Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

     

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    Why not kick him with the skate blade then NAS?  Sandog is right, it's not a street fight out there.  It can't be.

     

     

    Because that would be assault with a deadly weapon as opposed to a fist fight. 

    For all of those who are harping on "the code", I wonder if you've ever been in a fight.  Not a play fight with the fake punches, but a full blown Hulk eyes angry fight.  Anger causes many things to happen.  Lots of common and acceptable thought processes are thrown out the window.  Some fights aren't calculated, methodical exchanges.  Some fights are pure madness.

    And those are the types of fights I like to see in hockey.  Ones borne from anger, not skating clowns earning their paycheck or Torres vs. Mayers stupidity.

     /QUOTE]

    Well, if the fight needs to be so "real" why don't guys use everything at their disposal to win?  If I was in a street fight behind a bar, I'd use whatever I had.

    Hockey is different.  I totally agree on the preference to actual fights that result from real anger and emotion, as opposed to staged ones where the goons hug each other afterwards.  But there has to be limits on the violence within a hockey game, or guys would choke, kick, bite*, double-team, or whatever.  Why not choke a guy out?  I've been mad enough.  And since you ask, yes, I've been in hockey fights.

    I think that you stop driving punches into a guy who's down and injured for the same reason you don't have a teammate hold his arms back while you hit him.  We can quibble over where the line of decency should be, but clearly there is one.  Maybe it's murky and maybe some of us disagree about it, but everyone should acknowledge that a line exists, no matter how mad you are.  In my opinion Rinaldo took it too far by continuing to drive punches into a clearly injured opponent.

    Anyone see Talbot stop fighting with Callahan the other night and call for the trainer after Callahan's shoulder injury?  That looked like a real fight to me, and Talbot could've destroyed him while he went down to the ice.

    *I know, Burrows...scum.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from xdrive. Show xdrive's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to ProudBruinsfan's comment:

    When a player is down you usually stop throwing punches at him...I think his last 2 punches were cheap shots...Crombeen was already down ...but hey what do you expect from the Flyers ?



    DING!!! Crombeen was almost out cold and Rinaldo kept punching him, he is a clown

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

     

    How times have changed ?

    About a year ago Rinaldo's name was brought up as being a dirty player. I was questioned on that thought. And now the same comments about him are being repeated by those who questioned that thought. Priceless.

    Thanks for opening your eyes.............a year too late. 


     




    Who thought Rinaldo wasn't dirty? I do remember you telling someone that Rinaldo was known for being dangerous all the way back to junior but I honestly can't remember who you were talking to. If put on the spot, I would've guessed Shupe.

     



    That was for me.  At the time i didnt thunk his plays were that bad.  He had a few fights and semi questionable hits.  And yes it was about junior hockey up to pro level.  he likely has a file folder on the conversation as well.  Was i wrong about him.  Absolutely.  Do i think he did anything wrong in that fight. Absolutely not.  Two men squared off.  He lost.  BJ played the next game.  Zac wasnt suspended.  Did he cross the code or need to throw the extra shots?  Not sure, i wasnt in the middle of a fight.  I know my dad always told me to hit first and to hit hard.  Ive been in many hockey fights from the local junior and senior to my stint in the chl.  If you think everyone obeys this code you are gonna be in a hospital bed.  Ive seen just about everything you can imagine.  Its easy to sit in the armchair and say tisk tisk.  But when you are in the middle of a fight its not a composed romance like most of the skating clowns do.  Zac is a complete nut job. I wouldnt trust him.  BJ should do his homework, or not lose the fight.  If he was on the ice laid out and the refs were breaking it up id say he did something wrong.  

    I played against a guy who sharpened his visor and turned the screws out in his helmet.  I laughed my behind off when i heard that bc who thinks of stuff like that.  Straight outta slapshot.  A lot of these fighters start in the echl and chl.   

    Last bit on this.  Is it agaist the code for a fighter to go after a non fighter?   Bc if you believe this is true.  Our team have a lot of bullies.  

