Joe Thornton

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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : Is asking yourself questions and then answering them an awful way to offer a point of view?  Yes.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Is this a good way to shy away fromt he fact you just lost an argument...Nope.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    I wish people wouldnt quote NAS.  I have the guy on "ignore" because I dont want to read his idiotic, hypocritical, asinine posts.

    Its easy for everyone here to take shots at Thornton for the dive, but it doesnt change the fact that there are Bruins (even the Captain) who do it too.  I was just having this discussion on a hunting forum today actually.  Here is my response:

    "Its too bad the league doesnt crack down on it like they said they were going to a few years ago when they instituted the diving rule because of the Bruins/Habs series in the playoffs when the Habs made a mockery of the game. What I really dont understand is, its got to be coming from the top down, because players are making the refs look stupid.

    I dont blame Thornton for the dive. It seems like its the only way theyll call a penalty sometimes. Same with the Bruins: They are such a big, physical team that theyll get called non-stop for BS stuff, but nothing will be called for them unless they embellish it. The league has GOT to put a stop to it."
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]I wish people wouldnt quote NAS.  I have the guy on "ignore" because I dont want to read his idiotic, hypocritical, asinine posts. Its easy for everyone here to take shots at Thornton for the dive, but it doesnt change the fact that there are Bruins (even the Captain) who do it too.  I was just having this discussion on a hunting forum today actually.  Here is my response: "Its too bad the league doesnt crack down on it like they said they were going to a few years ago when they instituted the diving rule because of the Bruins/Habs series in the playoffs when the Habs made a mockery of the game. What I really dont understand is, its got to be coming from the top down, because players are making the refs look stupid. I dont blame Thornton for the dive. It seems like its the only way theyll call a penalty sometimes. Same with the Bruins: They are such a big, physical team that theyll get called non-stop for BS stuff, but nothing will be called for them unless they embellish it. The league has GOT to put a stop to it."
    Posted by bigvig[/QUOTE]

    Couldn't agree more, it's really come to a head in these playoffs, and I can't blame the players.This should be on the agenda for the next owners or g.m meetings. I would like to see an automatic double minor for unsportsmanlike and a 1 game suspension for 3rd time offenders. But to call a player a diver for one incident is assanine, the other day NAS blamed McQuaid for forcing the other d-men to play more minutes because he sprained his neck trying to hit Richards. With that logic,or lack there of you might as well blame Bergeron for being concussed. Hey, 2 concussions, he should have his head up.Stupid Bergie...
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    Yup to all the diving stuff.

    Yup to the NAS stuff. Ive had him on ignore for a LONG time because he is so ridiculous.  He is the best troll here.
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : Is this a good way to shy away fromt he fact you just lost an argument...Nope.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Not really, Kel.

    A player who fights in a hockey game isn't a fighter, and is also often carries a badge of honor (see:  Bergeron vs. Gorges).  A player who goes the soccer, wimpy, cheat, fake, lowlife route of taking a dive (see Thornton here) carries a badge of disgrace.  That player decides that he's going to be a fraud in order to sway the game.  It's cheap, it's pathetic, and I hate it.

    Here we see Joe Thornton taking that route.  It's disgraceful, he should be embarrassed by his own actions and for that I label him a diver.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]I wish people wouldnt quote NAS.  I have the guy on "ignore" because I dont want to read his idiotic, hypocritical, asinine posts. Its easy for everyone here to take shots at Thornton for the dive, but it doesnt change the fact that there are Bruins (even the Captain) who do it too.  I was just having this discussion on a hunting forum today actually.  Here is my response: "Its too bad the league doesnt crack down on it like they said they were going to a few years ago when they instituted the diving rule because of the Bruins/Habs series in the playoffs when the Habs made a mockery of the game. What I really dont understand is, its got to be coming from the top down, because players are making the refs look stupid. I dont blame Thornton for the dive. It seems like its the only way theyll call a penalty sometimes. Same with the Bruins: They are such a big, physical team that theyll get called non-stop for BS stuff, but nothing will be called for them unless they embellish it. The league has GOT to put a stop to it."
    Posted by bigvig[/QUOTE]

    I completely agree on all points.  Everyone should have me on ignore.

    More importantly, the league wide diving is a joke and the refs refusal to call it without the matching penalty is even worse.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : Couldn't agree more, it's really come to a head in these playoffs, and I can't blame the players.This should be on the agenda for the next owners or g.m meetings. I would like to see an automatic double minor for unsportsmanlike and a 1 game suspension for 3rd time offenders. But to call a player a diver for one incident is assanine, the other day NAS blamed McQuaid for forcing the other d-men to play more minutes because he sprained his neck trying to hit Richards. With that logic,or lack there of you might as well blame Bergeron for being concussed. Hey, 2 concussions, he should have his head up.Stupid Bergie...
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Pick your subject.  If you want to discuss McQuaid and his ridiculous missed check, start a new thread or return to the thread you're partly quoting.


