PC Presser

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Why did PC hold this presser to begin with? What purpose does it serve? I don't see the upside. 

    This was a pretty big story/event that ended badly for the Bruins.  Chiarelli wanted to clear the air and let eveyone know what happened.

    I think it's pretty awesome that he did.




    And he didn't have too but PC knew how thick the air was, knew the fanbase wanted an explanation. So he came out and answered questions honestly.

    "You get back on your horse and get back at it again"

    Then he laughed, that was awesome. He knows he would not have done that to Feaster.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    I didn't mean you. I figure you've got a handle on it. Ask yourself if you think PC would've upped the offer if that's all it would've taken to nail it down? I think he would've offered anything within reason to get it done but it seems he wasn't presented with the opportunity to counter. Iginla earned the right to choose and he used it.

     



    Yes, I agree that he would have offered a heck of a lot more, not including Subban or most current NHLers.  Not knowing what else was being offered, however, I think he should have offered more out of the gate.

    I disagree that Iginla earned the right to choose.  He was given the right to choose because Feaster had both offers and (as I understand it) felt they were the same so he "did right by Iginla" by letting him pick between the two teams.  If Pittsburgh's offer wasn't the same quality (again...in Feaster's mind), he wouldn't have presented it Iginla at all.

    Imagine this:

    The B's offer what they did.

    The Penguins offer two second round picks and a third round pick only.

    In that case, Feaster wouldn't have given Iginla the opportunity to choose.  He would have asked Iginla to accept the trade to Boston and Iginla would have done so.  I think Chiarelli should have offered more because he didn't know what else was being thrown around.  For lower players, sure, make the offer and walk away.  For the opportunity to acquire a player of this caliber, he should have emailed a link to the Hockey's Future page and said, "Okay.  Pick any three not including Subban."

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:




    Everyone in the hockey world felt the Bruins made a better offer. What is it you don't understand? Should PC have offered Chara and Seguin and then tossed in Hamilton if Feaster refused? What would the "best deal on the table" be for instance? Seriously, what do you think PC should've offered to make Iginla like Boston more than Pitt?

     



    If the offer was better, Iginla may not have seen the offer from Pitt at all. 

    Well, that's my take anyway.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    I didn't mean you. I figure you've got a handle on it. Ask yourself if you think PC would've upped the offer if that's all it would've taken to nail it down? I think he would've offered anything within reason to get it done but it seems he wasn't presented with the opportunity to counter. Iginla earned the right to choose and he used it.

     

     

     



    Yes, I agree that he would have offered a heck of a lot more, not including Subban or most current NHLers.  Not knowing what else was being offered, however, I think he should have offered more out of the gate.

     

    I disagree that Iginla earned the right to choose.  He was given the right to choose because Feaster had both offers and (as I understand it) felt they were the same so he "did right by Iginla" by letting him pick between the two teams.  If Pittsburgh's offer wasn't the same quality (again...in Feaster's mind), he wouldn't have presented it Iginla at all.

    Imagine this:

    The B's offer what they did.

    The Penguins offer two second round picks and a third round pick only.

    In that case, Feaster wouldn't have given Iginla the opportunity to choose.  He would have asked Iginla to accept the trade to Boston and Iginla would have done so.  I think Chiarelli should have offered more because he didn't know what else was being thrown around.  For lower players, sure, make the offer and walk away.  For the opportunity to acquire a player of this caliber, he should have emailed a link to the Hockey's Future page and said, "Okay.  Pick any three not including Subban."

     

     




    But it all comes back to Iginla having to green light any deal. He can simply refuse to leave and play out his contract. Feaster's choices were trade Iginla somewhere he'd agree to or buy him out. He traded him to the place he agreed to.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    Yes, I agree that he would have offered a heck of a lot more, not including Subban or most current NHLers.  Not knowing what else was being offered, however, I think he should have offered more out of the gate.

