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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with Julien.  If you want to complain about his playoff record as a coach, fine, I get that.  He's still got to prove it there.  But, when people are calling him out and saying that he is inept, or  a "terrible In game Manager", I have to inject some facts into this argument (sorry!).  Going back to the last time the bruins were in the Cup Finals, here are the winning % of bruins coaches: #     Name         Term        GC  W  L    T  w% Playoffs 17 Terry O'Reilly † 1986 – 1989 227 115 86 26 .564 37 17 19 1   [ 25 ] 18 Mike Milbury * 1989 – 1991 160 90 49 21 .628 40 23 17 0   [ 26 ] 19 Rick Bowness 1991–1992 80 36 32 12 .525 15 8 7 0   [ 27 ] 20 Brian Sutter 1992 – 1995 216 120 73 23 .609 22 7 15 0   [ 28 ] 21 Steve Kasper † 1995 – 1997 164 66 78 20 .463 5 1 4 0   [ 29 ] 22 Pat Burns 1997 – 2000 254 105 103 46 .504 18 8 10 0 1998 Jack Adams Award Winner [ 30 ] 23 Mike Keenan 2000–2001 74 33 34 7 .547 — — — —   [ 31 ] 24 Robbie Ftorek 2001 – 2003 155 76 65 14 .577 6 2 4 0   [ 32 ] 25 Mike O'Connell † 2003 9 3 3 3 .500 5 1 4 0   [ 33 ] 26 Mike Sullivan † 2003 – 2006 164 70 79 15 .543 7 3 4 0   [ 7 ] 27 Dave Lewis 2006–2007 82 35 41 6 .463 — — — —   [ 34 ] 28 Claude Julien 2007 –present 246 133 78 35 .612 31 17 14 0 2009 Jack Adams Award Winner I'm not saying he's the best coach of all time, but seriously, he has the best winning percentage of any Bruins coach in the last 20 years!  And it's not like he walked in with a cup contender (anyone remember the Dave lewis Team?) So, can we please stop calling him terrible, idiot, etc.  Disagreeing with some decisions I get, this is Boston which is a real sports town with real fans, but maybe he has solid reasons for what he does and his record speaks for itself. Let's enjoy!
    Posted by sgebhardt8




                    He will keep teams in the hunt.He likes the full team work thing.But as the season progresses the great players for other teams become greater.The great players for the Bs stay great.The emphasis with Julien is running as many players as he can.He keeps them at bay with his systems also.If Boston wins a cup it will be a system thing more than any 1-2 players winning it.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from OlsonicCreations. Show OlsonicCreations's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    note: Julien was fired before the playoffs after leading the devils to the best record in the Eastern conference.....just citing his winning % isn't enough. his teams have not performed in the playoffs when they've had more than enough talent to do so...

    Maybe he should go ahead and keep Shawn Thornton on the bench next time it's game 7 in the eastern conference finals with 10 minutes left down by a goal.....

    Maybe he should put two men on the puck instead of just sitting in the g-d trap like a deer in the head-lights--completely unwilling to adjust.

    I give Julien a pass on last season, key injuries in the playoffs were really a killer. but there was no excuse for losing to Carolina.


    I don't think anyone would argue that Julien is a BAD coach, he clearly isn't. However,  he has made mistakes at critical times that have cost this team at least one shot at a cup.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sgebhardt8. Show sgebhardt8's posts

    Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with Julien.  If you want to complain about his playoff record as a coach, fine, I get that.  He's still got to prove it there.  But, when people are calling him out and saying that he is inept, or  a "terrible In game Manager", I have to inject some facts into this argument (sorry!).  Going back to the last time the bruins were in the Cup Finals, here are the winning % of bruins coaches:










    #     Name         Term        GC  W  L    T  w% Playoffs
    17 Terry O'Reilly† 1986–1989 227 115 86 26 .564 37 17 19 1   [25]
    18 Mike Milbury* 1989–1991 160 90 49 21 .628 40 23 17 0   [26]
    19 Rick Bowness 1991–1992 80 36 32 12 .525 15 8 7 0   [27]
    20 Brian Sutter 1992–1995 216 120 73 23 .609 22 7 15 0   [28]
    21 Steve Kasper† 1995–1997 164 66 78 20 .463 5 1 4 0   [29]
    22 Pat Burns 1997–2000 254 105 103 46 .504 18 8 10 0 1998 Jack Adams Award Winner [30]
    23 Mike Keenan 2000–2001 74 33 34 7 .547 — — — —   [31]
    24 Robbie Ftorek 2001–2003 155 76 65 14 .577 6 2 4 0   [32]
    25 Mike O'Connell† 2003 9 3 3 3 .500 5 1 4 0   [33]
    26 Mike Sullivan† 2003–2006 164 70 79 15 .543 7 3 4 0   [7]
    27 Dave Lewis 2006–2007 82 35 41 6 .463 — — — —   [34]
    28 Claude Julien 2007–present 246 133 78 35 .612 31 17 14 0 2009 Jack Adams Award Winner
    I'm not saying he's the best coach of all time, but seriously, he has the best winning percentage of any Bruins coach in the last 20 years!  And it's not like he walked in with a cup contender (anyone remember the Dave lewis Team?)

