Is Sobotka really that good?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    How about you Sobotka people (Crowls/Sandog) get on a plane to Denver next Friday and we can settle this mano a mano over a bottle of Jameson before the Bruins game...?

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Sobotka for an AHL defenseman is still awful. Plug in play muckers in Boston has a distinct history. Please do ignore the facts.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not really,in your mind i guess.B's have a Cup,have been to another and are leading the East,all in the absence of a 28pt,"elite" 3rd line center,thats alright in my books,but you can lament what could have been,thats your prerogative.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Truthfully, I liked Sobotka too, and was bummed to see him go.  

    But I'm not sure how you can criticize PC for some unfavorable cap situation in 2010, when he resolved it by winning the Stanley Cup in 2011.  

    I mean, how can we get into ifs and buts about a 3rd/4th line player, 4 years after he left, when the Bruins won it all with a roster in 2011 that inspired everyone, top to bottom.

    It seems too much like Stanley complaining that Canada could've won gold "more easily" with Ryan Johanson, and therefore it was a mistake not to have him.

    The proof is in the pudding.  Sobotka left and it opened a door, most directly, for Brad Marchand to become a full timer in 2011 (not Daugavins 3 years later).  It worked.  Best roster and results in 40 years.  Maybe it would be nice to have Sobotka right now, but not if it un-does 2011.  Too hypthetical for me.

    That said, duinne's picture was so dreamy...

    [/QUOTE]

    This statement ends this foolish arguement! Every team can't keep every player on hunches, or on a low body of work. To blame PC for letting Sobotka go the way this team as been since he's been gone is just purposely being augumentive for no reason, or petty.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    But I'm not sure how you can criticize PC for some unfavorable cap situation in 2010, when he resolved it by winning the Stanley Cup in 2011.  

    I mean, how can we get into ifs and buts about a 3rd/4th line player, 4 years after he left, when the Bruins won it all with a roster in 2011 that inspired everyone, top to bottom.



     To blame PC for letting Sobotka go the way this team as been since he's been gone is just purposely being augumentive for no reason, or petty.[/QUOTE]

    You explain to me how P00P00, Rolston, Pandwaful, Daugvins and Caron are better than $583K Sobotka ?

    You can't and calling out a "Stanley" excuse is laughable. PC evaluates the talent he has at his hands. You wouldn't know the difference between "petty" and a crackpot who starts threads every two days about some binky prospect if it came up and slapped you in the face.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    But I'm not sure how you can criticize PC for some unfavorable cap situation in 2010, when he resolved it by winning the Stanley Cup in 2011.  

    I mean, how can we get into ifs and buts about a 3rd/4th line player, 4 years after he left, when the Bruins won it all with a roster in 2011 that inspired everyone, top to bottom.

    [/QUOTE]

     To blame PC for letting Sobotka go the way this team as been since he's been gone is just purposely being augumentive for no reason, or petty.[/QUOTE]

    You explain to me how P00P00, Rolston, Pandwaful, Daugvins and Caron are better than $583K Sobotka ?

     

    You can't and calling out a "Stanley" excuse is laughable. PC evaluates the talent he has at his hands. You wouldn't know the difference between "petty" and a crackpot who starts threads every two days about some binky prospect if it came up and slapped you in the face.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the fact that the Bruins have been one of the best teams in the league since Sobotka has left leaves you left with nothing to base your arguement on whether or not PC did the right thing. You're being petty sandog to continue this arguement over a Sobotka. What has St. Louis done with him in the lineup in the play-offs? Nadda...Nothing Ziltch!  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:[QUOTE]

    You can't and calling out a "Stanley" excuse is laughable. PC evaluates the talent he has at his hands. You wouldn't know the difference between "petty" and a crackpot who starts threads every two days about some binky prospect if it came up and slapped you in the face.[/QUOTE]

    Sobotka has left leaves you left with nothing to base your arguement on whether or not PC did the right thing. You're being petty sandog to continue this arguement over a Sobotka. What has St. Louis done with him in the lineup in the play-offs? Nadda...Nothing Ziltch!  [/QUOTE]


    Yah I didn't think you had an answer and I was right.

