Julen Haters: What are the facts?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    And the most important fact of all........if you have less talent your usually going to lose.
    I'm not going to go into injuries simply because many on here don't understand the significance.
    Most casual fans will look at wins and losses and not how a team got there.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    No worries Olsonic, for whatever reason these forums get to all of us at one point or another.  Usually when the Bruins go on a skid.

    For what little it is worth, looking through TOI logs it actually looks like Julien has gotten more willing to ride his top lines in key situations as his time in Boston has progressed.  Hopefully we won't find out this year because the Bruins will win playoff rounds before a game 7.
    But that's over 1000 NHL games away.  I'm not going to count on the leopard changing his shorts before then as far as being more flexible, but if Chiarelli is trying to build a team to suit Julien's coaching style (which would be my guess) maybe it won't matter.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OlsonicCreations. Show OlsonicCreations's posts

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    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]It won't let me reply, but this is for Olsonic; First, I'm sorry I cam across as overly coy.  Your original post made it seem like the Carolina comment was seperate from the rest of the post.  I don't like assuming things, or putting words in other people's mouths, but this was a situation where I should have realized it was safe to do. On topic: Check the links I provided.  Axelsson and Yelle got some ice time (and both at least were defensively useful), but Thornton's butt was glued to the bench for a long, long time in the situation you describe. Julien shortens the bench in those situations; the records show it.  Now that has nothing to do with the team trapping in that situation.  I don't like that either. There are many things you can single out to complain about for Julien - but stating that he doesn't shorten the bench is flat out wrong.  He'll use defensive 4th liners to spell the other forwards, but players with no real use besides being a body on the ice (=Thornton) sit for extended periods. If I wanted to complain, I think I would ask why Thornton was even dressed.  Him getting in a fight was highly unlikely, and it's not like he brings any other use to the team in the playoffs.
    Posted by DrCC[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I meant the 4th line, not specifically Thornton. My argument is really about the act of spelling your top three lines at all in game 7 in the third period +. Maybe it's just me, I suppose it didn't matter though, the 4th line wasn't out there when we Walker scored anyways, I just think the whole 4th line shoulda been riding the pine that late in game 7.


    But that's a reasonable Counter, Dr CC. I shouldn't over-state anymore that he doesn't shorten the bench at all. I'm sorry for being a dick
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

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    In Response to Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with Julien.  If you want to complain about his playoff record as a coach, fine, I get that.  He's still got to prove it there.  But, when people are calling him out and saying that he is inept, or  a "terrible In game Manager", I have to inject some facts into this argument (sorry!).  Going back to the last time the bruins were in the Cup Finals, here are the winning % of bruins coaches: #     Name         Term        GC  W  L    T  w% Playoffs 17 Terry O'Reilly † 1986 – 1989 227 115 86 26 .564 37 17 19 1   [ 25 ] 18 Mike Milbury * 1989 – 1991 160 90 49 21 .628 40 23 17 0   [ 26 ] 19 Rick Bowness 1991–1992 80 36 32 12 .525 15 8 7 0   [ 27 ] 20 Brian Sutter 1992 – 1995 216 120 73 23 .609 22 7 15 0   [ 28 ] 21 Steve Kasper † 1995 – 1997 164 66 78 20 .463 5 1 4 0   [ 29 ] 22 Pat Burns 1997 – 2000 254 105 103 46 .504 18 8 10 0 1998 Jack Adams Award Winner [ 30 ] 23 Mike Keenan 2000–2001 74 33 34 7 .547 — — — —   [ 31 ] 24 Robbie Ftorek 2001 – 2003 155 76 65 14 .577 6 2 4 0   [ 32 ] 25 Mike O'Connell † 2003 9 3 3 3 .500 5 1 4 0   [ 33 ] 26 Mike Sullivan † 2003 – 2006 164 70 79 15 .543 7 3 4 0   [ 7 ] 27 Dave Lewis 2006–2007 82 35 41 6 .463 — — — —   [ 34 ] 28 Claude Julien 2007 –present 246 133 78 35 .612 31 17 14 0 2009 Jack Adams Award Winner I'm not saying he's the best coach of all time, but seriously, he has the best winning percentage of any Bruins coach in the last 20 years!  And it's not like he walked in with a cup contender (anyone remember the Dave lewis Team?) So, can we please stop calling him terrible, idiot, etc.  Disagreeing with some decisions I get, this is Boston which is a real sports town with real fans, but maybe he has solid reasons for what he does and his record speaks for itself. Let's enjoy!
    Posted by sgebhardt8[/QUOTE]

