Is PC Overrated?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Is PC Overrated?

    Worth noting that this thread is posted in the midst of Iginla signing with Colorado and the reality that last year's version of the Bruins may have been the best we will see for awhile.  Emotions are a little high and this is not a get rid of PC thread, rather an effort to apply an honest assessment of his job performance.


    On the topic of PC, have read a number of threads about the Cap crunch, what the Bruins options are and what they will do.  Have not seen much on what level of responsibility PC bears for the team being in this position where he cannot improve the team, frankly they have to take a step back.


    For me, and this is my opinion, two things jump out; drafting & contracts.  I do not think PC has lead this team well in either area. 


    Recent drafts have not produced the next level of talent that a team needs to keep re-tooling. Years 2007, 2008 & 2009 were nearly complete misses.  Remains to be seen what the 2010 and more recent drafts will yield. I am sure other teams have missed on their drafts as well, just don't think that is the metric you use to measure your own success/failure.


    On the contract front, PC has a tendency to be loose with his contract levers (leverage).  Often, PC agrees to high salary, long term and player security in the form of NMC/NTC.  The Bruins lead the NHL with 11 players with NMC/NTC's.  The Kings have one.  Quick is signed to 10 year deal for $58M without a NTC (signed in June, 2012).  Rask is signed for 8 years @ $56M with a modified NTC (signed in July, 2013).  Who would you rather have?  Quick @ $5.8M or Rask @ $7M?  Part of the "selling point" of the Seguin deal was all of the cap room that PC freed up.  Why is that a plus when it was PC that signed Seguin to that monster deal and Peverley on a premium deal for a player of his caliber.  Kelly too.  Too much salary, term and also has an NTC. 


    The other item that PC has failed to deliver on in the last 2 years is adding that piece at the deadline to put the team over the top?  Jagr for 1st rounder?  Meszaros for a 3rd rounder?  Paid premium picks for not much in terms of production.


    The "core" that PC talks about was largely inherited by him.  Bergeron & Krejci were B's property before PC's arrival.  The 2006 draft and the Rask acquisition are in dispute as to who should get credit (PC or Gorton).  Even if you believe that 2006 draft was "all PC", what has he done since then?  Kessel was a draft 2006 asset that turned into Seguin & Hamilton, then Eriksson, Smith & Hamilton.  What else?


    Interested in folks take on this.  Do you hold PC accountable for the Cap situation that the team is in today?  Has he done a good job and are you confident that he is the right guy moving forward?


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I haven't been thrilled with his drafting.  Otherwise I think he's done quite a good job.

    I have to wonder if this is a reaction to UFA frenzy day.

    With all of these huge names being moved around and the Bruins not getting anyone it feels like the rest of the league got better and the Bruins lost Iginla.

    Iginla gone - that's bad, Thornton gone - that's good, Thornton moving in next door to NAS - even better

    Let's just look at the Avs for example, they lost Stastny - and gained Iginla, so they are about the same.  I don't think that many teams improved despite the major names they acquired.  

    I also think that at least one Providence guy will make the team this year and there is enough cash left for a spare parts guy.

     

     
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    No comment.....

     Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011 & 3 more Cups by 2020

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I agree with BadHab. Drafting has been horrific but this has been talked about ad nauseum on these boards.


    While yes he did inherit the pieces that would eventually form the team's core, he has done a pretty good job keeping those pieces together. Good players get progressively good money via contracts and I don't see anyone on the roster that is ridiculously overpaid.


    And he has added pieces and made pretty bold moves when need be. Dealing Wheeler, Kessel, Seguin etc and getting solid returns that do help the club. Further...he does not tend to get sucked into signing free agents to cap crushing and stupid contracts.


    Overall, he has done an excellent job keeping the core together and the team competitive.


     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    The life of a Managing General mirrors that of his real life: up and down. No way around it.

    He has done well and he will do well again; when that will be is open to debate.

