Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    To me this is the argument ender as far as the Chara hit goes. The argument is always "Chara intended to do it, he knew the stanchion was there and rode MP into it so MP would hit his head"...

    During the same game Travis Moen while forechecking skated into the Bruins net. His shoulder hit the right post, knocking the net off of its moorings and hurting his shoulder at the time...Now, not every rink has the stanchions that MP went into in the same place, in fact some are covered...But in every hockey rink, all over the world, the hockey nets are in the same place, yet a player still accidently skated into one. The game happens so fast, sometimes for a split second, a player can foget where he is. I've seen off-sides called on a 2 on 1 rush.

    As for the bieska hit, I find it hard to beleive Bieksa told himself heres my chance to knock Horton out for the series. I think he intended to lay him out, went too high and paid the price. end of story.

    Now watch a player like Ovechkin, who comes after the defenseman he is forechecking with his knee out. Now that is intent.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    kel, I think you mean Rome.

    Ive never blamed Max for the hit.  I dont buy the "blame the victim" mentality when a player is no longer holding the puck. When a guy is stickhanding with his head down, I blame the victim because he HAS to keep his head up. When a player like Horton or Max no longer has the puck, I do not blame them at all for getting hit.

    I characterize the Chara hit as an illegal interference for hitting the man without the puck. It was at full speed with the biggest man in the NHL vs a flying Frenchman (from CT). This can an will cause damage. Chara received a correct interference penalty, which was upped to a major because an injury resulted.

    However, in my 3 decades of playing Ive never known a player who is able to pick out a spot on the boards, AKA the stanchion, otherwise known as a LEGAL place to hit someone and be held responsible for causing an injury. Its ludicrous.

    As kel said, at speed players run into the net, each other... all the time.  Chara can steer max into the stanchion at speed at a blink of an eye?  Idiotic.

    Its equally ludicrous to compare it to the Rome hit, which in fact was a high, late hit to the head.  I dont know if Rome was trying to do that kind of damage, but he certainly hit a man in open ice who was looking the other way after a pass. Scream "keep your head up" all you like, but no one deserves a leap to the head at any time.

    To try to compare these hits its stupid.  To try to pass off everyone's disagreement because we are "all homers" is not only childish and immature, its pretty predictable lately from people wearing that little hockey stick in the rink logo.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ronstar8. Show Ronstar8's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]kel, I think you mean Rome. Ive never blamed Max for the hit.  I dont buy the "blame the victim" mentality when a player is no longer holding the puck. When a guy is stickhanding with his head down, I blame the victim because he HAS to keep his head up. When a player like Horton or Max no longer has the puck, I do not blame them at all for getting hit. I characterize the Chara hit as an illegal interference for hitting the man without the puck. It was at full speed with the biggest man in the NHL vs a flying Frenchman (from CT). This can an will cause damage. Chara received a correct interference penalty, which was upped to a major because an injury resulted. However, in my 3 decades of playing Ive never known a player who is able to pick out a spot on the boards, AKA the stanchion, otherwise known as a LEGAL place to hit someone and be held responsible for causing an injury. Its ludicrous. As kel said, at speed players run into the net, each other... all the time.  Chara can steer max into the stanchion at speed at a blink of an eye?  Idiotic. Its equally ludicrous to compare it to the Rome hit, which in fact was a high, late hit to the head.  I dont know if Rome was trying to do that kind of damage, but he certainly hit a man in open ice who was looking the other way after a pass. Scream "keep your head up" all you like, but no one deserves a leap to the head at any time. To try to compare these hits its stupid.  To try to pass off everyone's disagreement because we are "all homers" is not only childish and immature, its pretty predictable lately from people wearing that little hockey stick in the rink logo.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    Good post, Sox. Really well said.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jalvis. Show jalvis's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]Regardless of the argument about the NHL's interpretation of the hit, I think it's ridiculous that the police and crown attorneys have gotten involved.  I didn't agree with it on the Bertuzzi case, the McSorley case, and I dont' agree with it in the Chara case.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    The Chara incident was a "hit".  McSorley and Bertuzzi were assaults.  Heck, Bertuzzi chased Moore down to do it.  You could argue that it was premeditated.  Completely apples to oranges to the Chara hit.  I had no problem with Chara getting the 5min penalty and game misconduct.  I might have had begrudgingly accepted a fine for Chara.  But suspension?  No.  And legal action?  No freakin' way!!!!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    Not trying to blame the victim in the MP incident, but 49 is missing my point, which is actually quite rational and has nothing to do with homerism.  Any argument that asserts Chara "has to know where the stanchion is" has to extend to MP as well - if you think it matters that one player should know where the stanchion is, then rationally, all players have to know where they are on the ice (speed of the game not withstanding).  So the question of whether Chara knew where the stanchion was or not is pointless, but it's one of the foundational elements of any case attempting to prove Chara had intent.  It matters here that neither Chara's body nor his equipment would have caused any damage to MP if not for that stanchion.  This is not the same as the usual "he should have kept his head up" position that 49 drags up here.  It is, again, completely different.

