NHLPA Counter

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    NHLPA Counter

    Interesting to read the points to the recent NHLPA proposal.  

    * Revenue sharing over the proposed three year term of the CBA will be $465m up to $800m.  The bottom 15 teams will receive $250m per season up from $170m.  The quick analysis is this is a shared revenue sharing system.  The numbers given by the NHLPA were not percentages, which makes the proposal seem dubious.  I am not a math whiz like some on here to calculate or there could be other contingences not stated in the media.  Bettman characterized the proposal as "thorough". September 15th is a month away! 

    * A hard salary cap is in place with the proposal.  Yet there were not limitations on the contracts.  A quick analysis is shocking only a small adjustment was made to the hard cap. The no change to contracts is not shocking as it is an internal conflict of the owners.  

    I would like to know others views on this proposal.  




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    What Fehr has said to the players is that he feels the amount the NHL is going to make over the next few years will increase even more. So the roll back isn't really going to hurt that bad to the players because of the growth projection is going to rise. The players could still make as much or even though there % dropped.

    Fehr is smart he knows if the owners scoff at the alternative it will make them look worse because the players initially said we'll except the roll back. If the rich owners want to keep overpaying that's fine but they would pay a luxury tax. If I were the owners I would take it and see how it works, it's only three 3 years with an option for a 4th if it doesn't work out.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    In Response to NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Interesting to read the points to the recent NHLPA proposal.   * Revenue sharing over the proposed three year term of the CBA will be $465m up to $800m.  The bottom 15 teams will receive $250m per season up from $170m.   The quick analysis is this is a shared revenue sharing system.  The numbers given by the NHLPA were not percentages, which makes the proposal seem dubious.  I am not a math whiz like some on here to calculate or there could be other contingences not stated in the media.  Bettman characterized the proposal as "thorough". September 15th is a month away!  * A hard salary cap is in place with the proposal.  Yet there were not limitations on the contracts.   A quick analysis is shocking only a small adjustment was made to the hard cap. The no change to contracts is not shocking as it is an internal conflict of the owners.   I would like to know others views on this proposal.  
    Posted by islamorada[/QUOTE]

    I think it's dubious too.  The owners wanted the split to go from 57 to what...46(42 or 43 depending on the accounting function).  That's probably one of the biggest hurdles, and at this point, it's hard to figure out what the unions counter was.  The fact that they tabbed their overall response as creative, and mixed it up with  many different scenarios, suggests that movement was very, very small.  Just enough to make it look like they're taking the high road.  It's a start, but I'd suggest both sides are further apart than they figured they'd be 6 months ago, despite the rhetoric.
    Just my opinion.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter




    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    Marvin Miller does not like Fehr proposal! 

    Former baseball players' union chief Marvin Miller has strongly criticized his former baseball protege and understudy Donald Fehr because of what the latter has proposed to the NHL in his current role as union chief of the NHL Players' Association.

    Responding to reports that Fehr and the NHLPA presented itself as a partner Tuesday seeking to help fix the NHL's problems in collective-bargaining negotiations, Miller said, "This is a joke." In an interview with Marty York on The York Report on NSSradiotv.com, Miller added: "I can't understand this. It's a joke. . .No legitimate union would ever allow salary caps. . .I cannot believe this. I don't understand what Donald Fehr is doing. What sports union starts off by offering to give money to a league?. . .This is like what (former and disgraced NHLPA chief Alan) Eagleson used to do with the NHL years ago. It's mind-boggling." Fehr said Tuesday the union's offer includes a smaller percentage of revenues for players and an expanded revenue-sharing program to help struggling teams. Fehr said the proposal could see players give up as much as $465 million in revenue if the league continues to grow at an average rate for the next three seasons.

    Source: NSSradiotv.com
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

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    Marvin Miller the divorce lawyer ? Didn't know he was still alive. The only thing Miller knew how to do is make his stache look perfectly quaffed when standing at the podium during the 1981 baseball strike.

    If the revenue goes up higher than projected by Fehr the players won't lose any money at the current % split the owners currently offered. The only pay cut the players would get is if they agree to shorten contracts which hasn't been agreed too yet. Also Fehrs alternative didn't say anything about lowering the current cap from $70M that would help the players stay at their current salary rates.

