Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728625&navid=nhl:topheads


    "John Ferguson Jr.'s major miscalculation eight years ago as the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs has served to stabilize the Boston Bruins goaltending for what should be years to come. Now that Ferguson has joined the Bruins as executive director of player personnel, he finally can cash in on the ability of the best player he drafted in his nearly five years in Toronto.


    Ferguson thought he was doing the right thing when he traded Rask to the Bruins for Raycroft. He thought Justin Pogge was the future No. 1 goalie in Toronto, meaning Rask, the No. 21 pick in the 2005 NHL Draft, was expendable, especially if the return was Raycroft, a goalie who was supposed to be entering his prime.


    As if Maple Leafs fans weren't angry enough about watching Rask become an elite NHL goalie, imagine how they'll feel if the person who traded him out of Toronto gets to raise the Cup with him in Boston. "To join an organization of this stature with this kind of success behind them really was a great fit for me," Ferguson said earlier this summer after Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli announced he had joined the front office. "It's a great opportunity to join Peter and a tremendous group with a record of winning. I just look forward to jumping aboard, grabbing an oar and helping the club win."


    Being that he's back in the Eastern Conference, back in the same division as the Maple Leafs, Ferguson's past is an obvious storyline. He's not running from it. "There are different reasons for it, but the entire experience [as Toronto GM] was invaluable and I wouldn't trade it for anything," Ferguson said.


    Toronto made the Stanley Cup Playoffs in 2004, but Ferguson barely put his stamp on that team because he was hired Aug. 29, 2003, only 44 days before the 2003-04 regular season began. The Maple Leafs didn't make the playoffs again under Ferguson, who was fired Jan. 22, 2008.


    "I said it at the time, and it's interesting too, I felt they had fired a better manager than they had hired," Ferguson said. "The five years of experience there really was invaluable in so many ways. Managing a club on your own, to have that seat, have that experience, really is nothing that frankly you can adequately prepare for. "I felt very prepared for it. … But there really is no substitute for that experience."


    While the decision to trade Rask has turned out to be a boon for the Bruins, Chiarelli is adamant in his belief of Ferguson as a talent evaluator. For the Bruins, Ferguson's past six seasons as the San Jose Sharks director of pro scouting is a better indication of what he now brings to Boston.


    The Sharks reached the Western Conference Final twice, won the Presidents' Trophy, and had four 100-point seasons during Ferguson's tenure as an aide to general manager Doug Wilson. He left the Sharks after last season to take the job with Boston.


    "I spent time with him during his time in Toronto and he got a raw deal; he really did," Chiarelli said. "This is a smart hockey man. This guy works hard and he knows players. I've known him for a long time and I see how he works and I see how he thinks.


    "In this business there are people that lose jobs and learn from those experiences and get better. … He's a smart guy, a humble guy, and he's really going to help our organization."


    Ferguson said San Jose's ability to maintain success while infusing young players into the lineup on the fly will be a model he brings with him to Boston. "To recognize when it's time to turn things over and bring in some youth and add some speed and energy, those are things that really stood us well," Ferguson said. "There were a couple of years where it looked like it was dropping off a little bit, but last year with the additions of [Tomas] Hertl, [Matt] Nieto, and the evolution of [Marc-Edouard] Vlasic and [Justin] Braun, [Joe] Pavelski and [Logan] Couture, it was a growth on the fly. To have sustained success over time, it requires that."


    Ferguson's role with the Bruins requires him to spend the bulk of his time working with the Providence Bruins, Boston's American Hockey League affiliate. He also will be involved in all the Bruins' personnel decisions and will go on scouting trips as well.


    Odds are he won't encourage Chiarelli to trade Rask."


    Now raise the cup with Rask in Boston and really rub it in. 


    Oh Lufa Land!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    Read this yesterday. The comments are funny...a lot of angry Leaf fans out there as well as apologists claiming Rask is overrated and folds under pressure. the latter is quite a good laugh considering they have only made the playoffs once in a generation and choked badly in their only round of the post-season.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    Read this yesterday. The comments are funny...a lot of angry Leaf fans out there as well as apologists claiming Rask is overrated and folds under pressure. the latter is quite a good laugh considering they have only made the playoffs once in a generation and choked badly in their only round of the post-season.