    And if you think it's ridiculous to say a player has a responsibility in that situation, the NHL rules are quite clear about responsibility for controling your stick in any situation.  You get tripped, flipped, and clip a guy in the head, you're off the ice.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbruin4. Show mrbruin4's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Shut up the canadian.  I'm a Quebecois bruins fan for more than 40 years. A## yourself. A damn racist like you should not call himself mrbruin4. Talk hockey or shut up.
    Posted by NorthBruins[/QUOTE]

    Then you must be one of the minority. A bruin fan in Quebec to boot.  You must clearly see the investigation is  pure  hab BS at its best and makes canada look foolish especially montreal.
    ps a rasist I am not
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    The facts and nothing but the facts.  And what can you conclude?

    Was there noteworthy hostility between the players in previous games?
    Yes

    Was there noteworthy hostility between the players during that particular game?
    No.

    Did Chara have motive?
    Yes. 

    Is it possible that one player could intentionally ride another into the stanchion?
    Yes.

    Have there been other incidents where one player intentionally injurred another by riding the other player into the stanchion?
    No (none that I could find)

    Note:  A stanchion of one kind or another has been in existence since at least 1899 per my research.  Check this early photo of a rink in Montreal, the posts that support the roof also support the side boards, there are 14 posts.
    http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2009/6/20/919690/a-history-of-the-montreal

    Note: Hockey has had a lot of violence since its earliest history.  Before they had full size boards players would inevidibly fall into the crowd and visiting team players were often roughed up before being returned to the ice.  And stick swinging incidents have been recorded from very early in hockey history.

    Note: 
    112 years of hockey and there is no history of a tactic of intentionally ramming other players into the stanchions in order to cause injury.  In contrast the tactic of intentionally using the boards to injure a player is well known as "boarding" and has been a penalty practically since full size boards became standard.

    Note:  Many retired players have 'confessed' their 'dirty tricks'.  For example Johnny Bower admitted to intentionally tripping players with his goalie stick and making it look accidental.  Players have admitted they intentionally hit maskless goalies in the face or speared or butt ended.  No player to my knowledge has ever admitted that they intnetionally would ride players into the stanchions.

    Could Chara have premeditated this particular action previous to the game?
    No.

    Could Chara have premeditated this particular action in the instant before the hit?
    Yes.

    Did Chara intend to injure Max Pac?
    Possible.

    Can Chara's intent be proven?
    No.

    Were Chara's action CERTAIN to cause Max Pac an injury?
    No.
    Note: There are hundreds of examples of players being ridden into the stanchion and colliding violently with no grievous injury done.

    Did Chara have other opportunities to injure Max Pac?
    Yes.

    Did Chara make physical contact with Max at other times in the game?
    Yes.

    When Chara made physical contact with Max at other points in the game, were they overly aggressive or unusual in any way?
    No.

    Are there unintended and incidental injuries in hockey?
    Yes.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    BadHab, take you facts and reason somewhere else.
    It is not required here.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CactusTonyo. Show CactusTonyo's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    you really really have nothing more interesting to talk about?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CactusTonyo. Show CactusTonyo's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    talking about montreal and vancouver all summer long.....boring .get a life!.. have a nice week end

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from misterpaulo. Show misterpaulo's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    I'm jealous.  Hab fans not only had ALL of the the summer to talk about meaningless crap, they had the majority of the spring as well.   
    So B's fans have some catching up to do and when your the Champs you can talk about anything you want.  Cup tours, Celebration bar tabs, defending the title, how a couple of the teams on your way to glory have fans who tend to riot when things don't go their way, etc. 

