Osgood the hall of famer

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanInPenTerritory. Show BruinsFanInPenTerritory's posts

    Osgood the hall of famer

    Four hundred regular season wins, another 74 in the playoffs and three cups. While I'm sure a few of you will disagree, Ozzie's a hall of famer in my eyes.

    You don't just luck into a 17 year career spent primarily on the league's best time in that era. As we've seen these last few seasons, Detroit is old and slow at times. Without Osgood, they don't win the cup in 2008 and they don't maintain their very good run during the regular season in his career.

    Frankly, if I were building a team I would pick Osgood over the recently inducted Ed Belfour.

    The debate continues in Canada:
    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=372041
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    His save % has been below .900, in 7 of the past 11 seasons. That doesn't scream HALL OF FAME to me.
    My personal feeling, was that Detroit won cups, in spite of Osgood, not because of him.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nrguy. Show nrguy's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    For longevity, yes, for quality, not so much.

    Osgood couldn't have carried a team like the greats therefore I don't put him in the same category as the greats. Then again, I don't put him in the lower tier either. He wasn't great IMO so I don't believe he should be in.

    Then again the HOF is so watered down, who really pays attention to it anymore?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]For longevity, yes, for quality, not so much. Osgood couldn't have carried a team like the greats therefore I don't put him in the same category as the greats. Then again, I don't put him in the lower tier either. He wasn't great IMO so I don't believe he should be in. Then again the HOF is so watered down, who really pays attention to it anymore?
    Posted by nrguy[/QUOTE]
    It is becoming watered down for sure, more like the Hall of pretty good.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sclifton-4-freespeech. Show sclifton-4-freespeech's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]His save % has been below .900, in 7 of the past 11 seasons. That doesn't scream HALL OF FAME to me. My personal feeling, was that Detroit won cups, in spite of Osgood, not because of him.
    Posted by biggskye[/QUOTE]

    i have to agree with this post, playing in detroit had more to do with his success than detroit having success because of him. i would not put him in the hall, to me thats reserved for very special players.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    Never named to NHL's First All Star Team.
    Never won a Vezina Trophy.
    Never named to an international team (Team Canada in his case).

    Basically he was not an elite goalie in his time. Goodbye Hall Of Fame.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dave24. Show Dave24's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    I don't put a lot of stock in goalie wins as it is a team stat. Osgood played on loaded Detroit teams, which padded that total. How many seasons was he top 5 at his position?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanInPenTerritory. Show BruinsFanInPenTerritory's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    I knew I would get this reaction, but his stats are better than a few HHOFers. Grant Fuhr had a .887 career save percentage along with a 3.38 GAA. Osgood had a .905 SP and 2.49 GAA. That's almost a full goal more per game over the course of their careers. Fuhr's in the hall because he had Gretzky cheerleading for him.

    I'll make the argument that Osgood is the most underrated goalie in league history. Osgood didn't have to stand on his head every night, but he was there when the Wings needed him year-in, year-out.

    Of course, the hall is a complete joke given the Pat Burns debacle last year but that's another riff for another day.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE] Without Osgood, they don't win the cup in 2008 and they don't maintain their very good run during the regular season in his career.
    Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory[/QUOTE]


    If they didn't have Osgood and weren't allowed to replace him with another goaltender, then this statement rings true. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    Osgood is a hall of fame goaltender. Period. If you think teams win multiple Stanley Cups in spite of a goaltender then you really need to try and learn another sport, cause you failed at hockey. You cannot hide a goaltender. good,average, or below average goaltenders dont win 401 games,74 playoff games and 3 stanley cups. If anything he elevated his game come post season.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanInPenTerritory. Show BruinsFanInPenTerritory's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Osgood the hall of famer : If they didn't have Osgood and weren't allowed to replace him with another goaltender, then this statement rings true. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]Thanks for the snark NAS, you offered some very well-reasoned and informed points. Oh wait ... I'm sure I'll just go on your ignore list.

