NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    In response to Klaas' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The link also says mandatory wearing of helmuts during fights.

     



     

    Slowly they're pushing out fighting.

    [/QUOTE]

    And it's the day I stop watching.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    What about helmets?  Do you think they should be optional?



    Yes. Who am I to tell someone else how they have to live? They're men. They can decide what they think is too dangerous. [/QUOTE]


    Yah Live La Vita Texas and New Hampshire!

     

    Seriously though whatever is in the shoulder pads and elbow pads need to be outlawed. I think the hybrid icing and making the goalies pads back to Pre-Snow days are on their way...well I hope so!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    Forcing players to have visors on, and then forcing them to keep their helmets on during a fight, could pretty much end fighting without setting out to end fighting.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations


    I wish the NHL CC had discussed the kevlar reinforced body armour that the skaters carry around on their elbows and shoulders - probably the main cause of the rash of concussions lately...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     


    See I don't remember a single hockey death during my childhood. Am I forgetting someone who died as a result of a head injury in the NHL in the 70's?

     

     

     



    William J. Masterton (August 13, 1938 – January 15, 1968) was a Canadian–American professional ice hockey centre who played in the National Hockey League (NHL) for the Minnesota North Stars in 1967–68. He is the only player in NHL history to die as a direct result of injuries suffered during a game, the result of massive head injuries suffered following a hit during a January 13, 1968, game against the Oakland Seals.

     



    One of my Dad's best friends. I guess that may put slightly into context my feelings about helmets. We all have our own biases, we just need to recognize them. For me, growing up and hearing stories about Billy certainly influenced my opinion on this topic. I recognize that. Just as I understand that those with Libertarian tendencies (which I have on most subjects) will have other influences. There's no right or wrong to this one.

    I will ask, however, are there more head injuries now, like Fletch and Dez mentioned, or are they simply being diagnosed more accurately? Not that they're more common, but that science has advanced enough to call them what they are. That's not rhetorical - It's an honest question to which I have no answer.

    Anyone know of any research or studies into this?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Klaas' comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    The link also says mandatory wearing of helmuts during fights.

     

     



     

     

    Slowly they're pushing out fighting.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And it's the day I stop watching.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    No you won't , you're a sucker as I am and be back.  You love the sport too much.

    I agree it'll become a very dirty game.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Forcing players to have visors on, and then forcing them to keep their helmets on during a fight, could pretty much end fighting without setting out to end fighting.




    The other night on TSN they had Briere on with the usuals between periods and the question was asked if they should take out fighting in the NHL and he said " NO WAY , it would be a free for all and then we would see real dirty play "

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to red75's comment:

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    Fletch,

    What about helmets?  Do you think they should be optional?

     




    Yes. Who am I to tell someone else how they have to live? They're men. They can decide what they think is too dangerous. There was also a significant rise in head injuries since helmets were made mandatory. I'm not certain that forcing safety on the players really works.

     

     

     



    They're men but they're also employees, and their employer has a vested interest in their health. How is making a helmet or visor madatory different than making steel toed work boots, hard hats or safety goggles mandatory? For insurance purposes as well as trying to maintain a healthy and productive workforce, as to help with the bottom line, hundereds of thousands of employers around North America mandate certain safety equipment, and some industries have their safety standards mandated by federal legislation (such as wearing a hazmat suit when around radioactivity or firefighters wearing helmets and protective gear).

     

     

    Why should hockey be different than any other industry?

     



    It isn't in many respects. That's why most things still need to be OKed by the union. It's just like I have the absolute right to refuse to work in any mill that has mandatory steel toes (they all do of course). It might even fly if I was a unique and elite talent.  If those men decide to vote against facial protection then it's none of our business to force it on them. The last thing I'm interested in is applying more federal mandates to pro sports. Maybe they should ban dirt bikes because people go over jumps. Bungee jumping or parachuting..........way too dangerous. Jai-alai.........can't believe they let people still play that. The balls too fast. People die! Speaking of dying what's up with auto racing? There's no way that should be allowed.

     



    While hockey is still unionized, most industries aren't - only a little more than a fifth of Canadians, for example, are unionized. Most people don't get to vote on steel toes - it is an eonomic deciscion by an employer in many cases. And like you or I, they still would have a choice (KHL, AHL, or ECHL for examples) If the union is complicit - and the competition committee has elected union reps on it - then I don't see how this isn't an issue of self-unionized policing. Is it not inherrently democratic? You elect representatives, they then choose a committee and they then make a policy. How is that different than a State senate? Sounds like the competition committee, with its elected/appointed members made a call, just like most unions.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    Dez, I agree the rule is cut and dry for a referee.  At the end of the game the accusation of some teams of having special treatment by the officials is not a question.  My point is the accidental shot in the stands should not determine a game either.  The on ice officials also have many other calls left to their descreation including the potential hybrid icing now being experimented.  Your suggestion of the glass being a bit higher would help for sure.  

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The NHL changes slowly, like Canon Law.  Goalie Equipment is an impairment to scoring which is down since 2005.  Visors makes sense, but the players understand the consequences.  Helmuts while fighting, figures with concussions.  Simply put a way to limit fighting without complete elimination.  Goal net sounds excellent, height of the goal should be changed imo,  referee's discreation on defensemen recieving a delay of game penalty for shooting the puck in the stands.  A pet peeve, how long does it take to blow a whistle when it is out of sight, goalies have 1 second but erratically called.  Meanwhile, slowly we turn, step by step to improve the game.  European football logic imo.  Just for information purposes why not let players kick the puck in the net? 

    Don't judge me monkey!

