Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    Feaster's famine

    If it isn't Burke, don't fix it

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    Kel and Fletch, the You Can Play Project is something that I give Patrick and Brian Burke huge props for. It strikes me as a great, much needed, and productive endeavour. I have nothing at all against Brian Burke the person, and actually respect him for what he's done as an ally.

    I just think he's a bit overrated on a professional level.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    perry - Chara was a third round pick.  Not third overall - third round.  And he was every bit the project that suggests.

    I've never liked the teams Burke's been with, so seeing him fail was amusing. But I've always admired the one thing I think he shares with Chiarelli: he doesn't sit on his hands because the conventional wisdom says so.  He seized the opportunity to have both Neidermeyer and Pronger in Anaheim, he managed to work the tables to get the twins who have put untold $$ in the Canucks' coffers even if they haven't won a Cup, he tried to do it again to get Tavares, he made it a point of honour not to offer sheet Kessel after bad-mouthing Kevin Lowe for his offer sheet on Penner, and if it wasn't for the lack of a goaltender, his Toronto efforts might have borne fruit sooner.  He got the best players he could get, and some who weren't there for the taking, and many people think that the team he built is about to climb out of that very deep hole.

    I think he's a guy who is not afraid to take risks and thinks it's cowardly to sit and wait and try to develop kids while people pay good money for tickets. I can't argue that.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I think it's awesome that he always goes to bad teams.  It's no fun for him to keep up with the status quo.  He wants a wreck.

    I used to see him at Portland Pirates games.  No way he ever remembered my name, but knew my face.  I'd chat him up about the state of hockey in general, NHL and USA.  He was honest, accomodating and never pulled a get-out-of-this-chat move.

    He's absolutely one of my favorite people in hockey.

     




    Funny you mention this. I always kind of thought of Brian Burke as a sort of hockey version of Bill Parcells. I used to frequent Patriots training camps a bit when I got out of high school. Parcells was the coach, used to ride around in the golf cart and would put on a show for the people in attendance. Always said hi to the fans, and not matter what hat I had on, I loved minor league baseball teams hats, he would know what team it was and usually who owned them.

    used to go to the Cape all the time and watch some Cape League games. Peter Gammons was always at a game right behind the backstop and he would talk baseball with anyone. Parcells came over and chatted up Gammons, looked over to me and my girlfriend who is now my wife and said, "don't I see enough of you two? Pretty girl like that who goes to all these sporting events, she's a keeper, how ya doin darling?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    As for the You Can't Play Project, I hate it.

    I don't think it has any place in organized sports.

    I think all beliefs (be they popular or unpopular) should be discussed elsewhere.  What's next? 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    *sees the giant anvil suspended above her in the air and walks away from the bait*

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    As for the You Can't Play Project, I hate it.

    I don't think it has any place in organized sports.

    I think all beliefs (be they popular or unpopular) should be discussed elsewhere.  What's next? 



    Do you know what it's about, seriously?

    I don't know what's to be against really.  It doesn't aim to change anything political or or societal as far as I can tell -- it's about sports.  It has a pretty narrow focus on tolerance in locker rooms and eliminating what appears to be a pretty hellish experience for a segment of the population in youth/high school/collegiate sports.

    It would be nice if personal beliefs weren't aired in the locker room like you say, but they are.  All the time.  Most notably, from my memory, terms like f*gg*t and the like.  I mean, if there's no place for personal opinions in the locker room, why have terms of personal hate and sexuality against one particular group tossed around. 

    I think 'You Can Play' is actually on the side of taking the personal beliefs elsewhere...out of the locker room.  Just the old concept of treating everyone the same, really.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to red75's comment:

    Seriously, is this team just trying to get worse and worse?

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=431209

    Guess this means it's only a matter of time before PC fleeces the Flames now.




    If history repeats itself, it will be the second overall pick.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    perry - Chara was a third round pick.  Not third overall - third round.  And he was every bit the project that suggests.

    I've never liked the teams Burke's been with, so seeing him fail was amusing. But I've always admired the one thing I think he shares with Chiarelli: he doesn't sit on his hands because the conventional wisdom says so.  He seized the opportunity to have both Neidermeyer and Pronger in Anaheim, he managed to work the tables to get the twins who have put untold $$ in the Canucks' coffers even if they haven't won a Cup, he tried to do it again to get Tavares, he made it a point of honour not to offer sheet Kessel after bad-mouthing Kevin Lowe for his offer sheet on Penner, and if it wasn't for the lack of a goaltender, his Toronto efforts might have borne fruit sooner.  He got the best players he could get, and some who weren't there for the taking, and many people think that the team he built is about to climb out of that very deep hole.

    I think he's a guy who is not afraid to take risks and thinks it's cowardly to sit and wait and try to develop kids while people pay good money for tickets. I can't argue that.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     



    I always thought he was a first rounder - my bad. He was actually 56th over-all pick, according to Wiki. So it does make the Bruins the oddity of the past SC Champs. Detroit too, but it all started with a high pick in Yzerman.

     

    You are right, Burkie doesn't sit on his hands, and wait. I give him credit for that.  