     

    I disagree that Iginla earned the right to choose.  He was given the right to choose because Feaster had both offers and (as I understand it) felt they were the same so he "did right by Iginla" by letting him pick between the two teams.  If Pittsburgh's offer wasn't the same quality (again...in Feaster's mind), he wouldn't have presented it Iginla at all.

    Imagine this:

    The B's offer what they did.

    The Penguins offer two second round picks and a third round pick only.

    In that case, Feaster wouldn't have given Iginla the opportunity to choose.  He would have asked Iginla to accept the trade to Boston and Iginla would have done so.  I think Chiarelli should have offered more because he didn't know what else was being thrown around.  For lower players, sure, make the offer and walk away.  For the opportunity to acquire a player of this caliber, he should have emailed a link to the Hockey's Future page and said, "Okay.  Pick any three not including Subban."

     




    Then there's "the gap."  PC last hears from Feaster at around noon and they agree to scratch their players.  Then what was going on for the next 14 hours?

    My guess is there was back & forth between Iginla and Feaster - and a lot of that was Iginla pushing for Pittsburg.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:




    Everyone in the hockey world felt the Bruins made a better offer. What is it you don't understand? Should PC have offered Chara and Seguin and then tossed in Hamilton if Feaster refused? What would the "best deal on the table" be for instance? Seriously, what do you think PC should've offered to make Iginla like Boston more than Pitt?

     

     

     



    If the offer was better, Iginla may not have seen the offer from Pitt at all. 

     

    Well, that's my take anyway.




    Couldnt agree more. Feaster felt he had two similair offers, close enough to the point where he let Iginla choose. Also, don't forget the Bruins 1st round draft choice was conditional on him re-signing. I don't think the Penguins is. Thats pretty significant, I know it will be a lower round pick but, but it's still a 1st rounder thats not conditional.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    But it all comes back to Iginla having to green light any deal. He can simply refuse to leave and play out his contract. Feaster's choices were trade Iginla somewhere h'd agree to or buy him out. He traded him to the place he agreed to.

     



    Yes, this is 100% true.  Prior to being given the opportunity to select Pittsburgh, Iginla (according to "them") had submitted four teams he'd agree to.  One of them was Boston.  If the Bruins offer was that much better than the Pitt offer, Iginla would have agreed to the deal without having an opportunity to pick.

    "Hey Jarome.  I got a deal to send you to Boston, okay?"

    - What are my other options?

    "Well, you can stay here and golf while everyone else plays for the Cup."

    - Where should I pahk my cah?  Let's do it!

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     


    Couldnt agree more. Feaster felt he had two similair offers, close enough to the point where he let Iginla choose. Also, don't forget the Bruins 1st round draft choice was conditional on him re-signing. I don't think the Penguins is. Thats pretty significant, I know it will be a lower round pick but, but it's still a 1st rounder thats not conditional.

     




    or - Feaster tells Iginla Boston's offer - giving him time to digest it as PC said.  And then Iginla says, o gee whiz, I really want to play with crybaby.  What if the Pens can match the deal?  Feaster calls Shero, tells him the deal on the table and asks if he can match...  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    or - Feaster tells Iginla Boston's offer - giving him time to digest it as PC said.  And then Iginla says, o gee whiz, I really want to play with crybaby.  What if the Pens can match the deal?  Feaster calls Shero, tells him the deal on the table and asks if he can match...  



    I don't think that's how it works on many different levels.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    Couldnt agree more. Feaster felt he had two similair offers, close enough to the point where he let Iginla choose. Also, don't forget the Bruins 1st round draft choice was conditional on him re-signing. I don't think the Penguins is. Thats pretty significant, I know it will be a lower round pick but, but it's still a 1st rounder thats not conditional.

    or - Feaster tells Iginla Boston's offer - giving him time to digest it as PC said.




    ^This is where somehow people get lost in translation. There is no reason to tell Iginla what or who is going the other way. What does Jerome care ? This means nothing with everyone knowing Iginla always wanted to go to Pittsburgh. Understandable with Crosby in the background pushing.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    I think our next step is to purchase the Zapruder film from Time Corp. and analyse the incident frame by frame.....oh wait, that was JFK.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

     

    or - Feaster tells Iginla Boston's offer - giving him time to digest it as PC said.  And then Iginla says, o gee whiz, I really want to play with crybaby.  What if the Pens can match the deal?  Feaster calls Shero, tells him the deal on the table and asks if he can match...  