       Thanks for these stats.Do you have a comparable chart for Montreal ?,just thought it would be interesting.Comparable team in our division.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BlackandGold24. Show BlackandGold24's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    My only problem with Claude Julien is watching the 4th line skate down the ice with 10 minutes left and the B's down by 1. He likes to roll 4 lines too much. They do get the least ice time, but they shouldn't get any time late in the game down by 1. I have no problem with his defense-first style, though. It seems to work pretty well at times.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    How about this one :

    There was only one shift where that line didn't have the play in the Sens zone creating scoring chances. The one where Seidenberg tried to wrap the puck around the boards but his stick blew up . Then Fisher wrang one off the crossbar. I have the game taped and rewatched the first period because I read your post and I said to myself HUH ! They were all over the Sens . Marchand had about 3-4 himself . People complain about Julien not changing his in game coaching . Well he did . That line in the first period was the best line out of the 4 so he kept throwing them out there. I keep hearing play your best players . I agree .In that period they were the best players.

     I'd be agreeing with you about ice time for the 4th line in the first period if they were playing average or less. But what the ice time totals you posted don't say  is the performance of each line in that period.  Give me an address and I'll send you the tape because if you watched the game I don't think you were paying attention to the play of each line.

    One question for you . Do you not believe in putting out the players that are performing or do you just have the mindset that some say Julien has by sticking to the same old game plan regardless of what is happening on the ice ?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    I don't know if Julien is unable to adjust or if he is philosphically committed to a position where you don't react to the other team's strategies.  You do what you do well, what you do best, and do it as well as you can.  That's the sword - live by it or die by it.

    You play the fourth line bigger minutes than most teams because, in theory, you get better minutes out of your top lines if they play slightly less.  You play the system no matter what because you believe it maximizes results from the talents of your player - that is, goals against vs. goals for.  Last year, the Bruins couldn't score on an empty net most nights.  The system got them into the playoffs.  "Adjusting" would have gotten them into Dave Lewis land.

    We know the system works to a point.  Where I think Julien's no-matter-what philosophy breaks down is when key players are over-matched or don't rise to the level of the opposition.  Rask didn't elevate his game to the level Briere, Richards, and Gagne were playing at last year, and Chara didn't elevate his game to match Staal's intensity two years ago.  You have to recognize when a guy is getting beat so the whole she-bang doesn't rest on one battle.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]"Julien flip-flopped Recchi and Wheeler. Recchi skated on the right wing alongside Bergeron and Jordan Caron. Wheeler moved to the left wing next to Seguin and Ryder." If this continues then I see Julien doing better at in game adjustments. Ryder with only 12 minutes is good don't need to see him but Shawn Thornton at 15:44 TOI 1:00 PP time ? puzzling...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    I normally cringe when Thornton has the puck but he and Marchand looked great last night.Campbell has been a pleasant surprise too.During the 2nd intermission my brother said to me that he wouldn't be surprised to see the 4th line get rewarded with some PP time if the Bruins got up by another goal and voila.I personally like the idea of rewarding strong play with increased responsibility.CJ is dangling the carrot and the 4th line(like everyone else)is responding.Good for them and good for us as Bruins fans.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    "Julien flip-flopped Recchi and Wheeler. Recchi skated on the right wing alongside Bergeron and Jordan Caron. Wheeler moved to the left wing next to Seguin and Ryder."

    If this continues then I see Julien doing better at in game adjustments. Ryder with only 12 minutes is good don't need to see him but Shawn Thornton at 15:44 TOI 1:00 PP time ? puzzling...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts? : Because Ryder played an excellent game and has been shooting very well. They also practice shootouts, and Julien will often go with the hot hand as determined in the days leading up to the game. For all we know, Horton had been floundering in shootout practice and Ryder had been hot as a pistol. This is what I'm talking about when I say we're not privvy to what's going on behind the scenes. Bergeron and Ryder's shots both beat Halak and hit the posts. I can't see how you can blame Julien for that.
    Posted by duinne[/QUOTE]

    BTW Seguin has been lights out in practice and the reason he got the nod to take one .  Ryder was also one of the best in practice and so was last season hence the reason he was chosen .
    I'm sure if it would have gone the extra shooter Horton would have been next on the list. 
    I was more disappointed Rask  didn't stop one and not at him personally , he played well . Shoot out is just not hockey and no barometer on how a team performs or a player or  a goalie.
    Halak didn't stop one puck in the shoot out and everyone is praising him ?  sure he a pretty good game but so was Rask.  Halak got a little lucky with the posts all game long. 
    If anything it should have been a penalty shot for Horton during the game as the hook on him took a away a clear scoring chance and still almost went in.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucicfan. Show lucicfan's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    How many teams who were dead last in scoring made the playoffs? let alone 6th in the EC, that pretty impressive considering this was an injury riddled team. I give CJ a little more respect than most people. I hear alot of complaints about the system, but the system is very effective when the effort is deployed. 2yrs ago the team scored 270+ goals using this system. The system wears teams down and frustrates the he// out of them.

