Jim Schoenfeld said.......

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    Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    ........have another donut not another beer. 

    A 67 year old with a drinking and driving problem. Not good.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/13/former-nhl-ref-charged-with-impaired-driving
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    He's a fat pig.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Schonefield was probably right on the money, but this case could happen to a number of sports figures both retired and active. It's a disease folks.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Remember the refs they pulled out of the stands?  Every call was matching.  Such a weird series.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Wasnt he talking to Koharski? What does Newall have to do with this?
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    Schonefield was probably right on the money, but this case could happen to a number of sports figures both retired and active. It's a disease folks.
    Posted by bogie6


    Yes, alcoholism is an illness. Treatments for this illness are available. Saying that it could happen to other retired or active people is condoning this action.

    Bad decision and stupid on his part. Call a cab and stop living in the past when these types of things were overlooked.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said....... : Yes, alcoholism is an illness. Treatments for this illness are available. Saying that it could happen to other retired or active people is condoning this action. Bad decision and stupid on his part. Call a cab and stop living in the past when these types of things were overlooked.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-


    Was it a bad decision? Yes. Should he have taken a cab home. Certainly.

    But saying this could happen to other people is simply being realistic. Alcoholism *is* a disease. Some people have cardiovascular disease, but they don't realize it until they have a heart attack. Some people are alcoholics (some in denial) and don't realize it until they get a wakeup call like a DWI-related accident. Thank goodness no one was hurt or killed.

    What bogie said was *not* condoning DWI. If bogie were to say a heart attack could happen to anyone, would you say he's condoning heart attacks?
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said....... : Was it a bad decision? Yes. Should he have taken a cab home. Certainly. But saying this could happen to other people is simply being realistic. Alcoholism *is* a disease. Some people have cardiovascular disease, but they don't realize it until they have a heart attack. Some people are alcoholics (some in denial) and don't realize it until they get a wakeup call like a DWI-related accident. Thank goodness no one was hurt or killed. What bogie said was *not* condoning DWI. If bogie were to say a heart attack could happen to anyone, would you say he's condoning heart attacks?
    Posted by felixwas

     

    Was there a need to say this at all ? It's a given it could happen to anyone........if that person makes the dumb decision of getting behind the wheel. 

    Alcoholism is the illness. Getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated is not. 

    He got drunk ? So what. To each his own. He likes his booze. But the moment he started driving drunk that's when "it could happen to anyone" gets thrown out the door. He made the decision. Not all alcoholics make the same decisions he did of DWI.

     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Have to agree with Chowdah here.  I have alcoholism in my family and I understand it's a disease.  

    But driving while drunk is not part of the disease.  It is a choice.  A stupid, careless, and extremely dangerous choice, that puts others in direct danger from your drinking problem.

    Hope he gets help, hope he recovers, but today he's an idiot.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Awesome sensationalism on the part of the Sun.  Initially, I pictured his car windshield deep into the reading room. 

    SUDBURY, ONT. - Former NHL referee Dave Newell is facing impaired driving charges after police say he crashed his car into the library in his hometown of Copper Cliff, Ont., on Sunday evening.

    According to police, Newell, who was inducted into the Sudbury Sports Hall of Fame in 2006, was driving a white Dodge Caravan when he swerved over the curb and hit a handrail at the library.

     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    Have to agree with Chowdah here.  I have alcoholism in my family and I understand it's a disease.   But driving while drunk is not part of the disease.  It is a choice.  A stupid, careless, and extremely dangerous choice, that puts others in direct danger from your drinking problem. Hope he gets help, hope he recovers, but today he's an idiot.
    Posted by Fletcher1



    Not necessarily a function of alcholism or a drinking problem either.  Stupid, careless yes.  An idiot, yup, but unfortunately, these choices are not just the domain of problem drinkers.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said....... : Not necessarily a function of alcholism or a drinking problem either.  Stupid, careless yes.  An idiot, yup, but unfortunately, these choices are not just the domain of problem drinkers.
    Posted by stevegm


    Thats what I'm thinking? Where does it say he is an alcoholic? He's an idiot for doing what he did but from what I read I didnt see enough to come to the conclusuion that he suffers from the disease of alcoholism. Could be the result of bad decision making.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    He had too much to drink and drove home.  Lady luck wasn't with him.  I have driven hammered.  Not saying it as a boast, but it's true.  I am not an alcoholic.

    Most people who drink have been behind the wheel at least once when they were over the limit.

    Most people aren't alcoholics, unless you use the super broad generalizatons like "do you drink to get drunk?" or "have you had more than six alcoholic beverages in one evening"?  If that's the case, at some point in time, almost all of us have been alcoholics.

    In fact, I'm going out tonight.  I'll probably be an alcoholic when I get home.  I am not driving, however, so the hand rails in town are safe.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    He had too much to drink and drove home.  Lady luck wasn't with him.  I have driven hammered.  Not saying it as a boast, but it's true.  I am not an alcoholic. Most people who drink have been behind the wheel at least once when they were over the limit. Most people aren't alcoholics, unless you use the super broad generalizatons like "do you drink to get drunk?" or "have you had more than six alcoholic beverages in one evening"?  If that's the case, at some point in time, almost all of us have been alcoholics. In fact, I'm going out tonight.  I'll probably be an alcoholic when I get home.  I am not driving, however, so the hand rails in town are safe.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    I've done it too, but that doesn't make it one iota better.  And the first thought in my mind when I crash into the town library...'what an idiot I am'.

    However, I do agree that this story alone doesn't tell us anything about a drinking problem.  I absolutely cannot get through a wedding reception without drinking.  I'd leave if I couldn't.  Still don't think I have an addiction.