     



    I don't think that's how it works on many different levels.

     




    at least one thing is for sure, PC said outright that they both agreed to scratch their players and that they wanted to tell Iginla and let him absorb it.

    I watched the Q&A session twice, and that's paraphrased from what he said.  He also said he did that because Iginla was a player of 'magnitude'

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:




    Everyone in the hockey world felt the Bruins made a better offer. What is it you don't understand? Should PC have offered Chara and Seguin and then tossed in Hamilton if Feaster refused? What would the "best deal on the table" be for instance? Seriously, what do you think PC should've offered to make Iginla like Boston more than Pitt?

     

     

     



    If the offer was better, Iginla may not have seen the offer from Pitt at all. 

     

    Well, that's my take anyway.




    Feister should be plenty embarrassed too.  This isn't a silent auction, it's a negotiation, so any idea of "offering up more" doesn't cut it.  Seeing how things went down, it's obvious Iginla finagled Feister much better than Bourque did Sinden.  If we don't get too caught up in conspiracy and drama...if we choose to believe that most are somewhat telling the truth here.....many things are obvious.

    1.  The Flames didn't negotiate the luxury of "not" divulging each trade scenario, thereby transferring all of the power to Iginla.

    2.  Feister didn't due what he should have, by making sure Iginla signed off "first", to any trade involving the clubs he presented.

    3.  Regardless what anyone is offering, any decent negotiator will play the field to up the ante.  Again, this ain't no "sealed bid process".  Like Mike O'Connels gaffe with Thorton, the onus is on the seller, to maximise return, not the buyer.  If PC would have given more, that's Feister's short coming.

    4.  Since everyone whose ever held a hockey stick knows the Bruins presented the best deal....it becomes glaringly obvious, this was about something different than mere "return".(both prospects unsigned to date)

    5.  If PC was told the deal was "done", why in the world would he offer up more.  Since no one has stepped up to challenge PC's presser on that statement, it probably can be considered truthful.  If factual, this should take PC completely off the hook.

    6.  Doesn't matter what anyone says, the way this thing went down is a terrible way to conduct business.  The fact that PC says it happens with some regularity, and makes a weak attempt to defend it, makes it all the more sickening.  The Mob has much higher ethical standards.  

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    "I'm not sure if he had the choice in the end. I didn't. I asked to go to a contending team..."-  Bourque

    "Harry didn't come back to me in the end and ask me what I thought about Colorado. I thought I was going to Philly."- Bourque

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxt. Show mxt's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Why are some still stating that our first rounder was conditional? According to PC, it was not. So Feaster turned done what most likely be a higher pick as well.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    "I'm not sure if he had the choice in the end. I didn't. I asked to go to a contending team..."-  Bourque

    "Harry didn't come back to me in the end and ask me what I thought about Colorado. I thought I was going to Philly."- Bourque




    I don't think there was any such thing as the NMC back then was there San? Bourque was treated well out of respect more than anything else.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    "I'm not sure if he had the choice in the end. I didn't. I asked to go to a contending team..."-  Bourque

    "Harry didn't come back to me in the end and ask me what I thought about Colorado. I thought I was going to Philly."- Bourque

    I don't think there was any such thing as the NMC back then was there San?




    Nope

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

     

    "I'm not sure if he had the choice in the end. I didn't. I asked to go to a contending team..."-  Bourque

    "Harry didn't come back to me in the end and ask me what I thought about Colorado. I thought I was going to Philly."- Bourque

     




    I don't think there was any such thing as the NMC back then was there San? Bourque was treated well out of respect more than anything else.

     




    There were "no trade" clauses.  I remember Esposito talking about the fact that he easily could have negotiated one in his final Bruins contract, but didn't cuz "he never wanted to be around if the team didn't feel the same way".  In reality, he was probably just sure he'd never be traded.