     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    JT is in the box laughing because he got busted.  Laughing.  Really JT?  The most embarassing penalty a hockey player can take and you're laughing?  I don't like it when Marchand does it, and although I'm not convinced that Chara "dove" on the one incident I remember where some announcer said he embellished just because he went down, I hate it whenever any player does it.  And I don't give a flying ____ if that's the only way to get a call.  I particularly don't agree that the responsibility comes from on high.  BS.  Is murder only wrong because there's a law against it?  One that, outside of Detroit, they usually enforce? 

    I can live with players who are dirty little sobs.  I like players who ride the line between physical and dirty as a rule.  But diving is cowardly no matter who does it, and I'd love to see it called with a 10 min. misconduct attached.  Think all those smurf Habs take a chance when they know they're off the ice for half a period?

    On another note, looks like Joe's going out after blowing a 3-0 lead.  Amazing that this is the second shot at a team taking the mantle of 'the last team to ...' from the Bruins only a year later.
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : Pick your subject.  If you want to discuss McQuaid and his ridiculous missed check, start a new thread or return to the thread you're partly quoting.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    I'm not going to start a thread regarding how idiotic your posts are..You do that yourself everytime you start one..So 1 dive makes a player a  diver but one fight doesnt make a player a fighter because of badge of honor??? What if I pull the youtube of Neely carving up Ladoceur with his stick?? Does that make him a dirty player, or is that another boy scout badge because he wasnt traded or left via free agency. You make NO sense...
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    ahhhhh, home sweet home, our perfectly beautiful dysfunctional family. a bruin fan who was recently pressured changed his habs avatar conversing with a bruin fan who's the most ignored guy here, campaigning for  others to ignore "trolls". you really couldn't make this stuff up. this reminds me of a fist fight i had with my brother over what the saying "defending champ" means- i won 
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]My sig!
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Seriously Hab-like dive right there! I haven't seen Joe do much diving but that is disgraceful.
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]Why did we see diving penalties called against pittsburgh and Thornton/SJ (omg!) in these playoffs but all that pansy flopping and faking didn't result in a single T against Montreal? Montreal's behavior was revolting and embarrassing, but the fact is if the league isn't going to call them, then what reason do they have to stop faking? It's little having a bratty kid.  This is on the NHL.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    My thoughts exactly, the Habs flopped with every contact and nothign called, sickening!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : I'm not going to start a thread regarding how idiotic your posts are..You do that yourself everytime you start one..So 1 dive makes a player a  diver but one fight doesnt make a player a fighter because of badge of honor??? What if I pull the youtube of Neely carving up Ladoceur with his stick?? Does that make him a dirty player, or is that another boy scout badge because he wasnt traded or left via free agency. You make NO sense...
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
    I don't know why but you remind me so much of RMiller,  that is before he went bonkers.
    Good points though and I agree with you. NAS doesn't forgive and maybe that's why he hasn't given props to Marchand.  Without him maybe the Bruins would have had a harder time advancing.
    I was already mad at Joe Thornton when he wasn't the leader I thought he was. It was the year that Koivu outplayed Joe and they both had cracked ribs.
    Then I got to thinking that Joe is great as a supporting cast player rather than the type of player that carries a team in the playoffs.  With SJ they have enough depth for him to shine. 
    Wait... didn't the Bruins have that depth in that last playoff he played in ? Anyway nevermind this is whole new debate.
    I'm not upset at him because he's not a Bruin anymore. I just don't like his attitude and comments he's made lately.  For that I hate him.
    Although it's human nature being a hockey fan of a team and wishing an x-player, deep down inside,  not winning anywhere else.  Maybe some don't want to admit but I will be brave enough to.
    I blame more the NHL officiating on "the dive" and "embellishment" for calls.
    Did Joe dive ?  YES !  will he dive again if tapped ?  That is when in my mind he's a diver or not.  
    IMO he got my get out of jail free card.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    Some guys are leaders and some arent.  I dont think Joe is a leader.  I think its too much pressure.  Does that make him a bad player?  Of course not.  The guy is a superstar in the NHL and every single GM in this league would kill to have him on their team.  You cant deny that. 

