Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Playing with cracked ribs for an entire series (Joe 2004) was either selfish(Joe's decision) or a terrible coaching move(Sullivan's decision). He was a liability for his team and should have been taken out after the first couple of games.

    Playing with cracked ribs, torn cartilige and separated shoulder(Patrice 2013) in an elimination game of the Stanley Cup Finals was heroic and to be commended. Bergeron contributed well abeit in a losing cause.

    The two players are very different, indeed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to Davinator's comment:

    Playing with cracked ribs for an entire series (Joe 2004) was either selfish(Joe's decision) or a terrible coaching move(Sullivan's decision). He was a liability for his team and should have been taken out after the first couple of games.

    Playing with cracked ribs, torn cartilige and separated shoulder(Patrice 2013) in an elimination game of the Stanley Cup Finals was heroic and to be commended. Bergeron contributed well abeit in a losing cause.

    The two players are very different, indeed.




    How in the world can you say Thornton was selfish and/or blame Sullivan. Gee, I mean the guy was considered the team's BEST PLAYER back then. You didn't want him to play? But it's different for Bergeron because even though he gave the B's nothing in game 5/6 due to injury, it's somehow more heroic? What kind of sophomoric comparison is that? Unbelievable. You're an idiot.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to SoxFanInIL's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

     

    stinkman, i'm not comparing them as players or people, I'm saying that Thornton was a great player, who got badly injured and did what he could for his team, and a decade later Patrice gets all the love in the world, and Joe still gets chastised. It's wrong. You guys don't get it, you have selective memory. I mean did Patrice do anything in the last 2 games besides be hurt? Yeah, I said it.

     




    Companring Joe Thornton to Bergeron is beyond ridiculous.

     

    Far beyond THornton's failures in the playoffs in Boston, he did a disappearing act at playoff time in SJ the few few years as well. He was barely one-way and ineffective in a B's uniform. He was traded the day after completely blowing his coverage in a loss to NJ the night before.  That's why they dumped him, not because of one playoff in one series.

    The most important single transaction that resulted in the turnaround of this franchise and directly resulted in the Bruins 2011 Stanley Cup was the dumping of Thornton and the direct use of those dollars for Zdeno Chara.

    Boston - Joe = Chara.

    And Jumbo has continued to yap about Boston since he left... how about his commentary about the Bruins always getting preference from the league? (was that re: the Chara hit on Patches?)

    Bruins - Joe = improvement.

    Tortarelli was right about him.




    another sophomoric statement, he was traded because he blew his coverage on an overtime GW goal. That would be the first time in NHL history a guy was traded for making a mistake. Maybe we should have traded Chara after he got burned on the Chi goal. Or traded Rask after the Rangers gaffe. Unbelievable. Fans just ate up all that anti-Joe sentiment. Maybe he became anti-Boston after fans called him every name in the book and blamed him for the 03-04 choke v. Montreal. Maybe he didn't like that his own owners and GM "questioned" his performance despite broken ribs, and didn't come to their No.  1 player's defense? You idiots ever think about that? Nope.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to MeanE's comment:

    who gives a rats behind about joe Thornton? The bruins would still be in a Stanley cup drought if he was never traded.  last I checked he doesn't have his name on the cup.  He was a cancer in the bruins locker room, got sully fired, and I loved the trade at the time and still love it today!

    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.



    Can you elaborate on that one, because I think your lying just like you are when you say you loved the fact that they traded Joe Thornton for Sturm/Stuart/Primeau.

    Say what you want about Thornton but O'Connell botched that one big time.

    Yes, Thorntons money helped them with Chara and Savard. But the franchise started to climb back to respectabiltiy when Julien was named coach.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    kelvana, absolutely, they got Chiarelli, who I'm sure helped with the Chara signing from afar (not officially B GM at that point), and he hired Julien. From that point on, the B's became a system hockey team and much like the Red Sox had a GM/Coach working hand and hand like Francona with the wonderkid Epstein now with...the Cubs!...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to dannycater's comment:

     

    kelvana, absolutely, they got Chiarelli, who I'm sure helped with the Chara signing from afar (not officially B GM at that point), and he hired Julien. From that point on, the B's became a system hockey team and much like the Red Sox had a GM/Coach working hand and hand like Francona with the wonderkid Epstein now with...the Cubs!...

     




    Lets not forget with Chara and Savard, it was a mess under Dave Lewis, who Chiarelli had to fire after one year.

     

    Also, I know Thornton was traded after he lost the face-off to Madden in New Jersey, but Harry said on the radio after that O'Connell approached him during the off-season about trading Thornton. Harry told him there was no way he could come back from the lock out without Thornton.

