Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    There's no question he's almost untouchable among goal-scorers.  Just an insane shooter, and he used to have an unparalled (among current players) ability to bull-rush the net without losing the puck or getting bodies off it.  I love watching highlights of Caps games to see what he comes up with.  Watching Caps games, though, is like that quote from one of the Golden Era movie sex symbols (I forget which one) who said every man wants to go to bed with a movie star but very few want to wake up with the woman behind the mask.  Ovechkin's game loses a lot of glamour when you watch 60 minutes of Caps hockey.  Saw him live in NYC a few years back and was utterly underwhelmed - partly because my expectation was so high. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    ”Get rid of this guy (Ovi) before the draft or you are gone. At the same time get something going to get rid of Green. I don't want either one on my team or on my payroll next year."

     

    Sure if Leonsis wanted Capital attendance to plummet. Ted Leonsis does not want this. The defensively-responsible-hockey-fan-outside-the-beltway does not fill the Verizon Center.

    McPhee has failed miserably at getting a proper defensive core in Washington.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There's no question he's almost untouchable among goal-scorers.  Just an insane shooter, and he used to have an unparalled (among current players) ability to bull-rush the net without losing the puck or getting bodies off it.  I love watching highlights of Caps games to see what he comes up with.  Watching Caps games, though, is like that quote from one of the Golden Era movie sex symbols (I forget which one) who said every man wants to go to bed with a movie star but very few want to wake up with the woman behind the mask.  Ovechkin's game loses a lot of glamour when you watch 60 minutes of Caps hockey.  Saw him live in NYC a few years back and was utterly underwhelmed - partly because my expectation was so high. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I saw him play twice book. The 1st game he was as advertised back then. A kamikaze sitting on a missile. He had a 2 goals, 1 assist & probably 6-8 hits & finished with a +2. He was an absolute joy to watch & it was the best overall individual performance I ever seen live. The 2nd time he was invisible unless it was the PP. He finished with a -3 & if he hit anything it was counted from the warmups when he chest bumped his teammates. Laziest superstar I ever seen play the game. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    NAS - are you serious on that first goal?  That perfectly illustrates nite's point!  Ovechkin skates over to force Phaneuf, and when Phaneuf gives up the puck, Ovechkin doesn't take another stride!  He glides from the offensive blueline back to his own zone while there's a 2 on 2 in progress.  Orlov pokes the puck away, and Ovechkin turns his back on the play while the puck is loose in the high slot and starts charging up ice!  When Bodie shoots, Ovechkin's not even in the zone!  Now, Bodie's not his man, and yeah, it's a 2 on 2, but the Leafs are changing their D pair.  There's no one for him to cover.  He's making no effort to apply back pressure at all.  He's not looking at the play - he's staring at the puck.  As soon as he sees it pop loose, he makes no effort to retrieve it.  Instead he hopes his linemate retrieves it (bad judgment considering a Leaf has inside position on him) so he can potentially take off for a scoring chance.

    That's just terrible effort.  If he's applying any back-pressure at all, he's probably able to take Bodie off that puck.  To be fair, Backstrom's effort is just as foetid, but at least he's near the play.



    Ovechkin is looking for the breakout pass.  As a scoring winger, that's exactly what he's supposed to do.  If the defense weren't such dopes, that puck is headed up the wall or maybe on a laser to the red line and it's a breakaway.

    The Caps need to sign Kessler this off season and give the team some three zone responsibility.  Star goal scoring wingers can't be blowing their tank below the hash marks.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    Winning will fill the Verizon Center.  Keep going this way, and plumetting is a given.  I think the criticism here is pretty balanced.  No one is arguing his offensive prowess.  No is saying he's single handedly killing the Russians, or the Caps.

    +- has it's holes, but it's obvious this guys tremendous upside, is almost negated by his overall contribution.  Plus, we know nothing of his attitude.  Anyone with his skill-set should be able to figure out how to at least be 'decent' when they don't have the puck.  It's almost like he refuses to even consider that part of the game.

