Jordan Caron

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Maybe he's doing what he's told?  We don't know what the coaching staff has given him for instructions.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    You must be kidding!  The coaches are telling him to float, look out of place, not hit a soul.  LOL  Maybe the coaches told Marchand to upset you by attempting a slew foot after the whistle as well.  Give me a break!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Why is he being compared to Lucic? His point totals are minimal most likely due to the system he has been directed to follow and the fact that his linemates, outside of Chris Kelly, have been a offensive farce. I haven't been to a regular season game yet, but I can tell you that in the preseason, he was a very good player.  He played well enough to stay with the big club when others didn't.  He'll be fine.  He might not ever be a first line player, or even a second line player, but he'll be an NHLer and for right now, he's Bruins property.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Why is he being caompared to Lucic, because Lucic was a young rookie with a big body and similar type of game as Jordan.  I already said that I don't care about his point totals, it's the energy, or lack thereof that he has been bringing.  Him doing well in the preseason is telling to me, perfect for the AHL right now.  I am not arguing what Caron may become, my point is that I would like to see someone else get a shot right now!  Hopefully he steps it up, but if he stays like this for another week, I would send him down and bring in a Sauve, Arniel, or MacDermid for a go.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Why is he being caompared to Lucic, because Lucic was a young rookie with a big body and similar type of game as Jordan.  I already said that I don't care about his point totals, it's the energy, or lack thereof that he has been bringing.  Him doing well in the preseason is telling to me, perfect for the AHL right now.  I am not arguing what Caron may become, my point is that I would like to see someone else get a shot right now !  Hopefully he steps it up, but if he stays like this for another week, I would send him down and bring in a Sauve, Arniel, or MacDermid for a go.
    Posted by MeanE[/QUOTE]

    This post pretty well describes how an NHL club should work with their farm system . I like Caron but if he doesn't start showing some improvement in his game there's always someone down on the farm that should be given a chance to play in the NHL. Right now I tend to agree with MeanE. He has no jump. Give Caron some more time but if he doesn't show improvement bring up whoever is excelling in Providence to reward them.

    Competition for jobs is what makes teams better.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    I love the idea of making players earn their ice, their role, their jobs - always have.  Love the Wally Buono speech to his players that his job as GM is to find better players and put some of his current guys out of work.  The message being: make it hard for me to find someone I think can be better than you.  Caron's not doing that right now, but just as we debated with Seguin last year, it's hard to get results when you're playing about 8.5 minutes a game and getting about 13 shifts. 

    Just as a baseline for what that means, last year Krejci recorded roughly one point for every 26 shifts he was on the ice, including "special" teams.  Bergeron roughly every 32 shifts.  Caron has had a total of 37 shifts this year, so he's a total of five shifts overdue if you're expecting him to score at Bergeron's pace last year.

    MeanE's got a point - that it isn't really the numbers but the overall game he's playing - but I think this works for the whole package.  It's not much easier to charge off the bench and play with both discipline and frenzy if you're only intot he game for about four shifts a period.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    As far as this season, Caron has the worst 5v5 On-ice corsi rating of anyone on the Bruins; meaning, no other bruin has a worse differential of goals/shots/missed shots/blocked shots than Caron. (Seguin was down there last year too). That's bad enough to be ranked 523rd of 600 players that have seen games this season. Summary: When Caron is on the ice, the other team usually carries the play.

    DAVIDKREJCI 25.26
    BRADMARCHAND 20.1
    NATHANHORTON 19.84
    MILANLUCIC 18.73
    JOHNNYBOYCHUK 18.68
    PATRICEBERGERON 17.52
    TYLERSEGUIN 16.46
    ZDENOCHARA 14.56
    MATTHEWBARTKOWSKI 13.08
    BENOITPOULIOT 11.81
    RICHPEVERLEY 7.12
    JOECORVO 5.13
    DENNISSEIDENBERG -0.67
    ANDREWFERENCE -7.71
    SHAWNTHORNTON -10.88
    CHRISKELLY -12.35
    DANIELPAILLE -14.29
    GREGORYCAMPBELL -18.02
    ADAMMCQUAID -21
    JORDANCARON -21.11