     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    You can be dumb as dirt without being an alcoholic - main reason I always walk to the pub when i'm going out. Takes away the choice of me doing something that stupid.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    Wasnt he talking to Koharski? What does Newall have to do with this?
    Posted by kelvana33


    You're right, kel.  The doughnut/fat pig reference years ago was from Schoenfeld to Don Kokarski and not Newell.
    http://youtu.be/XXpcb5aTnPk
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Yup it was Don Koharski without a doubt.  One of the best lines ever in hockey.  Alcoholism is my family like many others, as an any extended family the disease does not include killing someone deliberately or accidentally as we speak of those dangers.  Walk don't drive. Don't shoot, think.  
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    Chowdah, I respectfully disagree. I think it's possible for people to be alcoholics without realizing it—or, at the very least, without realizing the extent of their drinking problem. Getting behind the wheel while drunk is a stupid decision—but somebody who is in denial about his drinking problem might not realize just how stupid a decision it is.



     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    Awesome sensationalism on the part of the Sun.  Initially, I pictured his car windshield deep into the reading room.  SUDBURY, ONT. -  Former NHL referee Dave Newell is facing impaired driving charges after police say he crashed his car into the library in his hometown of Copper Cliff, Ont., on Sunday evening. According to police, Newell, who was inducted into the Sudbury Sports Hall of Fame in 2006, was driving a white Dodge Caravan when he swerved over the curb and hit a handrail at the library.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    NAS, despite the serious nature of this incident and this thread, I've gotta say that's a great line about the reading room.


     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    "Yup it was Don Koharski without a doubt.  One of the best lines ever in hockey"

    Calling someone a "fat pig" and to "have another donut" is a great line in hockey? Sorry, I think it's garbage. I love that the refs refused to go on the ice when he first got away with it.

    I went to a referee clinic in St Louis many years ago and Koharski was one of the NHL instructors. I asked him if JS was on his Christmas card list.  He said that no one knows this, but JS called him and apologized like a man for embarrassing him and causing public grief for his family. He said no one told him to call and it wasnt done due to league pressure or anything else. Certainly wasn't in the paper.  Koharski  said he accepted the apology and respected Schoenfeld for how he handled it.
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    "Getting behind the wheel while drunk is a stupid decision—but somebody who is in denial about his drinking problem might not realize just how stupid a decision it is."

    Sorry, not acceptable.  People can call alcoholism a disease all they like, but thats not the point. An impaired driver doesnt have to acknowledge his drinking problem to know that today, as drunk as he is, he cant drive a car.

    Choosing... that what adults do... to drive a car while drunk has nothing to do with having this disease.  People who rarely drink that could never be accused of having a drinking problem would still be expected to choose not to kill someone in a car while drunk, disease present or not.

    Pedophiles are commonly known to be "in denial" of their "problem."  So... not their fault when they act out? Not enough of a disease?
     
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    Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......

    In Response to Re: Jim Schoenfeld said.......:
    "Getting behind the wheel while drunk is a stupid decision— but somebody who is in denial about his drinking problem might not realize just how stupid a decision it is." Sorry, not acceptable.  People can call alcoholism a disease all they like, but thats not the point. An impaired driver doesnt have to acknowledge his drinking problem to know that today, as drunk as he is, he cant drive a car. Choosing... that what adults do... to drive a car while drunk has nothing to do with having this disease.  People who rarely drink that could never be accused of having a drinking problem would still be expected to choose not to kill someone in a car while drunk, disease present or not. Pedophiles are commonly known to be "in denial" of their "problem."  So... not their fault when they act out? Not enough of a disease?
    Posted by SoxFanInIL


    SoxFan, thank you for reading my previous comment and for taking the time to thoughtfully reply. We simply have different perspectives on alcoholism and its symptoms. I'll maintain that plenty of people who drink—but not everyone who drinks—think "I can handle my liquor" or "I can quit anytime I want to," when they really can't, and that such denials are, in fact, signs of alcoholism and that such denials lead to bad decisions.

    If I'm reading you right, you say it's a matter of choice; I say alcoholism leads to making *bad* choices. Folks like you and me, who are not alcoholics, know that when we're away from home and have had one too many, we should call a cab or have someone else drive us home, etc. We can logically think things through because we don't have that attitude that "I can handle my liquor."

    To put it another way, alcoholics (and pedophiles, for that matter) don't think in straight lines. They live in different worlds than we do. You and I can make intelligent decisions; you and I realize there are consequences for bad decisions; you and I realize we live in a world where what we say and do affects other people. Alcoholics and pedophiles and junkies are wired differently. I don't think anyone *decides* to become a pedophile, junkie, alcoholic, etc.

    I'll leave it to you to consider the matter of whether everyone has made at least one bad decision, maybe more, in life. My thoughts are that not everyone is capable of making good decisions. I'm not nearly educated enough to back that feeling up with evidence (which is ironic, given that I was all over NAS the other day, asking him for evidence of his claims). But I will give you an example from my personal life: I have been clinically diagnosed as obsessive-compulsive. It doesn't affect other people, but there are times when I find myself checking to make sure I've locked the house door, *even though I know I've locked it.* I live with five dogs and a cat, and I am continually counting them to make sure they're all there, even though there is noplace for them to go. These are decisions beyond my control; they are, in fact, illogical. So from that point of view, it's not that much of a leap for me to surmise that some people make bad decisions because of the way they are wired.

    I know I've rambled on here, and if you've made it this far, thank you for your patience. I know this is supposed to be a hockey forum, but matters like this are, in my opinion, important enough to be discussed anywhere.



     
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