    I love the Bergeron is a hero for playing hurt and Thornton is a zero for doing the same thing. If the uniform colors were reveresed right now so would the names. Typical uneducated pink hat.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrynewyork. Show jerrynewyork's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Joe never had the opportunity to help the B's in his prime, Bergeron has gotten that opportunity. But I love Patrice and would not trade him for anyone (okay, maybe Malkin, just kidding).




    how many times are you going to say how much you "love" Patrice Bergeron ?

    as   far as Joe Thornton goes ,until he wins a Stanley Cup.................................

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    What is ironic is the rookie Bergeron played with Thornton, so if anyone knows what Joe went through, he did. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in the back of his mind as to do what you can to help your team even if it kills you physically.




    Dannyboy, stop it with this Joe Thornton trash.

    Your reasoning is very flawed. Read the following very carefully:

    1. It is a coincidence that both Bergeron and Thornton played a playoff series hurt.

    2. The irony is Bergeron won a Stanley Cup, Thornton did not.

    3. When it comes to doing what it takes to make your team win, when it counts the most, and doing the little things that bind a team, Thornton is vastly inferior to Bergeron.

    Joe Thornton did nothing in Boston but cash cheques. He was really good: good for nothing. Let him rot in San Jose.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Patrice Bergeron  57 points in 83 playoff games for the Bruins and  Stanley Cup.

    Joe Thornton 18 points in 35 playoff games for the Bruins... he did win a playoff series though.

    Wonder why one get so much love and another not-so-much?

    GO BRUINS!!!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to kelvana33's comment:


    Can you elaborate on that one, because I think your lying just like you are when you say you loved the fact that they traded Joe Thornton for Sturm/Stuart/Primeau.

     

    Say what you want about Thornton but O'Connell botched that one big time.

    Yes, Thorntons money helped them with Chara and Savard. But the franchise started to climb back to respectabiltiy when Julien was named coach.

    [/QUOTE]

    I can elaborate.  As I have said before, I worked PBruins during this time & had inside information.  Sully was our coach in Providence and is a man of great character and a great coach.  Joe was the captain of the team and undermined him every step of the way.  I wish I could pull up the email that I wrote to OC praising him on getting rid of Jumbo Joe, when the vast majority were ripping him that day and still do.  It was no secret that during his time with the Bruins, Joe was not a hard worker.  Especially in the off season.  He enjoyed going home and drinking with his family and friends.  He never put in the work that would have made him an absolute beast of all beasts in the NHL.  A bit similar to Roger Clemons.  Had he stayed with the Sox, he would have never had the motivation to prove people wrong.  There is no question that Joe is an extremely talented player.  However, he is not even remotely in the class of Patrice Bergeron.  Bergeron's heart & desire, along with his talent, has allowed for him to be one of the most decorated hockey players ever!  Everywhere this kid has played he has won. (Memorial Cup, World Jr., World, Olympic, Stanley)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Again how many players can speak of being a Patrice Bergeron in work ethic? This is not the point. The point is that Thornton did sacrifice greatly in 03-04 and he was crucified because the end results were zero for a team that was very talented. My point is injuries to star players lead to one thing--not much from that player. Bergeron might have been inspirational in Game 6, or maybe he wasn't? He played 17 minutes and he didn't do a whole helluva a lot. He was very injured, he should have been in the hospital, so should have Thornton in '04. You single out Thornton as this cancer, but you weren't working B's games during the 03-04 season in particular. 1125 games, 1118 points, in a day and age where guys are considered good for potting 60 points in an 82-game reg. season, Joe averages a point a game in his NHL career.


    In 00-01, Thornton scored 71 points in 72 games, 37 goals, and 19 on the power play...19...that's a cancer huh? In '02-03, 101 points in 77 games, '05-06, the year he was traded 125 points....you don't want that on your roster? He was thrown under the bus for '04, he was exploited and ESPN showed the highlight 7,000 times of the faceoff and OT goal in his final B game..Perfect Timing to trade him is how the B's and O'Connell saw it. He wasn't hired to be a 2-way player, he was brought in to be a top playmaker, and he was terrific on the PP, and he was as good as a passer as they've had in the past 25 years rating right behind Savard and Oates, two of the best B's passers I've ever seen.