    Anyway, pretty sure they were around in the 70's.  Thought 77 had one, but not sure.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowboys9. Show cowboys9's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    Couldnt agree more. Feaster felt he had two similair offers, close enough to the point where he let Iginla choose. Also, don't forget the Bruins 1st round draft choice was conditional on him re-signing. I don't think the Penguins is. Thats pretty significant, I know it will be a lower round pick but, but it's still a 1st rounder thats not conditional.

     

    or - Feaster tells Iginla Boston's offer - giving him time to digest it as PC said.


    ^This is where somehow people get lost in translation. There is no reason to tell Iginla what or who is going the other way. What does Jerome care ? This means nothing with everyone knowing Iginla always wanted to go to Pittsburgh. Understandable with Crosby in the background pushing.

     

    Correct... Once a player submitts a list of teams that he is willing to be traded for , that player is then out of the process and the team sets out to get the best deal they can....  Feaster made a deal with the Bruins and for all intents and purposes completed the deal and PC thought he had the player.  As PC stated clearly " at no time were we told Jarome would have final sign off on the deal"  This is where Feaster led PC down the garden path... What should have happened was that Feaster walks up to Jerome and says " We have traded you to Boston.. can I drive you to the airport ? "

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to cowboys9's comment:

     

     

    Correct... Once a player submitts a list of teams that he is willing to be traded for , that player is then out of the process and the team sets out to get the best deal they can....  Feaster made a deal with the Bruins and for all intents and purposes completed the deal and PC thought he had the player.  As PC stated clearly " at no time were we told Jarome would have final sign off on the deal"  This is where Feaster led PC down the garden path... What should have happened was that Feaster walks up to Jerome and says " We have traded you to Boston.. can I drive you to the airport ? "

     




     

    What you are describing is a limited NMC which is defined as:

    Limited NMCs simply mean the player's contract includes specific terms for the clauses, usually allowing the player to specify a no-trade list of undesireable teams or a trade list of desireable teams.


    What Iginla has is a full NMC:

    A no-move clause means a player cannot be traded, waived for a claim by another team, or assigned to the minors without his consent. This does not protect the player from a buyout.


    We may not like it but Iginla did what his contract allowed him to do.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Did Iginla have a full NMC?  Because there are different types.  For some of them, the player has to give a list of teams he will accept a trade to beforehand.  That's what is going on most of the times we hear about players giving a list of teams he will accept a trade to.  In those cases, the GM has sole choice of which team.  If he had a full NMC, he may not have had this requirement and only gave those teams as a courtesy.  Which is to say, it may have been a non-binding list.

    There's no need to assume that Feaster told Iginla what would be coming back to Calgary.  All that needed to happen is Feaster saying "I've accepted Boston's offer", and Iginla replying "I've decided I'm not going to wave my NMC for them.  I want to be a Penguin."

    I'm not sure Feaster is the type to try to strong-arm a player into accepting a trade to a place other than his one choice.

    Edit: I knew I typed that too slowly.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    Show of hands ...who thinks PC put his best deal on the table ?

     




    Thing is JW, if Boston offered Lucic and a first and Fleeceder said to Jarome "will you go?" and Jarome said "no, I think I want to go to Pittsburgh," it wouldn't matter.  Giving a list is not the same as waiving your contract right to veto a move.

    I don't know how much higher PC would have gone to get Iginla.  I also don't know if Chiarelli understood he was in a "blind auction" and maybe if that had been clear to him, he might have thrown in something of value - another pick or a B prospect?  But I still don't know how even Caron, Krug or Tardif add anything like the kind of value you'd need to make Fleeceder say to Iginla that he either accepts the Bruin deal or he can go home for the rest of the year.  There is no way to force Iginla to accept a deal to the Bruins, and it really seems to be that what changed in teh middle of the day was Iginla realized he wanted to play with Crosby.  Game over.  But it would have been hi-freaking-larious if PC came out and said "well, we offered Calgary Seguin, Hamilton and Subban for him, but Feaster went with Pittsburgh's offer instead."

