Marchand or agent?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnnybruin. Show Johnnybruin's posts

    Marchand or agent?

     I'm really not liking what I've been reading so far on this Marchand fiasco.
    For us Bruin fans to even be asking if it's the agents fault that he is not signed yet lets me believe how naive we are! The agent is there for his client's best interest so Marchand is asking for a particular number that Chiarelli doesn't like so what are we supposed to think? Personally who cares how much room the Bruins have in cap space, NO ONE IS ABOVE THE TEAM! So far Chiarelli has brought us not only to the promised land but he has put us in a position to win again! No other general manager has ever done this in my life time ( I'm 41) so if Chiarelli thinks it's too much then i agree with him. If he wants to sit out this year, so be it! Bruin fans don't get suckered in that without him we won't win cause we will just give another good prospect a chance to prove himself just like Marchand did. BTW I really like Marchand but In Chiarelli we trust!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    Agree. If PC wanted to overpay, he could likely get Brad Boyes from Buffalo (that's a bad comparison, I know.)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    It's true that an agent should be out for whats best for his client, but that agent should also be realistic . Unless Arnott can dupe some team into overpaying for Marchand, as he did with Kessel, then i think he has backed himself into a corner. I don't think the B's success this season hinges on whether Brad Marchand plays for them or not.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    The agent ultimatley works for the player. I hate holdouts. They always end up signing, missing camp and eventually getting injured.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    Agents aren't like Public Defenders.  They aren't assigned and you get what you get.  They also don't work independently.  They have plenty of ideas of what their clients want and then try to get that...or more.

    To blame the agent is foolish.  The player hired him.  If they player wanted to, the agent could be replaced.


    The guilty party here is no one but Brad Marchand.  One thing that is great is that we all know it isn't Chiarelli.  He's been more than fair with just about everyone.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoyalBlackNGold. Show LoyalBlackNGold's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]Agents aren't like Public Defenders.  They aren't assigned and you get what you get.  They also don't work independently.  They have plenty of ideas of what their clients want and then try to get that...or more. To blame the agent is foolish.  The player hired him.  If they player wanted to, the agent could be replaced. The guilty party here is no one but Brad Marchand. One thing that is great is that we all know it isn't Chiarelli.  He's been more than fair with just about everyone.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    nas i didnt really think of this end of it til u mentioned it. if anything chiarellis most quiltyest for signing his guys to fair market value or above right? im racking my brain trying to think of a guy who after chairelli signed him the general concenus was the that chiarelli stole him or got the player cheap.

    thomas^
    chara^
    ference^
    boychuk-                         ^=above market value
    seindenberg-                     -=market value
    mcquiad-
    savard^
    bergeron^
    lucic^
    krejci^
    recchi-
    ryder^
    thornton-
    paille-

    its probably fair to say its not chiarellis purse stings holding this up!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    It is good to be a Bruins fan knowing that the GM right now is both competent and fair.  I don't think you can dismiss the role of the agent though. I deal frequently in negotiations and you often lean heavily on your hired advisors. Most players aren't business men (few have been to University and most had a high school career that was a distant second to playing 70 games for semi-pro major junior).  I think the players often hire an agent they trust and tell them to get them as much money as possible.  The agent then does the work and makes a stance on how much they will demand.  We have seen many players fire their agent after negotiations stalled or went sour - it wasn't the players decision to dig in their heals, it was the agent's tactic.  We have seen that right up to the NHLPA level with Bob Goodenow leading all of the players in foolishly trying to fight a cap.  In the Marchand case however, I think it's just a confident young player with a tough agent trying to get as much money as possible.  Why wouldn't they?  At this point it's costing Marchand nothing to wait to sign.  If it was mid-October you could start asking questions as to their strategy, but as of right now they would be foolish to sign unless PC blew them away with an offer.  This is much about nothing.

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]Agents aren't like Public Defenders.  They aren't assigned and you get what you get.  They also don't work independently.  They have plenty of ideas of what their clients want and then try to get that...or more. To blame the agent is foolish.  The player hired him.  If they player wanted to, the agent could be replaced. The guilty party here is no one but Brad Marchand.  One thing that is great is that we all know it isn't Chiarelli.  He's been more than fair with just about everyone.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    I do feel that the player should try to get as much money as possible, but blaming the agent is crazy.  The agent's job is to negotiate, not make the final decision.  It's the second week in September.  Preseason games start in two weeks.  If Marchand wanted to accept fair value for his play, he'd tell his agent to accept whatever the Bruins offer is.  Chiarelli is known for offering fair value.

