With 30 secs to go in the OTT/NYR game 6, chris Neil clearly kicks the puck in the net. Not only that, he even shoved Lundqvist out of the way with his stick beforehand. Did anyone see it?
While I might be able to buy that Neil was pushed into Lundqvist, therefore pushing Neils stick into him and moving him, might be seen by the warroom as legal play.... how on earth was it not seen as a distinct kicking motion? Even though his skate seems to barely graze the puck, it's clear that it goes from barely moving to sliding into the net. If that isn't a kick what is?
You can see it here, it's at the very end of the video:
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,3,116&navid=sb:highlights
If that isn't a kick, what is?
-
If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/23/2012 11:42 PM EDT
- Eric66
- Posts: 267
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 5/15/2013
-
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/23/2012 11:48 PM EDT
- 49-North
- Posts: 1359
- First: 5/28/2011
- Last: 5/23/2013
I was watching it too, and I didn't see conclusively that Neil's skate touched the puck. It was called a goal on the ice, so it has to be clear that it's NOT a goal, and I don't think there's enough evidence to say that. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 12:17 AM EDT
- Bisson1
- Posts: 2199
- First: 11/21/2011
- Last: 3/28/2013
The shove isn't reviewable, and from the ice level view you can see that his skate blade doesn't even touch the top of the puck.From the normal view you can see him looking down, and intentionally trying to kick it in but he doesn't connect. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 12:34 AM EDT
- Eric66
- Posts: 267
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 5/15/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:I was watching it too, and I didn't see conclusively that Neil's skate touched the puck. It was called a goal on the ice, so it has to be clear that it's NOT a goal, and I don't think there's enough evidence to say that.
Posted by 49-North
did you watch the end of the video i posted a link to? Its very clear there. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 12:43 AM EDT
- Eric66
- Posts: 267
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 5/15/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:The shove isn't reviewable, and from the ice level view you can see that his skate blade doesn't even touch the top of the puck. From the normal view you can see him looking down, and intentionally trying to kick it in but he doesn't connect.
Posted by Bisson1
Thanks for the info about the shove, I didnt know that.
Do you have a replay that shows that his skate blade doesnt touch the top of the puck? because if you look at the 2nd replay in my linked video, you can clearly see the puck lying there not moving. His skate then goes over the top of the puck as he kicks at it - and clearly is the only thing that could have touched it - and it then moves into the net.
Its obvious to me that the bottom of his skate at least scraped the top of the puck and is what caused it to go in the net. Kicked in goal. If you have a video that has an angle that shows he missed it, I would like to see it. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 12:53 AM EDT
- red75
- Posts: 5719
- First: 11/28/2007
- Last: 5/23/2013
I watched it over and over again. It looks for sure like a kick, but it looks like he fanned on it. He tried to kick it in, but he whiffed. It looked like the glove gave it the extra motion. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 1:06 AM EDT
- Eric66
- Posts: 267
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 5/15/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:I watched it over and over again. It looks for sure like a kick, but it looks like he fanned on it. He tried to kick it in, but he whiffed. It looked like the glove gave it the extra motion.
Posted by red75
Take a look at this video. The 1st replay at the end shows that it was not the glove.
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,3,116&navid=sb:highlights
The second replay shows, IMO, that it was the skate. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 1:18 AM EDT
- red75
- Posts: 5719
- First: 11/28/2007
- Last: 5/23/2013
Not the glove, but neither of those clearly shows definitively that he made contact. There's another angle CBC showed that shows he went over the puck.
they ruled it a goal, they need CONCLUSIVE evidence to overturn it. I have not seen anything conclusive.
He may have kicked it in, but there's no conclusive evidence, including your clips, that proves he does. And the CBC angle makes it look like he didn't.
He tried to kick it, but the rule doesn't take trying into account. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 1:40 AM EDT
- Eric66
- Posts: 267
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 5/15/2013
I'd like to see the CBC clip, do you have a link? -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 1:55 AM EDT
- bim09
- Posts: 1984
- First: 12/25/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
Terrible officiating.
-
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 2:08 AM EDT
- red75
- Posts: 5719
- First: 11/28/2007
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:I'd like to see the CBC clip, do you have a link?
Posted by Eric66
I'm looking for a clip online, (I saw it on the broadcast - they played it over and over again) and I'll post it when I find one. It was a side angle, and it looked like he went over the puck. Definitely tried to kick it, but the side angle makes it look like he missed. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 7:46 AM EDT
- michaelf101
- Posts: 176
- First: 10/11/2009
- Last: 5/1/2012
That might have been the worst call I ever seen. Neil sticks his stick into Lundqvist side pushed him over 2 to 3 feet then kicks the puck in.There is only one team from Canada still playing was the call -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 8:01 AM EDT
- Bookboy007
- Posts: 6331
- First: 7/8/2009
- Last: 5/23/2013
In the end, I have a harder time understanding how the call on the ice was good goal. Neil had three calls from Benfica offering him a job when he came off the ice. That's how easy it was to see that he was kicking at the puck. Now, the question of did he hit it or not is beside the point here - if I'm the ref and I see a guy make that obvious of a kicking motion at the puck and then the puck goes in? No goal, but sure, let's review it to see if I'm wrong.