     I always thought he traded for Robbie Neidermeyer, hoping that it might make Anaheim a preferred distination for Scott, should he become a UFA. Pronger kind of fell into his lap.

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    As for the You Can't Play Project, I hate it.

    I don't think it has any place in organized sports.

    I think all beliefs (be they popular or unpopular) should be discussed elsewhere.  What's next? 

     



    Do you know what it's about, seriously?

     

    I don't know what's to be against really.  It doesn't aim to change anything political or or societal as far as I can tell -- it's about sports.  It has a pretty narrow focus on tolerance in locker rooms and eliminating what appears to be a pretty hellish experience for a segment of the population in youth/high school/collegiate sports.

    It would be nice if personal beliefs weren't aired in the locker room like you say, but they are.  All the time.  Most notably, from my memory, terms like f*gg*t and the like.  I mean, if there's no place for personal opinions in the locker room, why have terms of personal hate and sexuality against one particular group tossed around. 

    I think 'You Can Play' is actually on the side of taking the personal beliefs elsewhere...out of the locker room.  Just the old concept of treating everyone the same, really.

    [/QUOTE]

    *decides to take the bait afterall*

    This.

    It is worse for guys from what I know, but if I had ten bucks for each time I'd heard the terms d*k*, carpet muncher, chapstick, lipstick, faker, or sl** f***er, in a lockerroom I would have bought the Washington Post last month. 

    You say the personal and the political has no place in sports? I agree completely, and that's the whole point of You Can Play. If you can play, then you can play - everything else should just be noise. The point is if an NHL quality player comes along, for example, it shouldn't matter if, to paraphrase Leo Durocher, "They're gay, straight, yellow, black or have stripes like a f****ng zebra." If they can play, and to Durocher's point, if they can make owners money, it should be a non-starter.

    Unfortunately, it's not. Not yet.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    Have any kids been passed over the draft because they were gay?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?


    To answer the thread question:  Calgary had one of the highest team cap hits last year.  Next year several of the potential UFAs ie. Cammalleri will be gone.  The management decided to blow up the team before the hiring of Burke.  As for Burke, I tend to agree he did make changes to a Toronto team that was Cap heavy when he was hired.  The Kessel trade really cannot be judged as of yet, but certainly PK has matured.  I did read on NHL.com of the new management alignment in Calgary.  I was a bit perplexed as to why this is a unique relationship in the NHL.  I must be missing the point of the article.  Enlightenment? 

     

    The Burke-Feaster relationship will prove to be unique.

    The Flames' new hierarchy is virtually untested in professional hockey but has a winning track record in other sports, Burke pointed out.

     http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=681512

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    I find it unfair to hang the Kessel trade 100% on Burke.  He traded futures for a player.  He had no idea that the futures would be #2 and #9.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to red75's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    As for the You Can't Play Project, I hate it.

    I don't think it has any place in organized sports.

    I think all beliefs (be they popular or unpopular) should be discussed elsewhere.  What's next? 

     

     



    Do you know what it's about, seriously?

     

     

    I don't know what's to be against really.  It doesn't aim to change anything political or or societal as far as I can tell -- it's about sports.  It has a pretty narrow focus on tolerance in locker rooms and eliminating what appears to be a pretty hellish experience for a segment of the population in youth/high school/collegiate sports.

    It would be nice if personal beliefs weren't aired in the locker room like you say, but they are.  All the time.  Most notably, from my memory, terms like f*gg*t and the like.  I mean, if there's no place for personal opinions in the locker room, why have terms of personal hate and sexuality against one particular group tossed around. 

    I think 'You Can Play' is actually on the side of taking the personal beliefs elsewhere...out of the locker room.  Just the old concept of treating everyone the same, really.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    *decides to take the bait afterall*

     

    This.

    It is worse for guys from what I know, but if I had ten bucks for each time I'd heard the terms d*k*, carpet muncher, chapstick, lipstick, faker, or sl** f***er, in a lockerroom I would have bought the Washington Post last month. 

    You say the personal and the political has no place in sports? I agree completely, and that's the whole point of You Can Play. If you can play, then you can play - everything else should just be noise. The point is if an NHL quality player comes along, for example, it shouldn't matter if, to paraphrase Leo Durocher, "They're gay, straight, yellow, black or have stripes like a f****ng zebra." If they can play, and to Durocher's point, if they can make owners money, it should be a non-starter.

    Unfortunately, it's not. Not yet.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree Red. If you can play, thats it.

    I also think that if your gay, you don't need to broadcast it. If the motto is, "If you can play, you can play" and it doesnt matter if your gay, then theres no reason for one to be going out of their way to inform people of their sexual preference. I personally, don't care to know.

    There was an incident at the high school in the town I live in last spring. Some stuff was said, kids got in trouble but one thing a coach said that stuck with me was, " His sexual preference was never an issue, until he made it one."

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I find it unfair to hang the Kessel trade 100% on Burke.  He traded futures for a player.  He had no idea that the futures would be #2 and #9.

