PC Presser

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    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     



    He has the right to reject any movement.

     
    In reply to that Iginla could have said " Pitt or stay here" knowing Calgary wanted assets back before he goes to free agency.

    He held all the cards.

     

     



    Not on Wednesday he didnt.  If this trade deadline minusone hour, then sure.  But there was still time to show Iginla that he was exploiting an albeit massive oversight on the part of the team that he has given his heart and soul to for 16 years and not exhibiting any kind of good faith.

     

    This ended before it should have ended.

     



    Drew, that's the surest sign that Iginla held all the cards. Clearly, Feaster had time left to go back to PC and ask im to up his offer if he was interested in acquiring Iginla. Feaster had another week to negotiate with teams if he chose to.  Why didn't this happen? It's because Iginla decided on Pitt and Feaster was left with the choice of keeping him or accepting what Pitt had to offer. He decided to deal him. End of story.

     



    He had time left to convince Iginla that Iginla was being unreasonable

    [/QUOTE]


    do you honestly think that option would escape most adult humans

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     



    He has the right to reject any movement.

     
    In reply to that Iginla could have said " Pitt or stay here" knowing Calgary wanted assets back before he goes to free agency.

    He held all the cards.

     

     



    Not on Wednesday he didnt.  If this trade deadline minusone hour, then sure.  But there was still time to show Iginla that he was exploiting an albeit massive oversight on the part of the team that he has given his heart and soul to for 16 years and not exhibiting any kind of good faith.

     

    This ended before it should have ended.

     



    Drew, that's the surest sign that Iginla held all the cards. Clearly, Feaster had time left to go back to PC and ask im to up his offer if he was interested in acquiring Iginla. Feaster had another week to negotiate with teams if he chose to.  Why didn't this happen? It's because Iginla decided on Pitt and Feaster was left with the choice of keeping him or accepting what Pitt had to offer. He decided to deal him. End of story.

     

     



    He had time left to convince Iginla that Iginla was being unreasonable. 

     

     




    I don't think Iginla was that unreasonable though Drew. He had a NMC. It was his right to veto any move. I'm not pleased he did it but I don't blame him.

     



    He agreed to a list of teams that he would go to.  Then changed his mind and forced his GM to accept a trade for a weaker package.

    He went back on his word

    He made Calgary, a city that loved him for 16 years, take a weaker offer

    He made a fool out of his GM

    The degree to which he was being unreasonable is irrelevant.  Feaster could have and should have presented a case to Iginla that made Iginla feel like Iginla was not acting in good faith.

    Even if Iginla wasnt being that unreasonable in your opinion (and I can honestly see where you are coming from.  A lot had changed since he made that list, and he could have said, "Im sorry for doing this...I honestly do feel bad about it...I made that list in haste and I just completely regret putting Boston on it")...Still, Feaster should have attempted to sell the arguement that going to Bos was the right thing to do because Iginla had made that list.  He could have (as Nas points out) bluffed and said Bos or nowhere.

    Honestly Dez, Im not particularly upset that we didnt get Iginla.  Im just honestly shocked at Feaster's lack of business sense / negotiation competency.  That, and only that, is what I cant let go of.

    How the heck did this guy even become a GM?  It seems like he's never taken a negotiation class in his life!!!

    PS: Im a Bentley grad.

    [/QUOTE]


    This whole "bluff" idea should not be considered lightly.

    It needs to be mercilessly shot down with great force! 

    You start out by blaming Iginla.  Then you move on to Feaster.   Iginla easily may have apologized exactly as you have it laid out above.  What on earth makes you so sure he didn't.  I don't think there is a printed word anywhere suggesting one possibility or the other.

    Finally, if you were an alumni of Ozark Polytech, would you feel compelled to let us know?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    Iginla did not hold all the cards.  Calgary is being honorable and not playing the card they have.  I wouldnt be so honarble.  If I owned the Flames, today on Flames.com would be an acknowledgement from ownership that not having Iginla agree in writing to a list of teams was a mistake.  An apology from ownership for misplaying their hand.  And then a complete and utter thrashing of Iginla for going back on his word and strongarming the organization to take a weaker offer.  I would then promise that we will do everything possible to win a cup. 