Loved the commentator - TSN or CBC, I forget - who said "I don't think I've ever heard a conspiracy theory that the league wants New York out of the playoffs in favour of the Ottawa market...". -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 8:04 AM EDT
- islamorada
- Posts: 3776
- First: 1/13/2006
- Last: 5/22/2013
It was a kicking motion but the contact with the puck was not made. I actually think Lunquist pushed the puck over the line inadvertently.Ottawa got rattled for a few minutes and lost the game, even if the Rangers win the next game, the other remaining teams know the Rangers are not invincible. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 8:16 AM EDT
- adkbeesfan
- Posts: 3052
- First: 1/4/2011
- Last: 5/23/2013
here's a different angle.... why is it not goalie interference? lundquist tries to cover the puck with his glove, and gets a skate full of neil? even if it's incidental and no penalty, it's still goalie interference, no? -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 8:21 AM EDT
- islamorada
- Posts: 3776
- First: 1/13/2006
- Last: 5/22/2013
Not in the blue paint adkbeesfan. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 8:24 AM EDT
- RawrBear
- Posts: 279
- First: 2/15/2011
- Last: 6/27/2012
Makeup for the headshot Neil took a few minutes earlier. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 8:58 AM EDT
- Fletcher1
- Posts: 5234
- First: 7/14/2008
- Last: 5/23/2013
Sure looked like he kicked it to me, and I'm not sure how you have a more clear kicking motion than that.
As far as Chris Neil, I found his whining to the refs about an elbow to be quite amusing given his history. It's the exact same hit he put on Boyle last game.
Neil has thrown some hits (on Chris Drury for one) which would result in 20 games in the new NHL. Then Del Zotta clips him slightly high on a marginal hit and he's screaming for justice. Funny. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 9:10 AM EDT
- adkbeesfan
- Posts: 3052
- First: 1/4/2011
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:Not in the blue paint adkbeesfan.
Posted by islamorada
what do you mean by "not in the blue paint"? am i a moron (entirely possible)? neil's skate is 1 foot from the goal line and in the blue paint. henrick tries to cover the puck, and covers the top of neils skate. somebody explain how this is not goalie interference- or am i missing something. if it's obvious, and i'm an idiot, i can handle it... -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 10:05 AM EDT
- adkbeesfan
- Posts: 3052
- First: 1/4/2011
- Last: 5/23/2013
hello... anybody out there? -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 11:11 AM EDT
- dezaruchi
- Posts: 13671
- First: 1/3/2010
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is? : what do you mean by "not in the blue paint"? am i a moron (entirely possible)? neil's skate is 1 foot from the goal line and in the blue paint. henrick tries to cover the puck, and covers the top of neils skate. somebody explain how this is not goalie interference- or am i missing something. if it's obvious, and i'm an idiot, i can handle it...
Posted by adkbeesfan
ADK, I couldn't really see a good enough angle on the "kick" but I agree that looked like goalie interference. I'm getting tired of seeing some goals scored while a guy has both feet in the blue paint. The year of the" toe in the crease" was ridiculous too but I have trouble understanding what(if anything) the new rule is. There's no way Lundqvist can do his job properly with a guy on top of him. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 11:28 AM EDT
- adkbeesfan
- Posts: 3052
- First: 1/4/2011
- Last: 5/23/2013
i think the officials were mesmerized (similiar to a magic trick) watching neils foot and the puck, meanwhile completely missing the fact that the goalie was obstructed with. lundquist covers neils skate. if they thought neil was pushed into that position, then don't call it a penalty. but it's still incidental obstruction. add it to the laundry list of what the...? when it comes to officiating this post-season. nobody knows what icing is, what a clean check is, what a clean face off is, what goalie interference is... this has been a forgetable playoffs for the nhl officials for sure. this is a really bad thing. it's beginning to feel like the refs are playing a big part in the outcome of games. it's really frustrating. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 12:20 PM EDT
- islamorada
- Posts: 3776
- First: 1/13/2006
- Last: 5/22/2013
I can always be open to being corrected, adkbeesfan. Yet the puck was in the blue paint before Neil entered the blue paint. Lundquist did not cover the puck so the puck was available to being a goal. Lastly Neil was pushed into the blue paint albeit without much resistence to hitting the goalie.That said I am not a big fan of goalie interference unless the player deliberately skates into the goalie when the puck has been covered for the whistle. The whistle is the key to me. -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 12:36 PM EDT
- nrguy
- Posts: 1350
- First: 3/18/2010
- Last: 5/23/2013
So if Lunqwist has his glove on it and Neil kicks the glove, it's not a kicked in goal because his skate didn't make contact with the puck?
That's pretty absurd to me. Why does he have to make contact with the puck if him kicking the stick and glove of Lundqwist caused the puck to go in?
Horrible call all the way around on that play. Should have been interference, should have been a kick, refs and Toronto should have used better judgement.
I agree with Torts on the bench "Are you $%#ing kidding me?" -
Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?
posted at 4/24/2012 1:13 PM EDT
- adkbeesfan
- Posts: 3052
- First: 1/4/2011
- Last: 5/23/2013
In Response to Re: If that isn't a kick, what is?:I can always be open to being corrected, adkbeesfan. Yet the puck was in the blue paint before Neil entered the blue paint. Lundquist did not cover the puck so the puck was available to being a goal. Lastly Neil was pushed into the blue paint albeit without much resistence to hitting the goalie. That said I am not a big fan of goalie interference unless the player deliberately skates into the goalie when the puck has been covered for the whistle. The whistle is the key to me.
Posted by islamorada
isla, he couldn't cover the puck in his own crease because it landed on top of neil's skate. if this is not interference, albeit incidental, what is? the goalie cannot be prevented from making a save in his crease by an opposing player. this issue has nothing to do with kicking, or being in the crease first, or how neil got in the crease. seems pretty black and white. lundquist reaches his glove out to make a save in his crease and it lands on an opposing players skate. are we all watching the same thing?