dez? I don't blame the players for not wanting to have their signed contracts nulified. I think that it's the RFA age, entry level deals & drop to the 50 % right off the bat instead of gradually that they should be willing to move on. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    You're absolutely right JP. There's not a person here that would show up for work tomorrow happy if they were told they'd be earning 10-20% less than they currently are, just because their bosses would like to make more money. Frankly, I was unaware that people in a capitalist society had a right to turn a profit. I was actually naive enough to think that some business owners turn a profit and some don't. Silly me I guess.

    [/QUOTE]

    The company I work for cut pay across the board for a lot of people.  Some quit and went elsewhere.  The rest of us stayed.  The players have the same choice.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What's left for the players after this.  No free agency until 28. Reduced contracts in years and money.  A cap that limits teams.  Yes these players are rich. But soon there will be no need for agents or gms bc the players haven no say.  The league is making money off their talents.  I get your entire I own it stance that the owners are taking.  But this is just stupid.  And you have yet to answer my question about all the last minute contracts and huge deals signed this summer up to lock out time.  The players should be able to sue.  Were the owners informed of all this on the first day of the lock out?  These guys new exactly what they were doing.  Why couldn't they play under the current cba.  The players would have.  And yet you still side with the owners.  

    [/QUOTE]


    What's left for the players:  Multi-million dollar contracts.

    Players will have no say:  They will always have the right to go do something else.

    The owners and the players agreed on those contracts with the lockout looming.  Both were well aware that the terms would most likely be changed. 

    They couldn't play under the current CBA for two reasons:

    1.  The owners would lose all leverage to make the necessary changes.  The current CBA is largely in favor of the players, so they'd be very, very slow to get to the table to make anything happen.  It's like when an older CBA was largely in favor of the owners and the players went on strike before the playoffs started. 

    2.  The current CBA isn't working properly and needs to be changed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jpBsSoxFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Please provide an example of player demands. These guys aren't on strike. They're locked out. Their demand of wanting contracts to be honoured doesn't seem like alot to ask for.

    [/QUOTE]

    In order to continue, the owners have asked the players to scale back their contracts a bit.  No one is going to go hungry due to the proposed scale back.  The millionaire players have refused to do so.

    [/QUOTE]   Why should the players have to scale back on contracts that were supposedly signed in good faith by the billionare owners ?


    [/QUOTE]


    You're absolutely right JP. There's not a person here that would show up for work tomorrow happy if they were told they'd be earning 10-20% less than they currently are, just because their bosses would like to make more money. Frankly, I was unaware that people in a capitalist society had a right to turn a profit. I was actually naive enough to think that some business owners turn a profit and some don't. Silly me I guess.

    [/QUOTE]

    No there's not.

    Unfortunately in today's society, businesses are doing more of this.

    Currently, the other option for them is to make 100% less and NOT show up for work. They have decided to do this rather then take a cut.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    The failure in this thought process is that the lockout is solely based on the owners wanting to make more money. 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skater68. Show skater68's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Please provide an example of player demands. These guys aren't on strike. They're locked out. Their demand of wanting contracts to be honoured doesn't seem like alot to ask for.

    [/QUOTE]

    In order to continue, the owners have asked the players to scale back their contracts a bit.  No one is going to go hungry due to the proposed scale back.  The millionaire players have refused to do so.

    [/QUOTE]


    "scale back their contracts a bit"

    Bull . Their asking for everything and giving nothing in these so called negotiations

    The greed of affluent business types in the US is disgusting and it's time for all workers to stand up. It will happen

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    i wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, the nhl is being played in china. it sure seems to fit the formula... owners of business wants to maximize profits by cutting workers salaries/benefits. workers won't work for less. business owners say they can't survive in the current situation-they close shop and find a more lucrative business model.  let's all be thankful this is exclusive to the nhl and not a widespread practice by the rich and powerful people of the world. trying to score beijing bruins tickets will be expensive when there are a billion people to outbid on stubhub.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to skater68's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "scale back their contracts a bit"

    Bull . Their asking for everything and giving nothing in these so called negotiations

    The greed of affluent business types in the US is disgusting and it's time for all workers to stand up. It will happen

    [/QUOTE]

    How did that work out for the Baker's Union in the Hostess strike?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot



    How did that work out for the Baker's Union in the Hostess strike?

    [/QUOTE]


    Doesn't look like it worked very well....and your point....... are you suggesting people should just accept whatever is being offerred by companies?  You don't the big dogs should ever be challenged?