    I couldnt find te donald brashear video when the nhl was locked out.  He played in the quebec senior pro league.  If you dont know about this league it is absolutely violent.  Brashear Beat this guy so bad and continued to pound him when hes down.  It made my stomach turn.  I never liked brashear bc i would cross paths with him at the rink bc my team shared a gym with the fredericton canadians.   He was a real complete idiot.   I will see if i can fid the video. 

    Anyway.  To each his own.  Some think it was brutal.  Some dont.  I hope zac gets his.  I just dont think he did anything wrong in a fight where the object is to pound the other guy with your fist.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=49tdMI9OP0A

    this isnt the video.  But this is a veteran nhl clown.  Beating on guys bc he can. Im gonna try and find the video.  The code exists for those in the moment and can change just as quickly.  Everyone has a breaking pt. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    If you post from a phone, make sure you post the youtube direct link. Anything with an "m" in the URL can't be played on a computer.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    If you post from a phone, make sure you post the youtube direct link. Anything with an "m" in the URL can't be played on a computer.



    Ipad dude sorry.  This thing drives me bonkers.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    No worries. I just wanted to watch the video and it was like NOPE.

     

    That's why I will never get one :D

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    A hockey fight isn't a street fight. In boxing you'd get disqualified for tagging an opponent who was on the way down. Just my personal opinion, but I think the same standrad has to be followed in hockey.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to red75's comment:

    A hockey fight isn't a street fight. In boxing you'd get disqualified for tagging an opponent who was on the way down. Just my personal opinion, but I think the same standrad has to be followed in hockey.



    Seriously?  You are comparing boxing to a hockey fight.  Have you watched boxing?  And have you watched hockey in the 70s 80s.  I get that times are changing but any physical player has crossed the line in terms of the code.  

    how can they possibly do this unless they have the 2 fighters fight before the game in a ring.  

    The code doesnt control emotion.  It doesnt control the other guy.  It doesnt control the refs tying one guys arms.   The code that everyone uses loosely is broken routinely.  

    I mean for those that are against this incident, i ask, were you ok with the montreal brawl where 4 guys one being ST beat up a bunch of europeans.  does the code apply to fighting a guy with no fighting record.  

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I didnt like seing him laid out like that.  the guy is paid to run around and hit guys.  And ding ding.  To fight.  Its his job.  Hes not great at it.  Gotta win some or be replaced by someone who wins. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    My point shupe, was there's just as much emotion in a boxing match as in a hockey fight, but boxers can maintain control and not tag the guy on the way down. It's also far more dangerous to tag a guy on the way down in a hockey fight (lack of gloves and the ice is a hell of lot less forgiving than a ring). It's not perfect, and it will happen occassionally in hockey, but it shouldn't be condoned.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

     

     

     

    I mean for those that are against this incident, i ask, were you ok with the montreal brawl where 4 guys one being ST beat up a bunch of europeans.  does the code apply to fighting a guy with no fighting record.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Stop it shupe -- that's way off the rails.

    1. Who cares if they're 'European'?  Nobody is suggesting fights should be different based on ethnic background.

    2. It's just fine to win a fight.  You should be just as brutal and vicious as you want during the fight.  But after you win, stop .  Rinaldo was fine in winning the fight.  Don't pretend anyone is complaining about that.  We're talking about driving two more punches into the face of an unconscious man.  Win the fight, go to the box.  I thought Rinaldo should have stopped, that's all.  No big deal.

    3. Comparing that to the Montreal game is as silly as anything you've ever said here.  Spacek threw a punch at Boychuk, then he lost the fight.  Campbell was losing his fight against a very willing oppenent until he turned it around.  Montreal just bit off more than they could chew.  If you don't want to fight, don't fight.  Montreal tried to fight and lost.  Thornton didn't even hit Hamrlik.  Nothing dirty there.  Give me a break.  