    The pieces that he has assembled remind me of the Bruins of the 70's after their Stanley Cups - good, but not good enough.

    Now that they have won the '11 Cup, screwed up in '12, blew it in '13, and misfired in '14: we are back to the mid and late '70's.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    Just three points in his defense I would like to post.


    First, he took a big gamble last season, and part of that was the projections that the cap would be $73M this year.  That $4M is a huge difference between being stuck as he is, and being able to resign Iginla with minimal roster movement.  He is to blame in that he took the risk, but I think it was a risk worth taking.


    Second, the trade deadline dealings are really hampered by Savard's money.  As-is, Chiarelli has to count on additional injuries or ship out salary to be able to add a contract worth more than $4M at the deadline.  Most other teams are able to bank space, and even if they are under the cap by only $1M can add about $5M in salary.  Cooke (and Hunwick) really screwed this team over.


    Final point, look at the contract Pouliot was given.  Look at many of the other contracts given yesterday.  The 'high salary' contracts for the Bruins are generally market value.  His freely giving NTCs is an oddity.  Has it actually hampered his ability to move someone he wanted to move yet?  Also, it's not fair to compare Quick's contract to Rask's, the new CBA made some of it's features not allowed, features that gave Quick his money but kept the cap hit down.  Even just taking the final two years off of it to make it the max 8 years, his cap hit would be $6.56M, narrowing the distance and making them functionally equivalent given the rise in the cap in between.


     


    Now, not in Chiarelli's defense is his drafting.  This season will be definitive in that regards.  Either his picks will prove their worth, or fall flat.


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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    Worth noting that this thread is posted in the midst of Iginla signing with Colorado and the reality that last year's version of the Bruins may have been the best we will see for awhile.  Emotions are a little high and this is not a get rid of PC thread, rather an effort to apply an honest assessment of his job performance.

     

    On the topic of PC, have read a number of threads about the Cap crunch, what the Bruins options are and what they will do.  Have not seen much on what level of responsibility PC bears for the team being in this position where he cannot improve the team, frankly they have to take a step back.

     

    For me, and this is my opinion, two things jump out; drafting & contracts.  I do not think PC has lead this team well in either area. 

     

    Recent drafts have not produced the next level of talent that a team needs to keep re-tooling. Years 2007, 2008 & 2009 were nearly complete misses.  Remains to be seen what the 2010 and more recent drafts will yield. I am sure other teams have missed on their drafts as well, just don't think that is the metric you use to measure your own success/failure.

     

    On the contract front, PC has a tendency to be loose with his contract levers (leverage).  Often, PC agrees to high salary, long term and player security in the form of NMC/NTC.  The Bruins lead the NHL with 11 players with NMC/NTC's.  The Kings have one.  Quick is signed to 10 year deal for $58M without a NTC (signed in June, 2012).  Rask is signed for 8 years @ $56M with a modified NTC (signed in July, 2013).  Who would you rather have?  Quick @ $5.8M or Rask @ $7M?  Part of the "selling point" of the Seguin deal was all of the cap room that PC freed up.  Why is that a plus when it was PC that signed Seguin to that monster deal and Peverley on a premium deal for a player of his caliber.  Kelly too.  Too much salary, term and also has an NTC. 

     

    The other item that PC has failed to deliver on in the last 2 years is adding that piece at the deadline to put the team over the top?  Jagr for 1st rounder?  Meszaros for a 3rd rounder?  Paid premium picks for not much in terms of production.

     

    The "core" that PC talks about was largely inherited by him.  Bergeron & Krejci were B's property before PC's arrival.  The 2006 draft and the Rask acquisition are in dispute as to who should get credit (PC or Gorton).  Even if you believe that 2006 draft was "all PC", what has he done since then?  Kessel was a draft 2006 asset that turned into Seguin & Hamilton, then Eriksson, Smith & Hamilton.  What else?