    Clueless to what Chiarelli put out on the ice the two years after.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattbs. Show mattbs's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Can't complain about trades that led the B's to win the cup.  Same goes for the JT trade that allowed us to sign Captain Z.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle-Salty. Show Uncle-Salty's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to mattbs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can't complain about trades that led the B's to win the cup.  Same goes for the JT trade that allowed us to sign Captain Z.

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed. The JT trade made everything that we enjoy today possible. Even though we got crap back for Joe it paved the way to the cup.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    I'm not sure if Crowls and SanDog are serious or if they're just goofing around or if they've been taken over by HFBoards-itis.

    Either way, straight up, Sobotka for Warsofsky is a deal that wouldn't be made today.  Either way, it doesn't matter because the deal was made years ago and was one of many deals that shaped the roster to the first Stanley Cup in my lifetime.

    So I couldn't care less if Sobotka ends up scoring 858 goals.  The Bruins won the Stanley Cup and it was awesome.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxt. Show mxt's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    Can't believe this threads still going, and I just added to it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    At the time of the trade Sobotka was in and out of the lineup due to inconsistent play. Yes he was an NHLer...........but an erratic one at best.

    He was fighting for ice time among the rest of the mucker/grinders. 

    Trading a bottom end forward like Sobotka for a prospect is a trade that happens all the time. The Bruins identified Warsofsky as a depth player for their future. The same type of role that Sobotka was filling.

    Seems like fair value at the time for someone who didn't project as a winger and among a group of centers which made him expendable.

    Kelly and Campbell have filled the 3rd and 4th line center roles efficiently for the Bruins. If still a Bruin, Sobotka would be buried in the minors.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:[QUOTE]

     

    But I'm not sure how you can criticize PC for some unfavorable cap situation in 2010, when he resolved it by winning the Stanley Cup in 2011.  

    I mean, how can we get into ifs and buts about a 3rd/4th line player, 4 years after he left, when the Bruins won it all with a roster in 2011 that inspired everyone, top to bottom.

    [/QUOTE]

     To blame PC for letting Sobotka go the way this team as been since he's been gone is just purposely being augumentive for no reason, or petty.[/QUOTE]

    You explain to me how P00P00, Rolston, Pandwaful, Daugvins and Caron are better than $583K Sobotka ?

     

    You can't and calling out a "Stanley" excuse is laughable. PC evaluates the talent he has at his hands. You wouldn't know the difference between "petty" and a crackpot who starts threads every two days about some binky prospect if it came up and slapped you in the face.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oookay.  Let's try this one last time.

    1. The Return.  The point re: using the Cup win to justify what they got for Sobotka considering what he has become since is win now/build for later.  Chiarelli made a win now move by bringing in Campbell rather than wait for Sobotka to become as good as Campbell.  Sobotka was erratic.  Like Marchand, he played on the edge of control, which meant he wasn't always as responsible as Campbell.  For 2010-11, Campbell was an upgrade that led to a win. 

    2. Keeping Sobotka.  With the acquisition of Campbell and Horton, and drafting Sequins, the Bruins had no room for a forward other than a 13th forward.  Sobotka had been a starter.  Making him a 13th forward would have killed his development.  He would not be the player he is now.  Part of the point of moving him was giving him an opportunity to become that player elsewhere - one of those things that classy organizations do in their own self-interest because they get a rep for being honourable.  With Sobotka gone (after three years of opportunity to prove himself), another AHLer who had nothing left to prove in the A got his shot - Marchand. That's a direct 1:1.  Keeping Sobotka would likely have meant no Marchand.

    3. Instead of Sobotka.  Pandawful played 18 games for the Bruins two seasons after VS was traded.  Daugavins played 6 and 6 playoff games 3 years later.  Both were brought in as veteran, bottom of the roster insurance - not regulars as Sobotka would have expected to be.  No 1:1 equivalence there.  Pouliot played on year and was a better scoring threat than Sobotka had ever been at the NHL level until this year, and they gunned him for it. 