    Go back into hiding bl0whard Marvin!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    Maybe the whole "slimy" thing should be reserved for union lawyer pork choppers who get paid regardless of what happens to the players' jobs, salaries etc.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

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    And the PA comes back from Funky Town according to Aaron Ward.

    - extra draft picks for struggling teams.
    - teams can sell up to $4M of cap space to another team under restricted circumstances (i.e. severe financial problems)
    - fixed rather than percentage cap rules with the percentage of revenues being a player option only for the final year of the deal (and at 57%)
    - cap on non-player costs.

    Makes me think the PA has done its homework in more ways than one.  They clearly see a healthy and competitive league as the best case for maxing out spending - teams competing will spend more to compete rather than off-load salaries.  The fixed number also gives the owners most of what they want and the opportunity to really make hay over the first three years if they can grow revenues astronomically.  The players get back on the gravy train in year four if that happens, but then you'll be heading in to a negotiation anyway.

    The thing I find really weaselly?  Cap on non-player costs.  Now the players union are trying to dictate terms for the non-unionized coaches, GMs, front office workers, scouting staffs....  It's a great suggestion for them because they pitch it as taking the money out of creating a competitive balance, but for a Mike Babcock or some of the scouts with great reps, the players are trying to force a cap on them and they have no voice other than their employer.  That is bogus.  And terrible, terrible behaviour for an organization that bills itself as a labour union.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

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    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=403145
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

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    If they are so worried about teams in financial trouble, why not move these teams out of southern football territory and put them somewhere where there are more hockey fans. It worked last year when the Thrashers moved to Winipeg. They should look to move some of these teams struggling financially to a market where hockey could actually thrive.

    Giving them extra draft picks doesn't really make sense.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    Does anyone understand the point of giving extra draft picks to financially struggling teams?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

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    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone understand the point of giving extra draft picks to financially struggling teams?
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    All I could think of was that these teams that are low on the financial totem pole rely on developing prospects as opposed to signing free agents to gain success. Most free agents aren't interested in going to teams like Nashville or Phoenix. Some will go for the money, but most big name FA's will sign with large market teams. I guess what they are thinking is more young players ---> more fan interest ---> more money? I'm not sure how much of an impact this would make, and I doubt owners will want to give up picks for the small market teams.

    Of course, this means that they could have more good players come through the system only to leave via free agency once they become elligible. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

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    Competitive balance for a healthy league. They can't afford to sign as many players so they get to draft more.

    I don't like the idea, I think it's creating imbalance. I like a cap because it creates balance. Everyone has the same cap.

    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone understand the point of giving extra draft picks to financially struggling teams?
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:[QUOTE]Does anyone understand the point of giving extra draft picks to financially struggling teams ? Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    I don't think it will mesh with owners. I don't like it but I would bet that Steve Tambellini would love to find more reasons to tank. Get teams out of Long Island and Phoenix, get them into cities like Seattle and/or Portland where minor league hockey thrives.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

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    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]- cap on non-player costs. 
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
    Is it possible they really mean cap on how much non-player costs can count towards team expenses?  Meaning teams could spend more, but only so much would eat into the total league profit when doing the calculation.

    Edit:  Nevermind, just saw that they would delink the cap from hockey related revenue.  I'm not sure what they want to accomplish with this suggestion.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter : Is it possible they really mean cap on how much non-player costs can count towards team expenses?  Meaning teams could spend more, but only so much would eat into the total league profit when doing the calculation. Edit:  Nevermind, just saw that they would delink the cap from hockey related revenue.  I'm not sure what they want to accomplish with this suggestion.  
    Posted by DrCC[/QUOTE]

    They want the rest of us to see how much and how rich the owners are.  Next is the non-hockey revenues the owenrs make on the building with events, concerts ....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

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    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter : Is it possible they really mean cap on how much non-player costs can count towards team expenses?  Meaning teams could spend more, but only so much would eat into the total league profit when doing the calculation. Edit:  Nevermind, just saw that they would delink the cap from hockey related revenue.  I'm not sure what they want to accomplish with this suggestion.  
    Posted by DrCC[/QUOTE]