    I would dig up all the dirt I could.  It would be full blown war.  And Calgary ownership would win.  Iginla isnt there to defend himself anymore, but Cal ownership is there to ruin his legacy.

    I would dig up every piece of dirt I could on him.  Maybe he grabbed a woman's butt one time in a bar.  I would promise to not retire his number. 

    ANd (as an added bonus) you may be able to win some fans back.  By making Iginla public enemy #1.

    I would have let things go sour before I agreed to this.




    I don't want to pick a fight Drew, but the above is just so nuts.  Picking holes in this piece isn't Business School, it's Junior High.

     
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    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

     

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    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to stevegm's comment:

     

     

     



    You're leaving a lot out nas.  It is "Iginla's place" if that's what he negotiated, and he obviously did that in the last little while.

     

    If Feaster plays hardball, as you say would've been so easy, he could have done that, and kept some credibility within the industry by sending Jerome to the Bruins.

    Don't you think that would be a much more appealing option to Feaster than what actually went down?

    There's also the very stark reality, that if Jerome doesn't go where he wants to go....he merely sticks around for another 3 weeks, and the Flames get zero.   Nothing.

    Calgary has already stated they're through with Jerome Iginla, and that kind of news never endears an athlete to his lifelong employer. 

     



    Iginla's contract called for him to have approval on any movement.  It did not call for him to review all offers made to the Flames for him.

     

    Given the opportunity to chase the Cup with Boston or surely be golfing again, Iginla would have chosen Boston.

     



    Correct.  He didnt have to present Pitt as on option. He should have presented it as Boston or no trade.  And if Iginla asked if Pitt was an option, Feaster should have said no (assuming he liked the Bos offer better).  He should have said no even if Pitt actually was an option.  Its called a bluff.

     

    Call it negotiating strategy/savvy/competency.  Feaster displayed a lack of it.

     




     

    No it's not.  We have no idea whether Iginla negotiated that nugget, when he opened up the no movement thing.  It's also of no consequence.

    What we do have is enough information to make an informed judgement.  We know Iginla doesn't have to go anywhere.  He can ultimately choose his destination.  Unless those locales are legalized, everything is just on the honour system.

    We know Crosby was in on things, so Iginla knew the Penguins were in the hunt.  Feaster can't bluff that.  It's a certainty Iginla was told he was traded to Boston.  That's when he started flexing his muscles.  Obviously, Iginla then said he decided he wasn't interested in going to Boston, and since he already knew Pittsburgh wanted him, he merely stated Pittsburgh or nothing.  Since the flames knew "legally", Jerome had them by the short hairs, they went in to spin mode.

     




    Fine.  Even if he couldnt bluff that Pitt wasnt an option he could have bluffed that he wasnt going to accomodate Iginla out of spite.  And that Iginlas options were stay (where he would be demoted to third line duty) or leave. 

    He could bluff that he would tarnish Iginla's legacy and thrash him in the media for disregarding "the honor system" (which is a powerful thing in the NHL universe).  Cal did have some chips.  Sure they were chips that didnt want to play, but they had chips and could have bluffed that they would use them if need be.

    "I dont want to have to show everyone and all of your fans how you are going back on your word and forcing us to take a weaker offer.  Please dont make me play this card."

    [/QUOTE]


    MORE

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    Comes down to this: when a good businessman knows that the other side has him by the short hairs, he doesnt accept it.

    He tries to salvage the best of a bad situation until he has to accept it.

    This is why the lockout dragged on for so long.  This is why union negotiations often come down to the 11th hour.  This is why political decisions usually dont get finalized until the 11th hour.

    Feaster gave up too early.