     

     




    You sure it's not just Shupe logging in under numerous different identities? 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    hahaha...very possible!

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Ferguson thought he was doing the right thing when he traded Rask to the Bruins for Raycroft. He thought Justin Pogge was the future No. 1 goalie in Toronto, meaning Rask, the No. 21 pick in the 2005 NHL Draft, was expendable, especially if the return was Raycroft, a goalie who was supposed to be entering his prime.

     


     I was always curious as to why they would think this. Pogge was drafted  a year ahead of Rask but picked in the 3rd round and was the 7th goalie picked and not even ranked as one of the top goalies by anyone. Montoya, Dubnyk, Schwarz, Schneider, and other were thought more highly of by scouting. Rask was picked the next year, 21st overall and was the #1 ranked European goalie. A year later, Pogge is having a very good season in the WHL and played well in front of a stacked Canadian Jr. team in the worlds.  Meanwhile Rask is being stellar in Finland and looking very much like he deserved to be ranked so high and a 1st round pick. And somehow Ferguson comes to the conclusion that Pogge is their future and Rask is expendable? Based on what, exactly?

    To make matters worse for Ferguson and the leafie fandom, the B's would have been happy to take Pogge instead of Rask. Had the B's not found a sucker for Raycroft he would have been released and the leafs could have scooped him up for free.

    Yeah, worst trade ever by the leafs. PC should tell fergie...."here's the deal...stay away from all goalies. In fact, I don't want you to even look at any of our goalies. Now, get outta here ya knucklehead".

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

      I was always curious as to why they would think this. Pogge was drafted  a year ahead of Rask but picked in the 3rd round and was the 7th goalie picked and not even ranked as one of the top goalies by anyone. Montoya, Dubnyk, Schwarz, Schneider, and other were thought more highly of by scouting. Rask was picked the next year, 21st overall and was the #1 ranked European goalie. A year later, Pogge is having a very good season in the WHL and played well in front of a stacked Canadian Jr. team in the worlds.  Meanwhile Rask is being stellar in Finland and looking very much like he deserved to be ranked so high and a 1st round pick. And somehow Ferguson comes to the conclusion that Pogge is their future and Rask is expendable? Based on what, exactly?




     Considering he was hired at  a young age with little experience by a organization infamous for being top-heavy with many decision-making personalities I think it quite likely the decision to trade Rask was not really his alone but made under advisement. Its not like he had the autonomy like a Rutherford or Sather after all.

    Credit to him though, he bore the brunt of responsibility for this well and was a good soldier. He is older now and, hopefully, a bit wiser from his TO experience.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:



     Considering he was hired at  a young age with little experience by a organization infamous for being top-heavy with many decision-making personalities I think it quite likely the decision to trade Rask was not really his alone but made under advisement. Its not like he had the autonomy like a Rutherford or Sather after all.

    Credit to him though, he bore the brunt of responsibility for this well and was a good soldier. He is older now and, hopefully, a bit wiser from his TO experience.

    It's a fair point and I agree. He seems like a stand up guy.

     

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    I think so too. He was under heavy scrutiny working in the fishbowl that is TO and the intense criticizing by those fans can be over the top to say the least. He took his lumps with class.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    If the Bruins trade Subban for a washed up goalie and declare Svedberg their goaltending future, I will place all of the blame on Fergie.  Maybe that's PC's plan?  Trade Subban and if it fails he can blame Fergie?  PC, you so clever.  I don't see any other reason to hire the guy.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to OatesCam's comment:

    If the Bruins trade Subban for a washed up goalie and declare Svedberg their goaltending future, I will place all of the blame on Fergie.  Maybe that's PC's plan?  Trade Subban and if it fails he can blame Fergie?  PC, you so clever.  I don't see any other reason to hire the guy.