    This isn't supposed to be a Bergeron v. Thornton debate, it's really a litmus test as to see how many people forget how different it was for the NHL's best reg. season team in 03-04 and the fact it choked a 3-1 games lead with Sullivan coaching and Gonchar and Nylander brought in as hired guns to add to a great group and the NHL's best rookie goalie Raycroft--they had to find a scapegoat--fans, media, and back then sadly the organization--so it was Jumbo Joe, a guy who was high-priced, but earning his pay as an elite NHL all-star, and the fact that he had broken ribs and PLAYED with them v. Montreal. That's considered weak and what  Patrice did is heroic, and I don't buy that. They were both doing the same thing for their respective teams--being leaders. You can sit there and try to paint Joe out to what you want based on his post-Boston days, but he deserved a hell of a lot better from guys like KPD, his GM who certainly had a directive to trade him after the lockout, and the fans who still hate him.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Marc Savard I might add was also considered selfish and a 1-way player prior to becoming a Bruin. He was always a top assists guy (like Joe). He learned under the Julien system and he became a better all-around player. Joe would have learned a lot from a Julien.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    I'm not gonna touch the comparison to Bergeron, because it seems like a stretch on a few levels...

    ..but, I agree with the OP about Thornton not being appreciated and being a scapegoat here.  I liked Thornton and I still like Thornton.  I don't necessary have regrets with trading him (although I think they could've gotten much more in return), but it is so typical in Boston to run guys down after they get rid of them, and pretend they stunk to feel better about it.  Thornton was very good and only getting better.  I think Julien would have been a great coach for him and Chara would have had an influence too.  I'll never understand the bitterness fans have towards this guy.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Dmitri Khristich was the star player that I couldn't stand.  Zero effort in the playoffs.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Broken Ribs vs. Torn Cartilage & Broken Ribs & torn muscle in the same area are not the same! I have played football with broken ribs.  Most people can not even walk with torn rib cartilage and have a hard time breathing.  You Love Jumbo Joe.  I don't.  Get over it!  Joe played a huge part in his being traded.  He is better off playing in a city like San Jose anyway.  You questioning whether or not Bergeon was inspirational is idiotic!  Listen to his teammates, they are the one's that WERE inspired by him.  It doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else perceives.  They flat out said so!  Unless you think that the team is full of liars, please don't question it.  You can provide whatever numbers you would like regarding Joe Thornton, there is not one of them that can show his heart!  It was not working in Boston, it was the right move for the team and for Joe.  Should the Bruins have gotten more in return, most likely.  My contention all along has been that trading Thornton & Nomar were the best things that the Bruins & Red Sox did, which lead to both teams winning their respective championships!  Cancers Removed = Duck Boats!

    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:

    Patrice Bergeron  57 points in 83 playoff games for the Bruins and  Stanley Cup.

    Joe Thornton 18 points in 35 playoff games for the Bruins... he did win a playoff series though.

    Wonder why one get so much love and another not-so-much?




    That has allot to do with coaching and teammates around JT. Danny is right about Thornton not getting any love from the Boston Media in comparison to what Bergeron got.

    I'd rather have Bergeron on my team for the playoffs but Thornton is no slouch and he does play hurt.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    I think JT was a scapgoat. They weren't at all happy with the money they had to pay him & once they signed him to that huge deal the plan was to get rid of him. KPD was a total jerk to Joe. I do think that JT wasn't Captain material though. Back then he was just too laid back, didn't seem to have the leadership quality. He's much better now, but he shown some hostility towards Boston & I can't say I blame him. In 04' he was totally ineffective & having busted ribs certainly had a lot to do with that, but the issue in that series was that Theodore & Raycroft switched roles. With the exception of gm 7. Andrew fell apart for games 5 & 6. Allowing 10 goals. 

    "Why is a puck called a puck? Because Dirty little bastar d was taken!"- Marty Brodeur

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to MeanE's comment:

    Broken Ribs vs. Torn Cartilage & Broken Ribs & torn muscle in the same area are not the same! I have played football with broken ribs.  Most people can not even walk with torn rib cartilage and have a hard time breathing.  You Love Jumbo Joe.  I don't.  Get over it!  Joe played a huge part in his being traded.  He is better off playing in a city like San Jose anyway.  You questioning whether or not Bergeon was inspirational is idiotic!  Listen to his teammates, they are the one's that WERE inspired by him.  It doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else perceives.  They flat out said so!  Unless you think that the team is full of liars, please don't question it.  You can provide whatever numbers you would like regarding Joe Thornton, there is not one of them that can show his heart!  It was not working in Boston, it was the right move for the team and for Joe.  Should the Bruins have gotten more in return, most likely.  My contention all along has been that trading Thornton & Nomar were the best things that the Bruins & Red Sox did, which lead to both teams winning their respective championships!  Cancers Removed = Duck Boats!

    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.