     

    Interested in folks take on this.  Do you hold PC accountable for the Cap situation that the team is in today?  Has he done a good job and are you confident that he is the right guy moving forward?

     

     




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    very well thought of post with observations & analysis....

    as for PC, lousy drafting may be catching up with the B'S sooner rather than later....  maybe as early as this coming season....

    as for his dealings, i'm on the fence on this....  while guys like Wheeler, Kessel & Seguin are producing elsewhere, aside from Dougie & Smith, the jury's still out on Louii and others acquired in these deals....

    that said, his teams have won a cup and gone to another final during his tenure....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I suppose it depends on how you look at it  and what you mean by "over-rated." 

    A lot of what you're talking about is strategy.  He didn't fail to do many of these things; he has a different strategy.  For example, contract length and security.  We forget how prevalent the feeling was that the Bruins were nickel and diming every player as recently as when Joe Thornton signed his last big deal in Boston.  Every negotiation with a key player was adversarial.  Neely signed his last big deal and commented ruefully on the Ray Bourque cap and that he signed because Ray asked him to.  Oates left in a sulpherous stink.  Something had to change in the era of free agency and the salary cap because the Bruins were going to end up in a situation where every RFA got nickeled and dimed until he could leave as a UFA, and every UFA would require them to pay a premium because players didn't want to play in Boston.  He had to change the culture to one where the team and player find what they believe is fair value for both, and then deal with the details as transparently as possible.  Doing it this way, he got Krejci to re-sign for less than market value two deals ago, and again on the deal he's on now.  He got Rask to take less than he probably could have demanded and asked him to prove he was a #1 before he got a #1's salary - Rask met the conditions and got paid.

    That there is not one player on that roster with an unreasonable deal - with the possible exception of Kelly - is remarkable.  Marchand, Seidenberg and Boychuk are probably below market as well.

    You mention Quick as a Rask comparable, but I would say the same thing you said about the draft: just because others have failed as badly or worse doesn't excuse your poor performance.  Fair enough.  But just because Quick signed for less than market value doesn't make that the standard for evaluating how Chiarelli handles his contracts for returning players.

    When talking about the greatness of last year's team, people forget that was done while managing a cap crunch as well.  It wouldn't have worked if they hadn't had four regulars on defense making EL money.  4.  On Defense.  He had answers for that need.  I think that's pretty impressive, really.

    In the endless discussions of drafts, I think this point has been raised many times: what are you judging?  Did PC win the draft?  Or do the Bruins have a chance to win it all?  If it's the latter, and I think it is, then it really doesn't matter where the players come from.  If they're college UFAs (Krug), prospects obtained in trades (Bartkowski, Smith) or whatever, the team has the players it needs to be a contender.  Until that ceases to be true, I'll cut PC slack on his drafts.  On the other hand, if the solution to this year's cap crunch once again comes from players he's added to the system or acquires via trade, I won't be surprised. 

    People make such a big deal of deadline acquisitions.  I generally like Burke's comment that if you're relying on a deadline deal to put you over the top, you probably didn't build your team correctly in the first place.  Doesn't mean it can't work, but there's truth in it.  What I have a hard time with is the idea that you would carry empty salary dollars all season just so you can add a guy at the last minute.  Cap Space scores no goals.  Why not get the right guy when you build the team to start?  The Cap has changed my stance on this a bit now, because you can add a very high salary rental player for very little cap impact if you do it as late as possible.  So there's that.  But there is also the cost of doing it every year - it depletes your ability to backfill the roster if you're always dealing picks and prospects for high end rentals.  Last year was the first time I saw the prices as low as they were for guys like Vanek and Gaborik.

