Is Sobotka really that good?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    The Bruins got Dennis Wideman for Brad Boyes.  The Blues traded Boyes for a 2nd round pick, so any Blues fan who's stunned at the Bruins giving up on him has been in a long term coma.  The Sabres gave up on him next.  Then the Islanders.  Then he got a tryout with the Panthers.  Oh the regret...

    And I watched Sobotka for two season or so and found him likeable.  A fan favorite type, who worked hard with a limited skill set.  After the team chemistry that won the 2011 Cup and critically important emergence of Brad Marchand though, I am baffled that anyone is second guessing PC on moving Sobotka.  That's marco stuff.  You can't have your roster, with all of the wins, and then also have other guys there hypothetically.  Sobotka means no Marchand.  No Marchand could eaisly mean no Cup.

    No regrets.  Good for the Blues that it's working out.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:[QUOTE] Chiarelli is always getting himself in trouble with cap sapce, he put himself there.

    Sobotka is doing better than Ok. He's flourishing on a very good team.[/QUOTE]

     I like that he is unafraid to make moves he thinks will make the team better (taking on salary in the Horton/Campbell deal) regardless of the Cap consequences because he's confident he'll be able to minimize the impact on the team.  Use every dime and then some; make the tough choice when necessary to remain compliant.  Can't keep 'em all, and sometimes you can't maximize the return if there's no market for an asset.  [/QUOTE]


    The Horton/Campbell trade had nothing to do how PC put himself up against the cap in the first place. Wideman, Ryder and Sturm's deals sure did though. Chiarelli survived because of Savard's LTIR.

    PC did not learn from previous contracts by putting himself right back up against the cap with the Kelly and Peverly deals. Chiarelli said it himself that he would have had to move salary out in order to bring in scoring depth during the trade deadline presser. But couldn't because he was up against the cap. He put himself there.

    Sobotka makes $1.3M right now, at the time of the deal his cap hit was $583K. Caron makes $640K. Yep that is maximizing especially the difference from they bring to the ice.

    Pandawful, Rolston and Daugvins over Sobotka...give me a break.

    Wash, rinse and repeat.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seems like one of Chiarelli's moves that doesn't look good on his resume.  Seems like at the time he had to go.

    [/QUOTE]

    Since the trade:

    Krejci
    Bergeron
    Kelly
    Campbell

    Cup

    1st place (playoff crash, yes, but that was all Pouliot's fault)

    Finals

    1st place by a mile in the division careening towards another Cup run.

    -

    I'd say Chiarelli made the right decision.

    Futhermore, Sobotka is as elite as Zenon Konopka.  Both are great at faceoffs.  Sobotka's career high is eight goals.  If he's elite, Greg Campbell is a Hall of Famer.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty sure that Krecji and Bergeron were already on the team.  This was back before we were good, but on the upswing.  No issue with Chiarelli, I just never thought Sobotka was projected to be an impact player...I thought he was a NHL 3rd line center with some grit, but apparently he is more than that.  The Blue's seem to value him highly and they seem like the Bruins of the West --- from the description he sounds like a B's kind of player

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:[QUOTE] This was a bad trade for the Bruins; Sobotka for Warsofsky.  Sobotka was/is a solid 3rd liner that can play C/W.  Has great jam in his game, very gritty.

    Only fair, since the B's got Soderberg for Toivonen a few years earlier.

    Would rather have Soderberg than Sobotka, so there you go.  [/QUOTE]


    The only problem I had was the return, PC gave away an NHL starter. Now if Chiarelli spins Warsofsky for a good player later then anyone could say it panned out. Making room for Campbell was not a bad thing, it was the return.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the point is that he wasn't going to be a starter.  He might not have even made the team, and it could have been at Marchand's expense if he did.  The Bruins had Savard, Krejci, Bergeron and Campbell at C going into that year, Lucic, Horton, Wheeler, Ryder, Recchi, Paille and Thornton on the wing, leaving one spot open, and they knew they were getting Seguin.  They also had some problem child who had scored at every level in Marchand.  To that point in his career, Sobotka had played 134 games, scored 6 goals, and put up 16 assists.  In 116 games, Caron has 12 goals, 15 assists.  Cap or no cap, there was no room at the inn.  I'm also guessing there wasn't a huge market for a 3rd or 4th liner who doesn't fight but yet puts up Shawn Thornton-like numbers.  Getting Warsofsky, who at least had some profile as a WJHC level player, wasn't a bad return if you're just looking to make the best deal at that moment.

    [/QUOTE]

    Kid was still only 22 at the time.  If memory servves correctly, he finished the year strong and was really good in the playoffs.  Not sure the rush to move him? 

    Not an elite scorer type, but a valuable contributor.  Not sure why folks are unwilling to agree to that.   Warsofsky has not been a good return for Sobotka to-date, guess you can rationalize it by saying he didn't have that much value.

    I don't know, I remember threads being out there with people being pizzed that he was traded. Pretty sure I created one.