    At 10ish per, unless I was in a non hockey market, and could exit his contract whenever I wanted(and that doesn't happen)....I wouldn't even consider him on my team.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    NAS - are you serious on that first goal?  That perfectly illustrates nite's point!  Ovechkin skates over to force Phaneuf, and when Phaneuf gives up the puck, Ovechkin doesn't take another stride!  He glides from the offensive blueline back to his own zone while there's a 2 on 2 in progress.  Orlov pokes the puck away, and Ovechkin turns his back on the play while the puck is loose in the high slot and starts charging up ice!  When Bodie shoots, Ovechkin's not even in the zone!  Now, Bodie's not his man, and yeah, it's a 2 on 2, but the Leafs are changing their D pair.  There's no one for him to cover.  He's making no effort to apply back pressure at all.  He's not looking at the play - he's staring at the puck.  As soon as he sees it pop loose, he makes no effort to retrieve it.  Instead he hopes his linemate retrieves it (bad judgment considering a Leaf has inside position on him) so he can potentially take off for a scoring chance.

    That's just terrible effort.  If he's applying any back-pressure at all, he's probably able to take Bodie off that puck.  To be fair, Backstrom's effort is just as foetid, but at least he's near the play.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ovechkin is looking for the breakout pass.  As a scoring winger, that's exactly what he's supposed to do.  If the defense weren't such dopes, that puck is headed up the wall or maybe on a laser to the red line and it's a breakaway.

     

    The Caps need to sign Kessler this off season and give the team some three zone responsibility.  Star goal scoring wingers can't be blowing their tank below the hash marks.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cam Neely was a goal scorer! He didn't float around & wait for everyone else to do the work for him!  Cory Perry & Steven Stamkos are goal scorers they don't float around. Soft arguement NAS! 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    Yeah, but he's looking for a breakout pass before his team has possession of the puck.  He!!, I think he's looking for a breakout pass the second Phaneuf releases the pass.  "Okay, it's by me, so I might as well hang out here and wait for the D to get it back."  I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't know who 19 yr old Carrick and 22 yr old Orlov are, which would explain why he doesn't seem to know that he's on with a couple of inexperienced dopes who might not be up to stopping the rush without some help.

    What he does on that goal is absolutely useless.  He's not a scoring winger there, he's a useless winger.  Sure, it's more or less what he should do, but I expect better reads on the situation from a superstar.  That's really it.  That, and I don't care who it is, I would want him to hustle back to the zone and defend.  I bet there are players out there who could score more - maybe not as much as Ovechkin, but more - if they were allowed to get away with that kind of defensive effort.  It also can't just be a bad Capitals management thing - every team he's on loses.  Bad crop of Russian defensemen?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxt. Show mxt's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    -31!!!! That is disgusting.

    If his teammates don't know the number, I'm sure they can see it by the way he plays.

    No wonder his team is sinking. He truly is a team killer: his own.

    He has lots of talent to please the peripheral hockey fans, to true hockey fans not so much. And if he's on your favourite team, surely, he must horrify you by now.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's an ugly stat to own, regardless of reason/blame.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ”Get rid of this guy (Ovi) before the draft or you are gone. At the same time get something going to get rid of Green. I don't want either one on my team or on my payroll next year."

     

    Sure if Leonsis wanted Capital attendance to plummet. Ted Leonsis does not want this. The defensively-responsible-hockey-fan-outside-the-beltway does not fill the Verizon Center.

    McPhee has failed miserably at getting a proper defensive core in Washington.

    [/QUOTE]

    They did offer Dale Hunter a contract extension and he turned it down so they went with Oates.If Hunter had taken them up on their offer defensive hockey is what they would have gotten,5 players standing in front of the goalie.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    the scary thing to me is the next worst plus minus on his team is a -17. how is that possible?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If I'm Leonsis, my instructions to McPhee would be this:

    ”Get rid of this guy (Ovi) before the draft or you are gone. At the same time get something going to get rid of Green. I don't want either one on my team or on my payroll next year."

    Seriously!

    Isn't it a great time to be a Bruins fan! Here we are advising other teams want they need to do; we can't complain about our team.

    [/QUOTE]

    see the problem is ovechkin makes that team a lot of money. if the owners about winning a stanley cup, he would trade ovechkin. However as long as that guys in town and the team is in the playoff hunt, he'll make money. I think he's happy with that. 