    What else has PC done?  Acquired Boychuk for Matt Hendricks.  Acquired McQuaid (former 2nd rounder) for a 5th rounder.  Turned Dennis Wideman and a first into Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell - key pieces in the Cup run and Finals run.  Flipped a bunch of neverwere pieces to Florida for Seidenberg and Bartkowski.  Figured out how to win the Krug bidding war.  Resisted the temptation to fire Julien after 2010.  Flipped Brad Stuart to Calgary for pieces that had more sandpaper in Ference and Kobasew.  Won the Blake Wheeler bidding war.  Signed Ryder, who was much hated but proved very useful in winning the Cup.  Put together one  of the league's best penalty kills with the addition of Paille and Campbell.  Developed and made room for a raft of rookies - rather than trading them for deadline acquisitions.

    Put another way, he acquired every defenseman on the best defensive team in the East (whatever the debate on the Chara signing...) and most of them with minor league trades, EL signings, or by trading next to nothing to get them.  He oversaw the integration of all of those second, third, and fourth round picks who are now the core of the offense, giving them a chance rather than going for the Fanboy Solution.  And he has generally done all of this running very, very close to the Cap confident that he can figure out how to be cap compliant with his commitments.

    Anyway - long response to a long OP, but I would say no, PC is not over-rated if you think he's a shrewd asset manager who makes strategic decisions consistent with his philosophy.  I would probably say "yes, he's over-rated" if someone said he was rated a hockey genius.  He'd have to get over his love affair with smallish NCAA defensemen before I'd go there.

     

     

     

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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    In response to days-of-Orr's comment:

    while guys like Wheeler, Kessel & Seguin are producing elsewhere, aside from Dougie & Smith, the jury's still out on Louii and others acquired in these deals....

    that said, his teams have won a cup and gone to another final during his tenure....

    Part 2 is what matters most; hockey is about winning games and Cups, not trades.  Wheeler is one of those deals where he might be putting up stats but he was moved to make the team better, and they won a cup because of it, so who cares what stats Wheeler puts up on a losing team.  Ditto Kessel.  I think there's a pretty good chance that in a year or two you wouldn't trade Hamilton for Kessel straight up and make your team better.  Seguin will put up points, but it's highly unlikely he'd have put up the same points in Boston, and they filled three RW roster holes last year by making that deal.  A bounce-back by Eriksson and more of the same by Smith, plus potential contributions from Fraser and progress by Morrow and it sure seems like the team got what it needed.

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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:


    In response to days-of-Orr's comment:


    while guys like Wheeler, Kessel & Seguin are producing elsewhere, aside from Dougie & Smith, the jury's still out on Louii and others acquired in these deals....


    that said, his teams have won a cup and gone to another final during his tenure....



    Part 2 is what matters most; hockey is about winning games and Cups, not trades.  Wheeler is one of those deals where he might be putting up stats but he was moved to make the team better, and they won a cup because of it, so who cares what stats Wheeler puts up on a losing team.  Ditto Kessel.  I think there's a pretty good chance that in a year or two you wouldn't trade Hamilton for Kessel straight up and make your team better.  Seguin will put up points, but it's highly unlikely he'd have put up the same points in Boston, and they filled three RW roster holes last year by making that deal.  A bounce-back by Eriksson and more of the same by Smith, plus potential contributions from Fraser and progress by Morrow and it sure seems like the team got what it needed.

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    well put and i had forgotten some of the minor deals that have proved fruitful....


    as for the drafting you'll be hard-pressed to sway me in PC'S favour....


     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    Overrated? I think not.Two SC finals,one SC Championship,one Presidents trophy and the B's have made the playoffs every year except his first year on the job. His drafting has been suspect,but he has made changes to his scouting staff(Gretzky & Axelsson),so he recognized this weakness and made some changes. He's built a perennial Cup contender and has made changes on the fly to accommodate team needs.If there is one complaint and this only applies to the last two years,and this is only in hindsight,i wish he had brought in some better deadline acquisitions to help them in the crunch,but then again,i think he likely thought they could beat the Scabs with what they had and that Seidenberg would be back for the ECF's.Also come to think of it,he thought he had a deal for Iginla and had to settle for "Long stick" instead ,not his fault.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    I suppose it depends on how you look at it  and what you mean by "over-rated." 