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sobotka makes $1.3M right now, at the time of the deal his cap hit was $583K. Caron makes $640K. Yep that is maximizing especially the difference from they bring to the ice.

    Pandawful, Rolston and Daugvins over Sobotka...give me a break.

    Wash, rinse and repeat.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sobotka is a center.  Campbelll makes $1.6M, $300K more than Sobotka.

    Which would you prefer?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    The bottom line for me is that Sobotka played 3 season in Boston and played about 125 games.  He had 22 points over that time and was -16.

    I liked him and I don't doubt that he kept getting better.  But Chiarelli made a number of roster changes around 2010 (even before he knew his #1 center would suddenly have his career ended).  The roster and cap space from the changes brought about room for Horton, Campbell, Seguin, and Marchand to become full time players for the 2010-11 season.

    The net result of these moves:  A Stanley Cup.

    The new guys played a very significant role in it too.

    Three years later, one of the guys who was moved is having a nice season as a complimentary player on the Blues 3rd line...

    Do we care?  Not me.  Good for Vlad.  Good for PC.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sobotka makes $1.3M right now, at the time of the deal his cap hit was $583K. Caron makes $640K. Yep that is maximizing especially the difference from they bring to the ice.

    Pandawful, Rolston and Daugvins over Sobotka...give me a break.

    Wash, rinse and repeat.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sobotka is a center.  Campbelll makes $1.6M, $300K more than Sobotka.

    Which would you prefer?

    [/QUOTE]


    Sobotka all day long

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxt. Show mxt's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    34 career goals in 367 games. Yeah, I'd say that's elite

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    I'm pretty sure Duinne wrote that article.

     

    What?? Too soon?

    I'll show myself out

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:[QUOTE] Chiarelli is always getting himself in trouble with cap sapce, he put himself there.

    Sobotka is doing better than Ok. He's flourishing on a very good team.[/QUOTE]

     I like that he is unafraid to make moves he thinks will make the team better (taking on salary in the Horton/Campbell deal) regardless of the Cap consequences because he's confident he'll be able to minimize the impact on the team.  Use every dime and then some; make the tough choice when necessary to remain compliant.  Can't keep 'em all, and sometimes you can't maximize the return if there's no market for an asset.  [/QUOTE]


    The Horton/Campbell trade had nothing to do how PC put himself up against the cap in the first place. Wideman, Ryder and Sturm's deals sure did though. Chiarelli survived because of Savard's LTIR.

    PC did not learn from previous contracts by putting himself right back up against the cap with the Kelly and Peverly deals. Chiarelli said it himself that he would have had to move salary out in order to bring in scoring depth during the trade deadline presser. But couldn't because he was up against the cap. He put himself there.

    Sobotka makes $1.3M right now, at the time of the deal his cap hit was $583K. Caron makes $640K. Yep that is maximizing especially the difference from they bring to the ice.

    Pandawful, Rolston and Daugvins over Sobotka...give me a break.

    Wash, rinse and repeat.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're right - better to carry a bunch of un-used cap space for 60 games just in case you want to acquire a rental.

    The point about Daugavins etc. makes no sense.  There was never a point where Chiarelli chose these three guys or whoever or Sobotka, and besides, what is Sobtoka other than that grinder/mucker you dislike so much? What should they have done - buried Sobotka in the minors so that he'd be available 2 or 3 years later?  Chiarelli traded the kid to a place where he could play.  He was showing respect for a player and still got a prospect who may yet play or turn into something. 

    I fundamentally disagree that Chiarelli had "something to learn" about the way he does deals.  Chiarelli has changed the way the franchise handles contract negotiations and thereby changed the perception among players that they are a nickel and dime franchise who looks to squeeze every dollar from their players in negotiations.  Fans love to say guys are overpaid, but if you look at the market value of similar players, they almost never are.  Even when they are, the market catches and passes that value on almost every deal Chiarelli has ever signed.  And he has had very little difficulty finding takers when the player hasn't performed to expectations - Peverley, Kobasew, Morris....

    Three, four years after they dealt him, Sobotka is taking on a bigger role for a good team and playing with pretty fine linemates.  His numbers are going up accordingly.  Good for him.  Should they have waited four years for him or made moves that ended up with a Cup and a Cup run?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to mxt's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    34 career goals in 367 games. Yeah, I'd say that's elite

    [/QUOTE]


    Internet access is blocked in my basement.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    What would have been a good return for Sobotka at that moment in his career?  Just out of curiousity.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Chiarelli turned Brad Boyes into Nathan Horton, to an extent.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SoxFanInIL's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I vaugely remember the conventional wisdom story at the time was that Sobotka was traded as he was taking the blame for the Sobotka/Marc Savard Chinese Fire drill at the Boston bench that caused a Too Many Men on the ice call leading to a goal in Game 7 of the 3-0, 3-0 "uh oh" series vs Philly?

    I should just look that up, but I'm too lazy right now.  Does that sound familiar?