    4. Why the rush?  Waivers.  Sobotka would not have made it to Providence, so the Bruins would have had to keep him sitting in the pressbox as a Caron.  Again, if they do that, he's not the player he is today.  It's virtually impossible to find a scenario where today's Bruins roster includes the VS who plays for St.Louis today.

    5. "Players Like Sobotka".  This seems to be the crux of the ongoing conversation. It's not so much that they should have kept Sobotka (again, virtually impossible) but that they should have received more for him so that they would have a Sobotka-like player to play instead of Pouliot, Bourque or Daugavins, and Warsofsky has yet to meet that expectation. This assumes that the only way to obtain that player was to get him in exchange for VS, bt even if you take that out - Warsofsky has played almost as many games this year as Daugavins did last year, so he's getting awfully close to fulfilling that expectation.

    Evaluating that deal based on who VS is today and who Warsofsky is today is a silly as evaluating the McQuaid for a 5th deal.  McQuaid wins a Cup with the Bruins - great return for a 5th rounder.  5th rounder becomes Jamie Benn. Bruins didn't get enough for that 5th rounder.

    None of the above implies that VS is anything less than a very effective player under Ken Hitchcock.  Good for him.  If a former Bruin prospect makes good elsewhere, it's not always a bad thing. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    People discount that he was a point-per-game in each of his 3 stints with Providence.  In 68 AHL games, he was 34-40-74.  He also added 2 playoff goals with the B's in 2007-08 as a 20 year-old and played gritty minutes in 13 playoff games in 2009-10. 

    He was just shy of his 23 birthday when he was dealt.  It all worked out in the end, but does that mean that you can't be critical of this single deal?  So, we are saying that PC got all of right?  100%?  Bochenski for Versteeg also help them win the Cup, is that one off limits too?

    Sobotka's AHL numbers are better than Spooner.  Since there is no clear spot for Spooner in the immediate future, the group think seems to suggest that PC should deal him for a mid-round undersized Hockey East defenseman? 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:[QUOTE]

     

    But I'm not sure how you can criticize PC for some unfavorable cap situation in 2010, when he resolved it by winning the Stanley Cup in 2011.  

    I mean, how can we get into ifs and buts about a 3rd/4th line player, 4 years after he left, when the Bruins won it all with a roster in 2011 that inspired everyone, top to bottom.

    [/QUOTE]

     To blame PC for letting Sobotka go the way this team as been since he's been gone is just purposely being augumentive for no reason, or petty.[/QUOTE]

    You explain to me how P00P00, Rolston, Pandwaful, Daugvins and Caron are better than $583K Sobotka ?

     

    You can't and calling out a "Stanley" excuse is laughable. PC evaluates the talent he has at his hands. You wouldn't know the difference between "petty" and a crackpot who starts threads every two days about some binky prospect if it came up and slapped you in the face.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oookay.  Let's try this one last time.

    1. The Return.  The point re: using the Cup win to justify what they got for Sobotka considering what he has become since is win now/build for later.  Chiarelli made a win now move by bringing in Campbell rather than wait for Sobotka to become as good as Campbell.  Sobotka was erratic.  Like Marchand, he played on the edge of control, which meant he wasn't always as responsible as Campbell.  For 2010-11, Campbell was an upgrade that led to a win. 

    2. Keeping Sobotka.  With the acquisition of Campbell and Horton, and drafting Sequins, the Bruins had no room for a forward other than a 13th forward.  Sobotka had been a starter.  Making him a 13th forward would have killed his development.  He would not be the player he is now.  Part of the point of moving him was giving him an opportunity to become that player elsewhere - one of those things that classy organizations do in their own self-interest because they get a rep for being honourable.  With Sobotka gone (after three years of opportunity to prove himself), another AHLer who had nothing left to prove in the A got his shot - Marchand. That's a direct 1:1.  Keeping Sobotka would likely have meant no Marchand.