    A lot of what you're talking about is strategy.  He didn't fail to do many of these things; he has a different strategy.  For example, contract length and security.  We forget how prevalent the feeling was that the Bruins were nickel and diming every player as recently as when Joe Thornton signed his last big deal in Boston.  Every negotiation with a key player was adversarial.  Neely signed his last big deal and commented ruefully on the Ray Bourque cap and that he signed because Ray asked him to.  Oates left in a sulpherous stink.  Something had to change in the era of free agency and the salary cap because the Bruins were going to end up in a situation where every RFA got nickeled and dimed until he could leave as a UFA, and every UFA would require them to pay a premium because players didn't want to play in Boston.  He had to change the culture to one where the team and player find what they believe is fair value for both, and then deal with the details as transparently as possible.  Doing it this way, he got Krejci to re-sign for less than market value two deals ago, and again on the deal he's on now.  He got Rask to take less than he probably could have demanded and asked him to prove he was a #1 before he got a #1's salary - Rask met the conditions and got paid.

    That there is not one player on that roster with an unreasonable deal - with the possible exception of Kelly - is remarkable.  Marchand, Seidenberg and Boychuk are probably below market as well.

    You mention Quick as a Rask comparable, but I would say the same thing you said about the draft: just because others have failed as badly or worse doesn't excuse your poor performance.  Fair enough.  But just because Quick signed for less than market value doesn't make that the standard for evaluating how Chiarelli handles his contracts for returning players.

    When talking about the greatness of last year's team, people forget that was done while managing a cap crunch as well.  It wouldn't have worked if they hadn't had four regulars on defense making EL money.  4.  On Defense.  He had answers for that need.  I think that's pretty impressive, really.

    In the endless discussions of drafts, I think this point has been raised many times: what are you judging?  Did PC win the draft?  Or do the Bruins have a chance to win it all?  If it's the latter, and I think it is, then it really doesn't matter where the players come from.  If they're college UFAs (Krug), prospects obtained in trades (Bartkowski, Smith) or whatever, the team has the players it needs to be a contender.  Until that ceases to be true, I'll cut PC slack on his drafts.  On the other hand, if the solution to this year's cap crunch once again comes from players he's added to the system or acquires via trade, I won't be surprised. 

    People make such a big deal of deadline acquisitions.  I generally like Burke's comment that if you're relying on a deadline deal to put you over the top, you probably didn't build your team correctly in the first place.  Doesn't mean it can't work, but there's truth in it.  What I have a hard time with is the idea that you would carry empty salary dollars all season just so you can add a guy at the last minute.  Cap Space scores no goals.  Why not get the right guy when you build the team to start?  The Cap has changed my stance on this a bit now, because you can add a very high salary rental player for very little cap impact if you do it as late as possible.  So there's that.  But there is also the cost of doing it every year - it depletes your ability to backfill the roster if you're always dealing picks and prospects for high end rentals.  Last year was the first time I saw the prices as low as they were for guys like Vanek and Gaborik.

    What else has PC done?  Acquired Boychuk for Matt Hendricks.  Acquired McQuaid (former 2nd rounder) for a 5th rounder.  Turned Dennis Wideman and a first into Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell - key pieces in the Cup run and Finals run.  Flipped a bunch of neverwere pieces to Florida for Seidenberg and Bartkowski.  Figured out how to win the Krug bidding war.  Resisted the temptation to fire Julien after 2010.  Flipped Brad Stuart to Calgary for pieces that had more sandpaper in Ference and Kobasew.  Won the Blake Wheeler bidding war.  Signed Ryder, who was much hated but proved very useful in winning the Cup.  Put together one  of the league's best penalty kills with the addition of Paille and Campbell.  Developed and made room for a raft of rookies - rather than trading them for deadline acquisitions.