    As one who lives in Maine and has TONS of family and friends in Boston, I can honestly say this:  I hate ALL other Boston teams BECAUSE of the "fans".  They are, in general through my experience, a bunch of self-loathing, whining, band-wagon jumpers.  They only remember what they want to, when they want to.  They trash the Yanks for buying Championships but do the same.  They trash roid users and it comes out they had a few on their team when they won titles.  They "boo" players who get traded by management and cheer players who ask for a trade to a contender.  They chant "USA" at a game in which more than half of their players are Canadian, and only TWO are American.  I dont understand the mentality down there, I honestly dont.

    I grew up playing hockey and went to MANY Maine Mariner & Boston Bruins games as a kid.  Its probably the only reason Im a Bruins fan honestly.  If I had of showed up to this dance late, I would probably hate the Bruins too, simply because of the fans.

    Simply put, I think Thornton is hated more because he didnt bring the Bruins a cup, lost to the Habs after being up 3 games to 1 and was traded for not much at the time, then went on to win the Ross & Hart trophy the same year.

    Boston fans (Celts, Sox, Bruins, Pats) tend to lash-out at the wrong stuff.  It wasnt Thorntons fault alone that he never won them the cup.  It wasnt his fault that he might not have been a great captain.  It wasnt his fault he was traded and won the Ross & Hart the same year.

    Thornton is a superstar in the NHL and people are bitter that he's no longer here, whether they want to admit it or not.  He averages a point per game, and even in the playoffs he has 65 points in 91 games.  People loved Clemens when he was here, hated him when he left.  And I dont want to hear about roids, thats only in the past few years. 
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    Okay Bigs,  i could respect that.  BTW I'm not from Boston and I'm Canadian.
    You might be correct on fans whinning but where I come from the home team fans do the same. 
    Maybe you're as old as I am and remember the days when fans were fans and loved their team no matter what.
    Today it's the "what have you done for me lately attitude" unfortuneltly.

    as fo the USA chant I don't mind it one bit during the games.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    Well said Bigvig, to go watch a Boston team play at a bar is intolerable. I'll never do it again. Bourque asked to be dealt and gets a standing ovation upon return and fills a plaza and gets a heroes welcome home that people in our military could only dream of when he returns with a cup he won for another team. Joe Thornton plays a NHL playoff series with 2 broken ribs, gets traded because Mike O'Connell knows he has to pay him, but when notified of the trade like you said previously, pulls his truck to the side of the road and breaks down in tears because he loved it here so much. Gets booed in his return. That makes sense. As far as whether he was a good leader, kind of tough to judge that when we arent privvy to the going ons in the locker room on a daily basis. I do know that 2 organizations have made him captain, but if he didnt play in that series because of the ribs, his toughness would be questioned. 1 thing I did see with my own eyes. One of the last regualr season games when Ftorek was coach the B's have a lead and are about to go on the power play. Thorntons on the ice and the rest of the power play unit is coming out. Mike Knuble goes to get on the ice and joe puts his arm on him as if to say, "stay on the bench" and grabs P.J Stock and tells him to get out here. he promtly sets up P.J Stock for a power play goal..Thornton recognized what P.J meant to the team that year and rewarded him with time on the power play and it was fun to watch to see him go out of his way to set him up. To me, thats as much leadership as you'll ever see on ice. Just because he has a happy go lucky nature about him doesnt mean he cant lead a hockey team, but because he isnt a Bruin anymore it is questioned. Typical Boston fans, the same ones who boo Derek jeter and where those t-shirts,If Derek jeter ever broke down on Storrow Drive all the phony fans would be lining up to help change his tire. You won two world sereis because Manny had a testosterone level that Barbaro would be jealous of.
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    After the comments Joe made following the Chara incident and the 2 dives in the past 2 games, I really don't like him anymore - not that I did anyways as he was a choker here. Love how he throws a shoulder into Datsuk and then wants a call when Pavel slashes him as he's falling to the ground.

    But I understand why Joe dives since he's a big guy that's not going to fall down on contact, but those two plays were initiated by Joe which makes him a diver.