    It would be one thing if caron was playing against other teams best lines, but Caron also ranks last on the bruins in Quality of Competition, and people want to see this kid in top 6 duty? So Patrice Bergeron and Brad Marchand can babysit him?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]As far as this season, Caron has the worst 5v5 On-ice corsi rating of anyone on the Bruins; meaning, no other bruin has a worse differential of goals/shots/missed shots/blocked shots than Caron. (Seguin was down there last year too). That's bad enough to be ranked 523rd of 600 players that have seen games this season. Summary: When Caron is on the ice, the other team usually carries the play. DAVIDKREJCI 25.26 BRADMARCHAND 20.1 NATHANHORTON 19.84 MILANLUCIC 18.73 JOHNNYBOYCHUK 18.68 PATRICEBERGERON 17.52 TYLERSEGUIN 16.46 ZDENOCHARA 14.56 MATTHEWBARTKOWSKI 13.08 BENOITPOULIOT 11.81 RICHPEVERLEY 7.12 JOECORVO 5.13 DENNISSEIDENBERG -0.67 ANDREWFERENCE -7.71 SHAWNTHORNTON -10.88 CHRISKELLY -12.35 DANIELPAILLE -14.29 GREGORYCAMPBELL -18.02 ADAMMCQUAID -21 JORDANCARON -21.11 It would be one thing if caron was playing against other teams best lines, but Caron also ranks last on the bruins in Quality of Competition, and people want to see this kid in top 6 duty? So Patrice Bergeron and Brad Marchand can babysit him?
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    Interesting stuff, but I will stick to the eye test as I don't know much about Corsi. Can you explain to me why Pouliot has a 11.81 and Caron a -21.11 even though they have payed on the same line often?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    MeanE, Bookboy, have expressed my opinion better then I could have, and Olsonicator supplied numbers to back up what my eyes have seen.  I would like to see another guy, probably Sauve get a shot soon.  It's not that I think I know everything there is to know about Jordan and his future.  I just feel that we would be better served trying some of these young players, until one of them takes ahold of the spot the way Marchand did last year.  Even when Marchand wasn't putting up points he was disrupting, and it didn't matter which line he was on.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Interesting stuff, but I will stick to the eye test as I don't know much about Corsi. Can you explain to me why Pouliot has a 11.81 and Caron a -21.11 even though they have payed on the same line often?
    Posted by MeanE[/QUOTE]

    There is still a lot of variance because the sample size is so small. That and Caron has 3 games and poliout has 4 games played.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    Crackpipe down please.

    Lucic's Junior career in PIMS: 04-05 102, 05-06 149. 06-07 147.

    Caron never topped 66 PIMs. Please explain exactly how they have a similar game??

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Why is he being caompared to Lucic, because Lucic was a young rookie with a big body and similar type of game as Jordan.  I already said that I don't care about his point totals, it's the energy, or lack thereof that he has been bringing.  Him doing well in the preseason is telling to me, perfect for the AHL right now.  I am not arguing what Caron may become, my point is that I would like to see someone else get a shot right now !  Hopefully he steps it up, but if he stays like this for another week, I would send him down and bring in a Sauve, Arniel, or MacDermid for a go.
    Posted by MeanE[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]Crackpipe down please. Lucic's Junior career in PIMS: 04-05 102, 05-06 149. 06-07 147. Caron never topped 66 PIMs. Please explain exactly how they have a similar game?? In Response to Re: Jordan Caron :
    Posted by bandgbleeder[/QUOTE]

    Did I say exact games?  No, I said similar.  Both would be considered power forwards would they not?  Nobody will confuse Jordan or Looch as finesse players. 

    Who is this about?:
    A big, heavy, powerful forward with poise and defensive maturity beyond his years. Doesn’t play angry, but wins his battles and works hard for space. Has the kind of offensive game that complements scoring forwards well, driving the net, working the walls down low, and setting up in front of the net. Is well-above average as a net front presence, setting screens and getting his stick on pucks for deflections. His feet are a little heavy and he lacks an explosive burst, but he has good top speed and can stay out in front of backcheckers when he gets sprung for a breakaway. Boasts excellent puck protection skills and can bull his way to the net under duress while maintaining possession. Has a nose for the net and a hard, accurate wrist shot that he can get off quickly in tight spaces. Best asset is an extremely high hockey IQ.