    A rookie player coming off an entry level deal with one year of NHL experience has no leverage.  He needs to accept that fact and sign whatever fair deal the B's are offering to him.  Sign a three year deal, establish yourself, then make your demands.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoyalBlackNGold. Show LoyalBlackNGold's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]It is good to be a Bruins fan knowing that the GM right now is both competent and fair.  I don't think you can dismiss the role of the agent though. I deal frequently in negotiations and you often lean heavily on your hired advisors. Most players aren't business men (few have been to University and most had a high school career that was a distant second to playing 70 games for semi-pro major junior).  I think the players often hire an agent they trust and tell them to get them as much money as possible.  The agent then does the work and makes a stance on how much they will demand.  We have seen many players fire their agent after negotiations stalled or went sour - it wasn't the players decision to dig in their heals, it was the agent's tactic.  We have seen that right up to the NHLPA level with Bob Goodenow leading all of the players in foolishly trying to fight a cap.  In the Marchand case however, I think it's just a confident young player with a tough agent trying to get as much money as possible.  Why wouldn't they?  At this point it's costing Marchand nothing to wait to sign.  If it was mid-October you could start asking questions as to their strategy, but as of right now they would be foolish to sign unless PC blew them away with an offer.  This is much about nothing. In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    great post oates, when marchand officially holds out and misses practices to prepare for upcoming defense of the Stanley cup(sorry that still sounds cool to me "defending Stanley cup champs") then it will be time to worry about the negotiations between chiarelli and marchands reps.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    Interesting that some of the most knowledgeable posters here, have such limited views on what an Agent can do and influence. Some Agents are schmoozing prospects and prospects parents from age 14/15 and up. It is not that much different from some af the actions of football "boosters"[ case in point Miami and Ohio State]. Some of our posters, [ Mean E] have been critical of Marchand for his immature celebrations, and Marchand has acknowledged that he "probably" went too far. How can you expect an immature, unsophisticated, young person to "manage" negotiations for a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract? Arnott is the " knowledgeable" resource who has established the game plan that Chiarelli has not accepted. Sure Marchand can hire and fire, but does anyone here beleive he has the knowledge to make that decision??? Arnott has a responsibility to determine Marchand's true value; to understand the bruins financial parameters; and to "guide" his client to a successful contract. Going for broke, or for all he could possibly get, are not the guidelines of a "GOOD" Agent.Arnott should have told Marchand that the Bruins would most probably want a deal for $1.75-$2.0 million, but they should put in a proposal for $3.0 and settle on $ 2.5 million. Anything more was blowing smoke in Marchand's ear.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    Yes, NAS, this situation can be clearly placed on Marchand's lap.

    But, I have one thing to say to both Marchand, Arnott and other posters here:

    We weren't supposed to win the Cup without Savard. It will be somewhat easier to win without Marchand.

    Bottom line, period. Over and out. Roger. If he doesn't sign within the next 7 days - get rid of him. No bull. We don't need him!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    I think Arnott is as greasy as they come! I do however blame Brad here as well. He's the one that still holds the power! If he truly wants to be Bruin; then he just has to tell Arnott to make it happen. It's not complicated. Marchand doesn't have to be a genius to figure it out!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Johnnybruin. Show Johnnybruin's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]Yes, NAS, this situation can be clearly placed on Marchand's lap. But, I have one thing to say to both Marchand, Arnott and other posters here: We weren't supposed to win the Cup without Savard. It will be somewhat easier to win without Marchand. Bottom line, period. Over and out. Roger. If he doesn't sign within the next 7 days - get rid of him. No bull. We don't need him!
    Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]

    I like what i'm reading from us fans! Marchand you either sign by next Friday or you will lose your place as a Bruin favourite. We will soon find out what drives Marchand to play, money or winning!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]Interesting that some of the most knowledgeable posters here, have such limited views on what an Agent can do and influence. Some Agents are schmoozing prospects and prospects parents from age 14/15 and up. It is not that much different from some af the actions of football "boosters"[ case in point Miami and Ohio State]. Some of our posters, [ Mean E] have been critical of Marchand for his immature celebrations, and Marchand has acknowledged that he "probably" went too far. How can you expect an immature, unsophisticated, young person to "manage" negotiations for a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract? Arnott is the " knowledgeable" resource who has established the game plan that Chiarelli has not accepted. Sure Marchand can hire and fire, but does anyone here beleive he has the knowledge to make that decision??? Arnott has a responsibility to determine Marchand's true value; to understand the bruins financial parameters; and to "guide" his client to a successful contract. Going for broke, or for all he could possibly get, are not the guidelines of a "GOOD" Agent.Arnott should have told Marchand that the Bruins would most probably want a deal for $1.75-$2.0 million, but they should put in a proposal for $3.0 and settle on $ 2.5 million. Anything more was blowing smoke in Marchand's ear.
    Posted by bogie6[/QUOTE]

    I agree Bogie, but the fact is Marchand has had a great first year.  He is not worth in sacle the contracts signed the last few years like Thomas, Krejci, Chara, and Bergeron.  He needs to play hockey a couple more years. A 20 something knows that simple truth.  As for PC, he knows the market, cap restrictions in the coming years, and knows the potential playmaking of Marchand.  Marchand's agent knows the same.  If his agent is playing roulette, Marchand will lose.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? : I agree Bogie, but the fact is Marchand has had a great first year.  He is not worth in sacle the contracts signed the last few years like Thomas, Krejci, Chara, and Bergeron.  He needs to play hockey a couple more years. A 20 something knows that simple truth.  As for PC, he knows the market, cap restrictions in the coming years, and knows the potential playmaking of Marchand.  Marchand's agent knows the same.  If his agent is playing roulette, Marchand will lose.  
    Posted by islamorada[/QUOTE]