     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]Well said Bigvig, to go watch a Boston team play at a bar is intolerable. I'll never do it again. Bourque asked to be dealt and gets a standing ovation upon return and fills a plaza and gets a heroes welcome home that people in our military could only dream of when he returns with a cup he won for another team. Joe Thornton plays a NHL playoff series with 2 broken ribs, gets traded because Mike O'Connell knows he has to pay him, but when notified of the trade like you said previously, pulls his truck to the side of the road and breaks down in tears because he loved it here so much. Gets booed in his return. That makes sense. As far as whether he was a good leader, kind of tough to judge that when we arent privvy to the going ons in the locker room on a daily basis. I do know that 2 organizations have made him captain, but if he didnt play in that series because of the ribs, his toughness would be questioned. 1 thing I did see with my own eyes. One of the last regualr season games when Ftorek was coach the B's have a lead and are about to go on the power play. Thorntons on the ice and the rest of the power play unit is coming out. Mike Knuble goes to get on the ice and joe puts his arm on him as if to say, "stay on the bench" and grabs P.J Stock and tells him to get out here. he promtly sets up P.J Stock for a power play goal..Thornton recognized what P.J meant to the team that year and rewarded him with time on the power play and it was fun to watch to see him go out of his way to set him up. To me, thats as much leadership as you'll ever see on ice. Just because he has a happy go lucky nature about him doesnt mean he cant lead a hockey team, but because he isnt a Bruin anymore it is questioned. Typical Boston fans, the same ones who boo Derek jeter and where those t-shirts,If Derek jeter ever broke down on Storrow Drive all the phony fans would be lining up to help change his tire. You won two world sereis because Manny had a testosterone level that Barbaro would be jealous of.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]


    Stop. Just stop with the boston hate pretty annoying to read and serves no purpose other than you rapping on the people in this city.
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : Stop. Just stop with the boston hate pretty annoying to read and serves no purpose other than you rapping on the people in this city.
    Posted by I-Like-Hockey[/QUOTE]

    Not like I'm speaking from inexperience. I live in Braintree. Have all my life. I didn,t make you read it,it is the truth, and you can't deny the hypocricy. I can see why Joe said what he said.I would think he's a little miffed about chara receiving nothing and him getting two games for David Perron bumping into him.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sclifton-4-freespeech. Show sclifton-4-freespeech's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]Well said Bigvig, to go watch a Boston team play at a bar is intolerable. I'll never do it again. Bourque asked to be dealt and gets a standing ovation upon return and fills a plaza and gets a heroes welcome home that people in our military could only dream of when he returns with a cup he won for another team. Joe Thornton plays a NHL playoff series with 2 broken ribs, gets traded because Mike O'Connell knows he has to pay him, but when notified of the trade like you said previously, pulls his truck to the side of the road and breaks down in tears because he loved it here so much. Gets booed in his return. That makes sense. As far as whether he was a good leader, kind of tough to judge that when we arent privvy to the going ons in the locker room on a daily basis. I do know that 2 organizations have made him captain, but if he didnt play in that series because of the ribs, his toughness would be questioned. 1 thing I did see with my own eyes. One of the last regualr season games when Ftorek was coach the B's have a lead and are about to go on the power play. Thorntons on the ice and the rest of the power play unit is coming out. Mike Knuble goes to get on the ice and joe puts his arm on him as if to say, "stay on the bench" and grabs P.J Stock and tells him to get out here. he promtly sets up P.J Stock for a power play goal..Thornton recognized what P.J meant to the team that year and rewarded him with time on the power play and it was fun to watch to see him go out of his way to set him up. To me, thats as much leadership as you'll ever see on ice. Just because he has a happy go lucky nature about him doesnt mean he cant lead a hockey team, but because he isnt a Bruin anymore it is questioned. Typical Boston fans, the same ones who boo Derek jeter and where those t-shirts,If Derek jeter ever broke down on Storrow Drive all the phony fans would be lining up to help change his tire. You won two world sereis because Manny had a testosterone level that Barbaro would be jealous of.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    you find boston people intolreable?
    hmmm maybe start rooting for another team then?
    you think thornton is great leader bceause he has won what?
    and becuase he snends a powerplay specialist to the bench and brings on a goon,,,, yup awesome leadership skills??????...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    Kelvana,
    There is 2 sides to the Thorton discussion and Bookboy below summed it very well on another thread. See below.
    I don't like Joe Thorton for speaking BS on that the Bruins are favoured by the league.  Just for that I've lost a whole lot of respct for him therefore has nothing to do with when he played in Boston .