    He does if he's forced to.  The lockout only dragged on til one side became more uncomfortable than the other.  It's illogical to assume the same thing didn't happen here.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    steve, how about deleting some of the thread in the responses ;).  I can't even follow this or who said what.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    You're going down a slippery road from a discussion perspective. If you're not open to changing your mind, what are you doing here? Just re-reading your own posts? I've offered up many reasons for my position, and the only thing you can do is post around them and sling mud.

    Please explain what you think would have been different if Boston had included 2 more decent prospects, or whatever it is you're suggesting. Please explain why that would have made Feaster more secretive. Please explain how that would've motivated Iginla or how that would have kept the Crosby stuff in the dark.

    As far as why the best offer wasn't made, I don't know where to start. It was the best offer. It was accepted by the Flames. Calgary didn't turn it down, Iginla did. Unless the Flames could provide some under the table incentive for Iginla to accept Boston(which is highly illegal) in the event PC was prepared to include Seguin, what difference would that make to Iginla. Do you really think he gives a shiitt about the Calgary Flames today?

    And Bartowski has proven good enough to have a look at the NHL level. That's a far cry from an unsigned US college hockey player. A Boston first rounder is a better pick than a Penguin first rounder too.

    Unlike you, I'm very open to changing my mind.

    Steve

     

    Not sure why you feel like I'm slinging mud ?

    I'll ask you again, If you're not understanding my point

    Do you feel that the offer had no impact on the decision, and that Iginla was going to Pitt regardless of what Boston put on the table ?




    I'm virtually positive the offer had no impact. 

    There's just too much evidence to the contrary.

    As far as what you're "not sure of", I've sincerely tried to interact reasonably with you.  I've detailed why I have the opinions I do.  You've come back with nothing.  Nothing except accusations of being naive and ridiculous, along with the admission of being  pig headed. I was pretty charitable in only calling that mud slinging.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    You're going down a slippery road from a discussion perspective. If you're not open to changing your mind, what are you doing here? Just re-reading your own posts? I've offered up many reasons for my position, and the only thing you can do is post around them and sling mud.

    Please explain what you think would have been different if Boston had included 2 more decent prospects, or whatever it is you're suggesting. Please explain why that would have made Feaster more secretive. Please explain how that would've motivated Iginla or how that would have kept the Crosby stuff in the dark.

    As far as why the best offer wasn't made, I don't know where to start. It was the best offer. It was accepted by the Flames. Calgary didn't turn it down, Iginla did. Unless the Flames could provide some under the table incentive for Iginla to accept Boston(which is highly illegal) in the event PC was prepared to include Seguin, what difference would that make to Iginla. Do you really think he gives a shiitt about the Calgary Flames today?

    And Bartowski has proven good enough to have a look at the NHL level. That's a far cry from an unsigned US college hockey player. A Boston first rounder is a better pick than a Penguin first rounder too.

    Unlike you, I'm very open to changing my mind.

    Steve

     

    Not sure why you feel like I'm slinging mud ?

    I'll ask you again, If you're not understanding my point

    Do you feel that the offer had no impact on the decision, and that Iginla was going to Pitt regardless of what Boston put on the table ?

     




     

    I'm virtually positive the offer had no impact. 

    There's just too much evidence to the contrary.

    As far as what you're "not sure of", I've sincerely tried to interact reasonably with you.  I've detailed why I have the opinions I do.  You've come back with nothing.  Nothing except accusations of being naive and ridiculous, along with the admission of being  pig headed. I was pretty charitable in only calling that mud slinging.



    Apologies if you took it that way.

    I don't change my views, and that's pig headed, you don't and it's ???

    Still not responding directly to my question though.

    I'm asking if an upgraded offer would of had an impact, because I believe it would have. It seems that you are referring to the offer that was on the table.

    I'm still not sure how anyone can be positive about something that never took place. Possible that it would have had an impact is reasonable to assume. Positive that it would of had no impact, isn't reasonable because there's no basis for that opinion.