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Was any thread started when ovie was a plus 45

    Over the years he's learned to not know how to play without the puck

    Put him in Boston this year and he's a plus 30 min and AUTOCUP

    [/QUOTE]


    You are so fixated on your own point that you don't even bother to try to understand what other people are saying.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    Like Pavlov's dog.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Was any thread started when ovie was a plus 45

    Over the years he's learned to not know how to play without the puck

    Put him in Boston this year and he's a plus 30 min and AUTOCUP

    [/QUOTE]

    put him in boston and you might as well book his flight back to russia because CJ demands that his players play a winning brand of hockey, and ovechkin doesn't like to do that. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Was any thread started when ovie was a plus 45 --> 1

    Over the years he's learned to not know how to play without the puck --> 2

    Put him in Boston this year and he's a plus 30 min and AUTOCUP --> 3

    [/QUOTE]

    1. Oh, I'm sure there were a ton of threads about what a great player Ovechkin was.  But hey, let's have a look then vs. now, shall we?  Ovechkin had a 109 points that year.  He'll be lucky to hit 82 this year - so his scoring is down 27 points.  It's been signficantly lower than that every year since, though you could argue he had a half-season bounce back last year.  Compare the rosters and he's still go Backstrom. Semin's gone.  The murderers row of Steckel, Morrisson and Laich didn't help him get to 110 or so three straight years.  There weren't a ton of other guys who helped him out.  So - is Semin worth 27 points to Ovechkin on an annual basis (terrible that they let him go if that were true)?  Oh, and the D?  Green, 19 year old Carlson, Erskine, 21 yr old Alzner plus Jurcina, Morrisonn, and Tom Poti - three guys who were soooo good they went out and added Joe Corvo as an upgrade.  So it wasn't that the D was significantly better.  Nor was it coaching.  Boudreau's not exactly a defensive mastermind.  Goaltending?  Varlamov, Theodore and Neuvirth?  Nope, that's not it. 

    2. I agree, he didn't "unlearn" how to play without the puck.  But you know, when a guy isn't performing, it could be because he doesn't know what to do, or it could be he doesn't have the tools, but if he knows what to do and he has the tools to do it, then the only reason there's a performance problem is that he doesn't want to do it.  Ovechkin ain't doing it - that's the whole point here.  He also isn't scoring points the way he did c. 2007-10.  Why do you think that is?

    3. I think there's a very good chance that Ovechkin in Boston would get 30+ goals and be +4.  It would be a lot like Ovechkin under Dale Hunter.  Julien wouldn't care that he's "the Great 8", Chara wouldn't let him dog it without letting him know every time; ditto Lucic, Iginla, maybe even Bergeron.  He'd end up playing 15 min some games the way he did under Dale Hunter.  He'd finish with a Lucic-like 64 points.  He would play the system, or he'd be dealt.  That's how Boston wins.  I like winning.  I like watching Ovechkin highlights after enjoying a Bruins win.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Was any thread started when ovie was a plus 45 --> 1

    Over the years he's learned to not know how to play without the puck --> 2

    Put him in Boston this year and he's a plus 30 min and AUTOCUP --> 3

    [/QUOTE]

    1. Oh, I'm sure there were a ton of threads about what a great player Ovechkin was.  But hey, let's have a look then vs. now, shall we?  Ovechkin had a 109 points that year.  He'll be lucky to hit 82 this year - so his scoring is down 27 points.  It's been signficantly lower than that every year since, though you could argue he had a half-season bounce back last year.  Compare the rosters and he's still go Backstrom. Semin's gone.  The murderers row of Steckel, Morrisson and Laich didn't help him get to 110 or so three straight years.  There weren't a ton of other guys who helped him out.  So - is Semin worth 27 points to Ovechkin on an annual basis (terrible that they let him go if that were true)?  Oh, and the D?  Green, 19 year old Carlson, Erskine, 21 yr old Alzner plus Jurcina, Morrisonn, and Tom Poti - three guys who were soooo good they went out and added Joe Corvo as an upgrade.  So it wasn't that the D was significantly better.  Nor was it coaching.  Boudreau's not exactly a defensive mastermind.  Goaltending?  Varlamov, Theodore and Neuvirth?  Nope, that's not it. 