    Claude Julien can be a very stubborn man (4th line & adjusting to the 2man forecheck) but he has also made this team better since his arrival. When the Bruins win the Cup he will play a large part in it. (this year).

    Im definately not a hater.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    It was one of the first times I've seen him hold the players accountable.  Hopefully it helps and continues.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?



    Here's a fact; I don't like him.

    He is a decent NHL coach and he pushes the buttons just like your rank and file coach should.

    But I don't see creativity or any evidence of intelligence.

    Why Ryder in the shootout last night?  I would have put in Horton.  It would appear to me that he had the shootout list made up ahead of time and it didn't matter what happened in the game.

    This team looks like its working harder than it should be.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

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    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts? : Interesting -- I heard a report that Washington had its big guns out on the PP late in the third period of their 7-2 win over Calgary and Sutter was absolutely livid. I like to think that Julien was hoping to get Marchand that cussed first goal, but I think you definitely hit on it, as there were only about two mintues left in the game.  
    Posted by duinne[/QUOTE]

    Yes- Duinne Wash certainly did. It was ALLLLLLL over the radio, TV & newspapers & on the streets! I don't feel sorry for the Flames though, because out of all the NHL arena's I've been too. Flames fans are the most arrogant & classless I've ever experienced! I've had better experiences in Montreal then Calgary. Since I've been here. I've been to 10 Flames games. 3 when the B's were here. They way they treat fans-before, during & after a game is pathetic! I even witnessed them picking on a 6yr old boy that had a Bruin's Jersey on! Next to the Scabs, Calgary IMO & experience are the worst "wagon jumping & degrading fans I've ever witnessed!" They deserve "NOTHING!
    Btw- Yes you're right CJ did do that on in Ottawa game. Gotta give him credit that he doesn't rub salt in the wound in those situations.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    4 to o win, how can he improve on that?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

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    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]Here's a fact; I don't like him. He is a decent NHL coach and he pushes the buttons just like your rank and file coach should. But I don't see creativity or any evidence of intelligence. Why Ryder in the shootout last night?  I would have put in Horton.  It would appear to me that he had the shootout list made up ahead of time and it didn't matter what happened in the game. This team looks like its working harder than it should be.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]


    Oh-yeah ! how bout 2008-09 , or last year when we could have won the cup if Krejci was healthy for the entire series ???

    What are you - some kind of honest intelligent fake fan or something???

    Hater !  Smile
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

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    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts? : Because Ryder played an excellent game and has been shooting very well. They also practice shootouts, and Julien will often go with the hot hand as determined in the days leading up to the game. For all we know, Horton had been floundering in shootout practice and Ryder had been hot as a pistol. This is what I'm talking about when I say we're not privvy to what's going on behind the scenes. Bergeron and Ryder's shots both beat Halak and hit the posts. I can't see how you can blame Julien for that.
    Posted by duinne[/QUOTE]

    Hitting the post isn't "beating" the goalie, while it's true that it is close it is a fact that it's a shot that went wide of the goals - the space />between< the pipes.

    Krecji  - for all we know - could have been white hot in practice, but he didn't participate in the shoot out.  Why?  Because an event in the game rendered him unconscious.  If he were "scheduled" to be in the shoot out, that plan had to be changed.  From what I saw Horton deserved to be in that shoot out.

    I don't recall any other Bruins teams that went on droughts as consistently as CJ's Bruins.  Given a reasonably significant personal change since he first started as coach in 2007 (I count 19 guys not on the team now), I can't blame the players 100% for these droughts.  We've seen it each season he's coached.

    I judge a coach by seeing something innovated going on and how well prepared the team seems.  The first game and the last 2 games Bruins had sluggish first periods at least.  It's a pattern.  The droughts are a pattern.  This team has the talent NOT to have those patterns.  I blame CJ for that.

    I also place the blame on bench minor penalties on the coach.  True, it's the players that mess this up sometimes, but the Bruins were THIRD worst in the league last year for bench minors.

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20102ALLAAAAll&sort=benchPenalties&viewName=penalties

    Lookit the teams who have 9 and more BM penalties.  NOT good company.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    I know you're there but you can't come in . As you are with a very special list of hockey experts like RMiller, bruins8 and his sybil friends, soccerboy , my brother chowda, griswal and many others on my ignore list . Keep trying though and enjoy looking at the teeth while you see CJ behind the bench.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]Here's a fact; I don't like him. He is a decent NHL coach and he pushes the buttons just like your rank and file coach should. But I don't see creativity or any evidence of intelligence. Why Ryder in the shootout last night?  I would have put in Horton.  It would appear to me that he had the shootout list made up ahead of time and it didn't matter what happened in the game. This team looks like its working harder than it should be.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Because Ryder played an excellent game and has been shooting very well. They also practice shootouts, and Julien will often go with the hot hand as determined in the days leading up to the game. For all we know, Horton had been floundering in shootout practice and Ryder had been hot as a pistol. This is what I'm talking about when I say we're not privvy to what's going on behind the scenes.