    Look - I just strongly disagree

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    I asked for a show of hands if you're unaware how NMC's work. Someone definitely should've raised their hand.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Steve, I know what I said a couple of pages ago.  However, I was at work and short on time.  I meant to imply that slamming Iginla to the media was a possibility and should have been expressed as one.  Not that it should have happened.

    I once had an employee who was insubordinate and difficult.   I (at the time) was a supervisor.  Trying to get her to change her demeanor, I mentioned, "I could go to the director with this however, I am not going to."  That generally wins employees over.  And it worked.  They could have said something like: "You gave us your list.  To change your mind right now is unfair.  We could blast you; however, because we love you, we arent going to."  This is one card that Calgary should have played.

    I apologize for misrepresenting my point in haste.  My point can be summarized as follows:

    Calgary MGMNT should have exhausted all attempts to get Iginla to accept the trade to the Bruins if they felt that the Bruins offer was considerably better of the two offers.  I (still) do not feel that this was done.  I disagree with your point that after 8 hours it was easy to tell what direction things were heading.  After 50 hours of negotating , it didnt appear that there would be a hockey season this year.  Ive personally been involved in many negotiations that have gotten testy , dragged out, but were ultimately resolved fairly.  8+ hours is nothing.  Sometimes it takes an impending deadline for one side to move. At the very least, Calgargy management should have forced Iginla to sleep on it.  Try again tomorrow when everyone is fresh.  It had been a very exhausting day. 

    It seems to me that Calgary management wanted it over and done with.  Thats bad business.  Instead of saying , we're done, you're off to Pitt.  You win.  They should have said, we're done for today, lets continue tomorrow.  You could tell from Feaster's press conference that he trully was exhausted.

    Regarding your point that Feaster may have been hung out to dry himself: touche and great point.  In my line of work, I find that people who are difficult usually have somebody above them applying unfair pressure.

    Regarding my Bentley comment: it appears that rubbed you the wrong way.  I was not trying to gloat.  I was actually poking fun at myself because honestly I love scrutanizing  managerial decisions. 

    I love hockey.  But not nearly as much as I love econcomic theroy and strategic management.  Im just a dork.  Cant even ice skate.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

     

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    You're going down a slippery road from a discussion perspective. If you're not open to changing your mind, what are you doing here? Just re-reading your own posts? I've offered up many reasons for my position, and the only thing you can do is post around them and sling mud.

    Please explain what you think would have been different if Boston had included 2 more decent prospects, or whatever it is you're suggesting. Please explain why that would have made Feaster more secretive. Please explain how that would've motivated Iginla or how that would have kept the Crosby stuff in the dark.

    As far as why the best offer wasn't made, I don't know where to start. It was the best offer. It was accepted by the Flames. Calgary didn't turn it down, Iginla did. Unless the Flames could provide some under the table incentive for Iginla to accept Boston(which is highly illegal) in the event PC was prepared to include Seguin, what difference would that make to Iginla. Do you really think he gives a shiitt about the Calgary Flames today?

    And Bartowski has proven good enough to have a look at the NHL level. That's a far cry from an unsigned US college hockey player. A Boston first rounder is a better pick than a Penguin first rounder too.

    Unlike you, I'm very open to changing my mind.

    Steve

     

    Not sure why you feel like I'm slinging mud ?

    I'll ask you again, If you're not understanding my point

    Do you feel that the offer had no impact on the decision, and that Iginla was going to Pitt regardless of what Boston put on the table ?

     




     

    I'm virtually positive the offer had no impact. 

    There's just too much evidence to the contrary.

    As far as what you're "not sure of", I've sincerely tried to interact reasonably with you.  I've detailed why I have the opinions I do.  You've come back with nothing.  Nothing except accusations of being naive and ridiculous, along with the admission of being  pig headed. I was pretty charitable in only calling that mud slinging.

     



    Apologies if you took it that way.

     

    I don't change my views, and that's pig headed, you don't and it's ???

    Still not responding directly to my question though.

