Is This a Clean Hit?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Is This a Clean Hit?

    Garbut (DAL) on Perry last night.  The announcers claim an elbow to the head, but I don't see it.  You make the call.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnVHnfYSCbs

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    The elbow appears to hit his chest, but some part of Garbutt (awful name) comes in contact with Penner's head with enough force to knock him TF out.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    I agree that this is a tough one hang.  Perfectly borderline.  Looks kind of 'predatory', but at the same time I think he kept the arm tucked, wasn't too late, didn't target the head, etc.

    I do think the hit comes in a little higher than it needs to.  Garbut leaves his feet right around the point of impact, probably a split second after.  He looks like he is trying to catch Penner with the shoulder right around the chin, but doesn't do anything blatantly illegal.

    On the other hand, Penner sets himself up for a hit by slowly curling to the middle with his head down.  So its tough, you want to protect players and stop concussion-causing hits, but what do you ding Garbut on here?  Malice?

    I'd say no suspension, but if I'm the Kings, I'd call for a Garbutt-kicking the next time you see them...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    I was watching those replays earlier; I still can't decide what happened.  Aside from charging, I'm not sure Garbutt did anything in the wrong.  It's amazing that not a single camera appears to show the entire incident.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    I'm still trying to see how he caught him - did his forearm come up into the chin/jaw?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    Yeah I cant find where he hits the head.  I do think it does look like he leaves his feet though. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4cKI2Eipr0

    And then there's this one from Saturday night, Grabner on Gerbe.  This is definitely a head shot IMO.  

    Not a good weekend for last names beginning with G.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    Yeah, I think Grabner is getting suspended  (even if you have to be on your knees to hit Gerbe below the head...).

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    The play was not illegal, but those rock hard shoulder pads can really cause damage. Where's Don Chery when you need him ?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to bogie6's comment:

    The play was not illegal, but those rock hard shoulder pads can really cause damage. Where's Don Chery when you need him ?



    I don't know bogie - like I said I can't figure out the impact point, but regardless it still looks like he leaves his feet prior to full contact. Looks to me like he jumped into the hit and that his getting airborne wasn't due to the impact of the collision. That's illegal regardless of whether it's a head shot or not.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    Shanahan will call this predatory, and it is, but so are lots of legal hits. The difference here is he left his feet and the player was injured. I say the wheel lands on 2 games but who really knows. It's an in-person hearing which sometimes means more games in the press box.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from G4ck5. Show G4ck5's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    The hit of Penner was a bad hit you can see that Garbutt leave his feet first and foremost because of that Garbutt's shoulder hits Penner in the chin/jaw area. Shoulder to the hit should get a game or 2.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    Left his feet to make the hit and Penner was in a vulnerable position. I think in this case if the player making the hit doesn't have a history then a fine would be my judgement call.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    I don't think it is clear when he left his feet, and as I understand it, its only illegal to leave you're feet in delivering check (before), not as a result of contact.

    I think Garbut launches himself upwards and tries to get his shoulder pad under the chin, but if I'm defending the hit to Shanny, I show him this freeze frame and say 'who left their feet?'

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In the argument to Shanahan I don't think you can defend "blind side".

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    I don't know San, it doesn't look blindside to me.  Also, I don't see charging, I don't see an elbow, I don't him leaving his feet prior to the check, and it doesn't look late.

    The only question to me is whether there was targeting of the head or not.  He got mostly the body which seems to be a key point for Shanny, but I do think he launches himself upwards at the point of impact to put that shoulder pad right under Penner's chin.

    So I could see it going either way.  It looks 'predatory', I guess, but I don't know exactly what rules were broken.  I think a fine or perhaps a game is the most likely outcome.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    I don't think it is clear when he left his feet, and as I understand it, its only illegal to leave you're feet in delivering check (before), not as a result of contact.

    I think Garbut launches himself upwards and tries to get his shoulder pad under the chin, but if I'm defending the hit to Shanny, I show him this freeze frame and say 'who left their feet?'



    And you'd be right but it won't matter. Shanny can fall back on subjectives like "predatory", "vulnerable position", etc. if he wants to penalize Garbut and I believe he will.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    Garbut is going for an in person hearing.  Grabner's is on the phone.  Just the opposite of what I would have done.  I guess someone needs to be injured for Shanny to get mad.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    I don't know San, it doesn't look blindside to me.  Also, I don't see charging, I don't see an elbow, I don't him leaving his feet prior to the check, and it doesn't look late.

    The only question to me is whether there was targeting of the head or not.  He got mostly the body which seems to be a key point for Shanny, but I do think he launches himself upwards at the point of impact to put that shoulder pad right under Penner's chin.

    So I could see it going either way.  It looks 'predatory', I guess, but I don't know exactly what rules were broken.  I think a fine or perhaps a game is the most likely outcome.




    Because of Shanahan's inconsitency I don't think what I think should be done, I guess at what the ruling might be. There is no consitency.

    I thought there would be just a phone hearing, apparently not.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    Because of Shanahan's inconsitency I don't think what I think should be done, I guess at what the ruling might be. There is no consitency.

    I thought there would be just a phone hearing, apparently not.

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree. Shanahan has been pretty consistent in lowering the boom when there has been a questionable hit that results in an injury. Not that the penalty has been consitent but the fact that there is a penalty of some sort has been consitent.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    I don't know San, it doesn't look blindside to me.  Also, I don't see charging, I don't see an elbow, I don't him leaving his feet prior to the check, and it doesn't look late.

    The only question to me is whether there was targeting of the head or not.  He got mostly the body which seems to be a key point for Shanny, but I do think he launches himself upwards at the point of impact to put that shoulder pad right under Penner's chin.

    So I could see it going either way.  It looks 'predatory', I guess, but I don't know exactly what rules were broken.  I think a fine or perhaps a game is the most likely outcome.




    Because of Shanahan's inconsitency I don't think what I think should be done, I guess at what the ruling might be. There is no consitency.

    I thought there would be just a phone hearing, apparently not.



    Agreed.  I thought Shanahan started out with consistency, and then really fell off the rails.  Makes no sense to me.

    Like hang, I would've thought Grabner's was worse than Garbut's.  Grabner's hit is a fairly obvious head shot from the blindside, on a vulnerable oppenant.  It's the Daniel Paille hit.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

    I think Garbut launches himself upwards and tries to get his shoulder pad under the chin,



    This in itself should be worthy of a suspension if that is, indeed, what he is trying to do. This ain't football after all.....

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    I saw the shoulder to the head.  Yup it was a "Savard" blindside with a jump.  Suspension.  

     

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In the argument to Shanahan I don't think you can defend "blind side".




     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    I saw the shoulder to the head.  Yup it was a "Savard" blindside with a jump.  Suspension.  



    Time to watch the Cooke/Savard incident again, Isla.  They are vastly different.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is This a Clean Hit?

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    I saw the shoulder to the head.  Yup it was a "Savard" blindside with a jump.  Suspension.  

     



    It looks like they're pretty much facing each other at the point of contact to me.

    Also important to note that Cooke got just the head on Savard, 100%, nothing else.  Garbut gets the body very squarely here.  It's just a matter of whether his shoulder also catches the chin or not.

     
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