    2. I agree, he didn't "unlearn" how to play without the puck.  But you know, when a guy isn't performing, it could be because he doesn't know what to do, or it could be he doesn't have the tools, but if he knows what to do and he has the tools to do it, then the only reason there's a performance problem is that he doesn't want to do it.  Ovechkin ain't doing it - that's the whole point here.  He also isn't scoring points the way he did c. 2007-10.  Why do you think that is?

    3. I think there's a very good chance that Ovechkin in Boston would get 30+ goals and be +4.  It would be a lot like Ovechkin under Dale Hunter.  Julien wouldn't care that he's "the Great 8", Chara wouldn't let him dog it without letting him know every time; ditto Lucic, Iginla, maybe even Bergeron.  He'd end up playing 15 min some games the way he did under Dale Hunter.  He'd finish with a Lucic-like 64 points.  He would play the system, or he'd be dealt.  That's how Boston wins.  I like winning.  I like watching Ovechkin highlights after enjoying a Bruins win.

    [/QUOTE]

    agree with all of that. I also think a big reason for his decline in production is his time in the league. Other players caught on to what he likes to do. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If the Caps defense were the main cause of Ovechkin's plus/minus being so high wouldn't their numbers reflect that also.

    They don't.

    There is nobody on the team that is in the same area code as him as far as the plus/minus stats go.

    Some of you's are enamoured with his goal scoring. He is electric in that regard.

    Obviously you don't pay much attention to how he plays without the puck. His floating style of playing defense is downright pitiful to watch.




    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure he's a floater, but I have seen as soon as the Caps defense gets posession of the puck or looks like they might, he is off to the races. I'd have to imagine he is told to do this, since he does it just about everytime.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If the Caps defense were the main cause of Ovechkin's plus/minus being so high wouldn't their numbers reflect that also.

    They don't.

    There is nobody on the team that is in the same area code as him as far as the plus/minus stats go.

    Some of you's are enamoured with his goal scoring. He is electric in that regard.

    Obviously you don't pay much attention to how he plays without the puck. His floating style of playing defense is downright pitiful to watch.




    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure he's a floater, but I have seen as soon as the Caps defense gets posession of the puck or looks like they might, he is off to the races. I'd have to imagine he is told to do this, since he does it just about everytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    If he hasn't been told to do this,then the Caps coaching staff should have a talk with him or he isn't a very good listener.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    No just hockey kniwledge that is apparent elsewhere but not here

    Why did chia get iginla in calgary he was -18

    Ur picking on him making all these analogies without realizing how hard it is to score 50 in this day and age. You can't do that by being a notorious floater ....  unbelievable how you guys knock all the talented players. 

    Give him crosby and see how more likely they'd be to win cup.  Hes a one man machine backstrom ( not nearly enough) 

    [/QUOTE]

    this just proves you are not reading the posts.

    one person said "floating style of defense"

    He's a minus 31, he's obviously a talent, the point is - why?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    agree with all of that. I also think a big reason for his decline in production is his time in the league. Other players caught on to what he likes to do. 

    [/QUOTE]

    And yet he's leading the league in goals by a wide margin.  If they've "caught on", wouldn't his production stats drop?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not sure he's a floater, but I have seen as soon as the Caps defense gets posession of the puck or looks like they might, he is off to the races. I'd have to imagine he is told to do this, since he does it just about everytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    No one in the Caps front office is fooling themself.  They know they're not going to win the Cup this year.  Everyone does.

    So why not make the games exciting?  Without goals or a shot at the Cup, you're Buffalo!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    There are many similarities between Ovechkin and Seguin.  Difference is...Seguin is a much better deal, and he's young enough that maybe someday...somebody will get through to him.

    For 9.4, Washington has Ovi.  For just a wee bit less, the Bruins are employing David Krejki, Reilly Smith and Dennis Seidenberg.

    Much need of this going further?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Ovechkin is a -31. Repeat -31!

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are many similarities between Ovechkin and Seguin.  Difference is...Seguin is a much better deal, and he's young enough that maybe someday...somebody will get through to him.

    For 9.4, Washington has Ovi.  For just a wee bit less, the Bruins are employing David Krejki, Reilly Smith and Dennis Seidenberg.

    Much need of this going further?

    [/QUOTE]

    Not from me! 

     
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