    I'm asking if an upgraded offer would of had an impact, because I believe it would have. It seems that you are referring to the offer that was on the table.

    I'm still not sure how anyone can be positive about something that never took place. Possible that it would have had an impact is reasonable to assume. Positive that it would of had no impact, isn't reasonable because there's no basis for that opinion.

    Look - I just strongly disagree

     

     




    No problem....but I didn't take it that way....you wrote it that way.  There's no interpretation factor in play there.

    The pig headed statemnt is fair because you've already proclaimed nothing is gonna change your mind.  I've never said that,....and if I did, you'd be perfectly correct in calling me pig headed too.

    Let me be clear.  I don't think more players...better players would have made a difference, and I already stated why.  I believe it to be very obvious there were other motivating scenarios in play, and they didn't come from the flames front office.  The most glaring being Calgary's decision to accept an inferior one.  You may disagree with that, but you're on an island all alone, with virtually the whole industry seeing it differently.  Boston had the best deal.  I also said that if the flames "hadn't agreed to the deal", your theory would make a lot of sense.

    Since it was a done deal, it's illogical to see it any other way.  Iginla didn't care who Boston was offerring....he, not the flames torpedoed the whole thing.  It's totally illogical to assume Feaster told PC it was a done deal, then turn around and do one that was worse, and the whole world considers it worse.  All that's left for debate is the degree of worse.  If Feaster pulled out a rabbit and actually got something from Pittsburgh, yeah, your scenario may be true.  But no one is going to allow themselves to look that stupid.

    Unless they have no choice.

    Sometimes reality just isn't titilating enough around here.  Feaster thought he had the green light to deal with a specified number of teams.  Obviously there was confusion somewhere in the flames camp. This deal did not go down because there was a perceived absence of quality parts.  It didn't happen...... because Jerome Iginla wouldn't go to Boston.

    No other reason.  You can bet your bottom he was pressured to do so, but in the end Iginla refused to because either A, he changed his mind, or B he disputed the fact that he originally ok'ed any potential deal with Boston.

    No smoking gun, no grassy knoll, and no beware the Ides of March. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    Steve, I know what I said a couple of pages ago.  However, I was at work and short on time.  I meant to imply that slamming Iginla to the media was a possibility and should have been expressed as one.  Not that it should have happened.

    I once had an employee who was insubordinate and difficult.   I (at the time) was a supervisor.  Trying to get her to change her demeanor, I mentioned, "I could go to the director with this however, I am not going to."  That generally wins employees over.  And it worked.  They could have said something like: "You gave us your list.  To change your mind right now is unfair.  We could blast you; however, because we love you, we arent going to."  This is one card that Calgary should have played.

    I apologize for misrepresenting my point in haste.  My point can be summarized as follows:

    Calgary MGMNT should have exhausted all attempts to get Iginla to accept the trade to the Bruins if they felt that the Bruins offer was considerably better of the two offers.  I (still) do not feel that this was done.  I disagree with your point that after 8 hours it was easy to tell what direction things were heading.  After 50 hours of negotating , it didnt appear that there would be a hockey season this year.  Ive personally been involved in many negotiations that have gotten testy , dragged out, but were ultimately resolved fairly.  8+ hours is nothing.  Sometimes it takes an impending deadline for one side to move. At the very least, Calgargy management should have forced Iginla to sleep on it.  Try again tomorrow when everyone is fresh.  It had been a very exhausting day. 

    It seems to me that Calgary management wanted it over and done with.  Thats bad business.  Instead of saying , we're done, you're off to Pitt.  You win.  They should have said, we're done for today, lets continue tomorrow.  You could tell from Feaster's press conference that he trully was exhausted.

    Regarding your point that Feaster may have been hung out to dry himself: touche and great point.  In my line of work, I find that people who are difficult usually have somebody above them applying unfair pressure.

    Regarding my Bentley comment: it appears that rubbed you the wrong way.  I was not trying to gloat.  I was actually poking fun at myself because honestly I love scrutanizing  managerial decisions. 

