Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      It was meant as a joke more then a slam at US fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it was, as was my statement coming back.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      It was meant as a joke more then a slam at US fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it was, as was my statement coming back.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nobody gets your jokes, I don't get it.  Maybe that's why you get in spats so often.   This goes for Chowdah also.

    Shupe ..... he's just a loverboy.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      It was meant as a joke more then a slam at US fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it was, as was my statement coming back.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nobody gets your jokes, I don't get it.  Maybe that's why you get in spats so often.   This goes for Chowdah also.

    Shupe ..... he's just a loverboy.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nas is the Andy Kaufman of this board.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      It was meant as a joke more then a slam at US fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it was, as was my statement coming back.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nobody gets your jokes, I don't get it.  Maybe that's why you get in spats so often.   This goes for Chowdah also.

    Shupe ..... he's just a loverboy.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Should I try the Richie Cunningham/BsLegion approach instead ? 

    Golly gosh . Geez gawl darn it.........

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

      It was meant as a joke more then a slam at US fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course it was, as was my statement coming back.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nobody gets your jokes, I don't get it.  Maybe that's why you get in spats so often.   This goes for Chowdah also.

    Shupe ..... he's just a loverboy.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Should I try the Richie Cunningham/BsLegion approach instead ? 

    Golly gosh . Geez gawl darn it.........

    [/QUOTE]


     

    If I had a burger for everytime I took one of your jokes personal I would be 400lbs.  I prefer the Chowdah approach anyway. 

    and Dez is half a Newfie.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    To me, because there is such a huge gap revenue wise between the top 5 teams and the bottom 5 teams is the biggest reason there is a lockout. I don't know what the average attendance is in Tampa,Florida,Columbus,Pheonix etc..But even if they sold out every game they wouldnt even be close to generating as much revenue as teams like Montreal,Toronto and Boston etc..I dont think the local networks that show their games down there in Sunrise get as much for advertising. Probably not even close. Then you factor in appeareal,merchandise etc..It's gotta be huge, now the owners are askign the players to foot some of the bill in those regards.

    For me, like I said, theres a huge difference between a small market and a bad market. NHL has too many teams in bad markets. Small markets can thrive,  Look at the Packers. Just buying a ticket doesnt make anyone a good market. Example: A team in Quebec selling out their 10,000 seat stadium every night is much healthier than a team in Florida averaging 12.000 a night. The overall interest in the smaller market is much greater, thus generating more revenue across the board.

    The NHL has had 4 work stoppages in the last 20 years. The single biggest reason for this is expansion. Expansion in bad markets.

    [/QUOTE]


    If someone told you that Tampa, Florida, Phoenix, and Columbus all had better attendance than the Boston Bruins, the year before the salary cap came into effect....would that change your opinion

    Quote
    I'm with Kel, in principal anyway. The bad decisions (expansion) which the owners participated in (and got paid for) are a big part of the issue and why they "need" a better deal in the CBA. Solid market teams are objecting to having to share so much revenue to suport the weaker market teams. But they aren't about to let those teams sink so how do they share and get more revenue? By taking it out of the player's share.

    Decent attendance in PHX doesn't translate into revenue the way it does in a good hockey town. You can probably go to a Coyote's game for $20 where the same ticket in Boston or Toronto or Detroit is $90. Think those hockey rabid fans of the sun belt would pay that? The barn would be empty.

    [/QUOTE]


    I couldn't disagree much more.  Not only are the 'little teams" looking to get more money....so are the "big teams".  That's not abstract opinion.  This is in no way related to expansion, or revenue sharing.  If tomorrow, the league reverted back to 6 teams, nothing would change in terms of negotiations.  The league STILL would not want to pay 57% of hrr.

    A good hockey town has to be built.  Boston hasn't always been one.  Hockey went from being the toast of the town(70's), to more or less irrelevancelate (90's), then back again(current).  I'm not going out on a limb by suggesting...someday....the Bruins will have a harder time selling tickets.

    It's a proven fact, "nothing draws people, like a crowd".  Attendance near 100% creates a buzz.  When your rink is empty, ticket prices plummet, when it's full, the price goes through the roof.  Supply and demand, and fans in any market will pay more when the rink starts filling up.

    Could only research tickets from 2010 but the numbers don't support your statement.

    First, a couple of the big dogs.  Chicago $46, Boston $54 

    Florida $48, Nashville $48, Tampa $36, Phoenix $37

    Based on their historical attendance, and their average prices these teams should have a shot at being decent franchises if they didn't sell for a ridiculous price.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to stevegm's comment:[QUOTE] A good hockey town has to be built.  Boston hasn't always been one.  Hockey went from being the toast of the town(70's), to more or less irrelevancelate (90's), then back again(current).  I'm not going out on a limb by suggesting...someday....the Bruins will have a harder time selling tickets.