     



    But don't you think that is still based on a Burke miscalculation.  That is, Burke thought his team was so close to being a contender that he was willing to give up draft picks for a player who might put them over the top.  In reality, they weren't close.  They were bad and they acquired a top scoring winger to put up meaningless points during lottery pick seasons...only they didn't get the lottery picks.  Kessel is at least young enough that he can be considered a future asset too, but Burke signed a lot of pricey veteran pieces when he probably would have been better off assembling future assets and youth.  I think he prolonged the stay in the basement, but convincing himself the Leafs were closer than they really were for a few years.

    At least he can't have that delusion in Calgary.  They are horrible.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    If the pick ended up being #15 instead of #2 and the B's got Forbort instead of Seguin, it would have been a slam dunk for Toronto.  Or maybe the B's pick 5th and take Nino instead.

    What Hamilton will become is unknown at this point, and so far Knight hasn't been a point scoring horn o' plenty.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    If the pick ended up being #15 instead of #2 and the B's got Forbort instead of Seguin, it would have been a slam dunk for Toronto.  Or maybe the B's pick 5th and take Nino instead.

    What Hamilton will become is unknown at this point, and so far Knight hasn't been a point scoring horn o' plenty.




    Essentially what you're saying then is that if the Leafs were a better team than they were after the deal, it wouldn't have worked out as bad for them. That's certainly true but they were still a bad team and that miscalculation is on Burke. How about the Komisarek deal? That was a doozy too.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    If the pick ended up being #15 instead of #2 and the B's got Forbort instead of Seguin, it would have been a slam dunk for Toronto.  Or maybe the B's pick 5th and take Nino instead.

    What Hamilton will become is unknown at this point, and so far Knight hasn't been a point scoring horn o' plenty.

     




    Essentially what you're saying then is that if the Leafs were a better team than they were after the deal, it wouldn't have worked out as bad for them. That's certainly true but they were still a bad team and that miscalculation is on Burke. How about the Komisarek deal? That was a doozy too.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed.The bottom line is BB thought his team was better than it was and that adding Kessel would be the cream on top. He was wrong and the Komisarek deal was another bad mistake. I guess he won the Phaneuf deal if you like Phaneuf's style of play but the jury is still out on that. From what i gather its a 50/50 split among leaf fans whether he's loved or hated.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    And Phaneuf.  I think it was obvious Phaneuf was a has been when Burke got him.

     

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    And Phaneuf.  I think it was obvious Phaneuf was a has been when Burke got him.

     

     



    During Phaneuf's first 3 years with Calgary i thought he might turn into something special but i was wrong.He's basically turned into a Ulf Samuelsson clone, takes runs at players, won't drop the gloves with anyone and isn't really a good d-man. Maybe BB will try to get him back in Calgary.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    And the Grabovski signing - 48 games and 16 points later he's bought out.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Have any kids been passed over the draft because they were gay?



    How would you ever know this?  And more importantly, which draft are you talking about?  The streaming for kids who will have the competition and coaching to make a living out of hockey - NHL, Europe, AHL, anything - starts so early that a kid could get streamed out by a rep coach. And the bigger issue is kids who stop playing because the other players make it a hostile environment.  They never get the chance to be drafted.

    You wonder how many NHL players are gay, and then how the percentage of players compares to the percentage of men in the general population, and what a comparison of those two numbers would suggest.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    In response to red75's comment:

    And the Grabovski signing - 48 games and 16 points later he's bought out.




    Coming off a 29 goal campaign and in the season of a 23 goal campaign, the options were to sign him and keep him or don't and potentially lose him.  In this case, they decided to make the player happy.

    It didn't work out.

    Tons of GMs make mistakes.  No one said Burke was flawless.

    Take a good look at Chiarelli's resume.

    How's that six year $35M contract for Seguin working out?

    Gotta love paying Rich Peverley $3M/yr to make the donuts.

    Did you see Chris Kelly last season?  You probably missed him on the score sheet but I know his banker saw him often, as he was depositing parts of his $3M salary. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Calgary trying to get the first pick?

    I think if you're going to defend Burke on the Kessel trade, the point isn't that he traded futures, it's that he decided Kessel was worth the risk.  I don't know that you can say "well, how would he know it would turn out that badly".  At least, not more than any bad trade ever.  How was Calgary supposed to know that 50 goal Gary Leeman was going to turn into a 4th liner overnight?  Vancouver wouldn't be as disappointed in the Neely trade if Barry Pederson was able to recapture his 100 point form. 

    When you drafted 7th the year of the deal, you have to be pretty clear that you could just as easily fall back - even that your margin is pretty slim.  The second year pick, yeah, I don't blame him for that as much, but he had to consider the possibility that it would be a top 5 or better pick when making that deal and decide that even the worst case scenario was worth it.

    People don't like Phaneuf.  Look at the rest of their blueline and the guys they gave up to get him.  He's their best defenseman.  He's likely to be their best defenseman for some time.  If you can get a guy with his resume for corn beef hash and used postage, you do it.  Grabovski would still be a Leaf if Burke was still there for exactly the reason shupe likes him - took a whale of a beating and still played with abandon all series.  He was Burke's guy and Burke would have given him time to find his way under Carlyle.  Komesarek -- mistake.  Can't win 'em all - and he ain't Jeff Finger.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     

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