    We're talking about punching an injured player who is already down, not a couple Montreal guys getting into fights that they lost.  You've gone from defending violence to sounding wimpy.  Montreal wimpy.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

     

     

    I mean for those that are against this incident, i ask, were you ok with the montreal brawl where 4 guys one being ST beat up a bunch of europeans.  does the code apply to fighting a guy with no fighting record.  



    Stop it shupe -- that's way off the rails.

    1. Who cares if they're 'European'?  Nobody is suggesting fights should be different based on ethnic background.

    2. It's just fine to win a fight.  You should be just as brutal and vicious as you want during the fight.  But after you win, stop .  Rinaldo was fine in winning the fight.  Don't pretend anyone is complaining about that.  We're talking about driving two more punches into the face of an unconscious man.  Win the fight, go to the box.  I thought Rinaldo should have stopped, that's all.  No big deal.

    3. Comparing that to the Montreal game is as silly as anything you've ever said here.  Spacek threw a punch at Boychuk, then he lost the fight.  Campbell was losing his fight against a very willing oppenent until he turned it around.  Montreal just bit off more than they could chew.  If you don't want to fight, don't fight.  Montreal tried to fight and lost.  Thornton didn't even hit Hamrlik.  Nothing dirty there.  Give me a break.  

    We're talking about punching an injured player who is already down, not a couple Montreal guys getting into fights that they lost.  You've gone from defending violence to sounding wimpy.  Montreal wimpy.

    [/QUOTE]

    Haha.  That's the worst kind of wimpy.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

     

     

    I mean for those that are against this incident, i ask, were you ok with the montreal brawl where 4 guys one being ST beat up a bunch of europeans.  does the code apply to fighting a guy with no fighting record.  



    Stop it shupe -- that's way off the rails.

    1. Who cares if they're 'European'?  Nobody is suggesting fights should be different based on ethnic background.

    2. It's just fine to win a fight.  You should be just as brutal and vicious as you want during the fight.  But after you win, stop .  Rinaldo was fine in winning the fight.  Don't pretend anyone is complaining about that.  We're talking about driving two more punches into the face of an unconscious man.  Win the fight, go to the box.  I thought Rinaldo should have stopped, that's all.  No big deal.

    3. Comparing that to the Montreal game is as silly as anything you've ever said here.  Spacek threw a punch at Boychuk, then he lost the fight.  Campbell was losing his fight against a very willing oppenent until he turned it around.  Montreal just bit off more than they could chew.  If you don't want to fight, don't fight.  Montreal tried to fight and lost.  Thornton didn't even hit Hamrlik.  Nothing dirty there.  Give me a break.  

    We're talking about punching an injured player who is already down, not a couple Montreal guys getting into fights that they lost.  You've gone from defending violence to sounding wimpy.  Montreal wimpy.

    [/QUOTE]

    It was a question on code.  ST pumped hammer i believe in that exchange.  People lauded how tough this team was.  Why is it silly.  Im asking interpretations on the code to see what people think.  People use the hockey code like they know what it is.  Every hard nosed player has crossed the line.  A lot of these fighters come through the minor leagues and are animals to get there.  

    1.  Fighting a non fighter.  Cmon.  ST is paid to fight.  Is hammer?   Why is that ok?   I asked a question. With no sarcasm.  Im actually curious as to what people think.  Everyone screams the code.  How is that stupid.  Is it as stupid an idea as having boxing rules?  No offense red.  If you count the fighting majors of the 4 guys on there not named moan how many would you get?  How about boston?  

    2.  I can agree with this.  

    3.  Montreal wanted to fight.  Or did they have a choice.  Look who was on the ice.  Montreal sent out plekanec and a bunch of little guys to line brawl bostons heavys.  Wow i watched a different game.  

    I had more respect for montreal in that exchange.  But again its seems fine when we are the guys bullying other teams.  But the code question never comes up.  

     name calling is getting funny on here.  I have been called out about no knowledge of hockey fights, ive been called stupid for asking a question.  good thing im good spirited and dont take this stuff serious or id be a mess.  