    It's a proven fact, "nothing draws people, like a crowd".  Attendance near 100% creates a buzz.  When your rink is empty, ticket prices plummet, when it's full, the price goes through the roof.  Supply and demand, and fans in any market will pay more when the rink starts filling up.

    Based on their historical attendance, and their average prices these teams should have a shot at being decent franchises if they didn't sell for a ridiculous price. [/QUOTE]

    http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=4919

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/gamestats.htm?season=19971998&gameType=2&team=BOS&viewName=gameSummary

    I would have thought that the Bruins attendance would have been terrible after missing the playoffs for the 1st time in 30 years in 1997. Not the case attendance stayed up.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    Attendance figures can be pretty suspect.  Just ask anyone following the Sox "sellout streak".

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    If there was margin of error +/- 1,500 to 2,500 added to any stats gathered by organizations or web sites. There still would not be a significant drop in 90s Bruins attendance.

    Asking a Red Sox fan these days anything to do with logic is just a no win situation. Apparently Jason Bay and Kevin Youklis would  bring the nation another world series if they were brought back.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not sure why it's Canada's game.  Even in the Original 6 days, most of the team have been in the USA.

    Is Fehr ruining the game?  There is more than 50% Canadian in the NHLPA.  They could easily decide to sign any deal today.  They haven't.

    Canadian hockey players ruining USA's ice game.

    [/QUOTE]

    This stupid post just moved up to no#1 on your long list. There would have never been an original 6 if it where not for Canada and there players, and likely no leaque at all..... Sometimes u just seem so lost.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    Let's get rid of marchand. The bruins would clearly be a weaker team, but at least Costanza would be happy.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    I can't believe the bruins would keep this player after his half a slew foot......If there is such a thing.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:[QUOTE] A good hockey town has to be built.  Boston hasn't always been one.  Hockey went from being the toast of the town(70's), to more or less irrelevancelate (90's), then back again(current).  I'm not going out on a limb by suggesting...someday....the Bruins will have a harder time selling tickets.

    It's a proven fact, "nothing draws people, like a crowd".  Attendance near 100% creates a buzz.  When your rink is empty, ticket prices plummet, when it's full, the price goes through the roof.  Supply and demand, and fans in any market will pay more when the rink starts filling up.

    Based on their historical attendance, and their average prices these teams should have a shot at being decent franchises if they didn't sell for a ridiculous price. [/QUOTE]

    http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=4919

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/gamestats.htm?season=19971998&gameType=2&team=BOS&viewName=gameSummary

    I would have thought that the Bruins attendance would have been terrible after missing the playoffs for the 1st time in 30 years in 1997. Not the case attendance stayed up.

    [/QUOTE]


    No one ever implied attendance was "terrible" at any time.  Boston has been fairly consistent.  It has gone through a few cycles though, when it was virtually impossible to buy a ticket, and there have been times when tickets were everywhere.  At no time was the former more prevalent than from about 96-03.  Attendance went from 17500ish to around 15ish for those years(14% drop is big in any companies eye).

    The old garden is a perfect example of "drawing a crowd".  As it sat less than 14000,(smallest in the NHL) there was obviously a certain amount of built in "demand".  Filling a rink that size, while operating in a huge, original 6 market, shouldn't be too difficult, and allows the luxury of gouging those buying tickets.

    The term "irrelevance' was used by many scribes musing NHL hockey in New England during those years.  Could be a bit of an exageration, but anyone old enough to remember the Boston area, circa the big, bad Bruins, can attest to the huge disparity in overall popularity in those periods.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Attendance figures can be pretty suspect.  Just ask anyone following the Sox "sellout streak".

    [/QUOTE]


    you're absolutely right....but no more suspect than any other figures we have access to regarding the game.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The old garden is a perfect example of "drawing a crowd".  As it sat less than 14000,(smallest in the NHL) there was obviously a certain amount of built in "demand".

    [/QUOTE]

    While it's not going to change the thought process here, I do want to point out that the Garden's capacity for hockey was 14,448.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The old garden is a perfect example of "drawing a crowd".  As it sat less than 14000,(smallest in the NHL) there was obviously a certain amount of built in "demand".

    [/QUOTE]

    While it's not going to change the thought process here, I do want to point out that the Garden's capacity for hockey was 14,448.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And felt like another 3,000 hanging off the rafters! GOD I loved that dump!!!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The old garden is a perfect example of "drawing a crowd".  As it sat less than 14000,(smallest in the NHL) there was obviously a certain amount of built in "demand".

    [/QUOTE]

    While it's not going to change the thought process here, I do want to point out that the Garden's capacity for hockey was 14,448.

    QUOTE

    Whatever.  I just quickly referenced wikipedia, which stated  13909 for hockey and 14895 for basketball.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to pauly1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let's get rid of marchand. The bruins would clearly be a weaker team, but at least Costanza would be happy.