    So, can we please stop calling him terrible, idiot, etc.  Disagreeing with some decisions I get, this is Boston which is a real sports town with real fans, but maybe he has solid reasons for what he does and his record speaks for itself.

    Let's enjoy!
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    What are the facts?

    Zero Cups.

    Zero conference finals.

    Opinions:

    Can't motivate his team

    Doesn't adjust in game.

    Plays the fourth line too much.

    Plays the fourth line in key situations.

    Very rarely scratches someone to send a message.

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    Julien was fired before the playoffs after leading the devils to the best record in the Eastern conference. ---------------------- Sorry, but that is rediculous to bring that firing up considering the egomanic that fired him.  Lou Lamoriello got rid of JC for his own vanity like he did when he fired Ftorek in the same way and the supposed "resignation" of Robinson in the same kind of sitaution.  Lamoriello may have GMed his way into 3 cups and he deserves kudos for that but he is an self absorbed attention seeker and I hardly blame JC for the shaft his was given by Lamoriello.  PS The Devils were second best in the conference at the time of the firing.
    Posted by ssags111


    Good post ! Lamoriello deserve's credit for winning 3 cups as a GM. I have read other posters ( including the miserable one ) rationalize that when CJ was fired they thought it was a good decision made by a GM who had a resume of 3 cups and that was good enough for them. Well since CJ was fired (06-07) the Devils have been eliminated in the first round every year except for once . The only coach to win a series . Lamoriello himself , the year CJ was fired taking over a first place Eastern Conference team coached by CJ during the regular season. First round knockouts ever since. Should the blame for having these coaches behind the bench be Lamoriello's ? Obviously ! Was firing CJ a knee jerk reaction ? Did Lamoriello think he could recreate a little deja vu like the Ftorek - Robinson outcome ? I think an argument can be made as yes being the answers considering his team has won 0 playoff series with the coaches he has hired since.

    2006–0782492491072162018301st, AtlanticLost in Conference Semifinals, 1–4 (Senators)
    2007–088246297992061979742nd, AtlanticLost in Conference Quarterfinals, 1–4 (Rangers)
    2008–0982512741062442099741st, AtlanticLost in Conference Quarterfinals, 3–4 (Hurricanes)
    2009–1082482771032221918591st, AtlanticLost in Conference Quarterfinals, 1-4 (Flyers)
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    "I shouldn't over-state anymore that he doesn't shorten the bench at all." You don't have to becuase with the talent that Chiarelli is assembling Julien will either be his stubborn self not shorten the bench not get a cup with that talent then be fired. PC will have no choice in time especially if Julien loses another game where he is out coached by the likes of Laviolette and Maurice. When I see Julien starts solving the 2 man forecheck that might be a start to a  cahange I'd like to see. Hopefully Neely can chime on if Chiarelli won't.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin



    Well said SanDog...these are comments that knowledgeable and insightful FANs would appreciate. It's a fair and valid assessment of past performance behind the bench...obvious to the unbiased. Only a know nothing, arrogant, clam strip with an inferiority complex and a low hockey IQ could disagree.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts? : watch the tape.
    Posted by OlsonicCreations

    Of the Bruins in the Eastern Conference Finals?
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    note: Julien was fired before the playoffs after leading the devils to the best record in the Eastern conference.....just citing his winning % isn't enough. his teams have not performed in the playoffs when they've had more than enough talent to do so... Maybe he should go ahead and keep Shawn Thornton on the bench next time it's game 7 in the eastern conference finals with 10 minutes left down by a goal..... Maybe he should put two men on the puck instead of just sitting in the g-d trap like a deer in the head-lights--completely unwilling to adjust. I give Julien a pass on last season, key injuries in the playoffs were really a killer. but there was no excuse for losing to Carolina. I don't think anyone would argue that Julien is a BAD coach, he clearly isn't. However,  he has made mistakes at critical times that have cost this team at least one shot at a cup.
    Posted by OlsonicCreations


                      You know your hockey
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ssags111. Show ssags111's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    Julien was fired before the playoffs after leading the devils to the best record in the Eastern conference.

    ----------------------


    Sorry, but that is rediculous to bring that firing up considering the egomanic that fired him.  Lou Lamoriello got rid of JC for his own vanity like he did when he fired Ftorek in the same way and the supposed "resignation" of Robinson in the same kind of sitaution. 

