Is Sobotka really that good?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    "Should they have waited four years for him or made moves that ended up with a Cup and a Cup run?"

     

    Depends on how you feel about the alternatives in the 2012, 2013 and 2014 playoffs. The extra forwards, or 3rd and 4th line starters were as mentioned... Pandawful, Rolston, Daugvins and Caron. PC is the one who needs to think of the right players to have around in case of injuries.

    Don't you make room for a player like Sobotka instead of the players Chiarelli took off the scrap heap ?




    No it doesn't.  You're forgetting that the B's won the Cup in 2011?  That's all that matters.  Moving Sobotka was one action that allowed the team that won the Cup to be assembled.

    Jeez. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    - 61.2% on draws

    - 1:54 PK TOI (3rd on team among forwards for league's 3rd best PK)

    - 1:34 PP TOI (can contribute in all situations; 1-4-5 on PP for league's 4th best PP)

    - 88 hits (3rd on team among forwards)

    - 47 games 8-20-28

    - Named to Czech Olympic Team

     

    Nobody is saying HOF for the guy, but discounting his contributions to the Blues (best record in the NHL) is like saying Kelly, Campbell and Paille are equally as disposable for the Bruins.  Think we all know better than that.




    Nope didn't him in 2012 nor 2013. Spend away on Peverly, Kelly and lets keep an eye on that scrap heep.

    All hail the Mucker!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    - 61.2% on draws

    - 1:54 PK TOI (3rd on team among forwards for league's 3rd best PK)

    - 1:34 PP TOI (can contribute in all situations; 1-4-5 on PP for league's 4th best PP)

    - 88 hits (3rd on team among forwards)

    - 47 games 8-20-28

    - Named to Czech Olympic Team

     

    Nobody is saying HOF for the guy, but discounting his contributions to the Blues (best record in the NHL) is like saying Kelly, Campbell and Paille are equally as disposable for the Bruins.  Think we all know better than that.




    Nope didn't him in 2012 nor 2013. Spend away on Peverly, Kelly and lets keep an eye on that scrap heep.

    All hail the Mucker!



    Calm down Stanley.  Peverley and Kelly were a big part of a Bruins team that won the Stanley Cup.  I couldn't care less that PC traded away Sobotka to make that happen.  I can't understand how any Bruins' fan would care.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    - 61.2% on draws

    - 1:54 PK TOI (3rd on team among forwards for league's 3rd best PK)

    - 1:34 PP TOI (can contribute in all situations; 1-4-5 on PP for league's 4th best PP)

    - 88 hits (3rd on team among forwards)

    - 47 games 8-20-28

    - Named to Czech Olympic Team

     

    Nobody is saying HOF for the guy, but discounting his contributions to the Blues (best record in the NHL) is like saying Kelly, Campbell and Paille are equally as disposable for the Bruins.  Think we all know better than that.




    Nope didn't him in 2012 nor 2013. Spend away on Peverly, Kelly and lets keep an eye on that scrap heep.

    All hail the Mucker!



    Calm down Stanley.  Peverley and Kelly were a big part of a Bruins team that won the Stanley Cup.  I couldn't care less that PC traded away Sobotka to make that happen.  I can't understand how any Bruins' fan would care.  



    Any chance trading Sobotka was still a bad move, yet the Bruins were able to win the Cup anyway.  Meaning, not every move is utter genius, right?  Even PC is allowed a mistake, these moves are not mutally exclusive.

    Wonder if PC still thinks Warsofsky for Sobotka was good return?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    But hey, if one cup is Ok ? then the trade worked out.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

     

    Any chance trading Sobotka was still a bad move, yet the Bruins were able to win the Cup anyway.  Meaning, not every move is utter genius, right?  Even PC is allowed a mistake, these moves are not mutally exclusive.

    Wonder if PC still thinks Warsofsky for Sobotka was good return?



    Exactly ! I'm happy with the state of the Bruins even if I would've liked Sobotka to stay besides many of PC moves panned out pretty good and helped to bring the cup.  Right now I wouldn't go back and change anything , even the little mistakes along the way .

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    But hey, if one cup is Ok ? then the trade worked out.




    One cup ??? pfffft , wouldn't it be lovely a Bruins-Blues final ?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    This was a reasonable return for a guy that couldn't make your team.

    No regrets on this trade.

    Bruins trade Sobotka Updated: June 26, 2010, 10:42 PM ET By Joe McDonald | ESPNBoston.com

    LOS ANGELES -- Boston Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli just announced the trade of forward Vladimir Sobotka to the St. Louis Blues in exchange for defenseman David Warsofsky, who is playing at Boston University.