    Bergeron and Ryder's shots both beat Halak and hit the posts. I can't see how you can blame Julien for that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

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    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]The only reason you saw Thorton-Campbell-Marchand on the game ending PP was because Julien didn't want to embarrass the Sens more than they already had been.  Fans booing, Hab fans chanting ole ole ole ... Why send your number one unit in ?   Sens got the point,  they lost. Remember 2 or 3 seasons ago Bruins were losing to the Habs 4-1 and the Habs got a PP and Carbonneau called a timeout to rest his top players to go out and get more goals on the Bruins ... Julien was Pd because he would never add salt to a wound deliberately. Also Julien tends to reward players, lines that played well and that was sort of a reward to them.  Thorton will repay him for this one day,  he  might not complain for being benched a game needing a goal or he'll sacrifice his hand on Cooke's head .
    Posted by BsLegion[/QUOTE]

    Interesting -- I heard a report that Washington had its big guns out on the PP late in the third period of their 7-2 win over Calgary and Sutter was absolutely livid.

    I like to think that Julien was hoping to get Marchand that cussed first goal, Winkbut I think you definitely hit on it, as there were only about two mintues left in the game.

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teddytheo. Show Teddytheo's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    Hockey needs to be entertaining as well. Julien hockey = sleeping pill.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    The only reason you saw Thorton-Campbell-Marchand on the game ending PP was because Julien didn't want to embarrass the Sens more than they already had been.  Fans booing, Hab fans chanting ole ole ole ...
    Why send your number one unit in ?   Sens got the point,  they lost.
    Remember 2 or 3 seasons ago Bruins were losing to the Habs 4-1 and the Habs got a PP and Carbonneau called a timeout to rest his top players to go out and get more goals on the Bruins ... Julien was Pd because he would never add salt to a wound deliberately.
    Also Julien tends to reward players, lines that played well and that was sort of a reward to them.  Thorton will repay him for this one day,  he  might not complain for being benched a game needing a goal or he'll sacrifice his hand on Cooke's head .
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

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    In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts? : Hitting the post isn't "beating" the goalie, while it's true that it is close it is a fact that it's a shot that went wide of the goals - the space />between< the pipes. Krecji  - for all we know - could have been white hot in practice, but he didn't participate in the shoot out.  Why?  Because an event in the game rendered him unconscious.  If he were "scheduled" to be in the shoot out, that plan had to be changed.  From what I saw Horton deserved to be in that shoot out. I don't recall any other Bruins teams that went on droughts as consistently as CJ's Bruins.  Given a reasonably significant personal change since he first started as coach in 2007 (I count 19 guys not on the team now), I can't blame the players 100% for these droughts.  We've seen it each season he's coached. I judge a coach by seeing something innovated going on and how well prepared the team seems.  The first game and the last 2 games Bruins had sluggish first periods at least.  It's a pattern.  The droughts are a pattern.  This team has the talent NOT to have those patterns.  I blame CJ for that. I also place the blame on bench minor penalties on the coach.  True, it's the players that mess this up sometimes, but the Bruins were THIRD worst in the league last year for bench minors. http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20102ALLAAAAll&sort=benchPenalties&viewName=penalties Lookit the teams who have 9 and more BM penalties.  NOT good company.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]
    I also blame the coach when your team gets scored on in the last minute of a period, and worse, in the last few seconds of a game.  Oh right, both happened in the same game!  Don't they practice situational hockey?

    And then you have your two most dangerous players that game (Kulemin and Grabovski) and they don't even get asked to perform in the shootout.     

    Oh sorry.......I thought we were talking about Wilson.  I don't like CJ much, but I'd definitely take him order Wilson at this point.

    First time this year I was really p#$@S at the Leafs, absolutely pathetic shoot-out team.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    I think Julien did a better job last night. He shortened the bench then mixed lines well. Ryder got the assist on the Campbell goal thoughts ? (bump)
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Julen Haters: What are the facts?

    As I just posted in another thread, CJ is a very good coach when it comes to defensive play.  Offensively, ahhhhhhh NA, the new NHL demands defensive play to gain points especially missing important playmaking centers.   A structured system is fine when you have top notch scorers or playmakers.  The injury list includes those players.  The only hope is this years additions can rise to the occasion.  He will have to play younger players even if there play is off. Thank good Whitfield is not available, opps McGratton!  
     

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