    But seriously, Osgood's a gamer.  He'll get the call for the HHOF at some point.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer : Thanks for the snark NAS, you offered some very well-reasoned and informed points. Oh wait ... I'm sure I'll just go on your ignore list. But seriously, Osgood's a gamer.  He'll get the call for the HHOF at some point.
    Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory[/QUOTE]

    He played well for many seasons.  I can't remember him putting on any "Tim-Thomas-like" playoff performances, however.  There were a lot of goaltenders that changed teams in the summer of 2006.  Osgood was a good goaltender behind a great team.  If he was replaced by Belfour or Biron, might they have still won the Cup?  Yes.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    False comparison. Fuhr's stats were solid for his time. Os-so-so, not really. You can make a case for him being elite 94-00 based on Sv%, but then you get to the playoffs that year and the only really good multi-round SV% was a cup year. 

    No not for me he doesn't make the cut.


    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]I knew I would get this reaction, but his stats are better than a few HHOFers. Grant Fuhr had a .887 career save percentage along with a 3.38 GAA. Osgood had a .905 SP and 2.49 GAA. That's almost a full goal more per game over the course of their careers. Fuhr's in the hall because he had Gretzky cheerleading for him. I'll make the argument that Osgood is the most underrated goalie in league history. Osgood didn't have to stand on his head every night, but he was there when the Wings needed him year-in, year-out. Of course, the hall is a complete joke given the Pat Burns debacle last year but that's another riff for another day.
    Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]I knew I would get this reaction, but his stats are better than a few HHOFers. Grant Fuhr had a .887 career save percentage along with a 3.38 GAA. Osgood had a .905 SP and 2.49 GAA. That's almost a full goal more per game over the course of their careers. Fuhr's in the hall because he had Gretzky cheerleading for him. I'll make the argument that Osgood is the most underrated goalie in league history. Osgood didn't have to stand on his head every night, but he was there when the Wings needed him year-in, year-out. Of course, the hall is a complete joke given the Pat Burns debacle last year but that's another riff for another day.
    Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory[/QUOTE]

    Before I defend you, I will reject comparing goalies' GAAs from Fuhrs day to a current goalie.  Goalies with a 3.38 were pretty good back then, especially when teams like Edmonton abandoned him back there most nights.  Comparing those stats to the ridiculous stats of today's goalies, especially pre-strike are not valid.

    That said, first I'd say Im usually someone who does not put as much stock in longevity stats or wins for goalies, but you cannot ignore the fact that only 9 other goalies in the history of the National Hockey League have more wins. It's ridiculous to ignore this.

    He was also a Jennings award winner twice and was named to the All Star team 4 times (didnt play in all due to injury).  Oh yeah, and there's 3 of those Cup thingies.

    I'd also point out that while Ozzie had the advantage of a great team in front of him, most goalies will tell you there's a different responsibility thats involved with playing for teams that are supposed to win.  Red Wings goalies in the past have been run out of town for not winning while barely giving up a couple goals a game.  Osgood was the starter in 2 of his 3 Cup wins, and plenty of fine goaltenders have failed in that role.  He gets credit for that.

    Given Osgood's body of work and the induction standard that has been set by the NHL (Mark Howe?), Osgood is a future Hall of Famer.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer : Before I defend you, I will reject comparing goalies' GAAs from Fuhrs day to a current goalie.  Goalies with a 3.38 were pretty good back then, especially when teams like Edmonton abandoned him back there most nights.  Comparing those stats to the ridiculous stats of today's goalies, especially pre-strike are not valid. That said, first I'd say Im usually someone who does not put as much stock in longevity stats or wins for goalies, but you cannot ignore the fact that only 9 other goalies in the history of the National Hockey League have more wins. It's ridiculous to ignore this. He was also a Jennings award winner twice and was named to the All Star team 4 times (didnt play in all due to injury).  Oh yeah, and there's 3 of those Cup thingies. I'd also point out that while Ozzie had the advantage of a great team in front of him, most goalies will tell you there's a different responsibility thats involved with playing for teams that are supposed to win.  Red Wings goalies in the past have been run out of town for not winning while barely giving up a couple goals a game.  Osgood was the starter in 2 of his 3 Cup wins, and plenty of fine goaltenders have failed in that role.  He gets credit for that. Given Osgood's body of work and the induction standard that has been set by the NHL (Mark Howe?), Osgood is a future Hall of Famer.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]
    So Osgood is a hall of famer, and "floppy" is a beer league goalie? Got it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer : So Osgood is a hall of famer, and "floppy" is a beer league goalie? Got it.
    Posted by biggskye[/QUOTE]