    Anyway, continue to throw personal insults on a hockey blog.  You may think you know a thing or two about hockey.  But ive watched and played a lot as well.  And these are just opinions.  Not personal attacks.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    What Rinaldo did was stupid, and hopefully he gets his soon. Talbot paid the price from Lecavalier for what a usless goon on his team did. I'm sure that got noticed on the Philly bench, but I'm not so sure they are smart enough to pick up on it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     name calling is getting funny on here.  I have been called out about no knowledge of hockey fights, ive been called stupid for asking a question.  good thing im good spirited and dont take this stuff serious or id be a mess.  

    Anyway, continue to throw personal insults on a hockey blog.  You may think you know a thing or two about hockey.  But ive watched and played a lot as well.  And these are just opinions.  Not personal attacks.  



    Name calling? Personal insults?  Whoa shupe, I was doing neither.  Just being a little over the top in response to your defense of Montreal losing fights.  A terrible analogy to begin with.  I don't know how you came away with respect for them after that exchange, but whatever.  To me, the code has little to do with people engaging in fights and then losing them.  I had no sympathy for Krejci losing to Pouliout for example.  Act like you want to fight and you might lose.  That's what happened to Montreal.  Having sympathy for the loser seems soft in that scenario to me.  It's not an attack on your character or knowledge.

    I have no sympathy for Crombeen losing the fight either.  It's just my preferencee that people restain themselves from driving punches into an unconscious man's face.  That's all.

    Cheers shupe.

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to red75's comment:

    My point shupe, was there's just as much emotion in a boxing match as in a hockey fight, but boxers can maintain control and not tag the guy on the way down.



    They are completely different, Red.  In reading this, I honeslty wonder if you've ever watched a boxing match.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [quote] 

    We're talking about punching an injured player who is already down, not a couple Montreal guys getting into fights that they lost.  You've gone from defending violence to sounding wimpy.  Montreal wimpy.

    [/QUOTE]

    Was Rinaldo aware that Crombeen was that hurt?  Did he think to himself, "Man, that dude is O-U-T!  I'm going to get a couple more in just because." 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    What do the linesmen normally do when one player falls to the ice ? They step in to break it up . Most fighters still standing stop punching . Fight over. One player is at a disadvantage and is at a greater chance of getting seriously hurt.

    This was not Rinaldo's first fight. Does he not know that ?

    There is still an aspect of respect that should be given to the opponent in a fight once he's been knocked to the ice due to a punch.

    ( As told by P. McGuire ) Marty St. Louis talked to Daniel Briere after the fight was over .  The Lightning had no problem with the fight. They did have a problem with Rinaldo hitting Crombeen while he was down though. 

    And rightfully so. Cheap !




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Was Rinaldo aware that Crombeen was that hurt?  Did he think to himself, "Man, that dude is O-U-T!  I'm going to get a couple more in just because." 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably more aware than anyone in the building.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     



    Was Rinaldo aware that Crombeen was that hurt?  Did he think to himself, "Man, that dude is O-U-T!  I'm going to get a couple more in just because." 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably more aware than anyone in the building.

    [/QUOTE]

    go watch his fights.  All of them.  He isnt a composed huggy type of fighter.  He has no idea what he is doing so he swings for he fences.  He fights scared to lose.  People think every fight is a romance of respected guys that are fully aware of what goes on.  I am only speaking personally but ive been in work related fights, hockey and street fights.  To say i can remember what went on exactly would be a lie.  Your brain shuts down some when in a fight and memory becomes blurry.  fighting is a scary event.  The fear of losing a fight can make the gentle person go mental. 

    anyway, were the extra shots needed?  I cant say bc i wasnt there.  I know how it looks but until you are in that mans skates who can say.  All i know is ive watched a lot of his fights since this thread and history shows this guy loses his marbles when he fights.  He isnt a composed guy that hugs and smooches when a fights over.  His pay cheque is on the line with everyfight.  He isnt there to score. Hes there to fight.  Everyone on here saw claude lemieux fight mccarty after the draper hit.  Mccarty said he never fought someone like.  Lemieux fought like a caged animal.  Not every fight is as composed as some of you think.  20000 people screaming and watching you.  But yet its like an episode of the bachelor.  I dont think so.  