    Ole eh-hole.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]BadHab, take you facts and reason somewhere else. It is not required here.
    Posted by seobrien[/QUOTE]

    Why?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CactusTonyo. Show CactusTonyo's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    Only cuz you're saying the truth and they don't like it when it does'nt go their way....:)

    Typical here...my friend!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from habsno17. Show habsno17's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]Only cuz you're saying the truth and they don't like it when it does'nt go their way....:) Typical here...my friend!
    Posted by CactusTonyo[/QUOTE]

    Your 3 replys in this thread all say the same thing pretty much, that we shouldnt waste our time with this boring, meaningless thread. A thread you replied to 3 times.
    Again, replied 3 times. To a "boring" thread you dont think should exist. About how it shouldnt exist.
    This should be the definition of the term "loser".
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Your 3 replys in this thread all say the same thing pretty much, that we shouldnt waste our time with this boring, meaningless thread. A thread you replied to 3 times. Again, replied 3 times. To a "boring" thread you dont think should exist. About how it shouldnt exist. This should be the definition of the term "loser".
    Posted by habsno17[/QUOTE]
    Nice work M-17. It's like shooting fish in a barrel eh......I hope your summer is treating you well.Cheers!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CactusTonyo. Show CactusTonyo's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Your 3 replys in this thread all say the same thing pretty much, that we shouldnt waste our time with this boring, meaningless thread. A thread you replied to 3 times. Again, replied 3 times. To a "boring" thread you dont think should exist. About how it shouldnt exist. This should be the definition of the term "loser".
    Posted by habsno17[/QUOTE]
    I had one hour to ''lose'' so i came here to watch those stupids posts miczor or whatever your name is ....:)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from habsno17. Show habsno17's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Nice work M-17. It's like shooting fish in a barrel eh......I hope your summer is treating you well.Cheers!
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Been treating me very well, thanks brother. Hope yours is the same.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Been treating me very well, thanks brother. Hope yours is the same.
    Posted by habsno17[/QUOTE]
    I too am having an awesome summer. I'm going to another local rock festival next  weekend and, once again, I'll be wearing my Bruins 2011 Cup champs towel as a cape. People love it.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Why?
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Because what is the fun if you can't just blindly start ripping on someone, or name calling, or just being a flat out homer.
    Objectivity automatically puts you in the minority. Foot in mouth
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges : Because what is the fun if you can't just blindly start ripping on someone, or name calling, or just being a flat out homer. Objectivity automatically puts you in the minority.
    Posted by seobrien[/QUOTE]

    OK, but understand I have to put up those posts.

    If I don't, then all non-Bruins fans might sniff out "the deal."

    It all went down like this.  It all started when Matt Cooke inflicted an intent to injure penalty upon Marc Savard.  That's when "the deal" was made by  Colin Campbell. 
    1) Cookie gets off scott free.
    2) The Bruins have to acquire his son.
    Then the following season, no Bruin would be called for any penalties and certainly no suspensions no matter what they did.
    3) This way Colin's son would get his name on the Stanley Cup 100% for sure.

    Every Bruin was given license to maim, but Chara was given license to kill.  Chara was going to rip MaxPac's head off and ghoulishly drink the spurting blood from his neck, but the league thought someone might notice that, so they said he could only ram his head into the turn buckle.

    Thank God no other fans realized the fix was in.  I thought they would have caught on for sure when Marchard savagely punched Sedin 3 times inflicting a concussion on every shot.

    They all began to sniff a rat when Boychuk tried to break someone's neck, but he disguised that well enough so no one caught on.

    The key was Horton leaving himself open for the Rome hit and faking a concussion.  That was a thing of beauty.  They lose a key player, a franchise player in Rome and we only gave up Horton.  Ha!

    And who can forget when Chara speared Lapierre through his manhood?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9YNTSo9aeE

    I'm pretty sure I saw Chara's stick go right thru Lapierre, Chara should have been suspended for life for that one.