    3. Instead of Sobotka.  Pandawful played 18 games for the Bruins two seasons after VS was traded.  Daugavins played 6 and 6 playoff games 3 years later.  Both were brought in as veteran, bottom of the roster insurance - not regulars as Sobotka would have expected to be.  No 1:1 equivalence there.  Pouliot played on year and was a better scoring threat than Sobotka had ever been at the NHL level until this year, and they gunned him for it. 

    4. Why the rush?  Waivers.  Sobotka would not have made it to Providence, so the Bruins would have had to keep him sitting in the pressbox as a Caron.  Again, if they do that, he's not the player he is today.  It's virtually impossible to find a scenario where today's Bruins roster includes the VS who plays for St.Louis today.

    5. "Players Like Sobotka".  This seems to be the crux of the ongoing conversation. It's not so much that they should have kept Sobotka (again, virtually impossible) but that they should have received more for him so that they would have a Sobotka-like player to play instead of Pouliot, Bourque or Daugavins, and Warsofsky has yet to meet that expectation. This assumes that the only way to obtain that player was to get him in exchange for VS, bt even if you take that out - Warsofsky has played almost as many games this year as Daugavins did last year, so he's getting awfully close to fulfilling that expectation.

    Evaluating that deal based on who VS is today and who Warsofsky is today is a silly as evaluating the McQuaid for a 5th deal.  McQuaid wins a Cup with the Bruins - great return for a 5th rounder.  5th rounder becomes Jamie Benn. Bruins didn't get enough for that 5th rounder.

    None of the above implies that VS is anything less than a very effective player under Ken Hitchcock.  Good for him.  If a former Bruin prospect makes good elsewhere, it's not always a bad thing. 

    [/QUOTE]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bftQ4xxFc

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    At leat this isn't about Kessel or Seguin, that's about the best I can say for this thread.

    I liked Sobotka, he was and is a decent player.  If you want to call this a mistake by PC, fine.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    It's been four years since he was dealt and there's still no room for him on this team.  Krejci, Bergeron, Soderberg, Kelly and Campbell.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    "Chiarelli trades Sobotka Bruins win the cup"

     

    Yah that's what I remember in the Boston newspapers the next day LoL

     

    "Instead of Sobotka.  Pandawful played 18 games for the Bruins two seasons after VS was traded.  Daugavins played 6 and 6 playoff games 3 years later.  Both were brought in as veteran, bottom of the roster insurance - not regulars as Sobotka would have expected to be.  No 1:1 equivalence there.  Pouliot played on year and was a better scoring threat than Sobotka had ever been at the NHL level until this year, and they gunned him for it. "

     

    Thank you for proving my point so thanks. Really no need to try again. I had to read "bottom of the roster insurance" again just to make sure it was actually there. Yah there was insurance all right.

    No your right, there wasn't 1:1 equivalence when comparing Sobotka to those players. Just not a very good spin but a good read however.

    PS. Pouliot's shot into Washington's bench in game 7 was an especially nice scoring touch. How could PC not re-sign P00P00!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    People discount that he was a point-per-game in each of his 3 stints with Providence.  In 68 AHL games, he was 34-40-74.  He also added 2 playoff goals with the B's in 2007-08 as a 20 year-old and played gritty minutes in 13 playoff games in 2009-10. 

    He was just shy of his 23 birthday when he was dealt.  It all worked out in the end, but does that mean that you can't be critical of this single deal?  So, we are saying that PC got all of right?  100%?  Bochenski for Versteeg also help them win the Cup, is that one off limits too?

    Sobotka's AHL numbers are better than Spooner.  Since there is no clear spot for Spooner in the immediate future, the group think seems to suggest that PC should deal him for a mid-round undersized Hockey East defenseman? 