    [/QUOTE]


    Please keep these insightful, full of hockey knowledge posts coming. Your a valued contributor to this site.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kivvak. Show kivvak's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    A good market for hockey is not determined by how many tickets you can sell when you are winning. It is determined by wether or not you can retain enough interest when the team has 3 or more losing seasons. Cities like Pheonix and Carolina can sell out hockey games when their teams are contenders, but after a couple of losing seasons they are lucky if they can sell a third of the seats. In cities like Boston Montreal thay can go through tough times and still retain enough interest to keep from losing millions. They can do this because they have a stong core of fans that love the team and the game so much that they will still go to games when the team is not that good. Why do they love the temas and game so much? Because they grew up playing the game! That is why southern cities will always lose money, they cannot sustain a core audience during the losing seasons because their fan base does not play the game.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    I think it's getting to point where the clock is now a factor.

    How much of a season can you slavage, and is it really a season? How much money does either side want to lose during this process? How much longer do you want the people to realize they can get along without the NHL? The second they come back, I'll be there. I think the longer you go the more risk you take of, I don't want to say losing fans, but maybe delaying their interest level...cause like I said, if they have a 45 game season, will it seem like a real season??

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to kivvak's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A good market for hockey is not determined by how many tickets you can sell when you are winning. It is determined by wether or not you can retain enough interest when the team has 3 or more losing seasons. Cities like Pheonix and Carolina can sell out hockey games when their teams are contenders, but after a couple of losing seasons they are lucky if they can sell a third of the seats. In cities like Boston Montreal thay can go through tough times and still retain enough interest to keep from losing millions. They can do this because they have a stong core of fans that love the team and the game so much that they will still go to games when the team is not that good. Why do they love the temas and game so much? Because they grew up playing the game! That is why southern cities will always lose money, they cannot sustain a core audience during the losing seasons because their fan base does not play the game.

    [/QUOTE]


    The first part of your post is bang on.  Things fly off the rails pretty quick from there.  Phoenix sold more tickets a few years ago, when they were actually worse.

    Despite missing the playoffs last year, Tampa averaged almost 1000 more fans per game than the Bruins.  In the 7 full seasons since the lock-out, Tampa Bay has hosted a total of 485,514 more fans than Boston.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think it's getting to point where the clock is now a factor.

    How much of a season can you slavage, and is it really a season? How much money does either side want to lose during this process? How much longer do you want the people to realize they can get along without the NHL? The second they come back, I'll be there. I think the longer you go the more risk you take of, I don't want to say losing fans, but maybe delaying their interest level...cause like I said, if they have a 45 game season, will it seem like a real season??

    [/QUOTE]


    I'll be there too Kel. 

    Personally, an abbreviated season doesn't bother me nearly as much as no season.  Since this stuff is about all we have to banter around, I'll reiterate my view that the league won't be motivated for another month or 6 weeks.  The pain is real by this point...may as well see who has the best theshold.  If I were the league, and I'm trying to hammer out a deal for the next several years, I'd feel quite confident in assuming one more month of agony will yield a pretty big shift in player attitude. 

    Unfortunately, everyone at the table is still pretty cocky.

    cheers

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The old garden is a perfect example of "drawing a crowd".  As it sat less than 14000,(smallest in the NHL) there was obviously a certain amount of built in "demand".

    [/QUOTE]

    While it's not going to change the thought process here, I do want to point out that the Garden's capacity for hockey was 14,448.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And felt like another 3,000 hanging off the rafters! GOD I loved that dump!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Add me to the list of vivid memories of the old garden.  The stale beer vapors, rats on the rafters, lack of beautiful women did not deter my desire to go there as many times as possible.  We are more civil than that now.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to islamorada's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The old garden is a perfect example of "drawing a crowd".  As it sat less than 14000,(smallest in the NHL) there was obviously a certain amount of built in "demand".

    [/QUOTE]

    While it's not going to change the thought process here, I do want to point out that the Garden's capacity for hockey was 14,448.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And felt like another 3,000 hanging off the rafters! GOD I loved that dump!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Add me to the list of vivid memories of the old garden.  The stale beer vapors, rats on the rafters, lack of beautiful women did not deter my desire to go there as many times as possible.  We are more civil than that now.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Seats behind a pole. Boards swaying back and forth after a big Neely hit. 250lb Revere girls with huge hair do's in their Andy Moog shirts that could have been a blanket for my twin bed at home.

    Ahhh, the memories.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Negotiations end with both sides fustrated.

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pauly1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let's get rid of marchand. The bruins would clearly be a weaker team, but at least Costanza would be happy.

    [/QUOTE]


    Please keep these insightful, full of hockey knowledge posts coming. Your a valued contributor to this site.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why did u side step the main topic? That Costanza says this is the usa's game, not Canada's.......Anybody with any hockey knowledge knows hockey is Canada's game PERIOD. Show some stones u wimp and say it the way it is.

     
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