    Put another way, he acquired every defenseman on the best defensive team in the East (whatever the debate on the Chara signing...) and most of them with minor league trades, EL signings, or by trading next to nothing to get them.  He oversaw the integration of all of those second, third, and fourth round picks who are now the core of the offense, giving them a chance rather than going for the Fanboy Solution.  And he has generally done all of this running very, very close to the Cap confident that he can figure out how to be cap compliant with his commitments.

    Anyway - long response to a long OP, but I would say no, PC is not over-rated if you think he's a shrewd asset manager who makes strategic decisions consistent with his philosophy.  I would probably say "yes, he's over-rated" if someone said he was rated a hockey genius.  He'd have to get over his love affair with smallish NCAA defensemen before I'd go there.

     

     

     

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    Thanks for the response book, always value your pov.

    A take issue with a few of your conclusions, however.

    To suggest that PC needed to give Rask $7M per year for 8 years and a modified NTC as a cultural shift from the Sinden years is rubbish.  When does the statue of limitations run out that?  Ray Bourque?  Just stop it.  The teams has been overly fair in granting contracts and rarely do we evaluate them and say, "wow, great deal for the Bruins on that one".  It's easy to look at the absurd money that was thrown around yesterday and say, "see, PC did it right", but in many cases PC's extensions were to RFA's as compared to the bidding war on UFA's.  Not apples to apples.

    Contracts have been a problem with PC.  From Ryder to Peverley to Seguin to Kelly.  Guy pays premiums on salary, term and player security.  Great for players, perhaps even great for culture, but not great for payroll flexibility.  They are not brutal, however are too much.  A small percentage of a big number is still a pretty big number.   Aren't you the one that used to mock "cap space" threads anyway?  Glad to see your position has evolved.

    Trading?  I give high marks to PC in the early years for some of his trades.  Boychuck (2008), McQuaid (2007), Seidenberg (2010) as you point out, as well as, Recchi (he picked up a 2nd in that deal).  Worth remembering that he also traded Sobotka for Warsofsky and Versteeg for Bochenski, so not all winners. 

    I like PC, just trying to figure out the accountability.  Is he architect of the 2010-11 Stanley Cup Champs or is he the GM that painted himself into Cap Jail?  I guess he is both.  Deserves a ton of credit for building a winner, but is dealing with the challenges of paying the players that delivered on that success.

    The deadline deals are slippery slope and I get that.  My point there was tell me how you are feeling about giving up a 3rd rounder for a guy barely stepped on the ice? 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    days, I think my point is that yes, PC sucks at the draft, but that's not the only, or even the most important, variable here.

    Someone should figure out a 2006-2010 best draft success list and weight it for things like overall number of picks on-ice success.  A quick look at the Kings and Blackhawks - the only teams who have had more playoff success than the Bruins over the last 5 years - and they both set the foundation of their teams through the draft but mostly back when they couldn't carry water in a bucket.  Chicago has had a couple of good recent picks contributing with Saad, Shaw, and Pirri, and LA hit on Toffoli and Pearson, but the real strength of their past drafts is the depth they've gotten from it.  Good drafting or good coaching?

     

     

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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I took a different approach when viewing his drafting by looking at prospects he brought in via trade and free agent rookie signing or players who have never played in the NHL. Do I care now how long it took Soderberg to come over ?


    Svedberg, Krug and Miller are virtually draft picks in my view, PC hit home runs with those free agent signings but not Grand Salami's...didn't have to use a draft pick. Look at the development of Boychuk, McQuaid and now Smith if he increases his goal totals. All through trades. If Soderberg doesn't hurt his eye he probably comes over earlier and really he is a prospect who took over the 3rd line. These mentioned players can be considered draft picks.


    "Do you hold PC accountable for the Cap situation that the team is in today ?"


    Yes I do but i do think having to possibly unload Kelly and Boychuk to free up space does happen to GMs, it does happen to some of the real good ones. See Stan Bowman summer of 2010. There is way out though and that is through trade where PC has been very successful.


