Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Makes me feel better about the Bruins contracts.  Bergeron @ $6.5M per year vs Toews @ $10.5M? 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Toews is a little better as a player but not 4M better

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Obviously the Blackhawks feel that number would only get higher if both hit the open market.

    Validates those who suggested DK could command 7 or 8 on the open market.  A good season next year, and he can get 7 in his sleep.  A career year, and who knows how much.

    The cap won't keep going up into infinity.  Things will get dicey for many teams.  One of the bad things about a Cap league...is that the business aspect of things, can easily be the story, over the actual games.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Many pundits would suggest Crosby is at a level substantially higher than these 2.  I can't imagine him getting a deal for any more than 12 per.  There's going to be a lot of players looking for around 9 on their next deal.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to stevegm's comment:[QUOTE] Validates those who suggested DK could command 7 or 8 on the open market.  A good season next year, and he can get 7 in his sleep.  A career year, and who knows how much. [/QUOTE]



    Correct Krejci will not stay under $7M when he hits the market or when PC starts extension negotiations. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    A vindication for JJ/PC as they constructed the contracts including Rask over the past few years. Since I have relegated to fanboy by BB (Bookboy not Bill Belichick...although he thinks he is a hockey guru) I will say the Cap management by PC is excellent. What do you posters do as arm chair GMs, Toews or Kane? I would trade Marchand on steroids.....Kane!

    "Don't judge me monkey" 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Doesn’t change anything for them this year, unless they start making moves to accommodate the signings now. Next year, Saad’s EL is up, so replacing Sharp with him will be less of a savings if he has a 20+ goal, 50+ point season next year. So you might save $3-$4M with that move. Seabrook seems like he’s a sure bet to be gone because he’s a UFA the following year and there’s no money for him – I’m sure that’s what he’s thinking today, and if I was a Hawks beat reporter, I’d be calling him. Oduya and Rozsival are both UFA next year, and Leddy is RFA, so they’ll have to find money for them or move on, making the loss of Seabrook that much more painful. They do have some prospects in Rockford, though, who could basically do for them what the Jr Bs did in Boston. Clendening led Rockford in scoring as a D with 59 points in 74 games, and Dahlbeck had 10 goals. I desperately want to laugh at Clendining for being a sub-6’, sub-200lbs NCAA defenseman. Dylan Fournier and Dahlstrom are both more recent draftees who could play a role in 2015-16, possibly. The only real challenge here is that none of their veteran D who will be under contract (assuming Seabrook is dealt) are Chara. Keith’s great, but what he does to anchor a D is not what Chara does. Hjalmarsson is a #3 at best.

    I’m also not sure dealing Sharp and Seabrook brings back the “haul” shupe predicts. Again, Seabrook will be a UFA the following year, so how much will anyone give for him knowing he could be a rental? Going rate for star players is a 2nd line young player, a first rounder, and a mid-to-high level prospect. More or less. Not going to stuff the hole Sharp will leave. Hossa’s getting older as you can tell by his persistent injuries. They are going to need guys to step up and take on top 6 ice alongside Kane and Toews, and I don’t think Kane will ever again have the luxury of being a 23 goal scorer and 66 point man in a full season.

    Honestly, I think the deals are terrible. Great players. But neither of them even led the team in scoring this year, and Kane was just barely in the top 20 scorers, though he was at a point/game pace. This is a huuuuuuuge premium for past playoff performances.

    -Bookboy, Hockey Guru

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Chicago needs the cap to go up for this to work, of course. But they did this once before as you all recall. They jettisoned a bunch of guys after the 2010 cup and reloaded and came back and won another cup in a short time. It worked then because they reasonably priced replacements largely outperformed their contracts and a few of their prospects developed in to quality NHL guys. As book noted, EL deals expire and combined with the Toews and Kane contracts they could be in cap jail after this season. So it could be 2010 redux. Win the cup this coming season, ship some guys out and reload with hopefully the same result as last time and be a cup favorite in another 2-4 years. As long as they have Toews, Kane, Keith, Crawford, and a couple other nice pieces they are right there. They have to backfill around those guys with affordable players. 