    Gratitude? lol

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    Like PC, he got his start working for the Senioritas from 1993-1996.

    I thought I'd dig a bit, but you know?  He was in the front office in hockey ops in St. Louis for years and during his tenure, they didn't draft well at all - the drafted Jackman while he was there, and Backes just before he left.

    In Toronto, his drafts were similarly banal outside of Rask - though in 2006, he almost ran the table with every pick playing at least half a season except the 6th rounder: Tlusty, Kulemin, Reimer, Holzer, Stalberg, and Komarov.  The only one of those guys who is a top half of the roster guy might be Tlusty - maybe Kulemin if you're bad enough - but all of them could play a role on an NHL team.  Ok, Holzer's a stretch.

    1993-1996, when he was scouting/front office in Ottawa, they drafted Daigle1  then Bonk, then Berard, then Phillips.  That's 3 first overall picks and bust, sluggo, dealt, serviceable to unspectacular player.  The later rounds turned up Alfredsson and Demitra, so that's a bit of a saving grace.

    So - keep him away from trades, and keep him away from the draft table and the scouts, please.  I guess he'll be working with the P-Bruins a lot...and actually, if I had to put money on one reason for them to hire this guy, it's that he was the architect of a few minor league moves.  I wonder if the Bruins are considering a new location for the AHL team?

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    1993-1996, when he was scouting/front office in Ottawa, they drafted Daigle1 then Bonk, then Berard, then Phillips. That's 3 first overall picks and bust, sluggo, dealt, serviceable to unspectacular player. The later rounds turned up Alfredsson and Demitra, so that's a bit of a saving grace.

     

    Hindsight is 20/20 but I think I could have had better luck.  I know scheisse on the draft.  Why so much love for the Make Beliefs on this forum???? Yikes. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    Depends if St. Louis and Ottawa listened to Ferguson's recommendations or not. Some GMs don't listen and pick who they want. That's how the Bruins ended up with Jonsson and Samuelsson in 2000.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Depends if St. Louis and Ottawa listened to Ferguson's recommendations or not. Some GMs don't listen and pick who they want. That's how the Bruins ended up with Jonsson and Samuelsson in 2000.




     Damn that was a bad draft for the B's!!!

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from -Chowda-. Show -Chowda-'s posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    This is JF Jr's trade tracker from his Leaf days as GM.

    Other then the Rask f up, his trade history was more positive then negative.





    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date San Jose Sharks acquire
    Mark Bell
    Vesa Toskala
    June 22, 2007
    2007 2nd round pick (#44-Aaron Palushaj)
    2009 4th round pick (#98-Craig Smith)
    conditional 1st round pick (2007 #13-Lars Eller)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Phoenix Coyotes acquire
    Yanic Perreault
    2008 5th round pick (#129-Joel Champagne)
    February 27, 2007
    Brendan Bell
    2008 2nd round pick (#38-Roman Josi)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Phoenix Coyotes acquire
    Tyson Nash
    2007 4th round pick (#99-Matt Frattin)
    November 27, 2006
    Mikael Tellqvist

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Phoenix Coyotes acquire
    2006 6th round pick (#161-Viktor Stalberg)
    June 24, 2006
    2006 7th round pick (#188-Chris Frank)
    2006 7th round pick (#196-Benn Ferriero)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Boston Bruins acquire
    Andrew Raycroft
    June 24, 2006
    rights to Tuukka Rask

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Chicago Blackhawks acquire
    2006 4th round pick (#111-Korbinian Holzer)
    2006 4th round pick (#99-James Reimer)
    June 24, 2006
    2006 3rd round pick (#76-Tony Lagerstrom)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Boston Bruins acquire
    2006 7th round pick (#188-Chris Frank)
    June 15, 2006
    rights to Petr Tenkrat

    New Jersey Devils acquire Date Toronto Maple Leafs acquire
    Ken Klee
    March 8, 2006
    Aleksander Suglobov