    Lamoriello may have GMed his way into 3 cups and he deserves kudos for that but he is an self absorbed attention seeker and I hardly blame JC for the shaft his was given by Lamoriello. 

    PS The Devils were second best in the conference at the time of the firing.
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    He is a good coach, and theplayers seem to play for him, but.....

    He didn't make the necessary adjustments to handle Eric Stall. Stall started to run over Chara, and he didn't come up with any viable options to move the puck through someone else, to get it out of their end. He could have used a forward to play deep and take the pressure off if he didn't have any other Dman to do that job. It is what killed them in that series. I know Humwick got hurt, and had had a great playoff run before the injury, and Wideman, was well Wideman.

    In the Philly series we know that they were going to be goal challenged, so the only way to win was to get the Goaltending. It was obvious that Rask wasn't up to the task, and TT should have gone in for at least one game. Game 6 in my humble opinion.
     
    Arguments can be made for and against, but the bottom line is the bottom line. In a Series they should have won easily - Carolina, and in a series where they had a 3 game lead, his teams coughed up the bit.

     
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from OlsonicCreations. Show OlsonicCreations's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    Since I have to go, I am going to assume you meant the semi-finals.  But which year? Last year , Thornton didn't see any ice time after the middle of the 2nd. Two years ago , the Bruins weren't down by a goal with 10 minutes left, it was already tied, and Thornton sat for 23 minutes straight starting in the middle of the third, before coming onto the ice just before the winning goal (with Montador and Wideman having both been on the ice for a minute and a half).
    Posted by DrCC

    yes the 2009 conference semis against carolina (sorry my bad), I wasn't talking about last year, because as I said, "I give julien a pass for last year because of injuries". you  must have missed that, right? you must have also read that I said carolina, right? You must have missed that too. orrr... maybe you knew exactly what I was talking about the whole time.

    As far as being down by a goal, yes we were tied--mis-statement on my part, but I made the argument before when my recollection was better.  When the game is tied in game 7 with 10 minutes left, you leave your 4th line on the bench.... and YES the 4th line was out on the ice getting minutes with less than 10 minutes left in the 3rd of GAME 7. 

    and YES they were trapping because I specifically remember watching Savard up by the blue-line on the weak side just waiting to play defense. I also remember carolina burning us through the neutral zone all game and all series long, and we stuck with the trap.

    If you are going to lose a game 7, you do it with your best players out on the ice. In game 7, late in the third period, you run 3 lines. (Hell Anaheim ran 2 lines that year).


    It's coaching 101, you shorten the bench. Are you really going to sit here and argue that it's a reasonable strategy that late in the most important game of the playoffs?
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    How about this one: In the first period tonight: Thornton:  4:28 Seguin:  4:14 Lucic:  4:23 Campbell:  5:12 Horton:  5:26 Marchand:  5:08 Krejci:  5:17 It's a 1-0 game.  God forbid they try to get ahead early!
    Posted by Not-A-Shot
    4 nothing final what's your point? If you can role 4 lines like this it's a huge plus in a long season.
    Full marks for CJ tonight.
    There are times I want to hang him..... and then there is now.
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    How about this one:

    In the first period tonight:

    Thornton:  4:28
    Seguin:  4:14
    Lucic:  4:23
    Campbell:  5:12
    Horton:  5:26
    Marchand:  5:08
    Krejci:  5:17

    It's a 1-0 game.  God forbid they try to get ahead early!
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    Fact : 25 teams in the NHL have coaches that haven't won a cup

    Opinion : Of the 5 that have cup winning coaches how many will be willing to let them go - None

    Conclusion : Dig up Toe Blake
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OlsonicCreations. Show OlsonicCreations's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    Of course, anyone who knows the Bruins knew that the moment Krejci went down, the Bruins were in huge trouble. Savard was playing with a scrambled brain, Sobotka had a separated shoulder (how many Bruins fans are aware that he had surgery after the Philly series?) and then they lost their best offensive player. 
    Posted by duinne


    QFT
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    I always liked CJ but i have to admit that loosing against Philly left a sour taste in my mouth.  I don't want to put the blame only on the coach because he was not the one on the ice.  Julien just has to find a way to get the boys going and inject some confidence when things are not going their way.  It could be a speach, a time out, change the goalie but he has to do something to turn things around.  At the same time Chara too has to play better in crunch time.  Your better players have to be your best players in critical moments.  Another thing is that is seems like the lst couple of years the timming was not good for the Bs.  Last year our best player was Krejci and he got injured.  If the bs stay healthy... they will do some dammage in the playoffs!!
    Posted by lucaooo


    A speech? You think a speech would have made the difference? How about Lucic putting the puck in the net in the last 10 minutes of the game, instead of off the post? The difference of a quarter-inch, and suddenly Julien looks like a genius.