    The key is to draft well and they have done pretty well. This is the difference between Boston and Chicago. The drafts have not been so great here and your reasonably priced guys aren't quite reasonably priced enough and you are up against the cap ceiling with no cheap fixes coming up from providence. I could be wrong about that last part. Maybe Spoons and Fraser and Florek and Koko all turn in to NHLers and key pieces of a cup win. This is the season that Boston either looks like Chicago or takes a step backwards.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Hawks had no choice....  and the day they put these guys up for trade, if that ever happens, there won't be a shortage of teams willing to take on those contracts....

    these two have delivered the goods thus far and no reason to believe they won't continue to do so....

    “People think common sense is common - but it's not.”


     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Bad deals.  I get keeping them together but thats way too much chedda.  

    Book- if Seabrook were traded right now he brings back a pick, a player and a prospect.  The Oilers would do flips.   If Nisk and Orpik are getting these pay days guess what hes gonna get on the open market.   Which as you say could hurt them.  But it would be better to deal him now then after the season starts.  If Detroit offered a guy like Tatar, a prospect from their good players and a pick i think thats a win for both teams.   

    Sharp wont bring that in but he will bring back a decent player who's under a decent contract and likely young.  Say Ottawa for Zack Smith Greening as been rumored...

    i think it feeds Chicago in a good way.  Cost efficient young players with some talent.  To replace an aging Sharp and a dman they may not be able to sign.  I wouldnt worry that much about Chicago.  They won, blew it up....kept the core....won the cup.  Signed the core.  Have young guys already in the system.  

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    Anyone think that Kane & Toews were underpaid?  This guy does...

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/jonathan-toews-and-patrick-kane-are-rich-but-they-could-have-been-richer/

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beezfan4life. Show Beezfan4life's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Dk and JB arent in either of their class but will get a big raise.  Chicago has the ability to dump a Sharp abd replace with Saad.  Shaw and Kruger are battle tested as well.  They are 5 deep on the back end and could easily deal a guy like Seabrook.  Keeping Toews and Kane wont be that hard.  Imagine the young talent they can get for Sharp and one of their dmen   They could essentially deal Sharp and Seabrook to create cap space and get a truck load of young players back.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Just gonna getcha to go ahead and tell me why you think DK isn't in the same class as those 2 .... Excluding this past playoff , think back to last years playoff , and the year Boston won the cup , who was the playoff leader in scoring those 2 years.....and what happened to Boston in The Philly series , when Krejci went down ? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    I think these signings point to some troublesome times not too far down the road.  That could be because I'm entering that crotchety 50 something demo, or even more frighteningly, I'm catching on.

    The Cap won't keep going up.  Nothing does.  Many teams are nearing max out status, meaning their revenue streams can't afford many more price increases.  For every team like Florida, that can grow sales through ticket prices...there's a fickle market like Boston, that will see ticket revenue plummet, as soon as they're non Cup contenders.  TV is the money that's driving the growth of major league sports, and that's peaked too.

    Couple that, with an up and down economy for several years ahead, and the Cap is most definitely going to take a hit.  Teams like Boston are the first ones to take it on the chin.

    Personally, I hate the major Junior business model where everyone gets their turn, and inevitably, that's what the Cap will turn the  NHL into.  Pretty hard for me to have much skin in that scenario.  I couldn't help get a kick out of Harold Ballard, the business tycoon, but I hated Pal Hal, the hockey executive.  The Cap league validated the Ballards, and neutered those that placed winning above the bottom line.  Worse, no middle ground was left  between center ice, and the accountants office. 

    It's really now about the business of hockey, more than the game of hockey, and it will become more so.

    Although I enjoy both, the game is much more of a passion for me, and the core reason I follow along.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    The Kane deal is horrible. Horrible. Highest paid nhl winger has never scored more than 30, and hit that total only once. When his deal kicks in it will take up roughly 15% of the upper limit. That is absolutely horrible

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Kane deal is horrible. Horrible. Highest paid nhl winger has never scored more than 30, and hit that total only once. When his deal kicks in it will take up roughly 15% of the upper limit. That is absolutely horrible

    [/QUOTE]

    Phil Kessel has cracked 30 goals 5 times. I'd argue Kane is a better player.