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Columbus Blue Jackets acquire
    Luke Richardson
    March 8, 2006
    2006 5th round pick or 2007 4th round pick (2006 #136-Nick Sucharski)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Dallas Stars acquire
    2006 conditional 6th round pick (#180-Leo Komarov)
    November 6, 2005
    Nathan Perrott

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date St. Louis Blues acquire
    Johnny Pohl
    August 24, 2005
    future considerations

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Carolina Hurricanes acquire
    Jeff O`Neill
    July 30, 2005
    2006 conditional 4th round pick (#106-Reto Berra)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Carolina Hurricanes acquire
    Ron Francis
    March 9, 2004
    2005 4th round pick (#101-Jared Boll)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date New York Rangers acquire
    Brian Leetch
    conditional draft pick (2004 #113-Roman Kukumberg)
    March 3, 2004
    Jarkko Immonen
    Maxim Kondratiev
    2004 1st round pick (#24-Kris Chucko)
    2005 2nd round pick (#40-Michael Sauer)

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
    Drake Berehowsky
    February 11, 2004
    Richard Jackman

    Toronto Maple Leafs acquire Date Minnesota Wild acquire
    2003 3rd round pick (#91-Martin Sagat)
    2003 4th round pick (#125-Konstantin Volkov)
    June 21, 2003
    2003 3rd round pick (#78-Danny Irmen)


     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    Sure. He did a bang up job there. Can't believe they fired him.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    There's not much in that trade history that you could say is significant, either.  If there's anything positive in it, it's that it doesn't look like he overpaid the way he did for Raycroft, except maybe to get 15 games and 2 playoff rounds out of Brian Leetch, and to try and correct his Raycroft/Pogge mistake.  I mean, Toskala and Bell for a first, a second and a fourth?  Toskala proved as bad or worse than Raycroft, and the first round pick they gave up was higher than Rask's 21st overall.

    The way Roman Josi played for Nashville last year, you wouldn't want to be the guy who traded that pick away for 17 games of Yanic Perreault.  Tyson Nash never played a game for the Leafs.  All the trade down moves re: the 2006 draft look pretty good because they made decent choices in that one draft and that one draft alone.  Luke Richardson played 21 games for them after they brought him back.  The Klee deal was a salary dump.  O'Neill was Jeff O'Neill for two years before he couldn't keep up any more.  Francis and Leetch were rentals - Francis played 12 games in Toronto, scored 3 goals, and retired.

    Most of the others are nothing deals.  The more I look at it, the more I remember the JFJR era in Toronto as a time when they seemed to be collecting hockey cards and not building a team.  If you had ever been a good NHL player, and no one wanted you any more, then Toronto was the place for you!  Eric Lindros, Jason Allison, Chad Kilger....  And as a result, they ditched some good young guys like Steen for Stempniak (though after JFJR).  Just a disaster.  Keep him away from the trade floor, too.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    Y'know...the more I look at this and think about it the more I'm baffled by the hiring of this guy by the B's. He lives near Providence so other than he's conveniently located I don't get it.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

    Y'know...the more I look at this and think about it the more I'm baffled by the hiring of this guy by the B's. He lives near Providence so other than he's conveniently located I don't get it.

     




     Aww, give him a chance.....

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

    Y'know...the more I look at this and think about it the more I'm baffled by the hiring of this guy by the B's. He lives near Providence so other than he's conveniently located I don't get it.

     




     Aww, give him a chance.....

     



    "How much harm could he do?" - Famous Last Words

    As fans, we see GMs and front office guys in a very limited light.  Like a General Contractor, a GM is really responsible for going out and hiring the guys who will evaluate talent, hiring the guys who will develop the prospects, hiring the guys who will structure the SPCs and offers for players, etc. etc. etc.  They probably spend as much or more of their time working with the Garden management, working with marketing and sales, working with the league's GMs on league wide initiatives on competition, safety, discipline etc. etc. The part of all of that that I think JFJR might be best at is the relationship between the parent club and the minor league affiliates - so Don Sweeney is the player development guy, but JFJR is the business guy who keeps that financial and management considerations the P-Bruins might have from interfering with the plans Sweeney has.