    Get the point!  Just because Caron didn't and doesn't drop the mitts, doesn't mean that the two can't have similar games.  So reach deep into your pocket and throw that darn pipe out my brother!  But be careful not to burn yourself, becasue you obviously hit that sucker recently! LMAO
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron :Who is this about?:
    Posted by MeanE[/QUOTE]

    Pouliot?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]As far as this season, Caron has the worst 5v5 On-ice corsi rating of anyone on the Bruins; meaning, no other bruin has a worse differential of goals/shots/missed shots/blocked shots than Caron.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    He's played about 26 total minutes this season.  I dislike Sabermetrics for hockey to begin with because too much of a player's production relies upon other players, but using it using these formulas with so few minutes played is absurd.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:[QUOTE]As far as this season, Caron has the worst 5v5 On-ice corsi rating of anyone on the Bruins; meaning, no other bruin has a worse differential of goals/shots/missed shots/blocked shots than Caron. (Seguin was down there last year too). and people want to see this kid in top 6 duty? So Patrice Bergeron and Brad Marchand can babysit him?
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    Ols, What were Marchand's 5v5 On-ice corsi rating in his first 26 games with the Bs 09'-10' ?

    The reason I ask is because Marchand in his first 20 games with the Bruins had one assist. I say Brad looked allot worse than Jordan after 20-26 games. Marchand exploded after he went from the 4th to the 3rd line.

    Also how many 25th overall picks since in the 2000 draft have exploded out of the gate ?

    I'm not giving up on Caron, gotta give the kid some time is all...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Ols, What were Marchand's 5v5 On-ice corsi rating in his first 26 games with the Bs 09'-10' ? The reason I ask is because Marchand in his first 20 games with the Bruins had one assist. I say Brad looked allot worse than Jordan after 20-26 games. Marchand exploded after he went from the 4th to the 3rd line. Also how many 25th overall picks since in the 2000 draft have exploded out of the gate ? I'm not giving up on Caron, gotta give the kid some time is all...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    Agreed San. I'm not sure why anyone thinks a player's career can be defined before he's even 21 years old. Caron is neither a sure thing nor a bust. He's just a young pro that's still learning his trade.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Agreed San. I'm not sure why anyone thinks a player's career can be defined before he's even 21 years old. Caron is neither a sure thing nor a bust. He's just a young pro that's still learning his trade.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    San and Dez, most of the posts against Caron have not gone to the extreme of defining a career.  Most of the 'anti' Caron guys, simply want to see if Sauve or another kid may acclimate better.  I know that if it were Sauve, for Caron, I would expect to see Caron again and I would be happy with that.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    Cogliano 18 goals 3 years after being drafted in 2005 and Berglund 21 goals in his 3rd year. Nemisz has just made it from 2008 1 assist in 6 games.  Schremp 2004 has never played more than 45 games or more than 10 goals. Stewart finally got to 80 games, 14 goals last year after being drafted 25th in 2003.

    WOW 25th is a pretty good number for the draft Steve Ott and Cam Ward...no wait I hate them both LoL!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : San and Dez, most of the posts against Caron have not gone to the extreme of defining a career.  Most of the 'anti' Caron guys, simply want to see if Sauve or another kid may acclimate better.  I know that if it were Sauve, for Caron, I would expect to see Caron again and I would be happy with that.
    Posted by RickyHussle[/QUOTE]
    Ricky, Fourrings started a Caron Sucks thread in which he stated Caron needs to b traded. A little knee-jerk I think.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    I understand the sample size is small.