    I agree with chowda on the respect aspect.  But someone who runs around like kaleta trying to hurt people really dont have much respect tp start with.  Hes exactly what chowda said he was.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    Yeah, I know what you mean about losing your head a little in a fight and not even really being sure what happened afterwards, and I think we're splitting hairs a little over a pretty fine point.  I'm not saying Rinaldo should be suspended or implying that this was some sort of travesty.  But if I were Crombeen's teammate I would be very angry about it.  In my opinion Rinaldo had a choice that even a reckless mindset could recognize.  He's been in a lot of fights.  When Crombeen crumbled in front of him after the first big punch connected, he could either pull back or keep trying to drill him on the way down.  He chose the latter, twice, and to me it was dirty.  The league should stay out of this, but I hope he sees Tampa a few more times this year.  As hypocritical as it sounds, I hope somebody hurts him since he seems willing and eager to play dirty and hurt others.  And at some point you have to wonder if it is part of the organizational philosophy in Philly.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    Yeah, I know what you mean about losing your head a little in a fight and not even really being sure what happened afterwards, and I think we're splitting hairs a little over a pretty fine point.  I'm not saying Rinaldo should be suspended or implying that this was some sort of travesty.  But if I were Crombeen's teammate I would be very angry about it.  In my opinion Rinaldo had a choice that even a reckless mindset could recognize.  He's been in a lot of fights.  When Crombeen crumbled in front of him after the first big punch connected, he could either pull back or keep trying to drill him on the way down.  He chose the latter, twice, and to me it was dirty.  The league should stay out of this, but I hope he sees Tampa a few more times this year.  As hypocritical as it sounds, I hope somebody hurts him since he seems willing and eager to play dirty and hurt others.  And at some point you have to wonder if it is part of the organizational philosophy in Philly.



    I concur.  He shouldnt even be in the nhl.  And i doubt he lasts long.  Players do remember that.  You can bet everyone he fights in the future wont let up.  

    cheers

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [quote] 

    We're talking about punching an injured player who is already down, not a couple Montreal guys getting into fights that they lost.  You've gone from defending violence to sounding wimpy.  Montreal wimpy.



    Was Rinaldo aware that Crombeen was that hurt?  Did he think to himself, "Man, that dude is O-U-T!  I'm going to get a couple more in just because." 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sure he was aware,  he knew his knees buckled, but continued to pound because of what Crombeem did the previous game between the two teams. I assume that was his way of sending a message, but for the the only message he sent was that he is a neanderthal who doesn't belong in the NHL..

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to red75's comment:

    My point shupe, was there's just as much emotion in a boxing match as in a hockey fight, but boxers can maintain control and not tag the guy on the way down. It's also far more dangerous to tag a guy on the way down in a hockey fight (lack of gloves and the ice is a hell of lot less forgiving than a ring). It's not perfect, and it will happen occassionally in hockey, but it shouldn't be condoned.



    Completely agree and when a boxer nails another fighter when they are down or on a knee it's either points taken away or disqaulification. Don't have to be an avid fight to know it either.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Is Zac Rinaldo about to become Matt Cooke or is he already ?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to red75's comment:

    My point shupe, was there's just as much emotion in a boxing match as in a hockey fight, but boxers can maintain control and not tag the guy on the way down. It's also far more dangerous to tag a guy on the way down in a hockey fight (lack of gloves and the ice is a hell of lot less forgiving than a ring). It's not perfect, and it will happen occassionally in hockey, but it shouldn't be condoned.




     

    Completely agree and when a boxer nails another fighter when they are down or on a knee it's either points taken away or disqaulification. Don't have to be an avid fight to know it either.



    I agree as well.  Maybe they can take wins away from teams In cases as severe as this one.  If someone bites an ear off the team has to do mighty ducks 3 movie.  Burrows?  Grobovski?  Starring roles.  

     
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