    I love the long aggressive email full of exclamation points and hyperbole that says "Get over it!"  I think that might be the pot calling the kettle black...just saying...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:

     

    Patrice Bergeron  57 points in 83 playoff games for the Bruins and  Stanley Cup.

    Joe Thornton 18 points in 35 playoff games for the Bruins... he did win a playoff series though.

    Wonder why one get so much love and another not-so-much?




     

    That has allot to do with coaching and teammates around JT. Danny is right about Thornton not getting any love from the Boston Media in comparison to what Bergeron got.

    I'd rather have Bergeron on my team for the playoffs but Thornton is no slouch and he does play hurt.



    This seems like a perfectly reasoned response to me.  No reason to hate either guy.  Thornton is no "cancer" but at the same time, I would perfer Bergeron.

    Boston fans/media are notorious for holding one guy up as a God, and tearing the last guy down as a cancer.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     



    I love the long aggressive email full of exclamation points and hyperbole that says "Get over it!"  I think that might be the pot calling the kettle black...just saying...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    First of all it is not an email.  Second of all, Aggressive? Becasue I use exclamation points? Too funny.  I am responding to a post.  Where is the hyperbole Fletch?  

    just saying - a phrase used to indicate that we refuse to defend a claim we've made---in other words, that we refuse to offer reasons that what we've said is true

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to MeanE's comment:

     

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     



    I love the long aggressive email full of exclamation points and hyperbole that says "Get over it!"  I think that might be the pot calling the kettle black...just saying...

     

     

     

     



    First of all it is not an email.  Second of all, Aggressive? Becasue I use exclamation points? Too funny.  I am responding to a post.  Where is the hyperbole Fletch?  

     

    just saying - a phrase used to indicate that we refuse to defend a claim we've made---in other words, that we refuse to offer reasons that what we've said is true

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry. email?...don't know where my mind is.  At work I guess.  Post, I meant

    Aggressive, and hyperbole to me, are things like calling danny "idiotic" saying "loves" Thornton, calling Thornton a "cancer" etc.  and yes, using exclamation points throughout is hyperbole too.  Like suppose if this was spoken, the whole thing would be shouted out.

    Just seemed like a bit of a tirade and it struck me funny when you said "get over it!"

    I don't like "just saying" either to be honest.  I guess I 'just said it'.  I don't know what it means, except that it is maybe and tool to avoid further typing...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

     

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:

     

     

     

    Patrice Bergeron  57 points in 83 playoff games for the Bruins and  Stanley Cup.

    Joe Thornton 18 points in 35 playoff games for the Bruins... he did win a playoff series though.

    Wonder why one get so much love and another not-so-much?

     




     

     

    That has allot to do with coaching and teammates around JT. Danny is right about Thornton not getting any love from the Boston Media in comparison to what Bergeron got.

    I'd rather have Bergeron on my team for the playoffs but Thornton is no slouch and he does play hurt.

     




    Nice guy athletes don't become legends... those with hardware and results do. Hence my input.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

    Sorry. email?...don't know where my mind is.  At work I guess.  Post, I meant

    Aggressive, and hyperbole to me, are things like calling danny "idiotic" saying "loves" Thornton, calling Thornton a "cancer" etc.  and yes, using exclamation points throughout is hyperbole too.  Like suppose if this was spoken, the whole thing would be shouted out.

    Just seemed like a bit of a tirade and it stuck me funny when you said "get over it!"

    I don't like "just saying" either to be honest.  I guess I 'just said it'.  I don't know what it means, except that it is maybe and tool to avoid further typing...



    Fletch - I called Danny Idiotic only after he called posteres on here idiotic, I usually don't name call unless provoked.  I know, i know, two wrongs don't make a right.  He doesn't love Joe?  Calling Thornton a "cancer" in the room was a personal experience that I chose to pass along after working in the organization.  I didn't label Joe a cancer, those that had interactions on a daily basis inside the room labeled him that.  I wasn't shouting, I would have TYPED IN ALL CAPS IF I WAS. LOL  which I don't really get how that is shouting either. I said get over it, because Joe has been gone for almost a decade.  I didn't like his game as a Bruin and I don't like his game as a Shark.  I feel that he is an underachiever and that any comparison to Bergeron, who might be an overachiever, is ludacris.  Guess what, almost all hockey players are tough as nails, including Joe.  He wasn't liked as much as Bergeron, he didn't win a Stanley Cup with the Bruins, so he didn't get the benefit of the doubt. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    Why are we talking about Joe Thornton?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton, 2004 Playoffs

    In response to lambda13's comment:

     

    Why are we talking about Joe Thornton?

     




    Beats me. What a waste of time.

    I don't care if he got no love. He got what he deserved. End of story.

     

     

     
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