    Hopefully those legal beagles in Montreal don't figure all this out and force us to give back the blood tainted cup.  By right the cup should be forfeited back to Montreal because they lost to the Bruins in the first round.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]The facts and nothing but the facts.  And what can you conclude? Was there noteworthy hostility between the players in previous games? Yes Was there noteworthy hostility between the players during that particular game? No. Did Chara have motive? Yes.  Is it possible that one player could intentionally ride another into the stanchion? Yes. Have there been other incidents where one player intentionally injurred another by riding the other player into the stanchion? No ( none that I could find ) Note:   A stanchion of one kind or another has been in existence since at least 1899 per my research.  Check this early photo of a rink in Montreal, the posts that support the roof also support the side boards, there are 14 posts. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2009/6/20/919690/a-history-of-the-montreal Note: Hockey has had a lot of violence since its earliest history.  Before they had full size boards players would inevidibly fall into the crowd and visiting team players were often roughed up before being returned to the ice.  And stick swinging incidents have been recorded from very early in hockey history. Note:  112 years of hockey and there is no history of a tactic of intentionally ramming other players into the stanchions in order to cause injury.  In contrast the tactic of intentionally using the boards to injure a player is well known as "boarding" and has been a penalty practically since full size boards became standard. Note:   Many retired players have 'confessed' their 'dirty tricks'.  For example Johnny Bower admitted to intentionally tripping players with his goalie stick and making it look accidental.  Players have admitted they intentionally hit maskless goalies in the face or speared or butt ended.  No player to my knowledge has ever admitted that they intnetionally would ride players into the stanchions. Could Chara have premeditated this particular action previous to the game? No. Could Chara have premeditated this particular action in the instant before the hit? Yes. Did Chara intend to injure Max Pac? Possible. Can Chara's intent be proven? No. Were Chara's action CERTAIN to cause Max Pac an injury? No. Note: There are hundreds of examples of players being ridden into the stanchion and colliding violently with no grievous injury done. Did Chara have other opportunities to injure Max Pac? Yes. Did Chara make physical contact with Max at other times in the game? Yes. When Chara made physical contact with Max at other points in the game, were they overly aggressive or unusual in any way? No. Are there unintended and incidental injuries in hockey? Yes.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    spot on badhab, through all of that the play was a hockey play, the history of the hits like you mention go back to hockey's inception, so are 49th and the other "injustice" thinkers trying to make the game other than it is?  I think so, I hope I die before I see the ramifications of the Montreal Police (MP) actions on MP pun intended from this stupid incident!  Move on all, 49th own up to the fact you are a decent poster with an "ax to grind"!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinsfanforever. Show Bruinsfanforever's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    CactusTonyo, Cactustony and Cactustonia are all F@3kin Idiots, with a combined IQ of -100,000,000,000,000
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    My entry on to this post was simply to state that none of this nonsense with the Montreal cops and crown prosecutors would have happened if the NHL would have acted correctly.  Even a fine would have done it.  The outrage happened when "no supplemental discipline is required" was sent out from the NHL's offices.  In virtually every location except Boston, there was surprise. 

    I really have no ax to grind. My other major point was that I, like many others, hope that the NHL attempts to develop some consistency in its rulings on supplemental discipline.  Again, I contend that most hockey fans would agree on that point.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    In Response to Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges:
    [QUOTE]My entry on to this post was simply to state that none of this nonsense with the Montreal cops and crown prosecutors would have happened if the NHL would have acted correctly.  Even a fine would have done it.  The outrage happened when "no supplemental discipline is required" was sent out from the NHL's offices.  In virtually every location except Boston, there was surprise.  I really have no ax to grind. My other major point was that I, like many others, hope that the NHL attempts to develop some consistency in its rulings on supplemental discipline.  Again, I contend that most hockey fans would agree on that point.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    You have no basis whatsoever in saying that.

    McSorley intetionally struck Brashear over the head with his stick and was suspended FOR THE SEASON - 23 games.  And McSorley was still prosecuted and then found guilty.  McSorley received 18 months probation.  No where do I see that the probation was reduced by x number of months because of "time served" by being suspended for 23 games.

    Fines and suspensions by the NHL carry no weight in the legal system.

    "consistency in its rulings on supplemental discipline."  They have gotten better at this.  When a player applies a high hit from the blind side it is clear the intention is to at least rattle the players dome - or worse.

    As Bruins fans we have the biggest ax in the world to grind.  Savard's career was effectively ended by Cooke which was clearly an intent to injure.  The hit to the head rule is unnecessary IMO.  Intent to injure has always been there and should have been enforced in that situation.  The intent has to be clear, had Cooke hit Savard with some other non hight hit and Savard received a concussion as a result of his head hitting the ice it wouldn't be clear that there was an intent to injure.  Plus Cooke applied the exact same hit to that Russian Ranger earlier in the season which shows intent.

    Chara is arguably the strongest player in the league and I believe he's still the biggest.  If he had a mean streak like Steven did he would be injuring players on a pretty routine basis.

    Find me one other incident where it is clear that Chara had intent to injure, another stanchion hit, boarding cross check to the face and etc.

    Chara has gone ape on some players during fights, but look what happened to instigate it.  McCabe sticked Chara in the manhood no less than 6 times before Chara lost it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMWLFca67ng
    If that's not just cause for manslaughter, I don't know what is.

    Further - and another point - when a good clean hit is laid on a star player it's inevitable that this prompts a fight immediately afterward.  That should be an immediate game misconduct.  The resolution player wise is to lay a good clean hit in the opposite direction.  Dropping the gloves slows the game and it's an attempt at making players not hit the stars.  Not right.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Montreal Police hand Chara file to Prosecutor to decide on any charges

    habs and canucks fans are a disgrace to hockey
     

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