    As tough as John Ferguson was, I don't think the thread of Fergie beating PC up (or the Laffs board or the Sharts management) got him a GM job in the NHL or a front office exec office.  He must have some strengths.


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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    I don't see how Benning affected the Bruins in a negative way except maybe at the draft table. When it comes down to it, PC has the final word on which player is picked at the draft and looks to me Julien has a lot of clout with whom comes up Providence.

    There is no way Neely allows anyone to effect Sweeney's influence in Providence, especially on the young defenseman, with Don helping mentor on what helped McQuaid and Boychuk. 

    If JF JR doesn't want a quick exit out of Boston he will stay out of Sweeney's way. I don't see how JFJR could advise Chiarelli any worse than Benning did. See drafting from 2007 through 2009 by the Bruins.

    Were those drafts bad advice from Benning ? or Chiarelli not listening to his scouts ?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    I don't see how Benning affected the Bruins in a negative way except maybe at the draft table. When it comes down to it, PC has the final word on which player is picked at the draft and looks to me Julien has a lot of clout with whom comes up Providence.

    There is no way Neely allows anyone to effect Sweeney's influence in Providence, especially on the young defenseman, with Don helping mentor on what helped McQuaid and Boychuk. 

    If JF JR doesn't want a quick exit out of Boston he will stay out of Sweeney's way. I don't see how JFJR could advise Chiarelli any worse than Benning did. See drafting from 2007 through 2009 by the Bruins.

    Were those drafts bad advice from Benning ? or Chiarelli not listening to his scouts ?

    Did someone say Benning had a negative influence?  If so, I missed it (but he was sure vocal about cutting bait with Seguin). 

    I was thinking about the business development side of working with the affiliate, not the talent side.

    In terms of 2007-2009, I'm trying to remember the timelines on Chiarelli cutting bait with the old staff - the Gorton group.  I think it was right around then that guys like Mike Chiarelli, Holtari, Leblanc, and Malkoc.  That's the primary amateur scout in Ontario, Quebec, and the Western Leagues and a Finland-based European scout.  Notice anything about the influence that group has had on the last couple of drafts?  Scott Fitzgerald is now Asst. Dir. of amateur scouting, and he came on in 2006, but I don't know if it was in that role.

    I think you can chalk those drafts up to PC not trusting the staff that was in place and wanting his own guys, and then maybe trusting his own guys too much. 

    "Holy k-rap, who are the scouts who said we should take this lazy fat kid Kessel?  Clear the decks!!"

    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    Yah the same scouts that had a great draft in 2004 and 2006 with Gorton. PC kept that group for awhile before he jettisoned them. My point on Benning was he was well liked by fans and the Bruins front office but we don't know, no one knows, how much influence he on the drafts that were deemed good or bad.

    JFJR could suggest a who's who of Craig Buttons, unbiased (eh hem), OHL love stories but Chiarelli might draft an Ex-Bruins son or nephew along with a goalie and New England prep player...then BDC will explode...again.

    Don't know if Benning made good suggestions at the draft table. Seguin being jettisoned was not draft related. Paille's suggestion from Benning was brilliant. MOCs scouts at the 2004 and 2006 Draft were real good and I know MOC listened to them, that time, because he admitted on Boston radio a few years ago he would never make the 2000 Draft mistake again.

    I think it is pointless to think that JFJR could ruin the team because PC could turn around and draft who he wants no matter what is suggested by his new staff.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from -Chowda-. Show -Chowda-'s posts

    Re: Over the Boards: Bruins believe in Ferguson's ability

    In response to jmwalters' comment:





     Aww, give him a chance.....


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Sounds like you've already made up your mind too on this guy. A follow the leader type of thinking.

    Let me be the first before the Bruins even played a game with Ferguson in the fold.

    The "fire Ward" posters now have a new whipping boy in management.............

    Fire Ferguson !

     
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