    Anyway, living 90 miles from St Louis I encounter all sorts of Blues fans. To a man they believe Sobotka is a tremendous player and are stunned that the Bruins gave him to the Blues, the same way they remain stunned they gave them Brad Boyes.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I do remember that being mentioned.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Chappy28's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I remember him being scrappy, but didn't think anybody expected him to be "elite" as this article describes him.  Is it true?

     

    http://thehockeywriters.com/vladimir-sobotka-return/

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The writer of this article knows nothing about hockey.

    He should be the NHL beatwriter for BleacherReport.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    "Should they have waited four years for him or made moves that ended up with a Cup and a Cup run?"

     

    Depends on how you feel about the alternatives in the 2012, 2013 and 2014 playoffs. The extra forwards, or 3rd and 4th line starters were as mentioned... Pandawful, Rolston, Daugvins and Caron. PC is the one who needs to think of the right players to have around in case of injuries.

    Don't you make room for a player like Sobotka instead of the players Chiarelli took off the scrap heap ?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Sobotka is an elite 3rd line center? Right,and Jordy Caron is an elite penalty killer,give me a break.The B's had no room for Sobotka and needed cap room,thats the end of the story, glad he's found a home in St. Louis with all that other elite talent.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What would have been a good return for Sobotka at that moment in his career?  Just out of curiousity.

    [/QUOTE]

    They could have at least repeated the Toivonen return...

    Just gotta be patient...Neely and PC as Vladimir and Estragon...

    'Waiting for Soda'

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    The writer of this article knows nothing about hockey.

    He should be the NHL beatwriter for BleacherReport.

    [/QUOTE]


    Geez....easy kel...that's dirty...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    "The B's had no room for Sobotka and needed cap room"

     

    Put there by PC

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Truthfully, I liked Sobotka too, and was bummed to see him go.  

    But I'm not sure how you can criticize PC for some unfavorable cap situation in 2010, when he resolved it by winning the Stanley Cup in 2011.  

    I mean, how can we get into ifs and buts about a 3rd/4th line player, 4 years after he left, when the Bruins won it all with a roster in 2011 that inspired everyone, top to bottom.

    It seems too much like Stanley complaining that Canada could've won gold "more easily" with Ryan Johanson, and therefore it was a mistake not to have him.

    The proof is in the pudding.  Sobotka left and it opened a door, most directly, for Brad Marchand to become a full timer in 2011 (not Daugavins 3 years later).  It worked.  Best roster and results in 40 years.  Maybe it would be nice to have Sobotka right now, but not if it un-does 2011.  Too hypthetical for me.

    That said, duinne's picture was so dreamy...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beezfan4life. Show Beezfan4life's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What would have been a good return for Sobotka at that moment in his career?  Just out of curiousity.

    [/QUOTE]

    Would have loved Malkin...but had to settle on Warsofsky . Jezuz h krist , he was a 4th liner on Boston , he's turned out to be a key cog in St. Louis , it's not like we were giving up a future HOF player , for an AHL D . the Blues got a mucker for their 4th line , the Bruins went on to win the cup....I can live with that .

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "The B's had no room for Sobotka and needed cap room"

     

    Put there by PC

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep. He spent every dime to put together the best team he could at the time.  That didn't incude waiting for Sobotka, who I remember as fun to watch but erratic and prone to dumb penalties - just like Marchand, but Marchand learned to score at this level.

    And you've basically proven it wasn't a Cap move.  It was a no room move.  Kid had enough games in the NHL that they would have lost him if they'd tried to send him down, and it wouldn't have been fair even if they did manage to get him back down.  I love how it's somehow possible for Sobotka to have been on the team two years later without suggesting who would not be on the team.

    Hate the Pandawful and Daugavins moves all you want, but they have nothing to do with Sobotka.  I'm sure if he was available, PC would have been happy to bring him back at that point.  He wasn't.  Boo hoo.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    I'm gong to be leaving for my Friday night game soon.  Hopefully when I get back this thread will be done.

    Far far too much energy has been expended on a fairly pedestrian NHL player.

    Sobotka is miles away from scoring a career high point total higher than Meszaros (39 pts).

    He's scored a career high 8 goals which he has equaled this year, but unlikely he'll get as many as 15.

    He seems to get injured a slightly more than most.

    Let's see if Sobotka can crack Campbell's career high of 13 g and 19 assists (32 pts) this year.

    This is much ado about nothing.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    - 61.2% on draws

    - 1:54 PK TOI (3rd on team among forwards for league's 3rd best PK)

    - 1:34 PP TOI (can contribute in all situations; 1-4-5 on PP for league's 4th best PP)

    - 88 hits (3rd on team among forwards)

    - 47 games 8-20-28

    - Named to Czech Olympic Team

     

    Nobody is saying HOF for the guy, but discounting his contributions to the Blues (best record in the NHL) is like saying Kelly, Campbell and Paille are equally as disposable for the Bruins.  Think we all know better than that.

     

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