    [QUOTE] if Joe really wanted to play in Boston, he'd have had a completely different attitude.  The player I watched was becoming increasingly one-dimensional, less and less willing to use his body or drive the net.  The team was built around him, so when he disappeared - as he often did - he left a giant sucking black hole in the middle of the lineup.  And he has never acknowledged any responsibility for any of the team failings when he was here - not even a pro-rated share based on his pro-rated allotment of team salary.  I've never had a player disappoint me more and care less, so I'm not buying that the tears had anything to do with how badly he wanted to play in Boston.  That struck me as a tantrum by a brat who has just been sent to timeout because he refused to change his behaviour. He played like a genuine superstar for the first year in SJ, but he hasn't kept that level up and he's fallen back to where he was in Boston - a guy who, when surrounded by other great talents, still doesn't play up to his potential when it matters.  Right now we're seeing exactly that, especially with the cheese he's pulling. He knows that by playing a power game, he can escape that toilet bowl the Sharks are swirling down, but he's forgotten how to play a legit power game and is instead cheap shotting and diving.  Nice.  Superstar.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : you find boston people intolreable? hmmm maybe start rooting for another team then? you think thornton is great leader bceause he has won what? and becuase he snends a powerplay specialist to the bench and brings on a goon,,,, yup awesome leadership skills??????...
    Posted by sclifton-4-freespeech[/QUOTE]

    I said we couldnt really judge how good a leader is but I did give an example. He has won a Hart,Ross and an Olympic Gold medal with many years ahead of him. Hows your resume? I've never hear people question Dan Marinos' leadership skills. And........Thats what i find intolerable, the old "he aint a bruin anymore,he sux" attitude. He has much more hardware than Chara and the peoples favorite Bergeron cause thats how you judge leaders right? 
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]Kelvana, There is 2 sides to the Thorton discussion and Bookboy below summed it very well on another thread. See below. I don't like Joe Thorton for speaking BS on that the Bruins are favoured by the league.  Just for that I've lost a whole lot of respct for him therefore has nothing to do with when he played in Boston .
    Posted by BsLegion[/QUOTE]

    His game was setting up on the side boards or behind the net. Why would you take one of the truly best passers in the game and put him in fornt of the net? Cause he's big? Thats where Knuble makes his living, and he also had Glen Murray in the slot or in front of the net. He's a legit superstar in the NHL. why all the nitpicking?
     
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    Re: Joe Thornton


    well i dont think thornton sucks by any means but, he dosnt have dan marino leadership. winning an, art ross, hart and gold dosnt make it him neccesarily a good leader either. he is great hockey player but ponits in the regular season and playing on TEAM CANADA dosnt equal great leader.
    hasnt exactly showed great leadership in last 3 games either.

    my resume looks great thanks, why you need a graphic artist?

    bottom line you want to convince people that he is better captain than chara? why dont you go to sanjose site im sure youll find alot of follwers there.

    i wonder if JOE still eats jelly donuts while he is on the treadmill?
    maybe he buys a whole box for the team, that would be great leadership!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Joe Thornton

    In Response to Re: Joe Thornton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Thornton : His game was setting up on the side boards or behind the net. Why would you take one of the truly best passers in the game and put him in fornt of the net? Cause he's big? Thats where Knuble makes his living, and he also had Glen Murray in the slot or in front of the net. He's a legit superstar in the NHL. why all the nitpicking?
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    This tells me there is absolutely no point in continuing this discussion.  I'm not talking about having him play a Tim Kerr game where he roots himself at the top of the crease for tips and garbage goals.  I'm talking about the ridiculous ease with which a team can shut down a player who, given an equal lane to the net and the half-board, will make a beeline for the half board and look for the fancy pass. In the regular season, you can get away with it.  In the playoffs, a non-comatose coach will put someone in his face to take away his space and shut down his passing lanes.  Do that and he's a turnover machine.  Or at least, that's what he becomes if he won't take what you're giving him. 

    In Jr, in the Soo, he was dominant because he could, with equal domanince, take the puck to the net and score or, if you tried to shut him off, use the threat of his shot or a net drive to create lanes for those silky feeds.  Ever heard of Joe Seroski or Ben Schust?  Thornton put up 122 points and won 37 games on a team where he was the only elite talent.  When he left Boston, he had become the definition of a perimeter player, and the lovely little story of him taking it upon himself to over-ride the coach's decision on who should be on the ice is one more sign of a guy who thinks he's above being coached.  He was getting points playing that way; why should he change?  Because he was winning nothing.  That's why.

    The easiest thing to point to here is the Yzerman legend.  Guy was a scoring wizard for years, but he only became a winner when Scotty Bowman let it be known he was thinking of trading his arze to Ottawa because Federov was more well-rounded and the team didn't need a pure offensive talent if it could have a great all-around 1st line C.  So Yzerman changed his game, still scored a point a game for the rest of his career, but started to win.  Thornton has yet to do that.  I don't know if he'd ever have done that in Boston.  I heard an interview with a Sharks broadcaster who says Thornton's been much more committed this year, played that well-rounded game.  If that's true, good for him.  But he never made that commitment in Boston and if he hadn't been humbled by being traded, and by continually wearing the goat horns for Shark playoff failures, I don't think he ever would have.
     

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