    btw: Nice shot by Caron, almost went upstairs on Cam Ward.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]I understand the sample size is small. btw: Nice shot by Caron, almost went upstairs on Cam Ward.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]
    He also used his size nicely on that shift.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Ricky, Fourrings started a Caron Sucks thread in which he stated Caron needs to b traded. A little knee-jerk I think.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I saw that other thread after I responded.  Still it seems like in politics it's hard for a moderate view to receive notice here.  We could have a good discussion about this player and what he is bringing to the table, but all the optimists seem focused on the pessimist fourrings, who at least in this case seem to be approaching the intelligence of a cactustony post.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Yeah, I saw that other thread after I responded.  Still it seems like in politics it's hard for a moderate view to receive notice here.  We could have a good discussion about this player and what he is bringing to the table, but all the optimists seem focused on the pessimist fourrings, who at least in this case seem to be approaching the intelligence of a cactustony post.
    Posted by RickyHussle[/QUOTE]
    Agreed.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : He's played about 26 total minutes this season.  I dislike Sabermetrics for hockey to begin with because too much of a player's production relies upon other players, but using it using these formulas with so few minutes played is absurd.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]


    I personally think the numbers correlate very well to unbaised observations about who is playing the best, and who is the most effective. I also know there are several easily accesible metrics that directly focus on the quality of teammate on the ice, and quality of opponent.

    Im not going to make it my mission to personally defend these metrics at every turn, but I plan on using them more and more on these forums. I do respect different oppinions on them, and I don't think they are gospel so take it for what its worth, but there's a reason why wall street is chuck full of mathematics phds and the finance guys are falling by the wayside, statistics are often more reliable indicators of performance.

    Without the numbers, I still say I don't think caron has been effective, however, he's playing well tonight. My bet is, Jordan caron's corsi numbers will look much better tomorrow.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : I personally think the numbers correlate very well to unbaised observations about who is playing the best, and who is the most effective. I also know there are several easily accesible metrics that directly focus on the quality of teammate on the ice, and quality of opponent. Im not going to make it my mission to personally defend these metrics at every turn, but I plan on using them more and more on these forums. I do respect different oppinions on them, and I don't think they are gospel so take it for what its worth, but there's a reason why wall street is chuck full of mathematics phds and the finance guys are falling by the wayside, statistics are often more reliable indicators of performance. Without the numbers, I still say I don't think caron has been effective, however, he's playing well tonight. My bet is, Jordan caron's corsi numbers will look much better tomorrow.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    Wall Street is the biggest sham this side of Milli Vanilli.

    But honestly, I see the CORSI rating as reliable as +/-.  Way too many factors involved to be reliable.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    No not similar.
    Caron is more defensive, showed a better goal scoring touch in Junior and is probably closer to Matt Moulson or Michael Grabner style of hockey than Lucic's. Comparing them is just silly.

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jordan Caron : Did I say exact games?  No, I said similar.  Both would be considered power forwards would they not?  Nobody will confuse Jordan or Looch as finesse players.  Who is this about?: A big, heavy, powerful forward with poise and defensive maturity beyond his years. Doesn’t play angry, but wins his battles and works hard for space. Has the kind of offensive game that complements scoring forwards well, driving the net, working the walls down low, and setting up in front of the net. Is well-above average as a net front presence, setting screens and getting his stick on pucks for deflections. His feet are a little heavy and he lacks an explosive burst, but he has good top speed and can stay out in front of backcheckers when he gets sprung for a breakaway. Boasts excellent puck protection skills and can bull his way to the net under duress while maintaining possession. Has a nose for the net and a hard, accurate wrist shot that he can get off quickly in tight spaces. Best asset is an extremely high hockey IQ. Get the point!  Just because Caron didn't and doesn't drop the mitts, doesn't mean that the two can't have similar games.  So reach deep into your pocket and throw that darn pipe out my brother!  But be careful not to burn yourself, becasue you obviously hit that sucker recently! LMAO
    Posted by MeanE[/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Jordan Caron

    In Response to Re: Jordan Caron:
    [QUOTE]No not similar. Caron is more defensive, showed a better goal scoring touch in Junior and is probably closer to Matt Moulson or Michael Grabner style of hockey than Lucic's. Comparing them is just silly. In Response to Re: Jordan Caron :
    Posted by bandgbleeder[/QUOTE]
    Comparing Grabner to Caron makes no sense either. Grabner is 1 of the league's fastest players.
     

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