    Hostess is apparently giving out some pretty big bonuses to their hierarchy too.  Not sure that makes much sense either.

    Taking away from the bottom end, is becoming too common.  Especially, when the top end is "getting" more than they ever have.  It'll be interesting to see what happens if someone else steps up, and runs a decent business while still paying current wages.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    How did that work out for the Baker's Union in the Hostess strike?

    [/QUOTE]


    Doesn't look like it worked very well....and your point....... are you suggesting people should just accept whatever is being offerred by companies?  You don't the big dogs should ever be challenged?

    Hostess is apparently giving out some pretty big bonuses to their hierarchy too.  Not sure that makes much sense either.

    Taking away from the bottom end, is becoming too common.  Especially, when the top end is "getting" more than they ever have.  It'll be interesting to see what happens if someone else steps up, and runs a decent business while still paying current wages.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The Teamsters agreed to the terms laid out by Hostess.  The Baker's Union balked.  Now, all of those people are out of jobs.  In my view, if the Teamsters are going to agree, it makes sense for the smaller Baker's Union to follow suit.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    How did that work out for the Baker's Union in the Hostess strike?

    [/QUOTE]


    Doesn't look like it worked very well....and your point....... are you suggesting people should just accept whatever is being offerred by companies?  You don't the big dogs should ever be challenged?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point, stevegm, is that not every business owner is just simply full of greed and is looking to stick it to the workers. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    50below nailed it in not one but two posts. the Ian White's of the hockey world, whom I like as a player, needs to keep quiet during these negotations.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What's left for the players after this.  No free agency until 28. Reduced contracts in years and money.  A cap that limits teams.  Yes these players are rich. But soon there will be no need for agents or gms bc the players haven no say.  The league is making money off their talents.  I get your entire I own it stance that the owners are taking.  But this is just stupid.  And you have yet to answer my question about all the last minute contracts and huge deals signed this summer up to lock out time.  The players should be able to sue.  Were the owners informed of all this on the first day of the lock out?  These guys new exactly what they were doing.  Why couldn't they play under the current cba.  The players would have.  And yet you still side with the owners.  

    [/QUOTE]


    What's left for the players:  Multi-million dollar contracts.

    Players will have no say:  They will always have the right to go do something else.

    The owners and the players agreed on those contracts with the lockout looming.  Both were well aware that the terms would most likely be changed. 

    They couldn't play under the current CBA for two reasons:

    1.  The owners would lose all leverage to make the necessary changes.  The current CBA is largely in favor of the players, so they'd be very, very slow to get to the table to make anything happen.  It's like when an older CBA was largely in favor of the owners and the players went on strike before the playoffs started. 

    2.  The current CBA isn't working properly and needs to be changed.

    [/QUOTE]

    1.  Leverage for what?  Reducing salary so they can benefit from this with$. That's what this is about. They can then control contracts$ control term$ and control age at which they can go ufa$. It's cost control.  Stop paying for the 5 or 6 cities that are a mess.  That's costing $.  Sink or swim.   Largely in favour of the players?  Laughable. If the league is making money riding the coat tails of the 10 strong.  And they continue to increase ticket prices who gets this money?  The nhlpa lost a lot with the cap.  I was in favour of a cap system.  The players weren't. The owners got everything in the last cba lock out and the rich smart teams still found a way to get around their own cba.  So now they have their cap. Which was done to protect small markets.  Now they want to control the players.  28 before ufa.  laughable. I like 5 year max deals.  grandfather current contracts.  Ensure large AHL contracts stay as part of NHL clubs cap. And permit one contract dump per year.  

    2. See 1.  its not working bc? Because of the owners.  Again. They won the last cba in a landslide. 

    So if players are getting pay cuts, the league is making money and ticket prices are increased who gets this extra money.  Shouldn't ticket prices come down?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    Many people agree with 5 year max contracts.  I don't see the problem with longer ones...even lifetime contracts.

    I see no problem whatsoever with durations.  The problem is with how they're doled out annually.  Fix that loop-hole...that's the problem.  I'd love to think that Chara will finish out his career here.  Same with Seguin.  If that can be done reasonably....what's the problem?

    The problem is, the league wants "cost certainty", "profit certainty", 'player certainty", basically, they want protected from about every competitive pressure imaginable, from a business perspective.  Finally, they still insist on the sacred values of "free enterprise" though, when setting prices is in their domain.