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowboys9. Show cowboys9's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to jmwalters's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to cowboys9's comment:

     

     

    Correct... Once a player submitts a list of teams that he is willing to be traded for , that player is then out of the process and the team sets out to get the best deal they can....  Feaster made a deal with the Bruins and for all intents and purposes completed the deal and PC thought he had the player.  As PC stated clearly " at no time were we told Jarome would have final sign off on the deal"  This is where Feaster led PC down the garden path... What should have happened was that Feaster walks up to Jerome and says " We have traded you to Boston.. can I drive you to the airport ? "

     




     

    What you are describing is a limited NMC which is defined as:

    Limited NMCs simply mean the player's contract includes specific terms for the clauses, usually allowing the player to specify a no-trade list of undesireable teams or a trade list of desireable teams.


    What Iginla has is a full NMC:

    A no-move clause means a player cannot be traded, waived for a claim by another team, or assigned to the minors without his consent. This does not protect the player from a buyout.


    We may not like it but Iginla did what his contract allowed him to do.

    Thanks JW.. I was not aware that Iginla had a full NMC... which then makes this charade trade list of 3 or 4 teams even worse.. Bruins never had a chance.. why even bother with the list if you made up your mind to go to Pittsburgh..just tell Fat Feaster to work out a deal with Pittsburgh. I thought Iginla was above that, apparently not... I think a lot of chatter went on behind the scenes here which we will never find out... and PC got left holding the bag.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Calgary Flame CEO & Chairman Ken King was on Sportsline Radio with Bob McGown this afternoon. Here in a nutshell is what Ken King said:

    - Flames had three offers on Iginla.

    - They agreed on the players to be involved on deals with Boston & Pittsburgh.

    - They went to Jarome and asked him where do you want to go? He chose Pittsburgh.

    Bob McGown was confused. He couldn't understand why they went back to Jarome when they already had a list of 4 teams he would accept a trade to.

    Ken King fell short of saying that they did not have Jarome sign a waiver for a trade to one of the four teams. Later, McGowan asked him, slyly, Will you do another similar deal without having a player sign a waiver? He responded- no.

    McGown then asked again, why then did they go back to Jarome for his OK? King followed with more soft-shoeing: Jarome Iginla is a model player, he served the community well, and deserves all consideration.

    The Flames screwed up again. First O'Reilly, and now Iginla. They had no signed waiver from Iginla and Iginla selfishly used it to his benefit without regard for the Flames.

    Later in the show, with Glen Healy, it came out that Sidney Crosby texted or call Jarome late in the afternoon. Jarome had been informed that he was being traded to Boston, because Feaster felt the Bruin deal was the better one.

    After the phone call Jarome wanted to go to Pittsburgh and accept their offer of Tom, Dick and Harry who will probably never play a game for the Flames or in the NHL.

    Healy also mentioned the fact that Jarome could never be told what to do by any of the coaching staff during his career with the Flames, because he was tight with mamagement aand ownership. If a Coach wanted Jarome to play a certain way or a different role to benefit the team, Jarome would speak to the ownership and continue as he was doing.

    I didn't want him in Boston before all of this. I am glad we didn't get him.

     

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to cowboys9's comment:

    Thanks JW.. I was not aware that Iginla had a full NMC... which then makes this charade trade list of 3 or 4 teams even worse.. Bruins never had a chance.. why even bother with the list if you made up your mind to go to Pittsburgh..just tell Fat Feaster to work out a deal with Pittsburgh. I thought Iginla was above that, apparently not... I think a lot of chatter went on behind the scenes here which we will never find out... and PC got left holding the bag.



    And Feaster could have come back to Iginla and said, "Pittsburgh won't offer enough.  There is no deal there.  It's Boston for a playoff run or golfing.  You have a NMC.  The choice is yours."

    Everyone saying that Boston had no chance is suggesting that Iginla has the right or desire to force a trade.  That just wasn't the case. 

     

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