    And he deserves to!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? : And he deserves to!!
    Posted by nitemare-38[/QUOTE]
    Nite, for all we know PC might be offering less than 1.5$. All we know for sure is that PC gave him his qualifying offer. I have faith in PC and Marchand working out a deal that's good for the organization and Brad. To tell you the truth, I was far more anxious last year at this time waiting to see if PC could get Zee and Patrice extended. Mission accomplished. I now expect positive results every year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    I don't know why you would trade a valuable player because he doesn't sign on time.  All I care about is that he is in the lineup for the playoffs.  Doughty hasn't signed yet.  Should the Kings be looking to trade him?  Some team out there could pick up some good players traded under pressure if the Kings and Bruins followed that strategy.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]I don't know why you would trade a valuable player because he doesn't sign on time.  All I care about is that he is in the lineup for the playoffs.  Doughty hasn't signed yet.  Should the Kings be looking to trade him?  Some team out there could pick up some good players traded under pressure if the Kings and Bruins followed that strategy.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    Adding Doughty to a Marchand conversation is as relevant as adding Aurel Joliet.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    Bringing up another unsigned young RFA in a conversation about a player being an unsigned RFA is hardly irrelevant.  Strange that you are unable to make that connection.

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? : Adding Doughty to a Marchand conversation is as relevant as adding Aurel Joliet.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]Bringing up another unsigned young RFA in a conversation about a player being an unsigned RFA is hardly irrelevant.  Strange that you are unable to make that connection. In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    Bringing up Norris Trophy finalist in a conversation about a rookie pest seems hardly relevant.  Strange that you were able to make that connection.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? : Bringing up Norris Trophy finalist in a conversation about a rookie pest seems hardly relevant.  Strange that you were able to make that connection.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Dismissively referring to a player who scored 21 goals on the second line in the regular season as well as 11 goals and 19 points in 25 playoff games for a Stanley Cup Champion. including 2 in Game 7 of the Finals as, " a rookie pest " is pretty close to disingenuous.

    I suppose Ken Dryden in 1971 was, "a rookie tall guy."
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    Sox, it was intentionally dismissive.  It's the opposite of putting Marchand and Doughty in the same category because they are both unsigned RFAs.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? : Dismissively referring to a player who scored 21 goals on the second line in the regular season as well as 11 goals and 19 points in 25 playoff games for a Stanley Cup Champion. including 2 in Game 7 of the Finals as, " a rookie pest " is pretty close to disingenuous. I suppose Ken Dryden in 1971 was, "a rookie tall guy."
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    Ken Dryden?

    Brad Marchand is extremely expendable. I'm not saying that the Bruins should dump him, but if he becomes more trouble than he's worth attempting to sign AND they find an offer where they get value that helps the team, see ya later.

    Drew Doughty is already a Norris Trophy Finalist. Those guys are far less expendable than a 2nd-line pest who put in 20 goals last year. The Kings, if they're smart, will wait it out with Doughty a lot longer because they know in the NHL, top-pairing defensemen are a lot harder to come by than 2nd-line 20-goal scoring pests like Marchand.

    NAS is right....the only thing these situations have in common is that both players are young RFAs. After that, the circumstances differ significantly. It'll be a heck of a lot easier for the Bruins to make a trade that gets them a fair return for Marchand than it will be for the Kings to do the same for Doughty (where it will be almost impossible).
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsIn4. Show BruinsIn4's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    I think the point was that the player ought to be shopped in trade talks if he doesn't sign by the start of training camp.  I have no problems with shopping BM if he's not in camp - but it hurts to lose a top six forward over money.  That would be worst-case.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Marchand or agent?

    NAS is not right because he said they have nothing in common.  I am right because I said what they have in common is they are young RFA's. I was simply stating that it's a poor way to build a franchise if you trade players every time they try to get as much money as they can.  It's not a unique situation, there are other players without arbitration rights around the league trying to get more money the only way they can.  Marchand isn't some awful team wrecker for doing this.  You shouldn't deal a player for that reason, but only if the trade would make your team better.  NAS seems to follow my posts with unsupported, unnecessary derogatory comments.  Not quite sure why, perhaps to make himself feel intelligent?

    In Response to Re: Marchand or agent?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marchand or agent? : Ken Dryden? Brad Marchand is extremely expendable. I'm not saying that the Bruins should dump him, but if he becomes more trouble than he's worth attempting to sign AND they find an offer where they get value that helps the team, see ya later. Drew Doughty is already a Norris Trophy Finalist. Those guys are far less expendable than a 2nd-line pest who put in 20 goals last year. The Kings, if they're smart, will wait it out with Doughty a lot longer because they know in the NHL, top-pairing defensemen are a lot harder to come by than 2nd-line 20-goal scoring pests like Marchand. NAS is right....the only thing these situations have in common is that both players are young RFAs. After that, the circumstances differ significantly. It'll be a heck of a lot easier for the Bruins to make a trade that gets them a fair return for Marchand than it will be for the Kings to do the same for Doughty (where it will be almost impossible).
    Posted by Kennedy97[/QUOTE]
     
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