    [/QUOTE]


    I agreet that in 2014, it's looking like a loser for Boston.  I find it sheer lunacy for someone to say that it was a bad deal because in 2012, the B's had subpar forwards.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    People discount that he was a point-per-game in each of his 3 stints with Providence.  In 68 AHL games, he was 34-40-74.  He also added 2 playoff goals with the B's in 2007-08 as a 20 year-old and played gritty minutes in 13 playoff games in 2009-10. 

    He was just shy of his 23 birthday when he was dealt.  It all worked out in the end, but does that mean that you can't be critical of this single deal?  So, we are saying that PC got all of right?  100%?  Bochenski for Versteeg also help them win the Cup, is that one off limits too?

    Sobotka's AHL numbers are better than Spooner.  Since there is no clear spot for Spooner in the immediate future, the group think seems to suggest that PC should deal him for a mid-round undersized Hockey East defenseman? 

    [/QUOTE]


    I agreet that in 2014, it's looking like a loser for Boston.  I find it sheer lunacy for someone to say that it was a bad deal because in 2012, the B's had subpar forwards.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    BINGO!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Evaluating that deal based on who VS is today and who Warsofsky is today is a silly as evaluating the McQuaid for a 5th deal.  McQuaid wins a Cup with the Bruins - great return for a 5th rounder.  5th rounder becomes Jamie Benn. Bruins didn't get enough for that 5th rounder.

    None of the above implies that VS is anything less than a very effective player under Ken Hitchcock.  Good for him.  If a former Bruin prospect makes good elsewhere, it's not always a bad thing. 

    [/QUOTE]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bftQ4xxFc

    [/QUOTE]

    Nice suit.  Still comes down to having a choice between waiving him, press-boxing him, and moving him so the kid has a shot to develop.  Stupid PC having too many NHL assets and having to move one for less than the player would turn out to be worth three years later!  Stop it!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Chiarelli trades Sobotka Bruins win the cup"

     

    Yah that's what I remember in the Boston newspapers the next day LoL

     

    "Instead of Sobotka.  Pandawful played 18 games for the Bruins two seasons after VS was traded.  Daugavins played 6 and 6 playoff games 3 years later.  Both were brought in as veteran, bottom of the roster insurance - not regulars as Sobotka would have expected to be.  No 1:1 equivalence there.  Pouliot played on year and was a better scoring threat than Sobotka had ever been at the NHL level until this year, and they gunned him for it. "

     

    Thank you for proving my point so thanks. Really no need to try again. I had to read "bottom of the roster insurance" again just to make sure it was actually there. Yah there was insurance all right.

    No your right, there wasn't 1:1 equivalence when comparing Sobotka to those players. Just not a very good spin but a good read however.

    PS. Pouliot's shot into Washington's bench in game 7 was an especially nice scoring touch. How could PC not re-sign P00P00!

    [/QUOTE]

    Okay, I give up...time to put you in that crooked home we saw on 60 minutes.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    I loved Sobotka as a player and was dissappointed to see him go.  I saw above that he was called inconsistent and or unproven.  That is not true, in his final season he had established himself as a very good bottom 6 center in my opinion.  I think he had shown equally that he could not be an NHL wing.  One last thing, at the time I thought he had offensive potential to go with his proven abilities, I was wrong.

    Would I want Campbell or Sobotka.  I would take Sobotka. 

    Was Warsofsky a good return?  At the time I think people lumped him, Krug and one more PMD into a group and the thought was we needed one to make it.  Had it been Warsofsky who arrived first rather then Krug, then this deal looks like a steal.  If Warsofsky contributes significantly at the NHL level with the B's I think this deal is a wash.

    Surprised this thread is filled with so much passion, as I don't remember Sobotka having that many fans while he was here.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Okay, I give up...time to put you in that crooked home we saw on 60 minutes.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ah, one of my all-time favorite lines there.  

    Another classic from the nursing home that applies here:

    Nurse "Well, aren't you just full of pi$$ and vinegar?"

    Grandpa "...you're half right..."

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Is Sobotka really that good?

    How in the hell did this thread last 4 freakin pages?

     

     

Share