    I gave Thomas his due for his brilliant performance quite some time ago.  Try to keep up.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jalvis. Show jalvis's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    I have never viewed Osgood as a hall-of-famer.  Good, solid goalie on some great teams.  But I don't see him as one of the best goalies of his generation.  And that's what I think a hall-of-famer is.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer : I gave Thomas his due for his brilliant performance quite some time ago.  Try to keep up.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    I was talking about your 600 or so, earlier anti-Thomas posts.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]Osgood is a hall of fame goaltender. Period. If you think teams win multiple Stanley Cups in spite of a goaltender then you really need to try and learn another sport, cause you failed at hockey. You cannot hide a goaltender. good,average, or below average goaltenders dont win 401 games,74 playoff games and 3 stanley cups. If anything he elevated his game come post season.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    You have your opinion, I have mine. No need for the insults.
    I believe Detroit was a powerful team that was able to win with average goaltending.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    "Congratulations to Chris Osgood on a great career. And thank you for letting me score my first NHL goal on you!"
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    The number of Cups is also a flawed argument.  Cujo never won one.  He's in.  Thornton has two.  He'll never get in.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    If your the starting goaltender for 2 Stanley Cup Championship teams, the number of Cups helps the argument. I wouldnt use no Cups against Cujo, just like I would not hold no rings against Dan Marino. But the 2 Cups isn't flawed. It's factual. Maybe they win with another goalie, maybe the don't. I know they won them with him between the pipes, then I look and see him in the top 10 of all-time in wins. Looks like HOF to me.

    Lidstrom is a top 10 all-time d-man..He's always had great players in front of him.Is he HOF material?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dave24. Show Dave24's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    The lasting significance of Osgood is to disprove the notion that you need a great goalie to win the Cup. That's why the trend is to go away from $5+ million goalies (Flyers apparently didn't get the memo).
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Osgood the hall of famer : Before I defend you, I will reject comparing goalies' GAAs from Fuhrs day to a current goalie.  Goalies with a 3.38 were pretty good back then, especially when teams like Edmonton abandoned him back there most nights.  Comparing those stats to the ridiculous stats of today's goalies, especially pre-strike are not valid. That said, first I'd say Im usually someone who does not put as much stock in longevity stats or wins for goalies, but you cannot ignore the fact that only 9 other goalies in the history of the National Hockey League have more wins. It's ridiculous to ignore this. He was also a Jennings award winner twice and was named to the All Star team 4 times Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]
       Uh, aren't you the one that kept telling us over and over again, that regular season stats are meaningless?
    Funny how you would use them to support your arguement for Osgood, but in "floppy's" case, they don't mean a dam thing.
    I'm just trying to "keep up", like you requested, so which is it? Were you BS- ing
    for the past 3 years, or are you BS-ing now?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Osgood the hall of famer

    Osgood is not a hall of famer, not even close.  He was a good member of a very, very good team for a long time.  That does not make him one of the legends of the game.  Wins and cups are team stats.  At no point was he considered among the best goalies in the game.  Maybe for a year or two early on, kind of like Raycroft.  Osgood was good enough that he didn't let his team down, but he was hardly a dominant player.
     
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