Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    No one will touch #4. 

    Who does everyone have as their 2nd best dman ever.  For all he has done and the level he is still playing at(Will Be Up For Norris Again) I will say Lidstrom would be my pick. 

    Hard to believe how good he has been this year.  Could be one of/if not his best year ever. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]No one will touch #4.  Who does everyone have as their 2nd best dman ever.  For all he has done and the level he is still playing at(Will Be Up For Norris Again) I will say Lidstrom would be my pick.  Hard to believe how good he has been this year.  Could be one of/if not his best year ever. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    Ray Bourque is 2nd best.He played in an era when the D competition was far stronger than today yet he consistently made the post-season all-star teams(essentially top 4 in the league every year).Using that as a gauge,I think Bourque holds a slight edge.He was chosen 19 times including 17 in a row.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    Seems like with 6 Norris Trophies on his resume, Lidstrom would have to be in the conversation of NHL's top d-men of all-time. 

    Interesting that you think this may be his best year ever, he is a -2 on a team that is +27 in goal differential.  Compare him with Chara, who is +21 and you have an interesting debate on who the more impactful player is this year.

    For 2nd all-time, pencil me in for Ray Bourque.  Five Norris Trophies, probably job jobbed out of three others.  He won those awards during a time where the overall depth of high-impact d-men was better than what Lidstrom has been there during Lidstrom's era. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ortiztheman2003. Show ortiztheman2003's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]Seems like with 6 Norris Trophies on his resume, Lidstrom would have to be in the conversation of NHL's top d-men of all-time.  Interesting that you think this may be his best year ever, he is a -2 on a team that is +27 in goal differential.  Compare him with Chara, who is +21 and you have an interesting debate on who the more impactful player is this year. For 2nd all-time, pencil me in for Ray Bourque.  Five Norris Trophies, probably job jobbed out of three others.  He won those awards during a time where the overall depth of high-impact d-men was better than what Lidstrom has been there during Lidstrom's era. 
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ortiztheman2003. Show ortiztheman2003's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever? :
    Posted by ortiztheman2003[/QUOTE]

    bourque defintly got jobbed out of at least 2 norris trophies and in my opinion and the m.v.p. the year messier won it . if memory serves ray put up 95 pts that year along with being the best defenseman in the league
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    Montreal would say Doug Harvey.  I really think it is Ray Bourque.  Lidstrom has allowed the Wings to be successful without a stellar goalie.  Ray Bourque allowed the Bs to be competitive without a stellar team.  Yes I am biased.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    My top 5, for what its worth.
    Orr
    Orr
    Orr
    Bourque
    Lidstrom

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from lostinbaltimore. Show lostinbaltimore's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    I think Potvin,Larry Robinson, and Brad Park were very good for their era. But I have to agree the B's have # 1 & 2. Pretty cool that we went from Orr to Park to Bourque, and finally Chara. That ranks up there with Williams, Yaz, Rice, Greenwell, Manny.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    I think it's too early to decide.  In order to judge a player's place in history for me, he has to be looked at many years after he retires.  Clearly Orr is the #1, but the #2 has been up for discussion forever.  Shore or Harvey generally lead the debate.  In all of my hockey conversations, I've never heard anyone suggest Bourque.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]I think it's too early to decide.  In order to judge a player's place in history for me, he has to be looked at many years after he retires.  Clearly Orr is the #1, but the #2 has been up for discussion forever.  Shore or Harvey generally lead the debate.  In all of my hockey conversations, I've never heard anyone suggest Bourque.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    I just did. I also said I was biased. Ha. Cheers NAS.  Go Bs!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    Great post. I don't think one saying Orr is the best of all-time is bias, he's usually put in the best PLAYER off all-time category. by people who have seen him.The real debate is 2nd best between Lidstrom and Bourque. Both incredibly durable, and both maintained a level of play for a long period of time, basically their whole careers. I know Lidstrom is a minus-2 this year but i attribute that to an unreal amount to injuries his team has suferred this year. detroit fans will argue the number of Norris trophies, Cups,gold medal and thrived in two eras of hockey and they'd be right. he is great.Boston fans would argue Bourque only played in one Olympic, but did play in the canada Cup. Does have the most goals,assists and points all time for a d-man. he did get jobbed out of at least 2 Norris trophies since people favored paul Coffeys points even though  he wasnt half the defensemen Bourque was. And they'd be right. So i guess either way you can't be wrong. Both awesome players, glad i got to see both play their whole careers.