    Sobotka Sobotka

     

    Chiarelli said the Bruins have no plans to take Warsofsky out of school, but the organization really likes the way he plays. Sobotka was a sparkplug for the Bruins and played a total of 134 regular-season games for Boston in the last three seasons, recording six goals and 16 assists for 22 points. The 22-year-old can play both center and wing and posted a minus-16 rating.

    "He's a wrecking ball, a real competitive kid," Chiarelli said. "We acquired Greg Campbell [earlier this week] and we've got some other centers coming in. Vlady, on the wing and with his size, it's not that he has difficulty, but he's had trouble adjusting. I talked to Vlady and he's happy that we're giving him a chance somewhere else. He's a good kid and I like the way he plays, and moving to another organization he'll get a better chance."

    Warsofsky, 20, is a junior at BU and is a native of Marshfield, Mass. He's played 79 games for the Terriers, posting 15 goals and 31 assists for 46 points and 75 penalty minutes. During the 2009-2010 season, he played 34 games and scored a career-high 12 goals, while tying his career-high with 23 points.

    He also played for the United States National Development team in 2007-2008. The 5-foot-9, 170-pounder was originally drafted in the fourth round (95th overall) in the 2008 draft by St. Louis.

    The 5-foot-10, 183-pound Sobotka was Boston's fourth-round pick (106th overall) in the 2005 draft.

    In related action on Saturday, the Bruins made qualifying offers to restricted free agent defensemen Mark Stuart and Adam McQuaid, along with forward Blake Wheeler.

    Forward Daniel Paille has yet to be qualified, but he will be soon, according to Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli. Goaltender Kevin Regan was not qualified.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Let's start a thread about Wheeler.  There's another trade that doesn't look good for the Bruins.  He has led the Jets in scoring since they acquired him.  Who cares that the Bruins won the cup?  Look at the talent they gave away to get there.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Or look at the return. Which is what the discussion is about. Wheeler wasn't even a top 9 player for the Bruins at the time of the trade. Blake is a real good player for a non-playoff team. Sobotka contributes a ton to the Blues.

    The trades weren't the same and neither are the players Sobotka and Wheeler. Comparing the two swaps is much more Stanleyish.

    Your happy with one cup I am not. The return for Sobotka, an NHL starter, was not good.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    I think the Bruins have as good a chance at winning the Cup as the Blues.  Where do you see Sobotka fitting in on this Bruins roster?  Krejci, Bergeron and Campbell have been great in the playoffs.  That leaves Soderberg's spot.  No thanks, good luck in St. Louis Vlady.  In a fantasy world, sure I'd take Sobotka on this team as a fifth center.  In reality, there's just no room.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    Let's start a thread about Wheeler.  There's another trade that doesn't look good for the Bruins.  He has led the Jets in scoring since they acquired him.  Who cares that the Bruins won the cup?  Look at the talent they gave away to get there.



    Great point.  Go start a Wheeler thread so the grown-ups can discuss Sobotka.

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    Let's start a thread about Wheeler.  There's another trade that doesn't look good for the Bruins.  He has led the Jets in scoring since they acquired him.  Who cares that the Bruins won the cup?  Look at the talent they gave away to get there.



    Great point.  Go start a Wheeler thread so the grown-ups can discuss Sobotka.

     

     



    Or I could say Sobotka's awesome on the PP because one of his eight goals came on the PP.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    In reality, there's just no room.




    But there is for Caron and was for Rolston/Pandwaful/Daugvins. Sobotka cap hit was under $600K at the of the trade and PC had RFA right for a few more years.

    The argument that Sobotka coulod only slot in as a center is wrong.

    How would Vlad have looked slotting on for Campbell last year ? or on the 3rd line during the 2012 playoffs ?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    How do you think Sobotka would feel about being a spare part for six years?  I don't think he would be happy about being a Caron.  It wouldn't be fair to him and he would've asked to be traded.  That's what I meant by fantasy vs. reality.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    Let's start a thread about Wheeler.  There's another trade that doesn't look good for the Bruins.  He has led the Jets in scoring since they acquired him.  Who cares that the Bruins won the cup?  Look at the talent they gave away to get there.



    Great point.  Go start a Wheeler thread so the grown-ups can discuss Sobotka.

     

     



    Or I could say Sobotka's awesome on the PP because one of his eight goals came on the PP.  



    Nobody said awesome.  He has been called solid/good player.  Not sure why that is so hard for you?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE}


    Nobody said awesome.  He has been called solid/good player.  Not sure why that is so hard for you?