    Such is hockey. Of course, anyone who knows the Bruins knew that the moment Krejci went down, the Bruins were in huge trouble. Savard was playing with a scrambled brain, Sobotka had a separated shoulder (how many Bruins fans are aware that he had surgery after the Philly series?) and then they lost their best offensive player. Still, they took Philly to the brink; heck, if Recchi hadn't missed an open net in OT in game four, they would have swept the Flyers.

    Casual fans look at the series and scream "choke!" but serious hockey fans know better. The Blackhawks had a very talented team and deserved to win the Cup, but they were also remarkably healthy. If they'd lost Jonathan Toews to a broken wrist (their version of Krejci), would they have won the Cup? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is, they'd be excused a lot more easily by casual fans, because Toews is a bigger "name" than Krejci. Bruins fans know what Krejci means to the Bruins (especially with Savard out), but most fans around the country do not.
     

     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    Maybe he should go ahead and keep Shawn Thornton on the bench next time it's game 7 in the eastern conference finals with 10 minutes left down by a goal.....
    Posted by OlsonicCreations

    Huh?
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    I always liked CJ but i have to admit that loosing against Philly left a sour taste in my mouth.  I don't want to put the blame only on the coach because he was not the one on the ice.  Julien just has to find a way to get the boys going and inject some confidence when things are not going their way.  It could be a speach, a time out, change the goalie but he has to do something to turn things around.  At the same time Chara too has to play better in crunch time.  Your better players have to be your best players in critical moments. 
    Another thing is that is seems like the lst couple of years the timming was not good for the Bs.  Last year our best player was Krejci and he got injured.  If the bs stay healthy... they will do some dammage in the playoffs!!
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    It won't let me reply, but this is for Olsonic;
    First, I'm sorry I cam across as overly coy.  Your original post made it seem like the Carolina comment was seperate from the rest of the post.  I don't like assuming things, or putting words in other people's mouths, but this was a situation where I should have realized it was safe to do.

    On topic:
    Check the links I provided.  Axelsson and Yelle got some ice time (and both at least were defensively useful), but Thornton's butt was glued to the bench for a long, long time in the situation you describe.

    Julien shortens the bench in those situations; the records show it.  Now that has nothing to do with the team trapping in that situation.  I don't like that either.

    There are many things you can single out to complain about for Julien - but stating that he doesn't shorten the bench is flat out wrong.  He'll use defensive 4th liners to spell the other forwards, but players with no real use besides being a body on the ice (=Thornton) sit for extended periods.

    If I wanted to complain, I think I would ask why Thornton was even dressed.  Him getting in a fight was highly unlikely, and it's not like he brings any other use to the team in the playoffs.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    Since I have to go, I am going to assume you meant the semi-finals.  But which year?

    Last year, Thornton didn't see any ice time after the middle of the 2nd.

    Two years ago, the Bruins weren't down by a goal with 10 minutes left, it was already tied, and Thornton sat for 23 minutes straight starting in the middle of the third, before coming onto the ice just before the winning goal (with Montador and Wideman having both been on the ice for a minute and a half).
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    "I shouldn't over-state anymore that he doesn't shorten the bench at all."

    You don't have to becuase with the talent that Chiarelli is assembling Julien will either be his stubborn self not shorten the bench not get a cup with that talent then be fired. PC will have no choice in time especially if Julien loses another game where he is out coached by the likes of Laviolette and Maurice.

    When I see Julien starts solving the 2 man forecheck that might be a start to a  change I'd like to see. Hopefully Neely can chime on if Chiarelli won't.
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    Before we go anointing Julien the best coach ever shouldn't we wait until he takes a team to the third round of the playoffs.  He is 0 for 3 in the second round that makes me think he is something less than a genius.
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    Allready stated on another post that Claude is steady, he has brought the Bruins back from Lewisville, but, he is not exciting or innovative. Can he modify his "system" as the bruins selectively add quality players like Seguin, Sauve,McNight, Spooner? Your guess is as good as mine. The continuing evolution will require some changes in how the PP plays, cycling around the box won't do it; evolution might replace sean Thornton or Mark Recchi and add more Seidenberg[ as we saw last night] like defensemen. Remember, Claude makes up the lines and pairings with what Chia provides; if there are player complaints, as in New Jersey, it could cause some change in coaching or structure.
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts? : Huh?
    Posted by DrCC


    watch the tape.
     

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    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    posted at 11/8/2010 4:37 PM EST

    Julen haters? I don't even know Julen.
    Kidding aside, Good coach, even keel if a bit boring. The "system" obviously works in the course of a season. Can he make the adjustments in the playoffs is the golden question? If they are healthy this year going in, and pull an el-foldo with the improved offense then I will think less than good. If he gets them to the finals, then he'll be very good. Really a make or break year in his coaching tenure.