    My Top 5
    1. Orr
    2. Lidstrom/Bourque
    3. Robinson
    4. Harvey
    5. Leetch
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    Yes, Isla, but the posts above mine weren't "my" hockey conversations.  They were someone else's.  I just chimed in.

    Ha!
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerwhidden. Show tylerwhidden's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    As much as I love Bourque and Orr, given the amount of teams and traveling and the differences between the league now and how it's changed over the past 10-20-30 years, if someone tried to make an argument that Lidstrom was the best ever, I would have to listen.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    tyler,

    you are entering a very sacred place.  be careful.  I will never argue anyone other than gretzky was better than Orr.  Orr is with gretzky in my eyes as in a league of their own.  Lidtsrom would have to be in talks for the best of all time if that were the case.  And I would definitely have him up there.  He is pretty darn amazing. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]I think it's too early to decide.  In order to judge a player's place in history for me, he has to be looked at many years after he retires.  Clearly Orr is the #1, but the #2 has been up for discussion forever.  Shore or Harvey generally lead the debate.  In all of my hockey conversations, I've never heard anyone suggest Bourque.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    the hockey news had a magazine out called the top 100 players of all time. their top 5 d were:  1. orr
                        2. harvey
                        3. shore
                        4. bourque
                        5. lidstrom

    i haven't seen the top 3 play so i can't really comment. i'd list 4 and 5 in that order, but that might be with my black and gold colored glasses.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    Orr, Harvey, Shore is sort of locked in stone because each guy was such a different animal than everyone else at the position in the same era.  No one touched Orr, and before him no one controlled the game from the blueline like Harvey, and before him no one affected the game in as many ways as Shore.

    If you're drawing connector lines, I think Lidstrom is this era's Harvey.  Bourque was his era's Shore - he hit, rushed, shot, passed as well as any defenseman of his day, and he could chuck 'em.  Hard to rank them ahead of the pioneers, though, and while I tend to like Shore's legacy more than Harvey's I also won't lose sleep over thinkng the Bruins had three of the top 5 defensemen in the history of the league no matter how they're ranked...after #1.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    No love for Brian Leetch? I think he has to be in the conversation. He was no slouch in his own end, i think it hurt him helayed in the same era as Bourque,Coffey,Chelios Macinnis etc..
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]Orr, Harvey, Shore is sort of locked in stone because each guy was such a different animal than everyone else at the position in the same era.  No one touched Orr, and before him no one controlled the game from the blueline like Harvey, and before him no one affected the game in as many ways as Shore. If you're drawing connector lines, I think Lidstrom is this era's Harvey.  Bourque was his era's Shore - he hit, rushed, shot, passed as well as any defenseman of his day, and he could chuck 'em.  Hard to rank them ahead of the pioneers, though, and while I tend to like Shore's legacy more than Harvey's I also won't lose sleep over thinkng the Bruins had three of the top 5 defensemen in the history of the league no matter how they're ranked...after #1.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    fantastic post
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]No love for Brian Leetch? I think he has to be in the conversation. He was no slouch in his own end, i think it hurt him helayed in the same era as Bourque,Coffey,Chelios Macinnis etc..
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    No love for Hunwick either.  Imagine that!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever? :  lidstrom is a good player but i have always thought he has been overated.
    Posted by uppercut[/QUOTE]

    No.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]Yes, Isla, but the posts above mine weren't "my" hockey conversations.  They were someone else's.  I just chimed in. Ha!
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Chiming in rang a bell for me.

    I feel the appropriate response was:
    touche

    Ha!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

    In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever? : Chiming in rang a bell for me. I feel the appropriate response was: touche Ha!
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Alright then Harvey was the second best.  Bad, touchy or touche?  NAS made a good point imo.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from east-westBsfan. Show east-westBsfan's posts

    Re: Nicklas Lidstrom- 2nd best DMan ever?

               
                      Bourque-- over 1500 points (Middleton,Neely,Oates,Janney----------)
                      Lidstrom-- 1,098 points (Yzerman,Shanahan,Federov,Chelios, Datsuk,
                      Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Coffee for a few years still in his prime)

                      Does it have to come down to who played an overall better D and 
                      took the body?

                      
                      










       
     

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