    [/QUOTE]

    This debate is going all over the place, but I would argue that it isn't really about whether Sobotka is a good player in 2014 or not.  At least, it shouldn't be.  Everyone can see that he's a good player now.  

    But in 2010 and 2011, roster adjustments were made that directly led to the ultimate goal.  PC nailed it. 4 years later, Sobotka is better than he used to be.  Using that fact as a judgment that the Stanley Cup roster should been different (no Marchand would have been the reality of keeping Vlad) seems crazy.  Suggesting that fans like me (who don't second guess the winning roster of 2011) don't care about a second Cup now is also crazy.  

    Tough decisions have to be made to build a winning roster.  Sometimes good players go elsewhere.  The best way not to have to worry about those tough decisions after the fact wouldbe to win the Cup.  They did.  

    What else is there?  28 points, 3 years later, on the Blues 3rd line.  Who cares?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Bottom line even a bad trade can win you a cup. Hard to weigh in the intangibles.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Yah must have been tough to bring in players on there way out of the league when you had an NHL player on your roster. Nah the Bruins had the right roster in 2012 and 2013 to step in when a player went down. It's all about the cup run.

    Who cares about were Caron and Warsofsky might be next year. There return had value.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

     Nah the Bruins had the right roster in 2012 and 2013 to step in when a player went down. It's all about the cup run.

     



    When a franchise hasn't won a Stanley Cup in 39 years i don't think their worrying about 2 or 3 Cups,their worrying about winning the 1st one,which they did.I don't think that PC's mindset was  we haven't won our 1st Cup yet but we better keep Sobotka for depth on our 2nd & 3rd Cup runs.Sobotka got traded,the B's won the Cup,the rest is woulda coulda's.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Sobotka=autocup. The Bruins were on the verge of becoming a dynasty and they had to get rid of Sobotka.  Why, PC, why?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE}


    Nobody said awesome.  He has been called solid/good player.  Not sure why that is so hard for you?



    This debate is going all over the place, but I would argue that it isn't really about whether Sobotka is a good player in 2014 or not.  At least, it shouldn't be.  Everyone can see that he's a good player now.  

    But in 2010 and 2011, roster adjustments were made that directly led to the ultimate goal.  PC nailed it. 4 years later, Sobotka is better than he used to be.  Using that fact as a judgment that the Stanley Cup roster should been different (no Marchand would have been the reality of keeping Vlad) seems crazy.  Suggesting that fans like me (who don't second guess the winning roster of 2011) don't care about a second Cup now is also crazy.  

    Tough decisions have to be made to build a winning roster.  Sometimes good players go elsewhere.  The best way not to have to worry about those tough decisions after the fact wouldbe to win the Cup.  They did.  

    What else is there?  28 points, 3 years later, on the Blues 3rd line.  Who cares?



    Can't argue with the macro view of the moves and the result.  Not what I am trying to do.  Just think it's ok to let inside of that and assess individual moves.  Not every move is a win.

    Simply saying that the B's did not get good return for Sobotka when looking at it now or then.  If the B's got a piece that helped them win, then ok. Like acquiring Kaberle, I have zero beef with that move, others disagree.

    Seems like the argument in favor of moving Sobotka is:

    - Cap space (he was an RFA and got $750k from the Blues after making $583k with the B's)

    - acquired Warsofsky

    - Freed up roster spots for other players

    That doesn't seem like very good return for him then and certainly not 4 years later.  I am a PC supporter, but think he whiffed on this one, that's all.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    8 wins in a row!!!!!!!!!

    Who cares about Vladimir Sobotka.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    8 wins in a row!!!!!!!!!

    Who cares about Vladimir Sobotka.



    Yeah & Yeah !!!!!!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

     Nah the Bruins had the right roster in 2012 and 2013 to step in when a player went down. It's all about the cup run.



    When a franchise hasn't won a Stanley Cup in 39 years i don't think their worrying about 2 or 3 Cups,their worrying about winning the 1st one,which they did. I don't think that PC's mindset was  we haven't won our 1st Cup yet but we better keep Sobotka for depth on our 2nd & 3rd Cup runs.Sobotka got traded,the B's won the Cup,the rest is woulda coulda's.


    That's a GM of your dreams. Making sure you have proper depth so you don't waste time with P00P00,  Rolston/Pandwaful/Daugvins and Caron is what was left.

    Sobotka for an AHL defenseman is still awful. Plug in play muckers in Boston has a distinct history. Please do ignore the facts.

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