    I love hockey.  But not nearly as much as I love econcomic theroy and strategic management.  Im just a dork.  Cant even ice skate.




    Actually Drewski, we have a lot of the same passions.  You're absolutely right, the Bentley comment bugged me more than anything.

    I agree with many of your comments and in some cases agree that waiting it out serves a purpose.  I think in this case it shouts the fact there was division within the flame hierarchy and that only diminishes Feasters responsibility, which appearred to be the area where you wanted to place virtually all of the blame.

    If you enjoy strategic management, you know that disagreements between  2 corporate exectives aren't held to the same standards as two junior managers, or an entry level supervisor and their subordinate.  There's more urgency to smooth the water when one is situated on the top floor.  Less consideration for fiscal reality, or who or what is right.  Just get it done.  This seems to be a textbook example.

    Anyway, always enjoy reading your thoughts.

    cheers.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -



    That's my point Johnny, "they"(Flames) didn't walk away.  Iginla did.  The flames approved the deal.  Neither of those are assumptions.  You've steadfastly chosen to ignore those fundamental truths.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -

     



    That's my point Johnny, "they"(Flames) didn't walk away.  Iginla did.  The flames approved the deal.  Neither of those are assumptions.  You've steadfastly chosen to ignore those fundamental truths.

     




    That's been everybody's point Steve. His stance has been, "truth be damned! I've got an opinion".

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -

     



    That's my point Johnny, "they"(Flames) didn't walk away.  Iginla did.  The flames approved the deal.  Neither of those are assumptions.  You've steadfastly chosen to ignore those fundamental truths.

     

     




    Steve

    I said walk away from the enhanced offer that never happened, which would have put them in a much more difficult position. And the Pitt offer never gets considered. I'm not ignoring anything.

    Ok Johnny ?

    I wanted Cammalleri and Clowe anyway

    Thanks for the debate, but we're miles away from agreement, and there are only a few on here that feel that a stronger offer would have handcuffed the Flames and took Pitt off the table, I'm one of them and I'm good with that.  You say it wouldn't make a difference, but there is only your opinion and no fact to stand on when considering how that would have played out, because it never happened, and that fact can't be debated.

    I'll just agree to disagree

    This horse died yesterday

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -



    What part do you not get about the fact that PC wasn't even given a chance to increase the offer? He thought the deal was DONE with the offer he offered. What's so hard to comprehend about that? Iginla is the one who squashed the deal. And it was Feaster's fault he allowed Jarome to have so much monoply on the move. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -

     



    What part do you not get about the fact that PC wasn't even given a chance to increase the offer? He thought the deal was DONE with the offer he offered. What's so hard to comprehend about that? Iginla is the one who squashed the deal. And it was Feaster's fault he allowed Jarome to have so much monoply on the move. 

     




    He's responded to that before by saying that the Bruins should have made a stronger offer to begin with - one they couldn't refuse.

     

    ... however, back to the press conference PC said that negotiations on the deal started 2 weeks ago.  What were they talking about for 2 weeks?  Obviously they were hashing out the deal.  Obviously Calgary agreed.

     

    And putting together 'an offer they couldn't refuse' would be just foolish, why give away an asset - any asset - for nothing.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    @DarrenDreger

     

    "Some believe Iginla's choice to play with the Penguins was made long before the decision and trade was made final last night."

    Iginla wanted to go to Pittsburgh and I can't blame him.


    I'm not really going to put too much stock in what the media says on Twitter about Iginla.



    Because you want to nit-pick-it to win a debate. Iginla picked Pittsburgh, you wanna go ahead and keep disecting a moot point...go right ahead.

     

     




    Man, you just can't freakin' help yourself.  You just can't stick to a topic without attacking someone.  You're so sad.