     



    Isla, is't this just going back to the problematic way that it used to be? The rule was put in place to eliminate the discretionary call. When the call was at the ref's discretion, there was always one team that disagreed with his decision. Now the rule is fairly cut and dried. I wonder if they couldn't just raise the glass another foot or two to make it harder to fire out by accident.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Fletch,

    What about helmets?  Do you think they should be optional?

     




    Yes. Who am I to tell someone else how they have to live? They're men. They can decide what they think is too dangerous. There was also a significant rise in head injuries since helmets were made mandatory. I'm not certain that forcing safety on the players really works.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sure that helmets aren't causing injuries.  Diagnosis is better.  The players are faster.  The equipment is harder.

    Helmets don't cause injury.  They do prevent injury.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    A lot of good points here, and the best answer considers all of them.  Head injuries have certainly gone nuts since helmets became mandatory, however, we know absolutely, that back in the day, as long as you were "fairly" concious, you were expected to suck it up and continue.  No exceptions.  So, in actuality, there's little to compare.  It seems illogical to me, that equipment kids have worn all their life, somehow becomes "cumbersome", when they get to the show.  That story worked for a few years when guys were playing that didn't grow up wearing this stuff, but that was decades ago.  Honestly, from what I see today, I can't believe that virtually all athletes from my generation, have suffered mutiple concussions.

    The helmet debate ended 30 years ago, and I can't see much positive in bringing it back.  It certainly won't be considered again at the NHL level.  Any argument against visors is stupid from the PA.  Again, anyone whose started their NHL career in the last several years, wore something like this there whole life.  It makes no sense whatsoever. 

    I for one, am firmly onboard with most free choice arguments.  I believe we have way too many rules, and way to few guiding principals.  Dealing with sport though, is like dealing with horses.  Rules are all you have.  Subjectivity, rarely improves the product.  If visors are an option...lets make elbow pads one too.  The visor thing isn't about safety, it's merely vanity.

    Someone mentioned auto racing.  That's an industry that has gotten it's act together about safety.  Unfortunately, like most other sports, it almost had to be crippled, before they got their head out of the sand, but instead of several fatalities per year, death in auto racing is now very rare.  What I can find suggests it's been over 10 years since a death in Nascar.  Death used to be a fact of life in that business.

    Getting back to head injuries in hockey.  Hockey helmets are pretty much the same as they were 30 years ago(sans the Gretzky model).  I have a CCM that I just ditched circa early 80's, and my new Bauer is pretty much the same(don't wear a visor either).  Helmet technology has advanced a ton in the last 15 years, yet in hockey....status quo.  What's incredible, is that hockey gear in general, has advanced greatly.

    I can understand a reluctance to tamper with the rules.  There's always great resistance from those paying the freight.  Many of the games greatest supporters believed the world was coming to an end with the elimination of the 2 line pass.  It's just the way things go.

    Safety though, is something else.  There are many, many ways one can be critcally injured or killed playing NHL hockey.  Several of those, are inherant dangers associated with playing the game.  A puck, a skate, an awkward head first fall into the boards can be someones undoing.  The league has a responsibility to limit the potential to things uncontrollable.  Grievous injury sustained as a result of acceptable play is not an option.  That needs to be dealt with.  There are many, many ways to start the process.  The problem seems to be buying in. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to red75's comment:

    I will ask, however, are there more head injuries now, like Fletch and Dez mentioned, or are they simply being diagnosed more accurately? 

    [/QUOTE]





    Take it for what it's worth but this is my opinion.

    Both. 

    1) We've all heard about the horror stories of yesteryear. Get out and play no matter what, was the theme back in the day. Modern medicine has taken care of that type of thinking. Diagnosing the injuries is obviously come a long way.

    2) We also all know the game has gotten bigger and faster without any changes to the ice size. Less room for the bigger bodies.

    The feared hitting of players like the Leo Boivin's ( 5'8" ) from the past have been replaced by mammouth players.

    Getting hit by pickup trucks has changed to transport trucks.

     




     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:



    1) We've all heard about the horror stories of yesteryear. Get out and play no matter what, was the theme back in the day. Modern medicine has taken care of that type of thinking. Diagnosing the injuries is obviously come a long way.

    2) We also all know the game has gotten bigger and faster without any changes to the ice size. Less room for the bigger bodies.

    The feared hitting of players like the Leo Boivin's ( 5'8" ) from the past have been replaced by mammouth players.

    Getting hit by pickup trucks has changed to transport trucks.



    "Diagnosis is better.  The players are faster.  The equipment is harder."

    I agree!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     


    "Diagnosis is better.  The players are faster.  The equipment is harder."

     

     

    I agree!

     





    Yes, that too..........I forgot about that.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    Players used to respect the idea that they were playing against another human being. There were always big hits and there were always guys like bobby Hull that could really shoot the puck. It used to be a guy wouldn't take a slapper if they saw someone's face in front of them. It used to be rare for guys to hit people head first into the boards. In fact, the boarding penalty was rare to see called. By no means am I suggesting that players should go back to no helmets. What I'm saying is that I feel the "evolution" of equipment has led to generations of players who grew up feeling like they and their opponents were invincible. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: NHL Competition Commitee Recommendations

    What exactly would the "hybrid" icing entail? I know whatever it is (college, world play style) it is a step in the right direction. Two guys flying full speed to the end dasher to touch a puck along the wall has caused some gruesome after effects.


    I'm in the camp that thinks that players should have to remove their helmets before fighting, not leave them on.

    No mention of taking the body armour out of the equation is a bit disappointing to me. There seems to be plenty of options over the lightweight hard plastics they currently use. Elbow pads and shoulder pads are much more destructive now than in the past.



     

     

     
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