    Trade deadline is an absolute fault of Chiarelli's except for 2011 which paid off handsomely. 2012, 2013 and 2014 were horrific and his answer "well I always get a bad grade on trade deadline day" isn't going to cut it anymore. He needs to do a better job and I have a year to point too as a good example.


    "are you confident that he is the right guy moving forward?"


    Yes I believe PC will find a way to rid the Bruins of Kelly's contract, find a right-handed shot for the 3rd line, keep a youth movement moving up and the Bruins will contend for the next 3 years under PCs watch. 


    I expect snags in the grand plan because of injuries and cap issues.


    PS. There is potential in draft picks Trotman, Florek, Spooner and KoKo. So as Crowles mentioned, I'll hold off on 2010 and 2011 draft success grades just yet. Again I don't care how long it takes for the rook to get to the show after the EL contract is signed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I think the culture thing with Rask is that he made him a promise - sign for below market now and I'll pay you market value for a long term deal based on your performance.  See Dr. CC's point on the Quick comparison for the purposes of establishing what market would have been.

    Generally, Crowls, my point is just this - we saw the Bruins try to win the contract vs. the players for 30 years.  Going the other route over the last what, 8?, has delivered more playoff success than the other way.  And he's never had a hard time moving a guy because of his salary.  He dealt Kobasew and got value.  He dealt Sturm to create space.  He dealt Morris to create space (and that was a UFA signing).  He moved Peverley's deal.  He even moved absent Tim Thomas's money.  Eventually, if you assemble the number of mature, quality players PC has, you're going to be up against the Cap.  You can look at this as a function of not holding the line on contracts, or you can look at the fact the Bruins are consistently competitive and say well, I don't know how he'll do it, but he seems to find a way?

     

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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    Pretty hard to have a good discussion about this topic when the drama and negativity meter is pinned....but it's going well so far.

    I think he's doing a good job.  You can't look at todays realities to decide that either.  You have to look back, and make your choice as to whether his logic made sense at the time.

    PC can't be blamed for the Canadian dollar, and that's what kept the Cap down for 13/14.  Good teams always have to make some tough decisions in a cap league.  Look at Chicago after their first Cup in 50 years.  they had to cut a few guys loose they didn't want to.

    You can't "manage' a team to the Cup, and here's what puts all this Iginla negativity in perspective for me.  I think very few people would argue the fact that Jerome was a huge upgrade over Nathan Horton.  Overall, he was better defensively, tougher, he scored more, and even with the bonuses...a bargain.

    The team didn't go as far though.  Whose to say they won't slip a few positions in the seedings, and still not make the conference finals.  Even with an unreplaced Iginla, I don't see another team in the East, that the Bruins have no chance against.

    Drafting?  Yeah I guess, but only because the GM has to jump up and take responsibility for everything...good or bad.  You could say the same thing about Edmonton, with their record.

    I guess he has a lot of NMC's, but I'd lioke to know more about each negotiation before I lump that to mean something about his ability.  I don't think any of his contracts are out of the way except maybe Kelly, and one isn't bad for any GM.  He also has some contracts that are really good, but I think the days are gone, where anything is too far out in left field(other than bidding on UFA's)  Coupled with the Cap, there are just too many comparabless. 

    Staying with the Iginla footnote...I loved the guy in Boston.  Wish he would have stayed.  But then I see reality.  Even with a 75 mil cap, I wouldn't want him at 5.5 til he's 40.  It's idiotic to assume he would sign for the Bruins for a "lot less"...so move on.  Nobody's fault.  Just the way it goes, and this example is like so many others.

    Can he do better, sure.  Has he made some mistakes, sure, but I feel he's a very competent NHL GM.