    Mechanics would tell part of the story, I think.  If the cap is a hard number, and it grows with inflation rather than with revenue for three years, it takes the risk of a decline in revenues off of the players.  It also takes away the need for a roll-back or for escrow (which I think is a core player issue) because there's no agreed back-tracking of the cap and there's no calculation at year end to make sure the players didn't get more than their percentage.  If that also means the players don't need access to the owners' books to verify that income is being reported and tracked honestly.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone understand the point of giving extra draft picks to financially struggling teams?
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    Another angle to receiving extra picks is that it gives the team another ingredient to include in a possible trade...during the same season (a 1st round pick/players can be offered to two teams).

    It does help them to build a team too if they decide to keep the picks - and three years of entry level money to the young guns.

    It seems though that the worse teams are always throwing away bad money or contracts and an extra pick may not help the worst teams in the league. Those Owners need a wake up call.

    Hey, how do they do that extra pick?
    Is it an extra second round pick? 2a/2b? back to back?
    Giving them two firsts rips off the other teams and giving 2 1st round picks to a team in the top five(who can move up in the Draft wouldn't be fair to the other 25 teams either.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

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    Extra picks?  Edmonton has been picking up front for half a decade and they can't get out of the basement.  Look at Atlanta's draft history.  Bomb after bomb not including Heatley and Kovalchuk.

    Teams don't need more draft picks, they need better draft picking.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

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    Edmonton's picks haven't had an impact yet. When they do, they will be quite the team...

    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Extra picks?  Edmonton has been picking up front for half a decade and they can't get out of the basement.  Look at Atlanta's draft history.  Bomb after bomb not including Heatley and Kovalchuk. Teams don't need more draft picks, they need better draft picking.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

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    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Edmonton's picks haven't had an impact yet. When they do, they will be quite the team... In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    As long as they can afford to pay them, which is an excellent safe guard within the current system.  There should be some help for those who don't succeed, but rightfully so, there are pitfalls for perpetual incompetence.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from heyoo. Show heyoo's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    If teams are losing money let them fold or allow them to move bcs bailing them out doesnt help the league. Atlanta moves and in their first year they are already doing better finacially. Phoenix to hartford..... do it....do it
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

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    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Edmonton's picks haven't had an impact yet. When they do, they will be quite the team... In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    Maybe.  Maybe not.

    I'm guessing "maybe not" based on their lack of everything besides quick skating forwards.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    Edmonton has some really talented forwards. But, I have a hard time giving credit to them because it would be awfully hard to screw up those picks since they've been so high. if Edmontons mangement team was so good they wouldnt be picking that high as many times as they have.

    I wouldnt be shocked if they were in the lottery again next year. No goaltending, weak defense etc.These players contracts could come up and the team is still fighting to get out of the basement. If I were them i would trade one of these forwards for a goalie and some defense. If not, i see them losing a bunch of games 6-4 etc..
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: NHLPA Counter

    In Response to Re: NHLPA Counter:
    [QUOTE]Edmonton has some really talented forwards. But, I have a hard time giving credit to them because it would be awfully hard to screw up those picks since they've been so high. if Edmontons mangement team was so goos they wouldnt be picking that high as many times as they have. I wouldnt be shocked if they were in the lottery again next year. No goaltending, weak defense etc.These players contracts could come up and the team is still fighting to get out of the basement. If I were them i would trade one of these forwards for a goalie and some defense. If not, i see them losing a bunch of games 6-4 etc..
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
    Exactly.This is where a good G.M or management team should earn their money.Its easy when you have the 1st overall pick & the CSB's player rating list,even i could do that, but to be creative and improve your team, that takes some guts and smarts. Why the Oilers didn't trade their 1st overall pick and Shawn Horcoff for a good d-man is something i would have tried to do.Someone likely would have went for this deal or something similar. Get rid of Horcoff's albatross contract,free up some space and sign a free agent,do something but don't just pick the best forward in the draft when you don't need it.Because of Edmontons poor "management team" i don't see them making the playoffs this year,next year or the year after that, unless they actually look at their roster and "manage" it. By then it will be too late and all their young talent will be gone. 
     

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