     

     

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot


     

     

     


    The Teamsters agreed to the terms laid out by Hostess.  The Baker's Union balked.  Now, all of those people are out of jobs.  In my view, if the Teamsters are going to agree, it makes sense for the smaller Baker's Union to follow suit.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd agree if it was that simple NAS.  There's is a very good chance the same thing would have happenned if the deal was ratified.  Pretty convenient to blame the workers.  The reality is that there were 4 big problems.  The contract schamozzle, was just a convenient way to circumvent the whole story.  Unfortunately, most people don't look too far beneath the surface.  Following are the issues facing the aforementioned brands..

    1.  Excessive debt

    2. Poor management

    3. Dwindling public demand

    4.  Labour costs

    I've stated this before, I've never been a union guy, but crap like the story you introduced is going on everywhere.  Blame everything on the working stiffs.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     

     

     


    The Teamsters agreed to the terms laid out by Hostess.  The Baker's Union balked.  Now, all of those people are out of jobs.  In my view, if the Teamsters are going to agree, it makes sense for the smaller Baker's Union to follow suit.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd agree if it was that simple NAS.  There's is a very good chance the same thing would have happenned if the deal was ratified.  Pretty convenient to blame the workers.  The reality is that there were 4 big problems.  The contract schamozzle, was just a convenient way to circumvent the whole story.  Unfortunately, most people don't look too far beneath the surface.  Following are the issues facing the aforementioned brands..

    1.  Excessive debt

    2. Poor management

    3. Dwindling public demand

    4.  Labour costs

    I've stated this before, I've never been a union guy, but crap like the story you introduced is going on everywhere.  Blame everything on the working stiffs.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Blame everything on Wonderbread!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    You're absolutely right JP. There's not a person here that would show up for work tomorrow happy if they were told they'd be earning 10-20% less than they currently are, just because their bosses would like to make more money. Frankly, I was unaware that people in a capitalist society had a right to turn a profit. I was actually naive enough to think that some business owners turn a profit and some don't. Silly me I guess.

    [/QUOTE]

    The company I work for cut pay across the board for a lot of people.  Some quit and went elsewhere.  The rest of us stayed.  The players have the same choice.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the players have the same choice and that's my point. You and some others are the ones suggesting the players should just cave. Most players are earning cash (less) elsewhere as that is their choice. I guess my question is why you're constantly trying to trash the NHLPA simply for doing exactly what you've just suggested? As you said, they can cave or work elsewhere. They've decided not to cave. Just because you did doesn't mean everyone should.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    Ian White makes more than he could have ever of dreamed of, and he has Gary Bettman to thank for that.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Of course the players have the same choice and that's my point. You and some others are the ones suggesting the players should just cave. Most players are earning cash (less) elsewhere as that is their choice. I guess my question is why you're constantly trying to trash the NHLPA simply for doing exactly what you've just suggested? As you said, they can cave or work elsewhere. They've decided not to cave. Just because you did doesn't mean everyone should.

    [/QUOTE]


    I didn't cave, Dez.  I'm not in an union.  My choice was work for less (I was well overpaid anyway) or go look for something new.

    I took the cut and showed up for work the next day.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    2. See 1.  its not working bc? Because of the owners.  Again. They won the last cba in a landslide. 

    [/QUOTE]

    In the '03-04 season, the 15th highest payroll was the Sens at $39.5M.

    In the '10-11 season, there were five teams below $45M. 

    Please compare these two and tell me how badly the players got spanked:
    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/hockey/nhl/salaries/team/2003
    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/hockey/nhl/salaries/team/2010

    You'll also see that in '03-04, 21 teams had average salaries below $2M.  In '10-11, eight did.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    Math and logic are useless when confronting blind and senseless ideology

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Ian White calls Bettman an Idiot

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Of course the players have the same choice and that's my point. You and some others are the ones suggesting the players should just cave. Most players are earning cash (less) elsewhere as that is their choice. I guess my question is why you're constantly trying to trash the NHLPA simply for doing exactly what you've just suggested? As you said, they can cave or work elsewhere. They've decided not to cave. Just because you did doesn't mean everyone should.

    [/QUOTE]


    I didn't cave, Dez.  I'm not in an union.  My choice was work for less (I was well overpaid anyway) or go look for something new.

    I took the cut and showed up for work the next day.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't have to be in a union to cave to someone's demands Nas and let me stress that I'm not judging you for the choice you made. You did what you felt was best for you at that point in your life. I'm just saying that just because that's what worked for you doesn't mean it's the right choice for everyone else (NHLPA specifically). I'm just not willing to chastise the players for standing up for what they think is right. If you haven't seen the film "Net Worth", then you need to because I don't even want to think about how scary the NHL would be had the players not formed a union.

     

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