    On the other hand....and I've defended him plenty....is CJ over rated?  The team historically underdelivred in 10, laid an egg in 12 and 14.  IMO, they didn't bring it to their potential against the Hawks in 13, yet many feel during those years...the Bruins had the best team.  If that is, in fact true....isn't coaching success measured, not just by wins and losses, but more on ones ability to get "more wins" than a teams overall ability would suggest?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pucman. Show pucman's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    He's fielded a really good team for 4-5 years now & kudos has to be given to him for the many accomplishments the team has had.Would this even be a discussion if all of us are not curious, wondering what the team is going to consist of this year?  Has the cap battle caught up to the Bs where really you don't even know what the teams going to be. I,ve questioned my math skills on here many times & really nobody has stepped up to help me out so here we go again. I look on cap geek & there is like 300,000$ to spend & you have Smith, Krug & Bartkowski to sign..... Is this even possible?  Help me if I'm looking at something wrong

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    They have $5.6M to fill 3F and 1D.  Nearly half of that could go to Smith.  I don't see any way forward that doesn't involve shedding salary.

    CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
    CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
    FORWARDS
    Milan Lucic ($6.000m) / Patrice Bergeron ($6.500m) / Carl Soderberg ($1.008m)
    Brad Marchand ($4.500m) / David Krejci ($5.250m) /
    Loui Eriksson ($4.250m) / Gregory Campbell ($1.600m) /
    Daniel Paille ($1.300m) / Chris Kelly ($3.000m) /
    DEFENSEMEN
    Zdeno Chara ($6.917m) / Dennis Seidenberg ($4.000m)
    Johnny Boychuk ($3.367m) / Adam McQuaid ($1.567m)
    Dougie Hamilton ($0.894m) /
    Kevan Miller ($0.800m) /
    GOALTENDERS
    Tuukka Rask ($7.000m)
    Niklas Svedberg ($0.600m)
    LTIR
    Marc Savard ($4.027m)
    BONUS OVERAGE
    $4,779,500
    ------
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (estimations for 2014-15)
    SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,332,000; BONUSES: $600,000
    CAP SPACE (17-man roster): $5,668,000

    -- Proud user of http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8vclq_sgc2c-69-chambraigne" rel="nofollow">Chambraigne; Now with Wiener Scent! --

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    That's about it Doc. Something has to give....

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pucman. Show pucman's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    Thanks Dr. Appreciate that.  Kinda glad I was wrong but!  Still doesn't look good

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I know the B's are a lot better off since he has come here. They may have not been able to sign Iginla and are up against the Cap but they have a good core of players to show for it. I think most G.M's would trade with positions with him.




     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    I'd have a hard time decoupling CJ from the roster to say yea or nay to him being over-rated.  I'm not 100% sure what this group of players would accomplish under, say, Laviolette.  I think they're more than the sum of the parts, which is CJ's doing, but I agree that they have laid some monstrous eggs against Philly, Washington and Montreal.  Even before that, they cacked out against the 'Canes.  I sometimes wonder if the expectations of them are too high based on their regular season success, but I'm not sure it's an easy thing for them to fly higher without a fairly complete overhaul.  Say, going back to 2011, they lose to Montreal in the first round and decide that the time to play to make Seguin and Hamilton the centrepieces is 2013 - so start bringing in the high-octane guys and hope Tuukka can hold the fort....

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    Notice too how those teams with ample cap space tend to be the bottom feeders. a tight cap is an indication for the most part that a team has quality players on its roster.

    Not always but true to an extent. You need good players and good players cost money. Can't have a whole team on EL contracts and expect to be a contender.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    I suppose it depends on how you...

    ...his love affair with smallish NCAA defensemen before I'd go there.

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!



    Book, seriously?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is PC Overrated?

    He's made some great trades.  Kessel, Seguin, Soderberg, Seidenberg, Horton/Campbell

    He's been limited on his bad deals.  Versteeg.

    He can't draft.  Plain and simple.  He cannot draft.

    His contracts have been suspect to average at best.

    He consistently has been failing at the deadline.  

    Boy that Cup victory was great.  

    Compared to his contemporaries, I'd give me a "B" or "B-".

     
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