    You post something.  I disagree with the post.  You come at me.  E-freakin'-nough already.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -

     



    What part do you not get about the fact that PC wasn't even given a chance to increase the offer? He thought the deal was DONE with the offer he offered. What's so hard to comprehend about that? Iginla is the one who squashed the deal. And it was Feaster's fault he allowed Jarome to have so much monoply on the move. 

     



    That's been explained to him at least a dozen times in this thread nite.  It's not gonna sink in.  Just let him go...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    One last hypotetical and forgive me if it's been mentioned already but what if Iginla told Feaster weeks ago that it was Pitt or Calgary and that's it? Feaster then says, "well shucks Jarome, we'll never get any sort of return for you if Pitt knows it's there or nowhere. Can you at least let us give the appearance that you'd be willing to go elsewhere so that we can try for a better return? I'm not asking you to do anything dastardly. Just don't go public that it's Pitt or else." This is what I think happened. At least that makes more sense to me than the idea that a pro hockey club is being run by an actual moron.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Oooooohhh, sorry dez.  The correct answer was "actual moron...actual moron...yeah".

    In all the back and forth about hypothetical offers and whatnot, it occurs to me that I have no idea why any NHL general manager would accept the deal they got for Iginla with a week to go before the deadline.  Fleeceder was not obligated to send Iginla anywhere that day, and the only pressure I see from Shero would be that he might go make another move that would mean the pick was no longer available.  But I have to think Shero would also rather have Iginla than whatever his plan B might have been (Jagr?).

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    One last hypotetical and forgive me if it's been mentioned already but what if Iginla told Feaster weeks ago that it was Pitt or Calgary and that's it? Feaster then says, "well shucks Jarome, we'll never get any sort of return for you if Pitt knows it's there or nowhere. Can you at least let us give the appearance that you'd be willing to go elsewhere so that we can try for a better return? I'm not asking you to do anything dastardly. Just don't go public that it's Pitt or else." This is what I think happened. At least that makes more sense to me than the idea that a pro hockey club is being run by an actual moron.




    I won't say that you are right, but I will say that your theory is as good as any. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Oooooohhh, sorry dez.  The correct answer was "actual moron...actual moron...yeah".

    In all the back and forth about hypothetical offers and whatnot, it occurs to me that I have no idea why any NHL general manager would accept the deal they got for Iginla with a week to go before the deadline. 




    Exactly.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     

    Steve

    Well since the more substantial offer I refer to never happened, it's specualtion at best on everybodys part ...mine and yours also. So all thats left are assumptions, and there are no definitives that you speak of. I'd have a hard time believing that Calgary could have publicly turned down such an enhanced offer, But it's very understandable how they walked way from the one PC left on the table. In fact they did just that. They should have receieved an offer they couldn't refuse imo- they didn't, and I don't get that at all. So lets leave it at that. You believe your assumptions and I'll believe mine, But Iginla is in Pitt and we just resigned Matt Bartkowski.

    Let's agree that that ain't good, and move on -

     



    What part do you not get about the fact that PC wasn't even given a chance to increase the offer? He thought the deal was DONE with the offer he offered. What's so hard to comprehend about that? Iginla is the one who squashed the deal. And it was Feaster's fault he allowed Jarome to have so much monoply on the move. 

     



    Nite

    Holy Sh1t ...I never said "increase" the offer- never

    For the last time - I'm sayin that If you want Jarome Iginla and you're going up against Pitt which is where everyone should have expected him to prefer, especially the GM who gets paid the big bucks to deal with this kind of tricky high level negotiations ...you don't go in with Matt Bartkowski and a prospect because that is just too easy to have another offer in the same ballpark that would give the Flames and Iginla a publicly reasonable excuse to turn down. That's exactly what happened. Was Bostons offer better - probably. I actually think that it just sucked less than the Pitt offer, and that provided the hole that the weasels ran thru. They never should have been given that opportunity- IMO. I said he should of went in initally with an offer they couldn't publicly walk away from without humiliation  - he didn't and got torched. Everything beyond that is just an opinion and without any factual basis, because it's hypothetical - and that goes both ways.

     
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