    This isn't just about goals. OT in a playoff game. I'm picking Patrick Kane on my team over any other player in the NHL.




     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    I think that's the math, kel: Kane gets Kessel + Playoff Hero = $10.5M

    Again, heck of a premium considering there were more than a few players who had to carry the mail to put him in the situation where he could score those goals.  Players they won't have next year.

      Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think these signings point to some troublesome times not too far down the road.  That could be because I'm entering that crotchety 50 something demo, or even more frighteningly, I'm catching on.

    The Cap won't keep going up.  Nothing does.  Many teams are nearing max out status, meaning their revenue streams can't afford many more price increases.  For every team like Florida, that can grow sales through ticket prices...there's a fickle market like Boston, that will see ticket revenue plummet, as soon as they're non Cup contenders.  TV is the money that's driving the growth of major league sports, and that's peaked too.

    Couple that, with an up and down economy for several years ahead, and the Cap is most definitely going to take a hit.  Teams like Boston are the first ones to take it on the chin.

    Personally, I hate the major Junior business model where everyone gets their turn, and inevitably, that's what the Cap will turn the  NHL into.  Pretty hard for me to have much skin in that scenario.  I couldn't help get a kick out of Harold Ballard, the business tycoon, but I hated Pal Hal, the hockey executive.  The Cap league validated the Ballards, and neutered those that placed winning above the bottom line.  Worse, no middle ground was left  between center ice, and the accountants office. 

    It's really now about the business of hockey, more than the game of hockey, and it will become more so.

    Although I enjoy both, the game is much more of a passion for me, and the core reason I follow along.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Great post steve, buuuuut lol.........I don't want to get in to a long economics debate but I'll say I disagree with this part of your post. The sports economy and the general economy are not ever in lock-step. The cap can, and does go up while the economy is not. I also wouldn't say the economy is going to be up and down over the next few years. My personal economist friends all tell me it's more like growing in fits and starts but without any appreciable backsliding. So while the cap isn't likely to rise much over then next few years I believe it will go up. Enough to absorb a pair of $10.5m contracts and allow you to fill out the rest of the roster the way you would like? Nope. Chicago is going to have to get very creative and lucky with their drafts and prospects contributing at a high level for small money.

    Cheers.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Personally, I hate the major Junior business model where everyone gets their turn, and inevitably, that's what the Cap will turn the  NHL into.  reason I follow along.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Personally I like it. The pre-cap NHL was just dumb...MLBish. Those who spent the most won. Vets who should have retired years ago were getting $3mill and more to play on the 4t line. It was insanity. Now, we still have insanity, just a little more even playing field.

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Kane deal is horrible. Horrible. Highest paid nhl winger has never scored more than 30, and hit that total only once. When his deal kicks in it will take up roughly 15% of the upper limit. That is absolutely horrible

    [/QUOTE]

    Phil Kessel has cracked 30 goals 5 times. I'd argue Kane is a better player.

    This isn't just about goals. OT in a playoff game. I'm picking Patrick Kane on my team over any other player in the NHL.




     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not just talking about goals, he's an offensive winger. His numbers with a Bergeron like defensive contribution to the game could warrant his contract, his play doesn't. L

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from btrentor. Show btrentor's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    When you consider that paid bi-weekly they will be cashing over $400,000 per paycheck it makes you realize why some players nowadays are starting to act like idiots.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Kane/Toews Ask for $12mill per season!!

    In response to btrentor's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When you consider that paid bi-weekly they will be cashing over $400,000 per paycheck it makes you realize why some players nowadays are starting to act like idiots.

    [/QUOTE]


    I probably would act like an idiot too if I was paid that much. Actually even that annually would likely do it. Hell, who am I kidding...I don't need money to act like an idiot.

     

     

     
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